pre purchase clarification

[zavandor]

1 - Disney will do whatever it takes to hit their dvc sales targets, and if that means making resales look less attractive by eliminating perks from resales, they will do that.

I've read here on the disboards a different and interesting point of view: it's not DVC interest to make drop resale value too much.

People will still want to get rid of their contracts (defaults, not wanting to go to Disney anymore...), so a resale market will always exist. If resales restrictions would be bigger than now, resales contacts would be less valuable, so the prices would drop.
What if they drop to other timeshares values, sold for 1$ on ebay?
I would perfectly happy to buy points that can be used only in one resort for 1$. I think prices will never drop that much, but bigger the difference, bigger the savings, bigger the interest in the resale market.

If resales value are just 20% less than direct, people would buy direct more. Because it's easier, faster and has some little perk more than resale.

 

[chalee94]

This isn't the first time I've heard this speculated on. While I know nothing is guaranteed, can you imagine the uproar DVD would create if they instituted a change like that??? <I couldn't find a smiley that consisted of a bunch of DVC members with pitchforks and burning torches...>

don't have to imagine it.

DVC hadn't changed the point charts for 15 years when they announced that they were increasing weeknight costs for 2010. lots of owners bought for the cheaper sun-thursday stays and sun-thursday rentals were very common...so posters complained and threatened lawsuits (generally saying that their guides had promised them that "the point charts will never change.")

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2066946&page=180

a few sold their contracts and most settled down and adjusted to the changes.

similar deal when resale restrictions were discussed. many owners assumed they would always have the right to sell a contract with the same perks as they purchased it with..."disney isn't just another timeshare, disney is different." here's one such opinion:

I agree with most of what's been said about the complicated legal hurdles DVC would have to navigate to make such changes possible. DVC has been far too shrewd to implement such changes that would devalue its product in the many ways (legal, public relations, economic) by implementing such a plan...It's all about PR and creating that which is magical. Being embroiled in a major lawsuit over changes in one of their brands is not something Disney would take lightly since it would not help future sales or value. I am sure their lawyers have it, more than the thread posters do, but it's Disney PR that would have to manage the fallout.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2558248&page=11

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2636666&page=6

again, a few sold their contracts and most settled down and adjusted to the changes.

if the HHI resort winds up being removed from the DVC system at some point (or even if intra-DVC trades in general are restricted), it's pretty easy to guess what will happen...

 

[JimMIA]

You disagree with me then say this , idk . So you think they can remove one of the"most important pillars" of there system and not only continue to get the same price but more . Lmao

I disagree .

A lot of above posts saying you didn't think they would get $100 pp . I agree in the current system the price incresses could be endless . My point was if they take away half of what is good about it thay can't sell for such a high price .

You're right -- we make the same assumptions and come up with opposite conclusions.

I think your belief that pricing would suffer is based on the assumption that timeshare prospects are knowledgeable consumers.

I don't believe that -- based on my own experience (knowing absolutely nothing when I first looked at DVC, and fortunately discovering the DIS before it was too late), reading the questions/comments/etc on this board from both prospective and existing owners, and also researching on other discussion boards. I see a LOT of folks, including some who have owned for many years, who really don't understand what they bought.

 

[JimMIA]

Wyndham has a VIP program but I can't speak to the specifics in this area.

Wyndham's VIP program might be instructive to DVC owners, because it illustrates many of the kinds of changes timeshare developers can make in their programs.

Wyndham's VIP benefits fall into three basic categories, and the degree of the benefit is dependant on the size of the account:

• Points discounts (up to 50%) and automatic unit upgrades, both with Wyndham and RCI.
• Time advantages -- both in making regular reservations at non-home resorts, and extensions of "credit pooling" deadlines. Credit pooling is Wyndham's method of banking and borrowing points.
• Exemptions from some of the nickel and dime charges Wyndham assesses -- reservation transactions, housekeeping credits, guest confirmations.

 

[BestDadEver]

Yo
I don't believe that -- based on my own experience (knowing absolutely nothing when I first looked at DVC, and fortunately discovering the DIS before it was too late), reading the questions/comments/etc on this board from both prospective and existing owners, and also researching on other discussion boards. I see a LOT of folks, including some who have owned for many years, who really don't understand what they bought.

I can agree with that statement . I still can't see them getting the same money . But that remains to be seen .

 

[BestDadEver]

don't have to imagine it.

DVC hadn't changed the point charts for 15 years when they announced that they were increasing weeknight costs for 2010. lots of owners bought for the cheaper sun-thursday stays and sun-thursday rentals were very common...so posters complained and threatened lawsuits (generally saying that their guides had promised them that "the point charts will never change.")
..

Those people weren't lied to . They just didnt understand the inflation protection . It's a common question that pops up around here .

 

[ELMC]

I can agree with that statement . I still can't see them getting the same money . But that remains to be seen .

