Pool "Hopping Mad" UPDATED

[BobH]

Discussing LiDisney's bad experience and trying to rationalize an excuse for how she was treated is way out of line by both the members of this board and DVC. I would suggest that DVC should have run her membership card number and determined that she was a Boardwalk member and then left her alone. Disney needs to retrain the representative that asked her to leave. Situations mishandled as this one was do Disney more harm than it is worth. Hope things turn out better next time.

 

[normr]

All we know is what happened and a suppossed apology, we are discussing why did this happen, including whether pool hopping (one of our benefits) and outsiders showing up at pools that could be adding to the problem of overcrowded pools. So why are we "WAY OF LINE"? This is a discussion board. Most of us agree that this member was unfairly treated and it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

And some people complained about no slide at OKW where the majority of members who own there don't want one, and in the past some people accused us OKW owners for being too cheap to want to pay for one, I look at it this way, if I want a sliide, I'll go to the waterparks.h

 

[CarolAnnC]

I would like to take a moment to remind everyone to please stay on the pool hopping topic, and also a reminder that Personal Attacks will not be tolerated on this board. Thank you!

<font size=4><font color=purple><font face=BrushArt>Carol</font></font></font>

<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - Theme Park Attractions and Strategies Board</font></font>
<font color=purple><font face=tahoma>Co Mod - Cruise Board</font></font>
<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - DVC Board</font><

 

[Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Discussing LiDisney's bad experience and trying to rationalize an excuse for how she was treated is way out of line by both the members of this board and DVC [/quote] I'm not sure I can agree, at least with the treatment on this board. Seems everyone is in agreement that she was treated inappropriately. But since you brought it up, LETS examine the facts.

As I think everyone has stated, this was handled totally inappropriate and LIDisneyFan should not have been singled out nor treated as she apparently was. There are however, two sides to every story. LIDisneyFan didn't follow the currently in place Pool Hopping rules by checking with the front desk or destination resort. We've already heard testimony that the BW pool was officially closed to pool hopping on that day. The fact she's a BW owner has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this. What's critical is that she is a DVC member staying at another resort on DVC points. Also, as mentioned, there must have been some reason that she was singled out and I don't believe it is because of her DVC bag. I don't know what the reason was and it obviously doesn't warrant treating her in this way, but likely has bearing on why she was approached. Possibilities might include someone overheard them talking about staying at OKW, maybe the kids were being loud, maybe someone felt she took their chair and a host of other possibilities I don't know.

Since we don't know why she was approached, we can't make a judgement as to the reasonableness of the decision. Also, it seems pretty clear that words were exchanged in both directions; since we weren't there and we have no unbiased witnesses, it's hard to make a lot of judgements there either. So without further info or corroboration from another source, all we know is that 1. the CM was unable to prevent this from deteriorating into a scene, 2. she was appropoached and we don't know why, 3. she was pool hopping when BW was closed to pool hopping, 4. being a resort owner has nothing to do with pool hopping unless you're staying at that resort.

Again, not to condone the way she was treated, which was not appropriate. I'm more interested into the specifics and the "why" though I suspect we'll never know more than we do now. If we get lucky, maybe another member was there and just hasn't returned yet and we can get a blow by blow description.

Dean

 

[Caskbill]

Dean, you are exactly correct with your response. There are two sides to every story and mostly what we are hearing is one side. I'm sure the pool manager (DVC manager) will not be allowed to post his side.

So what we have here is a very unfortunate incident. It happened because of miscommunication both on the part of Disney not making the rules more obvious, and the guest not checking beforehand. I hope that whatever consideration has been offered to LIDisneyFan has settled this 'specific' incident.

Now the question is how do you prevent this from happening again? I believe both DVC management and owners need to have a clear understanding of what rules and procedures are in place.

The main problem is communication, and control. I believe these can be handled:

1. Upon check-in at a DVC resort, the checkin package could include a clear, simple up-to-date sheet showing pool-hopping priviledges currently in effect. It should also list the phone number of every resort where hopping is allowed and have a statement advising to call before going over to ensure that no capacity limits have been reached or are in effect.

2. Your room key card can carry lots of information. They can probably code it to add a 'pool hopping' id.

3. Disney should 'gate' ALL main pools. I believe this could be done tactfully. All gates would have resort key 'swipe' type locks on them to gain access. This then does not require a CM be on duty at all hours. (Which would be costly) The key for a guest staying at any particular resort would always work for the pool gate at <u> that resort </u>. The key of a guest staying at a different resort with hopping priviledges would work at the gate for the resort extending the priviledges when pool hopping is in effect. The code at the gate could be changed quickly when priviledges are suspended due to capacities, etc.

