Pregnant High School Senior Denied Attendance At Graduation Ceremony

[bcwife76]

Your priest is the kind of person I consider truly good.

The religious or moral judgmental nonsense that some people (like those leaders you mentioned) engage in only serves to make them feel superior while driving others away. It accomplishes no good in the world. Spiritual leadership should never rely on shame or fear. Guidance should come from a place of loving acceptance.

Here in Canada we're struggling with the concept of forgiveness right now, because Karla Homolka - a convicted kidnapper/torturer/rapist/murderer of multiple teen girls who got an unreasonably light sentence due to her lawyer breaking the law (as in he moved evidence so the cops couldn't find it) - is now a married woman with three kids, attending a Seventh Day Adventist private school. Certain school staff, no doubt thrilled to have a chance to practice "forgiveness" with an honest-to-goodness serial killer, decided to allow her to supervise kindergartners on field trips and volunteer in her children's classroom. Without informing parents. Parents who objected were even asked to leave the school! When media got wind of it, they descended on the school, and we all got treated to the spectacle of a member of school staff screaming Bible quotes at them about forgiveness. Ick.

It wasn't until last night that someone in the school finally realized that it looks REALLY bad to have people with criminal records working with their kids. The leader of our more left-leaning party is now getting flack for suggesting that perhaps she's paid her debt to society and we should forgive her. Honestly, I can't quite get there. She literally got away with murder, and now she gets to parade around, smirking in interviews, and getting everything she wants out - children, house, husband, a University degree on the taxpayer's dime...

If she'd dedicated her life to charitable works, maybe I could be forgiving. But, as far as I can tell, she's done nothing to earn it.

It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about that MONSTER of a woman being around anyone elses' children. Let's not forget that one of the victims of that nasty, hateful, disgusting woman was her own sister!

Yeah, no forgiving or forgetting in this situation sorrynotsorry. I really think she should still be locked up for the rest of her life.

 

[tzolkin]

And are you ok for your kids school to choose what hairstyle they have?

Their schools do not have any hairstyle policies. I know some define what hair cuts are acceptable by gender. I don't support that.

If they had a policy about "unnatural" hair colors, I don't think I would argue it. But since our schools do not, I am fine with allowing them to dye their hair if they choose. (Only my oldest does and she is now in college, so it's a non-issue.)

 

[mummabear]

I don't know about other schools, but uniforms were only a "problem" to my parents because we wouldn't wear them outside of school. In the case of most of my classmates, they had a LOT of clothes. Maybe their uniforms were 1/8 of their wardrobe. Very minor expense compared to the cost of extracurricular activities anyway- dance, swim, team sports. I lived in a mid sized town and everyone I knew did extracurriculars, so I wouldn't think a basic uniform would be a burden. A annoyance, and an added expense, but not actively a burden.

I am wondering how public schools enforce or support it though. Subsidies? Scholarships?

Of course kids need other clothes, US students have all of summer break, here is NZ thy have 3 2 week breaks plus Christmas/summer for about 6 weeks, they need enough clothes to get trough that non school time.
Uniforms are just an add on and don't actually really reduce the amount of everyday clothes kids have.

She gave them that authority when she enrolled.

And I personally don't think that is a schools place.
They are welcome to have a code of conduct for school grounds and school events.
If she was caught having sex at school breaking the rule that is a different matter.
But what students do at home isn't the schools business.

 

[luvsJack]

Fair. That's completely true. But my point is that generally at 17, the kid knows basic biology. And she knows that premarital sex is against the student code. Not only was she counting on not getting caught, she likely knew that no birth control is one hundred percent. Even religious, sheltered kids know that. I mean, one of the reasons that the Catholic Church is relatively quiet these days about birth control is not due to the fact they think it's moral to use. It's due to the fact that many married women still want to have sex but don't want more kids and the priests have learned to not to touch on that topic. Chances are that the girl's parents use birth control and she knows about it. My mother is the most prudish woman I've met, she never talked about it, but still I knew they used condoms.


