Points for Disney Collection 2002

[kem330]

In other words, Disney Collection is only a deal in low season

 

[Bumpy]

Lisa P.
You hit the nail on the head about it being about perception and expectations. I for one expected much more from Disney than this current gouge. This timeshare is marketed and sold as a PROGRAM with benefits of flexibility (From start to finish). It is what they use to offset the lack of actual ownership. They used a point based system which has dramarically failed at other timeshares and they still sold it.Why because of flexibility and the DISNEY name. Did I ever consider another timeshare NO- I bought Disney only because I trusted their name and they promised me a flexible program. The history of the point evaluations over the past ten years was a factor that I looked at when making my decision. No dramatic increases the guide proudly exclaimed and backed up with point charts. True to their word. Disney can no longer make this claim honestly anyway, and I can't help but wonder what other claims will go out the window as well. I was going to do an add on in two weeks while on vacation but my guide will not be able to make the same options available to me as when I purchased so I will not be buying any more points. I might even sell my membership out of distrust at this point.

 

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by Bumpy
I might even sell my membership out of distrust at this point.

Although I am angry and disappointed at the higher cost to stay in the disney collection resorts, I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face on this one.

Unless you bought your points to stay exclusively at disney collection resorts (which I don't think most people do, even with the old point levels it wouldn't be a great idea) then you are STILL getting what you paid for, and that disney CAN'T take away from you... you're protected by the contract you signed. Personally, 40 years of vacations at a place like the BWV is a good enough reason for me to not sell my membership in a fit of anger... it's definately something i'd regret later.

Lisa

 

[Terry S]

Well, I have been sitting here thinking about this. What I am coming up with is that I will probably buy less points than originally planned. I had hoped to by into DVC as basically a pre-paid vacation for the next 41 years since I am not the best person for saving for things. I would probably stay at my home resort at least every other year if not more. I had wanted the option to do the DCL and stay at some of the other on-property resorts and possibly go to Hawaii PRE-PAID. But, if this is not longer a GOOD VALUE for the option, what I think I will do is just buy less points and pay cash for the other trips. It is not what I had hoped for but I am old enough to realize I don't get everything I want in life and if something looks too good to be true, it usually is.

 

[normr]

I see Joe Black has already posted a DVC response which is the same one I got, but I just wanted to make sure with my e-mail message to DVC, that they know we aren't happy with this and other changes they may want to make similar to this, and I still plan to write a regular letter to DVC management so they are aware moves like this could easily damage their reputation.




Re: Increase in point cost for Disney Collection
Date:
Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:54:16 -0700
From:
Disney Vacation Club <members@disneyvacationclub.com>
To:
Norm Rechtman <normr@iname.com>




Hello Norm,

Although there is an increase in points for some hotels for some dates, there is
actually a decrease in some dates as well. For example, August 3, which is a
weekend day at the Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge changed from 71 Reservation
Points in 2001 to 56 Reservation Points in 2002. The points charts for the
Disney Collection, Concierge Collection and Adventurer Collection will be on the
DVC web site next week so you can see all the points for 2002.

Regards,
Susan

 

[Chuck S]

Another possibility is that 2002 is the 100 years of magic celebration, and Disney is hoping for and expecting huge crowds. By having such a big point increase the are hoping to have more rooms open for cash rental than to DVC members on points.

 

[sgtpet]

Cmon. Chuck.

The good days are unfortunately over. Be happy with what you have. With nearly all of the current inventory sold out, they Disney have the advantage. Nothing in this word ever comes back to where it was in the past. I was so close to buying and because of this I am out.

That is a shame.

 

[DVCDAVE]

CHUCK S-- I think that would be wishfull thinking on Disney's part, as the point chart did NOT change for the Millinium Celebration which was very successful.

 

[sgtdisney]

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally did not buy into the DVC as an investment. As time goes by the value will decrease due to the end of the lease approaching. A timeshare is never a good investment, or at least it is not meant to be one. I bought into the DVC in order to basically lock in a style of accomodation for 50 years at a resort that i truly love.

I have been a DVC member for almost 10 years now, and I have yet to use the Disney Collection once. I don't even think I have given it a passing thought. The only time I would probably consider it is when I go to Disneyland. Personally, I didn't buy into the DVC to stay at other non-DVC resorts. I like the DVC resorts and have never understood trading in more points for a smaller accomodation. This again, is just me. I am sure others found this to be a valuable feature. I do think that everyone is getting all in an uproar without seeing any official documentation from Disney itself. Until I get a new point chart from them, I will wait to pass judgement on their decision.

 

[DVCDAVE]

SGTDISNEY-- I am glad to hear you will be unaffected. I on the other hand was sold a package of 'flexibility' by my guide and the Disney marketing material. I have only been a member for one year, but I was glad to have the DC as an option when we were unable to get a DVC room for one of our days this past March. The DC makes a good safety net, on top of adding to the flexibility of the DVC package.

