political thread -- the Presbyterian church

[jennyanydots]

I find this very disturbing:

Dershowitz article


and from the
Hartman/Gellman article :

When the divestiture movement against Israel began on campuses and raised its ugly head at Harvard, President Lawrence Summers spoke to the entire Harvard community on Sept. 17, 2002, noting: "Anti-Semitism and views that are profoundly anti-Israeli have traditionally been the primary preserve of poorly educated right-wing populists; [now] profoundly anti-Israel views are increasingly finding support in progressive intellectual communities.


"Serious and thoughtful people are advocating and taking actions that are anti-Semitic in their effect, if not their intent."

Our brothers and sisters in faith, we do not believe that you are anti-Semitic, but we absolutely believe that your resolution was anti-Semitic "in its effect, if not in its intent." Repent of your sins and reach out to know the heart of the Jewish people. This reaching out has changed our lives for the good. We pray with all our heart and soul that it is not too late to change yours.

 

[CRB#33]

I am having a hard time finding a link to the actual resolution, so I will reserve comment on the first part of it.

As to the second part of it...actively converting Jewish people, I have to say that since I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, I have a duty by what is written in the Bible to spread that news. Christ commanded us to "Go out into all the world and spread the gospel to all His creatures." I cannot ignore that and neither can Christian churches. I'm sorry that Jewish people take it as people trying to put an end to their country. In our minds and hearts, if you do not know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior you will not have eternal life. Which is worse?

I believe that someday I will stand before God and He will ask me what I did with His son.

I need to act on that in this life as do all belivers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yes, it will be offensive to some. I truly wish it wasn't, believe me. In a Christian's heart, it is very difficult to keep quiet so as not to be offensive to those who do not believe. We are then in turn being offensive to God. Do you see the conflict? We can only try, in as inoffensive ways as possible to shine the Light of Jesus Christ to ALL of God's creatures. And that includes every human being.

 

[CRB#33]

As I look further into the Rabbi's scathing article, I will say that he is misleading or been mislead on many issues.

Is this the message you really want to send to the people Paul praises in Romans 9-11? The organized attempt to actively seek Jewish converts to Christianity after the Holocaust is obscene

He's missing the point here. Of course Paul praises the Jewish people. Never a doubt in the world that Paul was a strict Jew to begin with. He was also, almost singularly, the Jew most responsible for spreading the news that Jesus Christ was the son of God. I find his above quote rather ironic.

We ask you to imagine how you'd feel if one out of every three Presbyterians had been murdered during a four-year period just 60 years ago and then members of some other religion attempted to reduce your numbers further by seeking your conversion to their faith.

Reduce your numbers???? One of my churches fondest mission outreach programs is "Jews for Jesus" They come and preach in our church and we work together with their organization. These people observe all the Jewish holidays and traditions. They also believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. We in no way want to reduce the numbers of the Jewish people. We just want you to know the love and wonder of Jesus Christ.

And we also pray: How, our brothers and sisters in faith, did you come to hate Israel? What you did goes far beyond a reasoned, prayerful and loving dissent over one or another policy of the State of Israel.

This is just a completely irresponsible statement. Presbyterians do not hate Jews or Israel. They do their best not to hate anyone. That's just nuts. He's missing, intentionally, the point of Christianity.

Shouldn't this be titled "Religious thread?"

 

[auntpolly]

This is really bizarre! If anyone finds the original resolution, please post a link. All I am finding is the reaction to it.

I was born and raised in the Presbyterian church and, though I haven't been one for over 25 years, I don't remember them taking any bold political stands at all -- let alone as unbelievable as this one sounds. If this is for real, they've lost it; they really have!

 

[peachgirl]

I'm still reading up on this, but I found this link that seems to suggest this may not be true...

http://www.pcusa.org/ga216/

The 216th General Assembly approved part of an overture urging the Presbyterian Church (USA) to “re-examine and strengthen” the relationship between Christians and Jews, but rejected another part that would have cut off funding of future “Messianic congregations” until the study is finished.

 

[CRB#33]

Originally posted by peachgirl
I'm still reading up on this, but I found this link that seems to suggest this may not be true...

http://www.pcusa.org/ga216/

I don't think this is it.

I have no idea what resolutions the OP's links are talking about.

 

[peachgirl]

Ok, here's the actual resolution. It isn't an actual resolution to divest, but one that okays investigating the possibility.

I don't see anti-semitism here, simply a religous group voicing their opinion.

One I happen to disagree with, but this is just further proof imo for the separation of church and state to remain firm.

Sprry, but the link just won't work. Here's the text and I'll see if I can figure it out.