I feel your pain about the uniforms. I don't get the people who says it saves money. Or that it stops bullying. Kids in schools with uniforms bully their classmates over everything from how old the garment is, to the fit of the pants or the brand of the polo shirt. Kids can definitely tell the difference between Ralph Lauren and Walmart.

The blazer thing is ridiculous. I was really glad that they didn't require blazers. The plaid was bad enough.

Not all sheltered kids know that. I know a young lady that grew up in a very sheltered household. She is 23 or 24. The things she doesn't know would shock you. And her ideas about birth control were shocking to say the least. You would have to know what they have been taught to know for sure.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

The graduation ceremony was yesterday. I haven't heard nor read any updates, so I'm guessing the school stuck to its guns and didn't let her march.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Not all sheltered kids know that. I know a young lady that grew up in a very sheltered household. She is 23 or 24. The things she doesn't know would shock you. And her ideas about birth control were shocking to say the least. You would have to know what they have been taught to know for sure.

I know there are exceptions to the rule, but you really think a college bound, honors student had no idea that sex=baby?

 

[Wendy31]

I know there are exceptions to the rule, but you really think a college bound, honors student had no idea that sex=baby?

My parents never said a word to me about sex. The only thing I ever "officially" heard in school & church was to save yourself for marriage & not to put yourself in a position where things could go too far. We also once went on a field trip to a Josh McDowell "Why Wait?" show.

But I knew about sex & knew sex could lead to a baby & STDs. I knew about birth control & condoms. Everyone did.

Even if a kid is sheltered, other kids talk & joke & gossip - even in a Christian school.

 

[Westcoastwild]

My parents never said a word to me about sex. The only thing I ever "officially" heard in school & church was to save yourself for marriage & not to put yourself in a position where things could go too far. We also once went on a field trip to a Josh McDowell "Why Wait?" show.

But I knew about sex & knew sex could lead to a baby & STDs. I knew about birth control & condoms. Everyone did.

Even if a kid is sheltered, other kids talk & joke & gossip - even in a Christian school.

Yep. Not to mention, most of them probably watch shows or movies that their parents and school would not approve of.

I definitely knew very, very sheltered kids who were homeschooled and really had odd ideas about sex. But even those kids knew sex could result in stds and pregnancy. They also knew what a condom was. I mean they may have also believed you could get an std from a toilet seat, and that using protection was a sin, but they weren't still thinking that babies were delivered by storks. There is absolutely no indication that the kid didn't know the consequences of sex.

 

[luvsJack]

Yep. Not to mention, most of them probably watch shows or movies that their parents and school would not approve of.

I definitely knew very, very sheltered kids who were homeschooled and really had odd ideas about sex. But even those kids knew sex could result in stds and pregnancy. They also knew what a condom was. I mean they may have also believed you could get an std from a toilet seat, and that using protection was a sin, but they weren't still thinking that babies were delivered by storks. There is absolutely no indication that the kid didn't know the consequences of sex.

You would have to know the girl but the one I know honestly knew nothing. She never watched a movie or read a book that mom and dad didn't approve. She attended a small private school for one year after they moved here but previous to that she was home schooled in a small church group in Texas.

She wasn't taught sex is a sin. She wasnt taught birth control is a sin or about stds. She literally knew nothing. I would guess she knew babies came from sex but had no clue how to stop it from happening. She had no knowledge of how to handle herself in situations with boys. Was not allowed to do anything with friends. All her time was spent with family. And suddenly she turned 18 and was let out into the world. And from 18 to now 24, she has made horrible choices because she doesn't have a clue.

The girl in this thread may have known all of it but there are children in this world that are honestly that sheltered.

 

[Wendy31]

Yep. Not to mention, most of them probably watch shows or movies that their parents and school would not approve of.

I definitely knew very, very sheltered kids who were homeschooled and really had odd ideas about sex. But even those kids knew sex could result in stds and pregnancy. They also knew what a condom was. I mean they may have also believed you could get an std from a toilet seat, and that using protection was a sin, but they weren't still thinking that babies were delivered by storks. There is absolutely no indication that the kid didn't know the consequences of sex.

Yes!! You wouldn't believe how many times my sister & I watched "Dirty Dancing" one summer while my parents were at work! LOL! I also read romance novels.