Apparently, I am not alone in my view point about the DC. The letters went out last Friday notifying many mambers who had booked a DC resort for 2002 with the actual point cost. Many assumed the 2002 point chart was similar to the prior 10 years. For the last few days it has been nearly impossible to reach MS as the phones have been jammed by these members trying to make other arrangemnts. We don't know how many are thanking MS for their generous point reductions, but clearly this demonstrates many do use the DC as an option.

 

[sgtdisney]

I am sorry that the changes with the DC may effect you. The important thing to remember is when you purchased into the DVC you purchased a real estate interest in your home resort. I don't recall anywhere in the contract that Disney was obligated to provide the Disney Collection and at a certain point structure. If your salesrep sold you the DVC and the DC as something that were interchangeable and a guaranteed thing, then you really should report them for improper selling practices. No where in my documents does it say the Disney Collection is a guaranteed thing. For all we know, at some point, they may pull the program entirely and there would be no recourse. Again, I restate, I think this is getting way to out of hand without official word from Disney at this point.

 

[Bumpy]

Lisa f.
I will sell a great deal of my membership because I have way to many points to stay at DVc resorts. I bought more points to have greater ability to take advavtage of the flexibility the program offered. GUESS WHAT that flexibility has gone out the window. I love Disney but I also know that I will get pretty sick of staying in BWV, OKW WLV over the next fourty years. I love those resorts but wanted to be able to use the program to also enjoy the newest resorts as they emerge. How is everyone going to feel if they build the Venecian Resort and it costs us a rediculous amount to exchange there and so on. If the word flexibilty was not wriiten all over the documentation and spued by guides every other word than I would not have bought . I trusted that Disney would never go back on its word and in my eyes they have! (not Legally of course their too smart for that). Now, that breach of trust in my eyes is what is prompting me to consider trashing the whole thing. I now don't believe they will keep their word about other parts of the membership that I enjoy. What if as the resorts age and people get sick of them there is only 10 years left no flexibility to stay anywhere else and a great deal of people stop paying to remain in the program. They have little to incentive to keep paying high maintanance fees what will Disney do. We I am sure have all said to ourselves Disney wont let the resorts go down after all its Disney! I don't trust that anymore.

P.S. Disclaimer: If the point charts come out and are not as bad as reported here so far- I take back everything I just said!

 

[DownNeckBoy]

I have been truly fascinated by the numerous postings concerning the change in the points structure for 2002. Let me first state that I belong to the faction that considers a stay outside of the DVC to be an unwise utilization of your points. I understand the flexibility issue but still belive that you are almost always better off using an AP rate for a non-DVC resort and paying cash rather than using your points. That having been said, the rise in points cited for the marathon weekend did seem extreme and unfair to me, so I called my guide and amde him aware of the discussion.

He was surprised by the rise in points as well and promised to investigate and get back to me. True to his word, he called me back in fifteen minutes. His explanation is that the points have been adjusted for "seasonality" as well as to allow for different room categories. This change is supposed to better reflect the actual rates paid for the various hotels throughout the year.

He also gave me a few examples to pass along:

Beach Club 7-01 327 points
7-02 258 points

Grand Floridian April 2001 474 points
April 2002 387 points

AKL October 2001 217 points
October 2002 267 points

The point is that not all hotels are going to increase by the percentages that prompted the initial post. I know that it is no consolation to Covman or mkkim, but it is better than what was being theorized on this forum.

My guide also advised that the point charts should be on the website by next week at the latest. Once that is done, I'm sure there will be further discussion, but at least there will be something for all to review before deciding to chuck your investment in the DVC and discouraging potential members.

I hope this has been of some help to all of you.

 

[Bumpy]

Downneckboy,
You are too rational! LOL



Nomr, Just curious about the Royal Garden Hotel that you stayed at. I exchanged some points for that hotel for this dec. Did you enjoy your stay there? any helpful tips about London? thanks in advance!


DVCDAVE, I think we bought our memberships for pretty much the same reasons. No one is disputing the value of DVC resorts but that was not all the program had to offer and I would not have paid the HIGH price to lease a property even if it is Disney. Iwas offered more and expected more as you did! I agreee with you on this one

 

[Covman]

Thanks for the updated DownNeckBoy.

I as stated earlier (about 5 pages ago ), I was hoping that my typical bad luck hit right on one of the highest increases possible and it sounds like I did. I agree that once we see the entire list we can better decipher what has been done.

Let me also note that I have also historically viewed the DC as an expensive use of points and only booked this particular ressie as a one-time special treat.

Once I see the entire point sheet, I will join in the discussion of pros and cons.

Meanwhile I still need to finalize my accomodations for the marathon, so I'll jump back in later.

 

[Dean]

Interestingly enough, I just did the quick math and i'm not sure how often this holds, but it seems like Disney has pretty much decided that points are worth $5/point.

and that's been about it all along when you look at most discounted prices like cruises, DC and CC. DCL is an exception just because the prices are so high, if you compare to other similar quality cruises, it's still around $5 pp.

The only reason I can think of is if DVC has negotiated to "pay" disney full rack rate on all of their rooms and only gets back some percentage of whatever disney can rent the equivalent DVC room for.

