Pregnant High School Senior Denied Attendance At Graduation Ceremony

[Annadesu]

I went to Catholic school, and also signed a code of conduct. This is not an uncommon thing. They have religious rules, and if you break them, you're booted. It's a risk you take when going to a school like that. And if you sign the paper, legally, that's the end of that 90% of the time. I feel for her, I do. But... she signed her rights away.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Well - I work in an industry where a lot of people come from different backgrounds. While it would be highly unusual to see an Indian woman wearing a sari to a job interview, a nose piercing wouldn't be all that unusual.

Also - there's a teaching assistant at my kid's school who has a nose ring. She's working on her masters degree and this is a part time gig and possibly something to give her hours that she can point to when she looks for a full-time job.

I am a little surprised she wasn't asked to remove it during work. The school districts I worked for would ask for TA's and student teachers to cover up tattoos and remove piercings other than single holes in the ears.

But I wouldn't consider a nose piercing all that exotic honestly. I've only worked for two companies that would be against the rules. One was a school district, one was a grocery chain that had a ridiculous dress code that was enforced very differently store to store. The store I worked at actually got in trouble with corporate for not forcing people to cover up tattoos and remove nose rings.

 

[NZMUM]

I am a Canadian who lives in NZ



Actually it's not, the courts ruled that their code was unlawful and they were fined.
Furthermore as St Johns receives MOE funding they are required to meet MOE guidelines.
There is nt a lot of choice re:if you don't like the rules don't go to the school, you either go to your zoned state/public school or you go to a paid private school (who all have uniforms) given the amount of schools MOE has listed as at or over capacity most are no longer taking out of zone students.
Your choice becomes suck up rules you don't like or home school.
I may be against uniforms but like our school otherwise.


Actually it does them a disservice to tell them it matters at 14, it doesn't.
It matters getting a job sure, and people will subconsciously judge people for anything g including being overweight-but we aren't putting that in guidelines are we?

They were fined because their rules weren't clear and he interpreted them in another way, which followed what they had written. If they had specifically said hair to a certain length and not long enough to be tied up then they would have been fine. Schools here tightened up their wording after this case. Yes they get MOE funding, they follow the curriculum set by MOE. That doesn't stop them from setting rules how they wish (within reason). The strictest school for hair length in our city is a boy's state school. They are very very tough, tougher than my son's Catholic boy's school.
Maybe where you live there's not a lot of options but that's not the case everywhere. My son has now chosen to go to a state school (not because of rules or appearance). He is going to an out of zone school. Our schools are over capacity too, but he changed in year 12, so there was space. They have ballots for the popular out of zone schools here.

 

[mummabear]

They were fined because their rules weren't clear and he interpreted them in another way, which followed what they had written. If they had specifically said hair to a certain length and not long enough to be tied up then they would have been fine. Schools here tightened up their wording after this case. Yes they get MOE funding, they follow the curriculum set by MOE. That doesn't stop them from setting rules how they wish (within reason). The strictest school for hair length in our city is a boy's state school. They are very very tough, tougher than my son's Catholic boy's school.
Maybe where you live there's not a lot of options but that's not the case everywhere. My son has now chosen to go to a state school (not because of rules or appearance). He is going to an out of zone school. Our schools are over capacity too, but he changed in year 12, so there was space. They have ballots for the popular out of zone schools here.

The schools in our area no longer hold ballots as there is no spaces to be filled, 3 years ago they did.
Lucas (Luka?) didn't interpret the rule differently, he had been at that school with no issues for over 3 years, a new principal came in and they had a new interpretation of the rule.
As you said rules have to be reasonable, this rule was found by he courts to be unreasonable, it was sexist, had no basis behind it such as health or safety as well as being ambiguous.

 

[mummabear]

Right but now you're specifying age. When do you tell the kids that it matters? 15? 16, 18? 22?

And this is where it comes back to, funny thing it's a parents job to parent their children not a schools.

 

[Westcoastwild]

And this is where it comes back to, funny thing it's a parents job to parent their children not a schools.

Well, in theory, it is. Trouble is, not all parents do. If all parents parented appropriately, schools would need neither dress codes nor behavioral codes.

 

[mummabear]

Well, in theory, it is. Trouble is, not all parents do. If all parents parented appropriately, schools would need neither dress codes nor behavioral codes.