My kids are homeschooled but aren't sheltered - we belong to a Co-Op, they're on various sports teams, involved in various other groups, they watch movies & TV & read different books, plus we talk as well. I would even say only a small subset of homeschooled kids don't know about sex (after a certain age).

But I get what you're saying. Even the kids coming from the strictest & most sheltered homes have some idea of sex - even if they are led to believe things like protection are wrong or even if they come to have odd (or inaccurate) ideas about sex.

 

[Westcoastwild]

You would have to know the girl but the one I know honestly knew nothing. She never watched a movie or read a book that mom and dad didn't approve. She attended a small private school for one year after they moved here but previous to that she was home schooled in a small church group in Texas.

She wasn't taught sex is a sin. She wasnt taught birth control is a sin or about stds. She literally knew nothing. I would guess she knew babies came from sex but had no clue how to stop it from happening. She had no knowledge of how to handle herself in situations with boys. Was not allowed to do anything with friends. All her time was spent with family. And suddenly she turned 18 and was let out into the world. And from 18 to now 24, she has made horrible choices because she doesn't have a clue.

The girl in this thread may have known all of it but there are children in this world that are honestly that sheltered.

Yeah, but those kids aren't usually in the position to get pregnant under 18. I know they exist. But there's no chance that this girl was one of them. She went to a school that specifically condemned premarital sex. You can bet that came up in the curriculum. She wasn't home schooled. She participated in extracurricular activities. She apparently had a nonschool boyfriend that either her parents knew about or she was sneaking around to see. And since her parents are apparently supportive of her, I don't think it's the latter.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yes!! You wouldn't believe how many times my sister & I watched "Dirty Dancing" one summer while my parents were at work! LOL! I also read romance novels.

My kids are homeschooled but aren't sheltered - we belong to a Co-Op, they're on various sports teams, involved in various other groups, they watch movies & TV & read different books, plus we talk as well. I would even say only a small subset of homeschooled kids don't know about sex (after a certain age).

But I get what you're saying. Even the kids coming from the strictest & most sheltered homes have some idea of sex - even if they are led to believe things like protection are wrong or even if they come to have odd (or inaccurate) ideas about sex.

Lol. Yes. The innocent days of "dirty dancing" and romance novels. You could buy those for 25 cents at goodwill.

And now it's like augh, how do I get the computer to stop with the obscene pop ups. No one wants to see that!

 

[luvsJack]

Yeah, but those kids aren't usually in the position to get pregnant under 18. I know they exist. But there's no chance that this girl was one of them. She went to a school that specifically condemned premarital sex. You can bet that came up in the curriculum. She wasn't home schooled. She participated in extracurricular activities. She apparently had a nonschool boyfriend that either her parents knew about or she was sneaking around to see. And since her parents are apparently supportive of her, I don't think it's the latter.

Yeah, like I said, the girl in this situation knew what she needed to know. I still believe the school is wrong and sending the wrong message. But it is what it is.

As for the not likely to get pregnant before 18. I wouldn't be so sure. They still have the same hormones. The girl I know told me about episodes on family camping trips with her cousin where neither of them really knew what was happening. I don't think they had sex but they wanted to. It would have been horrible for her. I feel like her parents were neglectful of her as she is still so far behind her peers. I am just saying that it can and does happen and this very girl could have ended up in this situation during the one year in private school. I know her because she and my son dated for a short amount of time. She was a sweet girl but her having no knowledge of so much in the world drove him nuts. (About everything like history and science not just sex).

To just assume any girl this age would have the knowledge needed to stop pregnancy is not realistic, sadly.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yeah, like I said, the girl in this situation knew what she needed to know. I still believe the school is wrong and sending the wrong message. But it is what it is.

As for the not likely to get pregnant before 18. I wouldn't be so sure. They still have the same hormones. The girl I know told me about episodes on family camping trips with her cousin where neither of them really knew what was happening. I don't think they had sex but they wanted to. It would have been horrible for her. I feel like her parents were neglectful of her as she is still so far behind her peers. I am just saying that it can and does happen and this very girl could have ended up in this situation during the one year in private school. I know her because she and my son dated for a short amount of time. She was a sweet girl but her having no knowledge of so much in the world drove him nuts. (About everything like history and science not just sex).