And that's what they do. They get like a 10% discount on rack rates and I'm sure WDW takes a cut of any rentals in addition to the housecleaning fees.

If Disney did something to indicate that this move was a "temporary tightening of the belt" to deal with the softening economy, it would be one thing. Instead it's perceived as disney basically cutting out one element of flexiblity in the program... Do you think the points for DC have a chance of going back down again?

No, at least not much and not quickly.

I could bet that they will raise the non Disney collection points and then eventually make it impossible or very costly to stay at a non home DVC resort.

Can't do this. Not because of the commitment to other owners, but because of the commitment to the current owners at the other resorts. They could do it at the new resorts that aren't selling yet. They could even double the points cost and then reduce the price pp to compensate if they wanted though I don't think they'll do it that way. Count on BC and then EP to be much higher per unit than BW/WL.

While it remains TRUE that the benefit is still there, the SPIRIT of it is NOT.

It's always been that way for most of us so this will not change the habits of most members. I suspect most members don't use the program. I'd be curious as to what percentage of points in the last couple of years have gone to the DVC resort vs the other options broken down by type (DC, DCL, CC, II) but would be it's far less than 5%.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Lisa P.
Posted by Dean: Since DVC rooms should increase in price with the other WDW hotels, the price shouldn't go up at all "to stay the same". Inflation between resorts should cancel out and the points should stay the same.

Except that DVC's maint fees only rise with inflation. Other WDW resort hotel rates increase from a combination of inflation and increased profit margin for the corporation (and ultimately, the stockholders). Even in slower years when they've offered huge discount deals at Disney hotels, they've still raised their rack rates faster than inflation.

DVC actually pays the other resorts cash, a predetermined discounted rack rate. Probably more than anyone else pays at that resort the entire year.

Maybe more, maybe less. DVC may only be considering the maintenance fees they receive on those points. Perhaps, if that's true, a Disney hotel room costing 70 points would (in DVC's perspective) only cost the DVC'er $210-$280 with no hotel room taxes. They may still see that as a good deal at a deluxe, especially GF. If this is the way they are looking at it, I wonder if the Concierge Collection will be similarly affected at some point soon.

While DVC's fees will only rise with inflation, I suspect that the rooms at the other DVC resorts will do the same. Regardless, the increase in value of the room should match the increase with similar properties. Though I don't consider OKW a moderate by any stretch, I suspect that's where it competes for rentals, while BW would compete with Deluxe properties and WL somewhere in between.

Lisa, I've discussed many of these points with Matt Gibbs when he was a VP. DVC does pay a discounted rack rate, at the time it was about 10%. They must negotiate that at the beginning of the year and pay cash for the rooms. They then rent out the points they get and use that to pay for the rooms. Since there are currently more discounts than ever, DVC will be paying a rack rate and getting a discounted rate in return.

 

[Dean]

And even if DVC rentals are at the one percent level, you don't think that Disney would vehemently protect that interest?

Laura, I don't think for a second that raising the points for DC is related to anything other than DVC needs to get enough cash from renting the points to pay for the rental of the destination resort. If rental prices or percentages are down, it will take more points to generage the same income. I can't even fathom a correlation with a change in the DC and a member renting out DVCj, even if it were 50% of the points in question. I think to say that member rentals were even taken into account with an increase in the DC points is giving Disney too much credit for attention to detail. DVC sets the points that are charged, not WDW in general. The only contributing factor from WDW is the cost of the rooms in $$$$.

 

[kem330]

Downneck thanks for the report. What disturbs me about all the DVC responses is all the reductions are in low season. April next year is after Easter. July and August of this year turned out to be low attendance times. It's not that I expect it to be given away at high season. I can understand that this year, Jan 1 and 2 may be busier than normal. But the 12/30 and 12/31/01 rates at YC are 48/night. Going up to 60 seems a little extreme after New Years day. And going from 22 this year to 60 this coming Jan quite extreme! I feel like they are throwing us crumbs with these comparisons. There's no proportion to raising 200% at high season and lowering other times by 10- 20%. Yes I believe we need to see the whole picture, but I still don't understand how it will change the fact that on some days in Jan points increased 60 - 200%. And why are we being berated for wanting to use the exchange? As previously stated, 41 years at the same place can get monotonous to some people. We should all be concerned with the erosion of benefits, whether we use them or not. Remember, there are no guarantees that you will be able to exchange between DVC resorts either.

 

[chris1gill]

No problem here DVCDAVE, call up Shontell at the Timeshare store & she'll come pretty close to getting you 70.00 per point, selling your contract, so you to can run....

I think this is a bunch of hype about a problem that MOST DVC'ers will never have a problem with.... I have my 41 years of vacations at BWV's, and let me tell you I'm more than happy to have it!!!

Originally posted by DVCDAVE
Honestly, knowing what I know now, and Disney's LACK of honesty and forthrightness, I wouldn't buy DVC. I wish I never bought DVC. Frankly, I paid $67 per point, and I don't even think it is worth half that now that they just about did away with any possibility of doing a Disney Collection exchange.

Don't walk away from DVC, RUN !!!!