Their behavioural codes should only apply to at school situations.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Their behavioural codes should only apply to at school situations.

I'd normally agree but I think there are some extreme situations that could apply. If a kid was on probation for sexual assault or drug dealing that happened off property, would you want them in school with your child? A private school would expel the kid because it violates the behavioral contract. I don't think a public school could.

 

[NZMUM]

Their behavioural codes should only apply to at school situations.

If they are wearing school uniform outside of school hours the beahvioural codes should apply. The school is judged on the behaviour of it's students, and up & coming parents are less likely to send their kids there based on the bad behaviour - fair or not, that's the way it is. Of course often the only way they find out things if they are reported to the school. But they should have guidelines in place for when that happens. Expulsion or "standing down" would be extreme punishments for most situations.
Maybe you don't judge them, but I did when my kids were nearing high school age. Our local high school (we've moved since then) was very lax on the appearance of it's students. That is a warning sign to start, their behaviour was another. When my daughter started high school there were 4 bus loads of students going to out of town schools. You can't tell me that decision was not based on the behaviour of students out of school hours in uniform.
Also if there is a news story about the behaviour of kids (parties out of control, drink driving, assault etc) their school is often mentioned, which of course tarnishes the schools reputation.

 

[Westcoastwild]

If they are wearing school uniform outside of school hours the beahvioural codes should apply. The school is judged on the behaviour of it's students, and up & coming parents are less likely to send their kids there based on the bad behaviour - fair or not, that's the way it is. Of course often the only way they find out things if they are reported to the school. But they should have guidelines in place for when that happens. Expulsion or "standing down" would be extreme punishments for most situations.
Maybe you don't judge them, but I did when my kids were nearing high school age. Our local high school (we've moved since then) was very lax on the appearance of it's students. That is a warning sign to start, their behaviour was another. When my daughter started high school there were 4 bus loads of students going to out of town schools. You can't tell me that decision was not based on the behaviour of students out of school hours in uniform.
Also if there is a news story about the behaviour of kids (parties out of control, drink driving, assault etc) their school is often mentioned, which of course tarnishes the schools reputation.

Right. Someone sees a kid in a uniform or letterman jacket or school sweatshirt misbehaving out of school, that definitely reflects on the school.

And news coverage is another good point. In this situation particularly the punishment really was less about the student and more about how other kids and parents and prospective parents and students would see the school. A religious school that appears to condone underage sex is not one that is going to be popular with the kind of people who would pay the tuition. Most people who would see teen pregnancy as no big deal aren't going to send their kids there to begin with. There are several people here who are specifically objecting to the fact the kid had to sign a conduct agreement. But in fact that's a plus in the eyes of most parents who do send their kids to those schools.

This is even a big deal with colleges. Universities don't drop the hammer on greek houses or underage drinking for academic reasons. They do it because such behavior gives them a reputation their alumni and future students- especially parents of those students- will view poorly and that they don't want.

 

[mummabear]

I'd normally agree but I think there are some extreme situations that could apply. If a kid was on probation for sexual assault or drug dealing that happened off property, would you want them in school with your child? A private school would expel the kid because it violates the behavioral contract. I don't think a public school could.

I can see possibly extreme circumstances, however if they have served their time they need to be interested somewhere, everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

If they are wearing school uniform outside of school hours the beahvioural codes should apply. The school is judged on the behaviour of it's students, and up & coming parents are less likely to send their kids there based on the bad behaviour - fair or not, that's the way it is. Of course often the only way they find out things if they are reported to the school. But they should have guidelines in place for when that happens. Expulsion or "standing down" would be extreme punishments for most situations.
Maybe you don't judge them, but I did when my kids were nearing high school age. Our local high school (we've moved since then) was very lax on the appearance of it's students. That is a warning sign to start, their behaviour was another. When my daughter started high school there were 4 bus loads of students going to out of town schools. You can't tell me that decision was not based on the behaviour of students out of school hours in uniform.
Also if there is a news story about the behaviour of kids (parties out of control, drink driving, assault etc) their school is often mentioned, which of course tarnishes the schools reputation.

And this is part of the reason I don't like uniforms.
Kids don't represent their schools outside of school events, they represent themselves and their families.

 

[DisneyOma]

And this is where it comes back to, funny thing it's a parents job to parent their children not a schools.

