Poly DVC expansion coming 2024!

[Paul Stupin]

Your thinking like the 2% of DVC that is on this site - we are not normal. We know 11/7 booking hassles and that the bungalows are ridiculously not worth the points with the CCV cabins at 20% less.

60-65% of sales are net new customers for Riv and VGF and PVB will not be different - the guides would rather say " why yes, you can book a longhouse or the tower or the bungalows all at 11 months and all the other resorts at 7 months" vs " You can book the tower at 11 or the longhouses and bungalows at 7 the other resorts at 7 and I am required to have you sign this to make sure you understand that these points are restricted and only work on these 200 rooms if you sell them" I have not seen any evidence from RIV that restrictions speed up sales, in fact, most signs point to the opposite. Simple sells, while complicated terms make people overthink it and walk away.

As for the other people like me who own at PVB 1 - most own studio-sized contracts. If I wanted 1BR or 2 BR at PV2 I would need to add on and I would probably add on direct as the price difference will most likely be minimal for an extra 75 to 100 points vs the overinflated sold-out direct price of 250 for PVB. This is what is going on now with VGF - why buy small contracts resale for 175 when you can get direct for 198ish? Existing PVB owners will buy points.

Also everyone keeps falling into the " money lost " fallacy - 100% of the points will be sold by Disney for the tower - the only question is at what rate per point and what speed. RIV has not shown that restrictions speed up sales and they need a discount to sell

Didn't Disney use the exact, overly complicated logic you’re deriding to sell CCV? Didn’t seem to bother buyers that they’d have to wait till the 7 month mark to book the larger, more private rooms at BRV.

 

[Nursemanit]

“Money lost” fallacy? If it’s the same association, resale contract owners will be able to use their points to stay in the new tower, or buy additional resale points to augment what they have. Disney does not make money when resale contracts exchange hands, which is why they add incentives, restrictions, and perks to sweeten the deal for buying direct. What am I missing?

It is a fallacy because Disney will be selling let's say 4 million points @200 a point. So 800 million dollars will be sold. There is no competition for the 4 million points because only Disney can sell them They can't go to Universal and get any of the 4 million points.

Yes some will walk away and not buy - but that is not lost revenue or an expense since the guides work mostly on commission, they will just sell the points to the next guy who walks up. And they will sell all the points anyway just like they have at every WDW resort. Now some will say they will sell them faster with restrictions but RIV has not shown that in the real world - in fact, they are in my estimation losing about 30 million in discounts that are needed to get over the Restriction complications.

 

[Nursemanit]

Didn't Disney use the exact, overly complicated logic you’re deriding to sell CCV? Didn’t seem to bother buyers that they’d have to wait till the 7 month mark to book the larger, more private rooms at BRV.

But they were forced to due to the huge difference in contract length. That is not the case in PVB.

You could not sell a 2042 resort in 2017 for full price.

 

[Paul Stupin]

It is a fallacy because Disney will be selling let's say 4 million points @200 a point. So 800 million dollars will be sold. There is no competition for the 4 million points because only Disney can sell them They can't go to Universal and get any of the 4 million points.

Yes some will walk away and not buy - but that is not lost revenue or an expense since the guides work mostly on commission, they will just sell the points to the next guy who walks up. And they will sell all the points anyway just like they have at every WDW resort. Now some will say they will sell them faster with restrictions but RIV has not shown that in the real world - in fact, they are in my estimation losing about 30 million in discounts that are needed to get over the Restriction complications.

Let’s not forget, though, that Disney is playing the long game. Their ultimate goal is to prevent resale owners from using resale points to stay in newly constructed resorts, which over time will funnel additional consumer money into buying direct. That’s no fallacy.

And I don’t think the pace of Riviera’s sales has anything to do with restriction complications. Not that I agree, but there are those that have issues with both its design and location. My guess is that restrictions are not a factor about which impulse buyers really care, since they’re not a part of that ”2%” to which you refer that debates it endlessly!

 

[Nursemanit]

Let’s not forget, though, that Disney is playing the long game. Their ultimate goal is to prevent resale owners from using resale points to stay in newly constructed resorts, which over time will funnel additional consumer money into buying direct. That’s no fallacy.

No, I don't agree with that statement or see evidence to support it. Disney is just like any US cooperation - they live and die quarter to quarter and the leadership will be changed if they have a few bad quarters. They don't care about resale owners staying in new resorts, they care about selling the points and they sell 100% of the points they offer for WDW resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

Well yes. However, what I was really saying is that the points at PVB will not be able to cover as much at Poly2, which will IMO have the highest point charts in all of DVC. Especially if all of the rooms are TPV.