To just assume any girl this age would have the knowledge needed to stop pregnancy is not realistic, sadly.

Right. I think we're in agreement there. I'm not saying all girls- I'm saying the girl in this specific story absolutely knew that stuff.

The girl in your story had a lot more going on then just lack of sex Ed. That's pretty much child abuse.

 

[Colleen27]

Fair. That's completely true. But my point is that generally at 17, the kid knows basic biology. And she knows that premarital sex is against the student code. Not only was she counting on not getting caught, she likely knew that no birth control is one hundred percent. Even religious, sheltered kids know that. I mean, one of the reasons that the Catholic Church is relatively quiet these days about birth control is not due to the fact they think it's moral to use. It's due to the fact that many married women still want to have sex but don't want more kids and the priests have learned to not to touch on that topic. Chances are that the girl's parents use birth control and she knows about it. My mother is the most prudish woman I've met, she never talked about it, but still I knew they used condoms.


I feel your pain about the uniforms. I don't get the people who says it saves money. Or that it stops bullying. Kids in schools with uniforms bully their classmates over everything from how old the garment is, to the fit of the pants or the brand of the polo shirt. Kids can definitely tell the difference between Ralph Lauren and Walmart.

The blazer thing is ridiculous. I was really glad that they didn't require blazers. The plaid was bad enough.

I suppose understanding of birth control depends on how sheltered she is overall. I encounter plenty of kids with some pretty dangerous misconceptions (and not all of them private schoolers). The biggies are storing condoms in places where heat is apt to degrade their integrity and the antibiotic/birth control interaction. Since most of the teens I know get their BC from the teen clinic, rather than from the family doctor, it often happens that no one warns them about the latter because they don't bring up the BC to the family doctor or pharmacist when they're ill.

I never did buy the argument that uniforms save money. My kids still wear regular clothes every day. I don't understand the fundamental logic of claiming that two sets of clothes for weekdays is cheaper than one.

And I'm kind of curious how this one-brand thing is going to work out, especially for girls. It seems like it could make things difficult and raise other issues of decency/modesty. After all, my curvy DD and her willowy best friend both wear a size 5 but they can't wear each other's clothes - a shirt that is cute on her B-up bestie is practically obscene on D-cup DD, and the pantie lines if she tries to wear BF's pants are ridiculous. Mandating a brand seems like it is going to make getting a good fit difficult for girls with the "wrong" body type for the way the approved pants are cut.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I suppose understanding of birth control depends on how sheltered she is overall. I encounter plenty of kids with some pretty dangerous misconceptions (and not all of them private schoolers). The biggies are storing condoms in places where heat is apt to degrade their integrity and the antibiotic/birth control interaction. Since most of the teens I know get their BC from the teen clinic, rather than from the family doctor, it often happens that no one warns them about the latter because they don't bring up the BC to the family doctor or pharmacist when they're ill.

I never did buy the argument that uniforms save money. My kids still wear regular clothes every day. I don't understand the fundamental logic of claiming that two sets of clothes for weekdays is cheaper than one.

And I'm kind of curious how this one-brand thing is going to work out, especially for girls. It seems like it could make things difficult and raise other issues of decency/modesty. After all, my curvy DD and her willowy best friend both wear a size 5 but they can't wear each other's clothes - a shirt that is cute on her B-up bestie is practically obscene on D-cup DD, and the pantie lines if she tries to wear BF's pants are ridiculous. Mandating a brand seems like it is going to make getting a good fit difficult for girls with the "wrong" body type for the way the approved pants are cut.

In my experience any brand they mandate is going to be relatively shapeless and skirts will be longer than they have to be to work on petite girls. It'll look good on a few kids and adequate on the rest.

Panty lines and cleavage aren't generally an issue because the regulation shirts and pants tend to be heavier fabric and boxier cut than the kids would pick out on their own. Girls clothing is ridiculous thin and immodestly cut. Every time I buy pants, I face this. All I want is a long enough inseam, regular waist and usable pockets. men do not have these problems.