I've always wished for this to happen, but sadly it doesn't. The public school system is being pushed to fill in the gaps left by sub-par parenting. We teach health, child development, cooking, and now they are pushing for 'life skills' classes for all students. What are the parents responsible for?

Their behavioral codes should only apply to at school situations.

Schools are responsible for students from the moment they step foot on campus in the morning until they arrive at a destination after school. then there are school activities that fall under the school watch, and as someone else mentioned, illegal activity that makes the student a high-risk concern and has to be dealt with. So schools are responsible for students a good deal of the time they are not in their homes.

 

[Cinderella94]

And this is where it comes back to, funny thing it's a parents job to parent their children not a schools.

Yup. This. Where is personal responsibility to parent your children? It kills me.

 

[tzolkin]

On what do you base this? Are you a teacher? Your post honestly confuses me.

I believe the statement is based on human nature. You honestly don't think people (even teachers) make assumptions/judgments based on appearances?

If you say so. It isn't about materialistic- I don't mean that teachers notice if the kid is stylish or whatever. I just mean presentation is definitely part of a teacher's or employer's perception of the kid or employee. And teachers are people with biases like anyone else- there are certainly people out there who consider tats or piercings or unusual haircuts to be bad. But I've gone from being someone who did not see the point of having a dress code to being a professional who would take the same stance with my kids as my parents did.

This is absolutely true.

My husband is a striking example of how you are treated/what others perceive based on appearance. He was the only child of a poor single mom, long-hair, stoner-looking teen. Absolutely nothing was ever expected of him in school-- he was constantly told "college isn't for everyone", he was placed in classes for kids with learning disabilities, guidance counselor told him he should just drop out since he would never get a job that required a diploma, the list goes on.

He did wind up going to college (had to take pre-requisite classes at community college first because he wasn't offered the proper classes in high school) and has had a successful nursing career. But he maintained the same appearance for at least the first decade of our marriage. (The mindset was that people shouldn't judge based on what you look like.) He was profiled by police, people were rude to him in public (always fun buying cars or furniture when the sales people don't want to assist you or are flat out disrespectful), even at work if he was outside of his "area" people who didn't know him assumed he was a custodian, talked down to him, etc, etc.

He one day decided to get a very conservative haircut and buy a new wardrobe. The change in perception has been almost unbelievably drastic. I knew that people judged based on appearances, but I honestly never realized the full scope of it until now. Within the last five years (since changing his appearance) he has received many job offers and been promoted several times (he's recognized as an expert in his field and oversees multiple hospitals), he is a well respected member of the community, and even his own family's perception of him has changed.

Do I think it's fair or right to treat people differently based on their appearance? Of course not. (I know DH didn't magically change into a different person who was somehow more deserving of respect when he cut his hair and put on new clothing.) I don't have to agree with it, but I do have to recognize that's what most people do.

 

[luvsJack]

I can see possibly extreme circumstances, however if they have served their time they need to be interested somewhere, everyone deserves a 2nd chance.


And this is part of the reason I don't like uniforms.
Kids don't represent their schools outside of school events, they represent themselves and their families.

Doesn't matter if they wear a uniform or not, if the people in public figure out what school they go to, the whole school is judged on their behavior. If you think they don't represent their school, their community and their family, you are kidding yourself.

Besides, high school kids go to a lot of events where they are expected to represent their high school outside of the school day. DD was responsible for getting herself to several events for high school choir. It was not considered a "school event" and so no transportation was offered. But once at the event, she very much represented her high school. The choir director would ask them again and again to dress appropriately, if not they would have to start wearing their khakis and a school or choir shirt. For her four years, he was able to continue to allow them to dress in regular clothes for these events. I have been told that he had to discontinue that freedom this year as a few girls showed up dressed very inappropriately. THAT is why the schools continue to parent them. A 14 year old should not be able to attend a state wide event for high school choirs dressed inappropriately.

 

[Magpie]

I believe the statement is based on human nature. You honestly don't think people (even teachers) make assumptions/judgments based on appearances?


This is absolutely true.

My husband is a striking example of how you are treated/what others perceive based on appearance. He was the only child of a poor single mom, long-hair, stoner-looking teen. Absolutely nothing was ever expected of him in school-- he was constantly told "college isn't for everyone", he was placed in classes for kids with learning disabilities, guidance counselor told him he should just drop out since he would never get a job that required a diploma, the list goes on.