This solves a number of problems:

1. It allows access to the pools only for that resorts' current guests, and others who have pool hopping priviledges to that pool. This then excludes all other WDW guests without hopping priviledges, and all non-WDW guests who stay off-property, and those Florida residents who utilize Disney facilities that they are not entitled to.

2. Once a guest is in a pool area, they can stay. If capacity is reached after they arrive, it affects only those coming after the gate codes were changed.

3. By calling the resort numbers listed, a guest can ensure the pool is open and the gate key will let them in when they arrive at the pool.


On a personal note, in 8-years of DVC membership, I have only pool hopped once, to SAB. To me, pool hopping priviledges is not a big deal. However, I do get upset when I go to my home resort pool and find it full of non-guests. I feel the facilities are there for my use, and not for others staying off-property, in other resorts, or because they happen to live close by!

To me this is similar to the problem with all the Florida residents taking all the parking places at BWV's so they can go to Epcot without paying a parking fee. There have been plenty of past threads on this topic before.

Just my 2-cents worth

Caskbill

 

[Crissup]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>CaptainMidnight Wrote:
......Perhaps the CM could be required to where some kind of letter like an "R" so we would all know they were rude...... I'm trying to think of a color for the letter that would help convey the transgression........[/quote]

ROTFL!!!!! ...and you will wear that humiliation until your moral improves!!

John M. Crissup

crissup@disneyfan.com
Crissup's Web Site

 

[CarolA]

As I read through this, I noticed two things. You should ALWAYS read everything prior to signing the contract! Anything not in writing is NOT guaranteed. Pool hopping is NOT in the contract. Also, I strongly disagree with the theory that if I am a BWV member staying at All Stars I get to use the BWV pool. I have never heard that before and it really makes no sense. Your points pay for the services for x nights. If you use stay at Disney more nights than you have points you have to buy those services, you don't still get them.

Personally if I was Disney and had to put up with all the mess pool hopping causes, I would just cancel it. You will notice that there is no pool hopping at AKL. This may very well be the wave of the future.

CarolA

 

[CaptainMidnight]

>"I strongly disagree with the theory that if I
>am a BWV member staying at All Stars I get to
>use the BWV pool."

I Agree. I'll have to read more closely, if anyone is saying that they expect pool hopping at a time when they are not staying at a DVC resort as DVC members then they are wrong to make that assumption. I agree with your statement above. The only grey area for me is a DVC member staying at a DVC resort but staying on a cash paying night (because they didn't have enough points to cover all nights and needed to add one or two, etc.). But, DVC ownership is not an open invitation to use pools anytime while on grounds regardless of ownership.

I guess I also have to applaud Disney for beginning to police its pools. It is absurd that outside people who are not guests at DVC resorts should be using the pools.

That takes valuable pool room away that could be used for some people who may need to have five family members in a 4 person studio one bedroom.

I am concerned that continuing problems with pool hopping that are not addressed in a rational means, certainly by better communication on Disney's and CM's part and non-hysterics on members part (not finger pointing to any previous posts here) will result in a change of the rules to no pool hopping just to make things easier. I think we are all aware that Easter and Christmas vacation time is a time where pool hopping is more likely to be restricted. A few abusers may spoil it for all of us.

It is so nice to have the privledge of visiting another resort while legitimately staying as a DVC member for an activity other than just eating and looking. I have such wonderful memories of being 16 at the Contemporary pool and with my bride at the Grand Floridian. It is wonderful to share those stories with my children for swimming visits.

I also agree that if you are staying at another resort on points, BW ownership really doesn't have anything to do with it unless you are staying at BW.

But these non-resort staying guests using the pools need to be criminally prosecuted and permanently banned from WDW.

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-15-01 at 05:42 PM.]

 

[Dizpro]

How could Disney "permantly ban" some one from WDW?????Brand them with an "X" through the Mickey symbol placed on their forehead????

 

[BobH]

Sorry Norm. I truly did not wish to offend anyone. I voiced my opinion a little too strongly after reading a few of the posts that sounded as if they were criticizing LIDisneyfan for being upset at an occurence that would dissapoint anyone that was trying to enjoy their vacation.

