Pop Century Legendary Years - 03/2007 & Updated 06/2008!

[cccm]

Stayed at POP last year. It took me a couple of days and crossing the bridge to figure out what it was. My first instinct was that it was CM housing.

Loved RC when I went in 85, and I didn't like water then.

 

[jenseib]

There is another thread about the legendary years resort too. It had a link to some pictures taken over there. It was really neat. If I can find the link I'll post it.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Those pictures from from Jim Hills website and are a couple of years old.. hence why I took new ones. But yes.. it would be good to have that thread linked here as well!

Knox

 

[jenseib]

http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jeff_lange/archive/2006/04/13/1813.aspx

 

[DisneyDuke02]

Although it would be nice to have more "real" Disney hotels & resorts, financially it makes more sense to lease the land then create, build, staff, and operate another hotel or fix Legendary Years. I for one would love to see Legendary come to life, but I will be shocked if it happens.

I would imagine that WDW would recieve a very nice cut of the revenue generated from Westward expansion hotels, Four Seasons, etc for the desirable location(s) they are being placed on without the hassle of running the properties. Long term I would not be surprised if Disney goes the way of Marriott/Hilton/Starwood where an outside hotel management company handles the day to day operations of multiple "branded" properties. So I could stay at "Disney's XYZ Hotel," get the Disney benefits (charging, package delivery, etc), be on Disney property, and be a happy Disney hotel guest - without Disney running the hotel. You'd still have corporate owned hotels like WL, YC, GF and then franchise properties. To get the franchise agreement I am VERY confident that Disney would have one heck of a good franchise fee and annual "cut" so it could be a cash cow for them. Plus you are getting people on property so a significant amount of their $$ will be flowing into the parks, restaurants, retail, etc.....it wouldn't be a major business loss.

There is a whole other discussion to be had about brand management and such in regards to franchising, but from a corporate perspective it's a compelling way to go financially.

 

[CanadianGuy]

The only catch is.. the press release did not make it clear if the Western Development hotel accommodations would be Disney owned value accommodations or a 'partner/franchise' setup in the 'budget' category. It could go either way. A careful reading of the press materials doesn't clear this up.

Knox

 

[mom2taylorandemily]

RC had to be shut down. There were regulatory reasons as I understand it. Might be wrong on that.

No, I think you are right that they closed RC for environmental issues, but, why not take the time to tear it down. It is truely an eyesore, as is the old Discovery Island (which I know is protected land). They need to take the time to remove the slides and all the other stuff in disrepair at RC and then they need to take the time to clean up Discovery Island so that it doesn't look so overgrown. Its clear that something used to be there, the boat launch gives it away. My concern is that both of these could become a legal issue. What if someone were to get into the fenced off area at RC and then get hurt. They have the slides still up, there is water still standing in some areas (pool being one of them) it is a potential danger. And there is no security (it appears) at the old Discovery Island, and with a jet ski, someone could easily get to the island undiscovered and have a nice little visit. It just opens up a whole other can of worms.

 

[qv09vvp]

My vote is for tearing down the POP legendary years & building a "value" Vacation Club resort so I can afford to join up! (yeah , yeah, I know its all points based but IF the points I had WENT for more nights on avg, I'd definately stay at a "value" DVC)

 

[houseofprincesses]

We just stayed at the Pop in Sept and after seeing the unfinished section asked the CM when they were going to be completed - we were told that because of the success of the DVC, they might ultimately make that section into suites and use it as a DVC resort. Has anyone else heard anything like this?

 

[CathrynRose]

We were at Pop in Sept. and it's an eyesore to look across the lake. They need to finish building the other half of Pop Century, or tear down that partial construction. I'm wondering if there is a lot of mold and water damage and if it would have to be torn down anyway even if they plan on rebuilding it sometime soon.

Agree - 100%

And I also wonder about damage at this point. Is it even salvagable?

I might make a covert operation over the bridge in September. The eagle has landed. Im going in......

 

[CathrynRose]

I agree.

But , it seems like Disney does have a way of just abandoing thier poperty when a project is no longer useful to them.

Case in point River Country.

What a shame!

What a shame is right.... if that picture of the innertube floating doesnt sum it all up, I dont know what does...

How about Discovery Island....another "we dont need it anymore" pile of landm, just sitting.

 

[clkelley]

So I could stay at "Disney's XYZ Hotel," get the Disney benefits (charging, package delivery, etc), be on Disney property, and be a happy Disney hotel guest - without Disney running the hotel.