There is a lot of assumption that PVB buyers didn’t buy enough points for larger rooms.

PVB is one of the easiest to get into at 7 months. That means a lot of those owners are not staying there..and I’d bet it is because they go to larger units.

Regardless, whether the PVB owner had enough to stay only 3 nights at the tower vs 5 nights, they simply need to add on a small amount of new points to make it possible to stay.

 

[Sandisw]

Your thinking like the 2% of DVC that is on this site - we are not normal. We know 11/7 booking hassles and that the bungalows are ridiculously not worth the points with the CCV cabins at 20% less.

60-65% of sales are net new customers for Riv and VGF and PVB will not be different - the guides would rather say " why yes, you can book a longhouse or the tower or the bungalows all at 11 months and all the other resorts at 7 months" vs " You can book the tower at 11 or the longhouses and bungalows at 7 the other resorts at 7 and I am required to have you sign this to make sure you understand that these points are restricted and only work on these 200 rooms if you sell them" I have not seen any evidence from RIV that restrictions speed up sales, in fact, most signs point to the opposite. Simple sells, while complicated terms make people overthink it and walk away.

As for the other people like me who own at PVB 1 - most own studio-sized contracts. If I wanted 1BR or 2 BR at PV2 I would need to add on and I would probably add on direct as the price difference will most likely be minimal for an extra 75 to 100 points vs the overinflated sold-out direct price of 250 for PVB. This is what is going on now with VGF - why buy small contracts resale for 175 when you can get direct for 198ish? Existing PVB owners will buy points.

Also everyone keeps falling into the " money lost " fallacy - 100% of the points will be sold by Disney for the tower - the only question is at what rate per point and what speed. RIV has not shown that restrictions speed up sales and they need a discount to sell.

They can sell the longhouses and bungalows like they do all the other rooms in the system!

“You have exclusive access to the tower rooms at 11 months but the great thing about DVC is you can trade into those at 7 months out”.

For someone new, both sound like very long timeframes. And they were able to sell CCV having to let buyers know all those BRV rooms were not able to be booked until 7 months..so it can be done.

New association and restrictions cut off resale points from the Poly tower..other than those grandfathered.

I just don’t see them doing all of this and then not making it a new association.

They have been working for 10 years already to differentiate direct vs resale. Where points can be used is the only true difference DVD has full control over as it’s part of the POS.

 

[Sandisw]

No, I don't agree with that statement or see evidence to support it. Disney is just like any US cooperation - they live and die quarter to quarter and the leadership will be changed if they have a few bad quarters. They don't care about resale owners staying in new resorts, they care about selling the points and they sell 100% of the points they offer for WDW resorts.

They do care about restrictions because that is the current system in place.

So, you can’t say they don’t care about restricting resale points since the POS expressly does just that.

That doesn’t mean they can’t change their minds, but the lack of removal of RIV restrictions at this point means someone in the company still believes it’s a good strategy and they have decided that you can have them and sell points if you use the correct pricing and incentives.

We shall see if they reverse course with VDH. If not, then it’s still on the table.

And yes, I know VDH is different because it’s west coast but it’s still part of DVC and this will be included in the multi site POS.

 

[lovethesun12]

Let’s not forget, though, that Disney is playing the long game. Their ultimate goal is to prevent resale owners from using resale points to stay in newly constructed resorts, which over time will funnel additional consumer money into buying direct. That’s no fallacy.

And I don’t think the pace of Riviera’s sales has anything to do with restriction complications. Not that I agree, but there are those that have issues with both its design and location. My guess is that restrictions are not a factor about which impulse buyers really care, since they’re not a part of that ”2%” to which you refer that debates it endlessly!

The thing is though, this is a newly constructed tower, not resort. Regardless of what they do, I still have access to all the exact same amenities (which is definitely the biggest factor in choosing a resort for us) as poly1 owners, so I would just be shut out of a hotel that has inferior studios anyway (I personally think they will be, in the same way VGF2 is). It is of course possible they will have the extra shower/sink etc, that's another debate, but I don't think they will.

For this reason, I really think it's more comparable to VGF2 than RIV. Honestly, while I absolutely loved our stay at VGF2, it solidified for me that I would rather stay at the original poly studios, just like I think I would prefer the original VGF1 studios.

 

[BeachClub2014]

My guess is that restrictions are not a factor about which impulse buyers really care, since they’re not a part of that ”2%” to which you refer that debates it endlessly!

What will be our next debate once DVD announces that the brand new, shiny Poly Tower is a new association with restrictions, which they will announce sooner or later?

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

What will be our next debate once DVD announces that the brand new, shiny Poly Tower is a new association with restrictions, which they will announce sooner or later?