 

[nuthut]

If the person was not staying at the Boardwalk resort and they were swimming in the pool without permission then they were doing the same as shoplifting. (Taking something without paying.) The DVC member is only an owner paying dues when they are registered as a guest on points. When they were asked to leave, they need to leave because WDW is private property and Disney can control who does what including a total ban of any person who will not follow the rules they see fit to lay down.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

>How could Disney "permantly ban" some one from >WDW?????Brand them with an "X" through the Mickey >symbol placed on their forehead????

Ya, your right.... criminal prosecution would have to do.

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-15-01 at 08:26 PM.]

 

[Lisa P.]

I agree with the posts by Dean and CarolA. It does sound as if LilDisney was treated very poorly. I would have been terribly embarrassed too and it would have been all the worse for having my children see it. Much more tact would have been appropriate. LilDisney's perception that owning at BWV somehow gave her family an exception to a pool-hopping restriction at BWV that day may have set off the Rec Mgr. The bottom line is that they still ought to have used more tact and every attempt to speak with her out of earshot of others. I'm glad that it seems someone has made an effort to smooth things out for LilDisney.

A couple of questions:
How can we know that others were not also asked to leave, after her family left? Perhaps, there was a more extensive sweep in asking for ID's. I would hope so. She said others quickly hopped into her family's chairs, which suggests that perhaps the BWV pool area was indeed rather crowded.

If you all are not satisfied that the current communication regarding this privilege is sufficient, what would be a reasonable solution, from the management perspective?
--- Fencing in all pools is expensive and unattractive.
--- Staffing entries with Resort ID checkers is expensive.
--- Having every DVC resort front desk call every other resort for an update every day is time-consuming, for the sake of a handful of pool-hopping DVC'ers.
--- Asking other resorts to report their pool-hopping status daily to every DVC resort is unreasonable (they don't answer to DVC).
--- Pool-hopping is nearly always available year-round, only necessitating minor, occasional changes.

My suggestion? Have a "pool-hopping status" option on the Member Services phone menu (where you press "3" to make reservations, press "5" for example). Set it up so that each WDW resort desk may leave a message to be played on a separate sub-menu # for their own resort. Members could call Member Services and listen to the message left for the resort they planned to visit and if there were ever a problem, they could ask the CM to go ahead and listen to the taped message they'd heard earlier that day. Even DVC front desk CM's could easily call this number to check for guests.

Most resorts would always have a basic message, like "DVC Members staying at a WDW DVC resort on DVC points are welcome to pool-hop today and tomorrow, here at the Polynesian Resort! Aloha!" Resorts would only need to update their message when there was a change in pool-hopping status.

The instructions for making this call to Member Services could be printed up and given to DVC Members at check-in. It could also be printed in the new Vacation Magic. Any thoughts?

 

[CarolMN]

Lisa P -

I agree that fences and resort card swipes are expensive and could end up being "unsightly".

As far as communications go, I agree that some type of "voice mail" system that members could call for current info would do the trick without a lot of additional cost. After all, Disney already has voice mail systems in place.

As far as controlling pool access, I personally like the waterproof hand stamp idea that someone mentioned earlier. When the pool is too crowded and ID checks are necessary, the CM can "stamp" those who show/have the appropriate ID. Since the pool snack bars are definitely open during "crowded times", perhaps they too could have access to the "Stamp of the Day", and help with access control. It should be easy enough for CM's to make a polite announcement asking all those without hand stamps to leave due to overcrowding (or get a stamp if they have proper ID). A CM could also ask to see someone's stamp and either give a person a stamp if they had proper ID or quietly explain and ask them to leave. I don't think this method would be either tough to use or expensive to implement. It would also allow a CM to discreetly "make an exception" to the rules if the circumstances so warranted. A stamp system is relatively inexpensive and would only be needed on days the pool is expected to be "too crowded".

What do you all think? Other positive ideas for solving the "problem" ???

 

[DebbieB]

I agree that having the DVC resorts call all the other Disney resorts would be time consuming. It would make more sense that if pool hopping would not be permitted that day/week, that the resort doing the exception call the 3 DVC resorts. The DVC resorts seem to do a good job of getting a Voice Mail out to all members reminding them of the weekly DVC member meeting (it always makes me nervous when I come back to the room and see that light flashing, I first think there's an emergency at home), they could use the same system to VM members about the pool hopping. The central number idea is a good one too. This ban on pool hopping is an exception during very busy times, so I'm sure they see it coming rather than it being a surprise one day and should be ready for it and get the word out.