RICHMOND, July 2 — The 216th General Assembly approved several measures opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestine Friday, including a call for the corporate witness office of the Presbyterian Church (USA) to begin gathering data to support a selective divestment of holdings in multinational corporations doing business in Israel/Palestine.
Divestment is one of the strategies that U.S. churches used in the 1970s and '80s in a successful campaign to end apartheid in South Africa.

The vote was 431 to 62 to have the church's Mission Responsibility Through Investment Committee (MRTI) study the matter and make recommendations to the General Assembly Council (GAC).

When a handful of commissioners expressed reservations about the action, the Rev. Mitri Raheb, a Lutheran pastor from Bethlehem, an ecumenical guest at the Assembly, said divestment is important because it is a way for the churches to take direct action. For too long, he said, the churches have simply issued statements — and that is not enough.

“We have to send strong messages to such companies,” Raheb said, referring specifically to Caterpillar Inc., the American builder of the armored tractors and bulldozers the Israeli army uses to demolish Palestinian homes.

“Sisters and brothers, this is a moment of truth,” Raheb said.

The Rev. Victor Makari, the PC(USA)'s liaison to the Middle East, supported the divestment strategy, saying, “I think the issue of divestment is a very sensitive one with Israel. … If nothing else seems to have changed the policy of Israel toward Palestinians, we need to send a clear and strong message.”

The divestment action also calls for the United States to be an “honest, even-handed broker for peace” and calls for “more meaningful participation” in peace negotiations by Russia, German, France and others. It also encourages the U.S., Israeli and Palestinian governments to “lay aside arrogant political posturing and get on with forging negotiated compromises that open a path to peace.”

In other actions related to Israel, the Assembly voted by large margins to condemn Israel's construction of a “security wall” across the West Bank; disavow Christian Zionism as a legitimate theological stance and direct the denomination's Middle East and Interfaith Relations offices to develop resources on differences between fundamental Zionism and Reformed theology; and study the feasibility of sponsoring economic-development projects in Palestine and putting an action plan in place by 2005.

The actions on Israel were forwarded to the Assembly by the Peacemaking Committee.

 

[CRB#33]

link's not working for me.

 

[peachgirl]

I'm working on it, but I can't figure out why it won't link.

 

[auntpolly]

Peachgirl I had trouble with your link but used the first part of the address and came up with something -- not sure if we were looking at the same thing but I agree -- it looks like alot of people are way overreacting to this -- as far as I can tell so far. I don't see antisemitism in what I just read.

 

[CRB#33]

Here it is. Believe it or not, I'm off to church until 7:30. I'll look closely at this when I get home.


At the time the Presbytery of St. Augustine approved Item 12-01, support for the “Geneva Accord” urging Israel and the Palestinians to implement the Accord seemed a practicable way forward in light of the derailed “road map,” especially in light of action taken by the 215th General Assembly (2003) strongly urging Israeli and Palestinian leaders “to be serious, active, and diligent about seeking peace for their peoples; or, if they are unwilling or unable, to step down and make room for other leaders who will and can” (Resolution on Israel and Palestine: End the Occupation Now, Recommendation D, Minutes, 2003, Part I, p. 636.).



At this time, however, several months since the approval of the proposed item by said presbytery, the situation and the prospects for a negotiated just peace have so deteriorated that people in the region generally, and particularly the Palestinians, have been driven to the edge of despair and hopelessness. Therefore, the 216th General Assembly (2004) of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) does the following:



1. Confesses the sovereignty of God over all nations, states, governments, and peoples, acknowledging God’s supreme act of love for the whole world manifest in Jesus Christ so that by faith the world might not perish but be saved. In Christ, God has called us to show love, seek peace, and to pursue justice, so that the world might be transformed into a foretaste of God’s peaceable kingdom.



2. Continues to be inspired by the tenacity of hope of our Palestinian Christian partners in the face of ominous, cumulative gloom and foreboding; it affirms that God has not given us a spirit of timidity, nor have we been called to surrender hope to an attitude of despair.



3. Commends the Presbytery of St. Augustine on its concern for a just resolution of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and for moving the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) to persist in voicing this concern. The assembly, therefore, welcomes the possibilities for peace contained in the “Geneva Accord,” as a useful and practical approach. It would also be encouraged by other inspired initiatives that could advance the prospects of peace in the Middle East.