I don't think the correlation between perks, price and whether or not anybody purchases is as strong as you think. We've seen it on here time and time again, people posting that they just "gotta have it" without any real consideration of the price or any deep understanding of what they're buying. And those are the people who have taken the time to find this forum. You have to imagine that there are many out there who stumble upon a DVC sales kiosk and go from neophyte to owner in a matter of hours. In those cases I don't think that they are comparing past benefits with what exists now or doing a comprehensive cost analysis of the purchase price vs. other options. And you can bet that whatever benefits are in existence after any potential changes will be sold quite well by the DVC salespeople.

If history has taught us anything, it has taught us that people buy DVC. Perks/incentives go away and they still buy. Prices go up (higher than many ever thought we would see) and they still buy. And as was said before by me and others, I think that restricting points to home resort only (while unlikely) would have just as many positives for DVD as it would negatives. They would turn around and market "exclusive" access to home resorts as if it were a benefit and it would lead to many, many people buying multiple home resorts so that they could book other locations. I know I would. Heck, I did just to get the 11 month booking window.

 

[vicki_c]

Timeshares are an impulse purchase for the vast majority of buyers. Changing benefits of the program is not really going to dampen sales, as long as the salespeople can still come up with a positive way to spin whatever benefits remain.

 

[belias21]

I don't believe that -- based on my own experience (knowing absolutely nothing when I first looked at DVC, and fortunately discovering the DIS before it was too late), reading the questions/comments/etc on this board from both prospective and existing owners, and also researching on other discussion boards. I see a LOT of folks, including some who have owned for many years, who really don't understand what they bought.

Sad, but oh so true... I don't even OWN yet (on day 23 of the ROFR wait) and I feel like I know more than a large majority. Thanks primarily to these boards.

 

[BestDadEver]

I don't think the correlation between perks, price and whether or not anybody purchases is as strong as you think. We've seen it on here time and time again, people posting that they just "gotta have it" without any real consideration of the price or any deep understanding of what they're buying. And those are the people who have taken the time to find this forum. You have to imagine that there are many out there who stumble upon a DVC sales kiosk and go from neophyte to owner in a matter of hours. In those cases I don't think that they are comparing past benefits with what exists now or doing a comprehensive cost analysis of the purchase price vs. other options. And you can bet that whatever benefits are in existence after any potential changes will be sold quite well by the DVC salespeople.

If history has taught us anything, it has taught us that people buy DVC. Perks/incentives go away and they still buy. Prices go up (higher than many ever thought we would see) and they still buy. And as was said before by me and others, I think that restricting points to home resort only (while unlikely) would have just as many positives for DVD as it would negatives. They would turn around and market "exclusive" access to home resorts as if it were a benefit and it would lead to many, many people buying multiple home resorts so that they could book other locations. I know I would. Heck, I did just to get the 11 month booking window.

So you would buy direct from disney @$130 pp for exclusive rights . I find that hard to believe since you are an advocate for resale .

I know I wouldn't .

 

[JimMIA]

Sad, but oh so true... I don't even OWN yet (on day 23 of the ROFR wait) and I feel like I know more than a large majority. Thanks primarily to these boards.

If you are waiting for ROFR...you do.

 

[ELMC]

So you would buy direct from disney @$130 pp for exclusive rights . I find that hard to believe since you are an advocate for resale .

I know I wouldn't .

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that many people who buy direct would do so regardless of the relationship between cost and perks. They want to buy and that's what they'll do.

There is a spectrum of acceptability when it comes to what someone will pay direct. Your limit for direct points is somewhere in the neighborhood of $110 (based on your previous posts). I personally would not pay that much. People who have purchased BLT recently have paid $150+ per point, so clearly they were ok with paying more. When VGF come out, people have already said that they expect to pay $180pp and will do so gladly. It's all about personal comfort level, and just because you or I wouldn't do something doesn't mean that there aren't others out there who would.

But if DVC suddenly made a change that you could only stay at your home resort, I would go out and buy BCV tomorrow. I would just buy resale.

 

[Dean]

I've read here on the disboards a different and interesting point of view: it's not DVC interest to make drop resale value too much.

People will still want to get rid of their contracts (defaults, not wanting to go to Disney anymore...), so a resale market will always exist. If resales restrictions would be bigger than now, resales contacts would be less valuable, so the prices would drop.
What if they drop to other timeshares values, sold for 1$ on ebay?
I would perfectly happy to buy points that can be used only in one resort for 1$. I think prices will never drop that much, but bigger the difference, bigger the savings, bigger the interest in the resale market.

If resales value are just 20% less than direct, people would buy direct more. Because it's easier, faster and has some little perk more than resale.

That's the idea behind ROFR but it only works when the spread is fairly small and the number of units being offered is manageable. You can't buy back more than you can sell plus those buy backs compete with direct sales anyway. Other timeshares are able to sell when resales are pennies on the dollar or even free. They'll lose out on some but not all. The only real weapon they have is to devalue the resales to the point where you get what you pay for even at a fraction of the retail cost. without a VIP system, it's almost impossible to do that and difficult even with a VIP system. At some point DVC may start to look at incentives linked to retail purchases such as extensions of current contracts or conversion to qualified points for other owned points.

 

[BestDadEver]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that many people who buy direct would do so regardless of the relationship between cost and perks. They want to buy and that's what they'll do.