 

[cramam]

Just returned today and agree with previous posts of most regarding the mishandling of the this matter. To throw another curve into the discussion I went to the front desk Thurs at OKW to ask if pool hopping was available to the POLY( I was under the impression it was where I was supposed to check). The CM called and said the POLY was sold out but pool hopping was not restricted. Off we went, but at the guard shack we were stopped and told that they had just been issued a memo stating that pool hoppers were not to use their own transport but had to use WDW transportation. I told her I was unaware of this policy and she let me park anyway. Remainder of visit was without incident. The new POLY pool is very nice btw. Has anyone heard this one.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Well, that should discourage pool hopping...having to use Disney transportation. I'm certainly not about to spend my time waiting for buses and transfers to check out a pool.

 

[normr]

I just wondered why you stated we were all way out of line, in our discussion?

We all basically agree that even if pool hopping was not in effect at BW that day, that the BW manager should have handled the situation in a more Disney way instead of tossing the poor lady and her kids off the property.

Weren't we told in the past to contact the front desk of the resort we are staying at what the pool hopping situation is.

It's very easy for one resort to e-mail or call the other and post this info.t

 

[PamOKW]

MaryAnn I guess we need to get it clarified but I think pool hopping by Disney transportation is for when the resorts are full. You can use the pool but not take up parking (or use the pool hopping excuse to park at the Poly and head to the parks).

 

[LIDisneyFan]

Hi all,

To straighten a few things out, let me detail (as a few of you have asked) what happened.

First, I am male (everyone is assuming female - don't know why, just thought I'd start out with something a bit light)

Second, there was no 'scene'. My embarrassment came from being asked to leave. In front of my children. In front of other guests who I had been having conversations with during the day. My children being asked to leave friends they had been playing with.

Third, the CM was not rude. He has polite. I never said anything about rudeness or politeness. He 'offered' us an extra half hour- remember? I felt that was kind of insulting and missing the point, but I think he was being sincere. Point is that once we were there, we should not have been asked to leave.

Fourth - we followed the policy posted on the web site (the excerpt of which I put in a previous post). It specifically mentioned SAB and calling that resort - no others

Fifth - I know they didn't check others because we waited after leaving our seats to see if those people were checked. They were not. The CM left the area. We waited while we decided who we should speak to.

Sixth - We were not noisy, rude, have wild children, etc. We did not make a secret that we were staying at OKW, but it even appeared that the CM looked at our DVC bag (strangly the only one out that day) - but there were even chairs available (not a lot) and we only had one pool chair, so I can't imaging anyone asked to have us leave to get a chair. The only other way they could have known is that at the snack bar they had my resort ID (yellow) and a whole bunch of blue ones. Are the ID's for OKW a different color than BW? It happened right after I settled my bill - maybe that's how I was targeted?

Seventh - My issue is threefold. 1) I followed the rules Disney posted (read the website now) and was asked to leave MID-DAY. 2) My salesrep answered a very clear and specific question on pool hopping with a very clear and direct answer about it's availability while signing my contract, and 3) there were other non-resort guests at the pool. Also, as I have indicated, one guest (cash) told me they had 7 people in a 1 bedroom (I was 'selling' on her buying DVC, and mentioned the 4 in a 1 BR rule and she told me they had 7, each with their own resort ID card) who were using the pool - taking up just as many 'extra' spaces as a dues paying, BW owner (yes, I realize that does no entitle me to use this pool as defined by the contract, but not as defined by my salesperson)

So, that's it. I chose to leave quietly rather than cause a scene. I refuse to sink to the level of causing a scene and further embarrassing myself or my family.

And I refuse to sit quietly becuase I'm afraid Disney will take away pool hopping like a parent discipling a child. That would 'taint' the DVC experience more than anything else, since we all signed over all of our rights when we signed our contracts.

My main concern, as been expressed here many times on several issues (this one, 5 in a 1 BR, using the pool towels in your room, etc. etc. etc.), is that Disney's salespeople feel they can say anything to get you to sign, then not have to deliver. I doubt anyone read the entire 100 page + offering document during their contract signing - if they did, great. But I was not about to hire a real estate attorney familiar with Florida real peoperty law to advise me on a timeshare purchase. Yes, I will abide by whatever the rules are, but Disney must be acountable for the answers given by the sales staff. I want to hear from them how they plan on treating a member who was lied to.

Period.

[This message was edited by LIDisneyFan on 04-16-01 at 11:18 AM.]