4. Reiterates and reaffirms the call of last year’s General Assembly on the Israeli government to “end the occupation now,” asserting that:



a. The occupation must end; it has proven to be at the root of evil acts committed against innocent people on both sides of the conflict.



b. The security of Israel and the Israeli people is inexorably dependent on making peace with their Palestinian neighbors, by negotiating and reaching a just and equitable solution to the conflict that respects international law, human rights, the sanctity of life, and dignity of persons, land, property, safety of home, freedom of movement, the rights of refugees to return to their homeland, the right of a people to determine their political future, and to live in peace and prosperity.



c. Horrific acts of violence and deadly attacks on innocent people, whether carried out by Palestinian “suicide bombers” or by the Israeli military, are abhorrent and inexcusable by all measures, and are a dead-end alternative to a negotiated settlement of the conflict.



d. The United States needs, now more than ever, to become an honest, even-handed broker for peace, and should review its approach to the problem, allowing more room for the more meaningful participation of other members of the U.N.-designated “Quartet” (the United States, Russia, Germany and France) and others;



e. The international community has an obligation to provide physical protection for those isolated by fear and/or by physical and psychological barriers, thus making space for the restoration of security and creating a climate for the resumption of negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians. We support the Palestinians’ persistent request to the United Nations to send a peacekeeping force.



5. Vigorously urges the U.S. government, the government of Israel, and the Palestinian leadership to move swiftly, and with resolve, to recognize that the only way out of this chronic and vicious impasse is to abandon all approaches that exacerbate further strife, lay aside arrogant political posturing, and get on with forging negotiated compromises that open a path to peace.



6. Endorses the letter sent on April 19, 2004, by the Stated Clerk, reiterating concerns of our denomination for Christian partners and their institutions that serve as agents of reconciliation and hope, as well as for their Palestinian and Israeli neighbors, in the Holy Land, in the framework of previous statements of the General Assembly.



7. Refers to Mission Responsibility Through Investment Committee (MRTI) with instructions to initiate a process of phased selective divestment in multinational corporations operating in Israel, in accordance to General Assembly policy on social investing, and to make appropriate recommendations to the General Assembly Council for action.



Recommendation


The Presbytery of St. Augustine respectfully overtures the 216th General Assembly (2004) to do the following:



1. Affirm support for the Geneva Accord and urge both sides to engage in negotiations to implement the accord.



2. Urge an end to the assassination policy of the Israel government and to Palestinian suicide bombings.



3. Urge the Congress to end all military aid to Israel until the occupation ends.



4. Urge the Congress to cease all loan guarantees for building or expanding settlements in Palestinian areas.



5. Call on our Board of Pensions to divest itself of investments in companies receiving one million dollars or more in profits per year from investments in Israel or that have invested one million dollars or more in Israel.



Rationale


In support of this overture, the Presbytery of St. Augustine observes the following:



1. The state of Israel has occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan heights since the Six Day War of 1967, and this occupation has resulted in great suffering for the 3.5 million Palestinians who live in the occupied territories.



2. The government of Israel has confiscated large areas in the West Bank to build settlements for Jews only, and these settlements are connected by roads restricted to settlers and the Israeli military.



3. Several thousand Palestinians have been killed during the second Intifada, which began in September of 2000. During this same Intifada, hundreds of Israeli citizens have been killed by suicide bombers.



4. The government of Israel has signed and ratified the Fourth Geneva convention that prohibits the use of collective punishment as represented by the imposition of closure, curfew, house demolitions, the transfer of parts of a conquering nation’s own civilian population into territories it occupies (a clear ban on settlements), and massive land expropriations. Virtually every element of Israel’s occupation violates a provision of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The General Assembly has called for an end to the occupation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem.



5. The government of Israel is currently building a “Separation Fence” that encircles several Palestinian villages on three sides, divides others in half, and reaches twelve miles into the West Bank in places.



6. The General Assembly has urged the Israeli government to end its expansionist policies of

a. confiscation of land and water resources and the building and enlarging of settlements,

b. collective punishment of Palestinians, such as is exercised through administrative detentions, demolition of homes, mass house imprisonment (“curfews”), uprooting olive trees, setting up road blocks and checkpoints, and other forms of harassment and humiliation (see Minutes, 2003, Part I, p. 635; Minutes, 2002, Part I, p. 732).



7. The General Assembly has supported United Nations resolutions affirming the right of Israel to exist within secure borders and the right of the Palestinians to self-determination, including the establishment of its own sovereign state and the right of return of Palestinian refugees (see Minutes, 2003, Part I, p. 635; Minutes, 2002, Part I, p. 732).



Advice and Counsel on Item 12-01 -- From the Advisory Committee on Social Witness Policy (ACSWP) and the Advocacy Committee for Racial Ethnic Concerns (ACREC).


Item 12-01 calls for the 216th General Assembly (2004) to support the Geneva Accord, urging Israel and Palestine to implement the Geneva Accord.



The Advisory Committee on Social Witness Policy (ACSWP) and the Advocacy Committee for Racial Ethnic Concerns (ACREC), in consultation with concerned entities of the General Assembly Council, advise that Item 12-01 be answered by approving the following alternate statement and recommendations:



“At the time the Presbytery of St. Augustine approved Item 12-01, support for the ‘Geneva Accord’ urging Israel and the Palestinians to implement the Accord seemed a practicable way forward in light of the derailed ‘road map,’ especially in light of action taken by the 215th General Assembly (2003) strongly urging Israeli and Palestinian leaders ‘to be serious, active, and diligent about seeking peace for their peoples; or, if they are unwilling or unable, to step down and make room for other leaders who will and can’ (Resolution on Israel and Palestine: End the Occupation Now, Recommendation D, Minutes, 2003, Part I, p. 636.).