I’m curious to know what will replace the 2042 resorts around Crescent Lake. BC2 anyone???

 

[SLThomas318]

I’m curious to know what will replace the 2042 resorts around Crescent Lake. BC2 anyone???

Resort studios at yacht club?!

 

[BeachClub2014]

I’m curious to know what will replace the 2042 resorts around Crescent Lake. BC2 anyone???

DVC Epcot Tower(s) will come online for sales in late 2041. It will contain a wide array of room choices, have a direct entrance into Epcot, and sell at a sizzling pace and price given the number of DVC families that will be looking to replace expired contracts from the 2042 resorts.

 

[Jlo85]

Regardless of what they do, I still have access to all the exact same amenities (which is definitely the biggest factor in choosing a resort for us).

Will they, though? For example, with pool hopping still prohibited, would Poly2 have access to the Volcano pool? And it is kind of interesting to think about if resale Poly1 owners would have access to new association Poly2 amenities and vice-versa. Seems like a legal issue to me. Will Poly2 be able to use the water taxi if they aren't paying dues for it? Will they be able to use the beach? Heck, isn't the monorail something we pay dues for?

 

[RoseGold]

There are pros and cons to both locations, but I still say the original DVC Poly studios' location is THE BEST at WDW Something for everyone.

IMO, the obvious Skyliner expansion is HS to Coronado (and future site north of Coronado) to TTC. If that happens, Poly will be even better than the best it is now.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

Yes, great that you love Poly! But you’re certainly not expressing the opinion of everyone else who owns there, who might be quite excited about booking the new tower.

I can only express my own opinion I too am exciting about booking the new tower... but I don't think it's accurate to assume that us Poly owners just wish we didn't have stay at Poly1, when that might not be the case. I would expect that Poly owners love the Poly and would be happy to stay at either Poly1 or Poly2 (I believe Poly1 has a location advantage). If it is one association, existing owners would likely NEED to buy more points because most Poly owners are staying in Poly studios and don't have one and two-bedroom's worth of points at Poly. Either way if existing Poly owners are interested in Poly 2 I believe they are very likely to buy MORE points. Disney wins again! Disney always wins.

 

[Sandisw]

Will they, though? For example, with pool hopping still prohibited, would Poly2 have access to the Volcano pool? And it is kind of interesting to think about if resale Poly1 owners would have access to new association Poly2 amenities and vice-versa. Seems like a legal issue to me. Will Poly2 be able to use the water taxi if they aren't paying dues for it?

The pools at Poly are not owned by DVC. They are part of the Poly Village Resort and PVB owners were given access to them as a right to use. They are not a declared element of the condo association. That is why the cost to maintain them is shared with the hotel…

The same situation exists with VGF with right to use the pools.

Regardless of association, this tower is being built at the hotel..which means it will be part of the complex and have access to everything that is there.

So, no, it wouldn’t be considered pool hopping to use any of the Poly current pools because those pools are part of the complex.

They have two options with the new pool. It can become a common element of the DVC resort, and thus is will be paid solely by the owners. In that case, the condo association controls the access and like BLT, it would most likely be limited to tower guests.

Or, it can be designated as a resort pool, like the others, with shared access and shared costs…but just now in control of the condo and not the hotel.

In terms of something like a water taxi? That would go under transportation and those are run and operated by WDW…in which we pay our share. They would not be part of the operation of the resort and so they would never become something solely part of the condo association.

Same with all the transportation, The POS gives us access to all services available to onsite guests and we are billed for our share of those costs based on occupancy percentages. So, yes, we pay to support the monorail, buses, etc, but we are not in charge of them, Those decisions reside eith Disney.

Poly Village Resort…the hotel… is expanding to add a second option for DVC owners…that we know…which means access to all the hotel currently has to offer,

Whether this becomes an additional DVC resort on that complex is what we are still waiting to here but that decision wont prohibit tower guests to access Poly amenities…

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

IMO, the obvious Skyliner expansion is HS to Coronado (and future site north of Coronado) to TTC. If that happens, Poly will be even better than the best it is now.

Bring it on!

 

[Jlo85]

Whether this becomes an additional DVC resort on that complex is what we are still waiting to here but that decision wont prohibit tower guests to access Poly amenities…

I guess my question is if Poly2 has access to everything Poly1 but not vice-versa, it seems like a legal issue to me. If Poly1 see no benefit (for example, decreased dues) and has less access to amenities they are paying dues for. I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like tortious interference to me.

 

[Genie+]

Today I learned about 3 similar looking words:

Torturous- waiting for VDH pricing
Tortuous- understanding all the differences RIV brought to DVC
Tortious- will Poly2 harm new or existing owners