He did wind up going to college (had to take pre-requisite classes at community college first because he wasn't offered the proper classes in high school) and has had a successful nursing career. But he maintained the same appearance for at least the first decade of our marriage. (The mindset was that people shouldn't judge based on what you look like.) He was profiled by police, people were rude to him in public (always fun buying cars or furniture when the sales people don't want to assist you or are flat out disrespectful), even at work if he was outside of his "area" people who didn't know him assumed he was a custodian, talked down to him, etc, etc.

He one day decided to get a very conservative haircut and buy a new wardrobe. The change in perception has been almost unbelievably drastic. I knew that people judged based on appearances, but I honestly never realized the full scope of it until now. Within the last five years (since changing his appearance) he has received many job offers and been promoted several times (he's recognized as an expert in his field and oversees multiple hospitals), he is a well respected member of the community, and even his own family's perception of him has changed.

Do I think it's fair or right to treat people differently based on their appearance? Of course not. (I know DH didn't magically change into a different person who was somehow more deserving of respect when he cut his hair and put on new clothing.) I don't have to agree with it, but I do have to recognize that's what most people do.

I'm reminded of something I observed when my daughter was in Grade 1.

If I sent her to school in her comfy sweats, the other girls didn't seem to notice her when she walked onto the playground.

If I made sure she picked out "cute" clothing (still things she liked to wear, but perhaps a nice pair of embroidered jeans and a pretty shirt, instead of the sweats), and maybe some jewelry or a pretty braid in her hair, people would greet her when she walked up to them. She got positive attention, right away.

My daughter was born with a large, noticeable birthmark on her face, and the surgeries she had left scars. Once I figured out the impact her appearance could have on her social life, I took particular care in what clothes I bought for her, and how she was encouraged to present herself. I didn't try to control her choices, but I did try to help her learn what looked appealing and attractive on her, so that she could choose for herself how she wanted the world to see her.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I believe the statement is based on human nature. You honestly don't think people (even teachers) make assumptions/judgments based on appearances?


This is absolutely true.

My husband is a striking example of how you are treated/what others perceive based on appearance. He was the only child of a poor single mom, long-hair, stoner-looking teen. Absolutely nothing was ever expected of him in school-- he was constantly told "college isn't for everyone", he was placed in classes for kids with learning disabilities, guidance counselor told him he should just drop out since he would never get a job that required a diploma, the list goes on.

He did wind up going to college (had to take pre-requisite classes at community college first because he wasn't offered the proper classes in high school) and has had a successful nursing career. But he maintained the same appearance for at least the first decade of our marriage. (The mindset was that people shouldn't judge based on what you look like.) He was profiled by police, people were rude to him in public (always fun buying cars or furniture when the sales people don't want to assist you or are flat out disrespectful), even at work if he was outside of his "area" people who didn't know him assumed he was a custodian, talked down to him, etc, etc.

He one day decided to get a very conservative haircut and buy a new wardrobe. The change in perception has been almost unbelievably drastic. I knew that people judged based on appearances, but I honestly never realized the full scope of it until now. Within the last five years (since changing his appearance) he has received many job offers and been promoted several times (he's recognized as an expert in his field and oversees multiple hospitals), he is a well respected member of the community, and even his own family's perception of him has changed.

Do I think it's fair or right to treat people differently based on their appearance? Of course not. (I know DH didn't magically change into a different person who was somehow more deserving of respect when he cut his hair and put on new clothing.) I don't have to agree with it, but I do have to recognize that's what most people do.

Right?

It's awful how he was treated especially at school. But I've seen that too. People react very differently to a different appearance.

I empathize with the whole salesman thing. When I got braces, I didn't think anything of it...but apparently they make me look about a decade younger. Salesmen do not take me seriously and I went from never being id'd in bars to always being id'd in bars. It's like yes, look, I can pay for a couch. All I want is that cheap Chardonnay. Just take my money! I started wearing professional clothes shopping which, geez, that just feels wrong on a weekend.

I'm reminded of something I observed when my daughter was in Grade 1.

If I sent her to school in her comfy sweats, the other girls didn't seem to notice her when she walked onto the playground.

If I made sure she picked out "cute" clothing (still things she liked to wear, but perhaps a nice pair of embroidered jeans and a pretty shirt, instead of the sweats), and maybe some jewelry or a pretty braid in her hair, people would greet her when she walked up to them. She got positive attention, right away.