So far they have made it a habit that the "not quite" Disney hotels don't get all the same amenities.

Swan/Dolphin, and Shades of Green don't get Magical Express and don't have property-wide charging priveledges like the Disney-owned hotels. Not sure what they will do with Four Seasons or the Western Development, but I bet they won't be included in those perks either.

 

[CathrynRose]

It seems funny that Disney would just let these buildings sit unfinished and then allow a "non disney" company to build a brand new value resort with thousands of rooms right outside the maingate. If it was me I would finish Pop before letting some other company swoop in and take business away from the value resorts.

You'd think, wouldnt you?

Would would Walt think?

 

[ZPT1022]

No, I think you are right that they closed RC for environmental issues, but, why not take the time to tear it down. It is truely an eyesore, as is the old Discovery Island (which I know is protected land). They need to take the time to remove the slides and all the other stuff in disrepair at RC and then they need to take the time to clean up Discovery Island so that it doesn't look so overgrown. Its clear that something used to be there, the boat launch gives it away. My concern is that both of these could become a legal issue. What if someone were to get into the fenced off area at RC and then get hurt. They have the slides still up, there is water still standing in some areas (pool being one of them) it is a potential danger. And there is no security (it appears) at the old Discovery Island, and with a jet ski, someone could easily get to the island undiscovered and have a nice little visit. It just opens up a whole other can of worms.

Yup, you are right. Trust me, DH wants to go exploring in a big way. I do to, just to see it but I'm not really the type who would actually do it. Drive by in a pontoon boat and take pics with a telephoto lens? Absolutely. But actually getting off the boat and onto the island, while it sounds fun I am not as daring as I used to be

 

[CanadianGuy]

Originally Posted by TigrLvsPooh
It seems funny that Disney would just let these buildings sit unfinished and then allow a "non disney" company to build a brand new value resort with thousands of rooms right outside the maingate. If it was me I would finish Pop before letting some other company swoop in and take business away from the value resorts.

You'd think, wouldnt you?

Would would Walt think?

I'll warn ya now.. this is a long post.. cause I've been thinking about these issues lots and Cathryn, I know you were winking when you said 'What would Walt think" .. but lots of people say that seriously.. anyway.. here's what I think.

Walt was a dreamer. Yes. But he was also a guy who recognized a good deal when he saw one.

And Disney perceives the Four Seasons deal to be a good use of 300 acres of land.. and a good way to extend their reach in to the very high end luxury market. Despite the fact that we all love them, none of the current Disney resorts are technically 'Five Star' resorts by any recognized standard in the travel industry.

So we can disagree with this deal all we like.. and I will admit I'm uneasy about the Four Seasons aspect the deal.. it does serve a segment of the market that Disney Resorts do not currently serve. Could Disney have tried to serve that market? They did. The Grand Floridian never got it's five star designation. They couldn't pull it off.

Lots of other hotels are 'on property' and run by other companies...

- Swan
- Dolphin
- Shades of Green
- The Downtown Disney Hotels (7 of 'em)

So this is not new. That people think this is news.. is news to me.

As for the Western Development.. it is not yet clear who will own or run any hotel rooms in this area. The Disney press materials are not clear on this point and with a ten year development cycle.. they are optimistically 5 to 8 years away from anyone sleeping in them. In those five to eight years.. a LOT can happen. A fifth park could be built and opened in that time frame. In fact plans might be on the table right now -- we don't know.

Five to eight years is a LONG time. LOTS of time for Disney to do something with the Legendary years property... including tear it down, and build something we don't know about, finish it as originally planned or gut it and make a waterpark if they wish. (For example) Remember, the construction pads (electrical, plumbing etc) are DONE for the other buildings. They could finish this in a very short construction cycle if they so wished.

What would Walt think? Well, I think he'd recognize the underlying value in the two deals. I recognize others don't agree with my thinking. We simply cannot know the long term plans that these two deals are probably a very key part of.. I read an interesting website the other day postulating about a fifth park in the area of the Western Development at some point in the future. If that were eventually to be the case (big IF).. suddenly the Western Development looks smart.

And Disney 'value' resorts don't compete effectively with a lot of the budget hotels on I-192. This is another way to get more of THOSE guests to stay on property and maybe eventually see the value in the higher-cost Disney hotels. What if these new hotels are a new level of Disney 'resort.' So the new order is budget, value, moderate, deluxe? That *could* be the case. We don't know.

In fact.. these rooms could end up just being MORE value accommodations.