The biggest pain is height. Grade school uniforms assume kids are short. I looked ridiculous in the regulation pants so ended up wearing the hideous dress a lot.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Your priest is the kind of person I consider truly good.

The religious or moral judgmental nonsense that some people (like those leaders you mentioned) engage in only serves to make them feel superior while driving others away. It accomplishes no good in the world. Spiritual leadership should never rely on shame or fear. Guidance should come from a place of loving acceptance.

Here in Canada we're struggling with the concept of forgiveness right now, because Karla Homolka - a convicted kidnapper/torturer/rapist/murderer of multiple teen girls who got an unreasonably light sentence due to her lawyer breaking the law (as in he moved evidence so the cops couldn't find it) - is now a married woman with three kids, attending a Seventh Day Adventist private school. Certain school staff, no doubt thrilled to have a chance to practice "forgiveness" with an honest-to-goodness serial killer, decided to allow her to supervise kindergartners on field trips and volunteer in her children's classroom. Without informing parents. Parents who objected were even asked to leave the school! When media got wind of it, they descended on the school, and we all got treated to the spectacle of a member of school staff screaming Bible quotes at them about forgiveness. Ick.

It wasn't until last night that someone in the school finally realized that it looks REALLY bad to have people with criminal records working with their kids. The leader of our more left-leaning party is now getting flack for suggesting that perhaps she's paid her debt to society and we should forgive her. Honestly, I can't quite get there. She literally got away with murder, and now she gets to parade around, smirking in interviews, and getting everything she wants out - children, house, husband, a University degree on the taxpayer's dime...

If she'd dedicated her life to charitable works, maybe I could be forgiving. But, as far as I can tell, she's done nothing to earn it.

I am not religious in the least bit so that falls flat on me now.

Why in the heck are child predators allowed to be hired or volunteer in school? If that is the case, you need to change the LAW. It is known that predators will flock to places where they are not under scrutiny to work with kids.

Called common sense. Has nothing to do with right, left, etc. EVERYONE is to blame. Why is it allowed?

 

[Magpie]

I am not religious in the least bit so that falls flat on me now.

Why in the heck are child predators allowed to be hired or volunteer in school? If that is the case, you need to change the LAW. It is known that predators will flock to places where they are not under scrutiny to work with kids.

Called common sense. Has nothing to do with right, left, etc. EVERYONE is to blame. Why is it allowed?

It's a private school, and she's a parent. They can make their own rules.

I'm not particularly fond of the "I'm so much more forgiving than than thou art" aspect of some religions. I particularly dislike the tale of the prodigal son. Sure, dad's glad to have him back, but why does that have to mean the responsible brother gets shunted to the side? It's as if the more sinful you are, the more pride certain congregations take in bringing you into the fold. Like each sinner has some kind of eternal point value tacked on. Boringly nice people aren't worth much.

Anyway, I honestly don't even know why this particular child predator is allowed to marry, have children and raise them herself, much less volunteer in their classroom. It's appalling.

 

[DisneyOma]

I'm not particularly fond of the "I'm so much more forgiving than than thou art" aspect of some religions. I particularly dislike the tale of the prodigal son. Sure, dad's glad to have him back, but why does that have to mean the responsible brother gets shunted to the side? It's as if the more sinful you are, the more pride certain congregations take in bringing you into the fold. Like each sinner has some kind of eternal point value tacked on. Boringly nice people aren't worth much.

Anyway, I honestly don't even know why this particular child predator is allowed to marry, have children and raise them herself, much less volunteer in their classroom. It's appalling.

I know! It's the 'do all kinds of horrible things to other human beings, but repent on your deathbed and God will accept you' mentality. I'm surprised she's allowed to keep her kids. She shouldn't have been - wonder if they know what Mommy did?

 

[luvsJack]

I am all about forgiveness and believe there is a lot of power in asking for forgiveness, but I am not sure why common sense doesn't play in there for some too. Our church has probably a couple of hundred people that work with kids but every one has a background check. I assumed that any private school or church school would have to do the same. They should have to follow at least that law that every other school or child care center has to follow.