Pricing of Rental Points

[JWimberley]

How long has everyone been renting points at the standard $10 rate? I was thinking about that this morning and it occured to me that I have not thought about raising my rental rates in over 4 years, in spite of the fact that my annual dues have gone up every year.

Those of us at Boardwalk are now paying over $4.00 per point in annual dues. That has effectively cut my rental income by 10% over the last few years. This is not a post about the increasing cost of dues (although I may start one of those threads in another forum...), this is more about getting everyone to think about the prices that we charge and why we charge what we do.

I understand that in some cases we have to discount our rates because it is close to the end of the use year or we are out of season but I think that we should consider trying to at least keep pace with the rising costs of dues.

Ok, I yield my remaining soap box time to anyone else that wants to use it!

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions!

Joshua

 

[drusba]

$10 give or take a couple has been the going rate set by the market for several years. Just as you may ask whether it needs to be raised because off cost increases, others may wonder how the price can be sustained in today's down economy -- which are the kinds of opposite thinking that often help to determine market price. What people cannot do, because it is potentially illegal, is get together, like on a message board, and actually agree as a group as to what the price should be. (Also note that BoardWalk dues were actually over $4 a point several years ago and then they decreased before increasing again.)

 

[CarolMN]

To me, renting points is totally about supply and demand, and has very little to do (if anything) with the cost of dues.

The "supply side" (or the "competition" for renting points) of the equation includes Disney. As long as Disney is offering a lot of room discounts, there will not be a lot of demand for points. IMHO, the average rental price/point will not increase until demand for Disney on site accomodations increases enough for Disney to raise prices/decrease the discounting.

Of course, rental price is completely negotiable between renter and rentee. Some members do charge (and get) more than $10/point.

 

[ToyStory Fan]

I agree with Joshua (JWimberley), my BIL and I both have discussed this at length...for me not so much of a concern, mainly because I don't rent out my points as often as he does. In any case though, I think there is some discretion that we need to use in determining what is fair (even in a down economy)...true someone can always find a better deal or AAA or some other discount, but at the end of the day if by renting points the renter is saving 40-50% off a REGULAR priced equivalent stay (renting BCV vs cash pay at BCV) then it could be and SHOULD be an everyone wins situation...even at $12-14 per point the renter is still getting a great deal. I usually don't follow the $10 rule anyway, and if someone I am renting to calls me out on the carpet claiming they found a better deal then I say God Bless, enjoy, take the better deal.

If it was so easy for the renter to find a better deal it would be just as easy for them to do the research in the first place and realize the the DVC owner is the one who has taken on all the risks of ownership (laid out a lot of cash too) and is entitled to charge a reasonable price. If the renter questions the reasonableness of the price then that's their issue to deal with caveat emptor.

Okay the soapbox is up for grabs again.

 

[Maria395712]

I agree. I think the rental should go up. That's why I posted $11 a point for rentals in Feb. 04, 14 poins @ 11 dollars at bc, bw, wl, that's $154 a night even with discounts you don't get that & allstars with tax and no discount is like $134. I 'll post at $11 dollars a point and wait or I'll use them myself. Maybe everyone will follow. Yes if you are getting close to end of use year maybe $9 is good

 

[Mojomanny]

I have found that if people are comparing apples to apples (VWL to VWL) of Disney versus renting, the renters have consistenly saved 33 to 50%.

We cannot compare budget accomodations to DVC accomodations since that is comparing The Swan to a motel 6.

I do feel there is opportunity for upwards rental pricing, what is keeping prices down are the people with points to rent. We are all afraid of not being able to rent our points so we toe the line with everyone else.

If it were a true matter of supply and demand, people with points to rent would be left with unrented points.

Nobody asked, just my opinion.

 

[nuthut]

Have been renting points for a minimum of $12.50 each for years. My last eBay sale netted me $16.54 a point. $910 for a 55 point stay. Renting at $10 each is giving away your vacation dollar.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Nuthut,

When you rent on ebay, do you reserve a stay and rent it that way? What is the most common time frame, 5-days, 7-days. How well does ebay work over the rent/trade board. My guess would be with ebay, you only get interested parties and it saves a lot of calls to MS to check availability for inquirers that change their mind.