My daughter was born with a large, noticeable birthmark on her face, and the surgeries she had left scars. Once I figured out the impact her appearance could have on her social life, I took particular care in what clothes I bought for her, and how she was encouraged to present herself. I didn't try to control her choices, but I did try to help her learn what looked appealing and attractive on her, so that she could choose for herself how she wanted the world to see her.

That's a good point. Kudos for doing that. My mother stubbornly believed that kids will accept other kids no matter how they dressed. I got into college and actually learned to enjoy shopping and dressing up, and I noticed that I felt much different on the days I took extra effort. And it'll sound really weird, but dressing up gives me that extra boost of confidence that results in an A in a test. It's not like it'll give me knowledge I don't have, but usually it meant the difference between an A minus and A.

 

[tzolkin]

I'm reminded of something I observed when my daughter was in Grade 1.

If I sent her to school in her comfy sweats, the other girls didn't seem to notice her when she walked onto the playground.

If I made sure she picked out "cute" clothing (still things she liked to wear, but perhaps a nice pair of embroidered jeans and a pretty shirt, instead of the sweats), and maybe some jewelry or a pretty braid in her hair, people would greet her when she walked up to them. She got positive attention, right away.

My daughter was born with a large, noticeable birthmark on her face, and the surgeries she had left scars. Once I figured out the impact her appearance could have on her social life, I took particular care in what clothes I bought for her, and how she was encouraged to present herself. I didn't try to control her choices, but I did try to help her learn what looked appealing and attractive on her, so that she could choose for herself how she wanted the world to see her.

Yes, I disagree with the poster who mentioned that it's a disservice to explain to teens that how they present themselves has an impact on how they are viewed. I think they absolutely need to know.

Like you, I don't control what my children wear or what hairstyle they choose, but they understand that their choices will have an effect on the assumptions that other people make about them and that there may be social (or other) consequences for their choices. I think it's important to be honest. That doesn't mean I'm endorsing it, but I think it's important for them to be aware of social norms, prejudices, etc. Then they can make their own informed decisions.

My oldest child often cuts and dyes her hair. She has gone through many clothing styles, including dressing as a man, during different periods. She is well aware of how that affects what friends she makes, how others view her (including teachers-- yes, there have absolutely been issues there), and that it will potentially affect her career choices. She is free to make whatever choices she wants and I will love and accept her, but I'm not going to just avoid the conversation and then have her be completely oblivious when she can't find a job in her field after college.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I think she's Australian and my understanding is that many state run schools there DO do uniforms, especially grade schools. Several school districts in the US have been experimenting with that too- mostly urban from what I understand.

our school system has had uniforms since 2002. Hardly an experiment. We are not urban.

 

[dreamin_disney]

Its sad. She earned her diploma. I give her credit for finishing school.

Some churches are very strict with sex before marriage.

I had a bad experience with a leader and his wife. they were in charge of baptism, communions, confirmations and some other things. When I baptized my DD(I had her at age 26) they were nice until I said the words that Hubby and I weren't married. All of a sudden I was the worst person on earth! I bit my and didn't say a word and focused on baptizing my daughter. Then when DD went for 1st communion same thing(I chose not to get married) Hubby and I had jobs, a house and a good solid relationship. They made me feel like crap, called me a sinner and told us we didn't love our daughter because we weren't married. My daughter was standing there and when the leader looked at her and told her(she was 7-8) we didn't love her because we weren't married in the church. I LOST it! I looked them both in the eye and told them that, My hubby (finance at the time) and I Loved our daughter, we have a home, our relationship is probably stronger than most couples at the church, We don't drink, we don't cheat on each other and we are good people.
Then I said ," you look down on us because we aren't married and you wont accept us or forgive us but during sermon you tell us to forgive murders and rapist and tell us to forgive priest who have molested kids! I'm sure if God was standing here he would forgive me and accept me and my family! I walked out upset and in tears.

The married couple that were leaders sucked however the priest was a kind warm man. He accepted everyone and was loved by all. He told us as long as hubby love each other that's all that matters and when we are ready to marry he would counsel us and we wouldn't have to do the 6months of classes since we've already proved our commit by being with each other for almost 10 years. What a difference. In 2 months he married us. Almost 20 years later Hubby and I are still here stronger than ever.

I hope the girl in the story doesn't let this get her down. I hope it makes her stronger