But then again.. People were all up in arms when the original value resorts opened. They felt it cheapened the brand and diluted the Disney experience. The spectre of Walt's ghost was brought up then as well. "What would Walt think? He would never approve."

Did Values change the Disney experience? Yes absolutely. For better or worse? A matter of opinion I'm afraid. But I bet lots of people tried a Value and eventually tried a Mod and no doubt some of those even tried a Deluxe. People who might never have stayed on Disney property at all otherwise.

The big point to me.. and this seems completely lost on these boards and in the press materials... nobody seems to realize that some of the individual homes available along the golf course by the Four Seasons resort will be for sale for full-time occupancy.

Yes, a majority will probably be fractional use... but some of those homes will be the VERY FIRST on-site homes for sale for full time single-family living. That to me is the MUCH BIGGER deal out of this release that nobody seems to pick up on. That's the headline in my book. Not that the Four Seasons will run a resort on Disney property.

Think about it. Some families will call Disney (not Celebration) home. Very wealthy families at that I suppose.

I do kinda chuckle at everyone always bringing up Walt. Remember it's easy to love someone who's dead. They make SO FEW mistakes.

Knox

 

[jenseib]

Walts origional idea for for Epcot was to be a running and working city with poeple living there . But after he died, they thought that was an impossible thing to accomplish. In other words how could they charge park admission to people when it was a regular running city.
People living on property now does sound weird though. I bet the price wil be VERY high.

Walt was a great guy, but remember he bought all that FL land in secrecy because he wanted to by it at the cheapest price possible. He knew if people knew it was him buying it the price would sky rocket, which it did as soon as they found out. Walt was a business man as well.
I don't likethe idea of non Dsiney own resorts going up. I was under the impression that "Disney" was mad at Eisner for doing that in the past.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I don't likethe idea of non Dsiney own resorts going up. I was under the impression that "Disney" was mad at Eisner for doing that in the past.

The Swan and Dolphin went up under Eisner's watch.. that's true... but while he was famously not terribly in love with the parks.. he wasn't a fan of that deal either.. rumor had it he didn't think it was advantageous enough for Disney. (IE: They weren't making enough money off the deal)

The deal was done by the time he took over at Disney and Eisner couldn't get them out of it; I've heard they tried to get out of it. So the hotels stayed and were built.

That's the folklore I've read anyway.

And the Downtown Disney resorts went up originally in the 70's. Who was running Disney then? (I honestly don't know the answer to this)

Knox

 

[withay]

this is interesting because when i stayed at pop in august, i saw the new resort being built as well. however, it looks like NOTHING has changed in 7 months..i saw the main building looking like that, the buildings look the same, it looked identical to the pictures taken recently..whats up with that?

 

[CanadianGuy]

this is interesting because when i stayed at pop in august, i saw the new resort being built as well. however, it looks like NOTHING has changed in 7 months..i saw the main building looking like that, the buildings look the same, it looked identical to the pictures taken recently..whats up with that?

Lauren:

Those buildings have not been worked on in years.

Construction was halted on ALL of Pop Century shortly after 9-11 and the accompanying drop in tourism.

Pop Century - Classic Years was eventually finished.. But Pop Century - Legendary Years.. has been in limbo ever since.

Knox

 

[minnie61650]

.....And the Downtown Disney resorts went up originally in the 70's. Who was running Disney then? (I honestly don't know the answer to this)

Knox

The answer is Roy Disney (Walt's brother).

When Walt passed away Roy postponed his retirement to oversee construction of the resort.
He wanted to make his brother's dream a reality. Roy passed away in December 1971, barely two months after it opened.

It was Roy who insisted that the new park be named Walt Disney World giving all the credit to his brother. Originally the property was going to named Disney World.

Roy created the Disney Hotal Plaza area because he knew more choices were needed and in order to be ready for the Oct. 1st ,1971 Grand Opening of WDW, the plans for the
Persian Resort-Slated for northwestern shore ofBay Lake, past Contemporary Resort

Venetian Resort-Slated for Seven Seas Lagoon site between TTC & Contemporary Resort

And the Asian Resort
(where the Grand Floridian was built 18 years later )had to put on hold.

At Grand Opening in 1971: Disney's Contemporary Resort; Disney's Polynesian Resort; Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort & Campground were opened.
The following year in
1972: Disney's Village Resort (treehouse & Vacation Villas); Royal Plaza; Grosvenor (Dutch Inn); traveLodge; Courtyard by Marriott (Howard Johnson) were opened.