Thanks....Johnnie

 

[Maria395712]

nuthut, could you email me and tell me all abouy ebay I'm not a computer whiz .let me know all the details and are there any fees , do they pay with paypal
maria


ngroganb@comcast.net

 

[JWimberley]

Hey Nuthut,

I've seen some of your listings on eBay. I too have gotten upwards of $15-$17 per point in an auction setting. That is kind of what prompted my post here. If there are people willing to pay more for our points why do we insist on keeping the price artifically low?

I'm not saying we should all get together and try to set a market price, but we do owe it to ourselves and other members to try to maintain some rate integrity and look for opportunities to increase our investment return.

As for using eBay, there are fees involved but they really aren't that bad when you look at the increased rate you are getting. Some of my buyers from eBay have used paypal to send their money and some still use Money Orders and Cashiers checks. I like eBay but you have to be a little more careful because the people out there don't really understand what they are getting into. Explaining to someone that is not used to DVC why there is no daily maid service and why our vacations go from Sun-Fri can be a little challenging.

I like the thoughts that I have seen so far, even the ones that don't completely agree with mine. Thanks for sharing!

Joshua

 

[Peterd]

Nuthut and JW I agree with the prices you charge.

But, what does everyone think about people that reserve prime weeks like Christmas/Easter/President's week with the only reason to sell, sorry scalp, sorry rent, with no intention of staying there. They get 60 to 70 percent of what Disney would charge, they have kind of every right to do so, but is it right? Does the selling of resvs. of prime weeks constitute scalping and is it against what we signed in our documents. Just curious. Sorry just bored tonight.

 

[Richyams]

opportunities to increase our investment return.

Sorry, but DVC was never meant to be an investment.

People who rent their points as a business in this manner are doing us all a diserveice. by strictly renting weekdays, you are hurting the occupancy balance. by reserving sought after time periods, like xmas, or early december, you are hurting other memebrs. Members who respect the contracts they signed and do not use their points as a business.

If I am ever in a position to rent points, I will rent them for my dues.

I wish they could do something to put you people out of business without taking away someone's legitimate need to rent out their points once in a while.

I think $6-8 per point is plenty, it covers your dues plus some.

edit: when you leave out the space between 'who' and 'respect' the bad language software censors the world's oldest professioanal....

 

[Richyams]

I just came up with a brilliant idea!!!

I could draft a letter explaing how points work, what they cost and how they are used along with a link to the point calculator on this site and a link to the rent/trade board. I could send this to each and every bidder on the ebay auctions.

Wow, let me print this out so I will remember to start this afternoon.

 

[dianeschlicht]

You go Rich! I think points should only be rented in the off chance that you can't use them in a particular use year. DVC is not an investment, but a vacation opportunity. I always wonder if all those rentals are the people who don't take care of OUR investment in a vacation and don't take care of our properties. All right, I'll put up the fire screen now so I don't get burned in the flames.

 

[vbfamily]

I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if this if off topic.

I know most people rent points to stay at WDW but if the current asking price of $10-$13 per pt goes much higher then renting points for Vero Beach is a dumb idea.

I know specials won't be around forever but you can get 30% off with Disney Club, Birnbaum, etc. and you get housekeeping.

It doesn't bother me when someone rents for $5 or $6-there are different reasons everyone rents-need cash, have to use points by a certain date, to family, etc. I think whatever a person wants to charge is fair.

If I rented my points I'd be happy as long as my dues were covered.

I think the current discounts that are being offered do play a part in how much people are going to pay. In some cases, it's just better for them to book directly through Disney utilizing one of the discounts.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

As a previous renter, I rented from someone that was going to loose their points, I think I paid 8.50 per point. Now as an owner, I really don't care what someone rents THEIR points for. But what bothers me is the people that do this as a business, take up space and rent and owners can't get in. Personally I think Disney should make an addmendment to our contracts, stating if you are renting points for profit, then you loose your points!! I know they can't. But if I want to go Easter week and there is no room, and see several listings on e-bay I wouldn't be too happy!

 

[Mojomanny]

I never bought my DVC points with a plan to rent them.

I bought my points based on a 4 year cycle.

Yr 1: WDW Vacation, 7 days,

Yr 3: Disney Cruise, 7 days using Yr 2's banked points and Yr 4's borrowed points.

The economics of using the points for the cruise versus paying cash currently do not make sense. By going through Costco, I am able to pay $4300 for a cruise that would have used 578 points.

I wonder how many here would willingly, knowingly and voluntarily pay 1/3 more for their airfare or meals or gas or mortgage? Why should I pay 1/3 more for my cruise just because I have points?