“At this time, however, several months since the approval of the proposed item by said presbytery, the situation and the prospects for a negotiated just peace have so deteriorated that people in the region generally, and particularly the Palestinians, have been driven to the edge of despair and hopelessness. Therefore, the 216th General Assembly (2004) of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) does the following:



“1. Confesses the sovereignty of God over all nations, states, governments and peoples, acknowledging God’s supreme act of love for the whole world manifest in Jesus Christ so that by faith the world might not perish but be saved. In Christ, God has called us to show love, seek peace and to pursue justice so that the world might be transformed into a foretaste of God’s peaceable kingdom.



“2. Continues to be inspired by the tenacity of hope of our Palestinian Christian partners in the face of ominous, cumulative gloom and foreboding; it affirms that God has not given us a spirit of timidity, nor have we been called to surrender hope to an attitude of despair.



“3. Commends the Presbytery of St. Augustine on its concern for a just resolution of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and for moving the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) to persist in voicing this concern. The assembly, therefore, welcomes the possibilities for peace contained in the ‘Geneva Accord,’ as a useful and practical approach. It would also be encouraged by other inspired initiatives that could advance the prospects of peace in the Middle East.



“4. Reiterates and reaffirms the call of last year’s General Assembly on the Israeli government to ‘end the occupation now,’ asserting that:



“a. The occupation must end; it has proven to be at the root of evil acts committed against innocent people on both sides of the conflict.



“b. The security of Israel and the Israeli people is inexorably dependent on making peace with their Palestinian neighbors, by negotiating and reaching a just and equitable solution to the conflict that respects international law, human rights, the sanctity of life, and dignity of persons, land property, safety of home, freedom of movement, the rights of refugees to return to their homeland, the right of a people to determine their political future, and to live in peace and prosperity.



“c. Horrific acts of violence and deadly attacks on innocent people, whether carried out by Palestinian ‘suicide bombers’ or by the Israeli military, are abhorrent and inexcusable by all measures, and are a dead-end alternative to a negotiated settlement of the conflict.



“d. The policies and actions of the United States government have proven to hinder rather than promote a promised peace. No political power, however mighty, has the right to consign an entire people to such a hopelessly oppressive future as may be inherent in the Bush-Sharon plan articulated during the latter’s visit to Washington in mid April 2004. The United States needs, now more than ever, to become an honest, even-handed broker for peace, and should review its approach to the problem, allowing more room for the more meaningful participation of other members of the U.N.-designated “Quartet” (the United States, Russia, Germany and France) and others;



“e. The international community has an obligation to provide physical protection for those isolated by fear and/or by physical and psychological barriers, thus making space for the restoration of security and creating a climate for the resumption of negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians. We support the Palestinians’ persistent request to the United Nations to send a peacekeeping force.



“5. Vigorously urges the U.S. government, the government of Israel, and the Palestinian leadership to move swiftly, and with resolve, to recognize that the only way out of this chronic and vicious impasse is to abandon all approaches that exacerbate further strife, lay aside arrogant political posturing, and get on with forging negotiated compromises that open a path to peace.



“6. Endorses the letter sent on April 19, 2004, by the Stated Clerk, reiterating concerns of our denomination for Christian partners and their institutions that serve as agents of reconciliation and hope, as well as for their Palestinian and Israeli neighbors, in the Holy Land, in the framework of previous statements of the General Assembly.



“7. Finally, with respect to the recommendations in Item 12-01 calling on the Board of Pensions ‘to divest itself of investments in companies receiving one million dollars or more in profits per year from investments in Israel...etc.,’ the 216th General Assembly (2004) refers the proposal to the Mission Responsibility Through Investment Committee (MRTI) to initiate the process of phased selective divestment, in the framework of the assembly’s investment policy and stated positions on Israel and Palestine, and to make appropriate recommendations to the General Assembly Council for action.”

 

[peachgirl]

Ok...

For some reason it won't let you link to the actual site where this years resolutions are listed. So....

Go to:

http://www.pcusa.org/ga216/

Look towards the bottom of the page where it says " Looking for Assembly Decisions?"and click on "learn more". Do a search using Israel as the keyword, then go to #5 on the list.

I have no idea why it won't link.

 

[auntpolly]

I, too, need some time to look over this and I don't have it now --- I was supposed to be at my friend's house 10 minutes ago!

I look forward to hashing this out with you all later!