There is a spectrum of acceptability when it comes to what someone will pay direct. Your limit for direct points is somewhere in the neighborhood of $110 (based on your previous posts). I personally would not pay that much. People who have purchased BLT recently have paid $150+ per point, so clearly they were ok with paying more. When VGF come out, people have already said that they expect to pay $180pp and will do so gladly. It's all about personal comfort level, and just because you or I wouldn't do something doesn't mean that there aren't others out there who would.

But if DVC suddenly made a change that you could only stay at your home resort, I would go out and buy BCV tomorrow. I would just buy resale.

That is the point that jim made , that I agreed with . I guess it remains to be seen .
I just can't picture if they were selling just the one resort , no rci , no ability to use other resorts ect (i am not taking about the other perks ), that it can pull that kind of price .

Buying resale makes no difference to disney cause I am pretty sure disney doesn't care if they dont get the money .

My view on my purchase wasent caped with a price . If I had to stay at blt I would of spent the money . I am not a picky person so any of the DVC resorts would be fine to me . If I can't change my reservation at 7 months I guess ill have to live with being " stuck" at my home resort . Therefore I chose the cheapest PP /MF .

Resale was not an option for me cause :
1)I am not interested in the drawn out process.
2)i dont want the limitation , actualy they made the limitations just after I started looking into dvc , had they not limit it then I may have done resale .
3)i do have a slight concern of what they might limit later down the road .

 

[csharpwv]

As many others have said... If you want to stay at WDW during Christmas, you need to buy at the resort where you prefer to stay - nothing other needs to be said.... add the PERIOD.

If you never want to stay at HHI or do not plan to use it as your home resort for stay purposes.... DO NOT make it your home resort for the purpose of ownership.

HHI Is a very nice resort, we love it! We love it so much we bought points there - in fact it is our largest contract!

If you plan to use your ownership at WDW - during the Christmas season, you will want to be on the phone every year in January to make your reservation to assure that you can do exactly what you intend to do - EVERY YEAR.

Just as a brief description of how you have to break down purchase over time to determine what the actual cost is, you have to do the following....
This is complex... so follow...
Purchase price of points divided by years of ownership
Maintenance fee point cost times the number of points times the years of ownership.
Add those two figures together - and you have the MINIMUM cost of ownership.

If you want to take that to the next level, you have to calculate the average increase of the maint. fees... which do in fact go up every year.

By following the total cost of ownership, you can see the minimum amount of savings VS. regular cash bookings.

Especially since you are planning to stay the same time every year... do yourself a favor, and buy where you would want to stay every year!


I know.... ever if you would LIKE to stay some where different every year, do as one of the PP's said... pick a resort that you wouldn't mind calling home for your holiday week every year, and if something better comes up - then GREAT! If not.... call OKW or SSR home for that week!

If I were you, I would hop on an OKW contract with a 2057 extension - low cost per point, low MF's, and a great general location, AND because you plan to spend the holidays there - the most spacious villas on property AND convenient parking to lug holiday 'stuff' in to the villa if you plan to put up a tree, exchange gifts, etc etc etc

BUT, I would not go with HHI or Vero Beach just because of the lower initial purchase price - you are going to pay WAY MORE in MF's every year than you ever could have saved!

 

[ELMC]

Buying resale makes no difference to disney cause I am pretty sure disney doesn't care if they dont get the money .

I'm curious to hear what makes you think this...

 

[DougEMG]

Timeshares are an impulse purchase for the vast majority of buyers. Changing benefits of the program is not really going to dampen sales, as long as the salespeople can still come up with a positive way to spin whatever benefits remain.

Totally agree.

 

[Dean]

So you would buy direct from disney @$130 pp for exclusive rights . I find that hard to believe since you are an advocate for resale .

I know I wouldn't .

Many who buy DVC are simply going to buy no matter the costs and in many cases, even if they know of the resale options. Again, lambs to the slaughter. However, I've said before, that there is a level of perk or option that would cause each and every person to consider a retail purchase. I don't see DVD going any where near that far to interest certain owners but anyone that tells you they'd never buy retail no matter what and can afford it, is likely not being honest with themselves. I bet I can come up with a scenario where every single person who finds DVC desirable would want to buy or add on resale, assuming they could afford it of course. Here's the rub, DVC is never going to throw all of those options our way and they don't have to. They really only need to get a subset to buy, not everyone.

 

[DougEMG]

So you would buy direct from disney @$130 pp for exclusive rights . I find that hard to believe since you are an advocate for resale .

I know I wouldn't .

ELMC's point was that most people buy direct and will continue to buy direct regardlessinert he finer details around how DVC works because they are not well informed. I would not ever place ELMC in the uninformed group, I'm pretty sure he researched everything he could before buying.

 

[DougEMG]

They really only need to get a subset to buy, not everyone.

Exactly. The person who buys GF and Poly direct is not going to be the same person that buys SSR resale.

Dean, do you think that if ever DVC were to start a VIP style club that They would do it once GF goes up for sale and that if they don't set it up then, they probably never will.