Unlike the other posters, I am not willing to rent out my points for my dues. It simply does not make sense. The cost of my points is not merely my annual dues. In addition to dues, there is 1/40th of my purchase cost, plus associated finance charges if I had financed. Looking at it this way, I would say my cost is at least $2 above the annual dues.

I also realize the fantastic bargain that renters are getting (33-50% off Disney Direct prices) when I rent my points to them at $10.

I know there are some people have gone in the "business" of renting points. I cannot condemn nor salute their activity. I just want to ensure others realize that there are renters who are renting purely because of the way DVC interacts with other entities.

As an aside, someone made reference that the people who solely rent Sun-Fri hurt the rest of us. I fail to see how this is. They are increasing utilization on lower use days. They are helping us by using days that are less used, as opposed to using weekend days which a DVC member is more likely to use. Their tactic is spreading out the demand on the properties which I think is a positive. I could go into a lengthy discussion about economics, supply and demand, but will spare all of us the pain.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[InstImpres]

We bought almost 5 years ago. We got more points than we could ever need at the time figuring as we got older and had a larger family we would have more time, need bigger rooms and thus need more points. Our plan was to rent a week or 2 each year until than to help with our DVC mortgage payments.

Family laughed at us for carrying such a big expense Than they all decided to vacation with us We did the add-on dance before our first contract was even final. Now we are looking at another add on.

We take a large family trip every 2 or 3 years sometimes - twice in one year (different sides of the family). Renting allows us to always stay at DVC no matter when or how often we go. Some years I rent more, some less.

As for cost, i have gotten anywhere from $10-$13 per point on the boards and $11-$16 per point on ebay. I generally spend about 4 hours with each renter. Between e-mails and phone calls (to renter and MS). this time is more than most people as I am happy to give trip planning recommendations and answer all park questions they have. I feel my time has some value moniteraly.

As was said previously, everyone does what works for them. Bottom line, I paid for my points and pay my dues - it should be up to me if I stay or lend it to a friend. The rentals allow me to enjoy Disney more often. (BTW - I have heard of people with thousands of points who do this as a sole income, I am not one of them, just trying to pay my mortgage.)

 

[DGuiltinan]

I am not a DVC owner, I am a renter. I personally think that the cost / benefits are not there for ownership, but that is my humble opinion. I think that if you are getting $13 plus per point on Ebay, that is great, and is certainly your right. I just hope that you are advertising the product honestly, and that you don't place any shill bids to drum up the price as so many Ebayers do.

That aside, I think that you are wasting your time trying to encourage other DVC owners to raise their prices here on this board. You cannot override the principals of supply and demand, at least not very easily. There are far too many owners on this board trying to rent points. If there was a very small group of DVC owners, you may be successful in an attempt to initiate a policy of "price fixing".

As far as I am concerned, $10 is the very highest I would go. I think $9 per point is fair, depending upon availability versus demand. I have rented 3 times now over the past 2 years, once at $8 and twice at $9. This amounted to $64 per night at OKW and $117 per night at BCV.

I think the OKW was a steal, although I helped out a DVC member whose points were about to expire. For BCV, I wouldn't pay much more than $117 per night. Why should I, when I can go on Priceline and get the Swan / Dolphin for $90 (including taxes and fees), or get a room at the Sheraton for less than $40, including taxes??

Hotel rooms are cheaper now than they were 10 years ago.

But, if you can find some not so well informed people on Ebay to pay you more than market price for your points, go for it. I don't blame you in the least. After all, doesn't WDW do the same thing?? Charging ridiculous prices for their resorts, because they know that so many people will blindly pay whatever they ask??

 

[Richyams]

As an aside, someone made reference that the people who solely rent Sun-Fri hurt the rest of us. I fail to see how this is. They are increasing utilization on lower use days. They are helping us by using days that are less used, as opposed to using weekend days which a DVC member is more likely to use. Their tactic is spreading out the demand on the properties which I think is a positive. I could go into a lengthy discussion about economics, supply and demand, but will spare all of us the pain.

Allow me to explain

As a matter of fact, the lowest occupancy nights for DVC are the weekends. The problem is so bad that DVC sent out a survey years back addressing the ow weekend occupancy. They asked about lowering the difference between weekends and weeknights.

The weekends have the lowest occupancy and rentting strictly weekday points hurts us even more.