Points for Disney Collection 2002

[Dean]

Since DVC rooms should increase in price with the other WDW hotels, the price shouldn't go up at all "to stay the same". Inflation between resorts should cancel out and the points should stay the same. With an increase in points for DC and DCL a program that already had little value is gone. At a time when the usage is less, seems they're shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Disney Adventurer]

I am in the process of buying a resale so am not yet a DVC member and don't yet have access to MS. But I was planning a trip over X-Mas and planning on staying at the Poly and was looking up required points. Again don't have access to any "official" Disney info but somehow on one of the points calculators, can't remember which one, I got a figure of 30 pts/weekday for January 1, 2 at the Poly. By the 2001 chart this is adventure season and was 22 pts. I thought maybe the season had changed for the first part of January, but this seems to support a points increase (36%). Again not 100% sure where I got that number but I've got it written down in my plan.

 

[normr]

A 60% increase in points cost for a stay in the Disney Collection Hotels is totally unacceptable, this program has been a large selling point, IMHO all this is going to do is hurt DVC sales in the long run because people will see that they no longer have that safety valve when they can't get reservations at a DVC unit, and yes you did pay a little more for this program, but a 60% jump kills the idea just as quick as ending it, I think someone would rather bank their points than to waste them by doing the Disney collection.

These Disney bean counters once again are out of control, maybe they need to quit buying TV networks and internet companies instead. Walts turning over in his grave a little more I think.

 

[Mickbee]

Isn't the DVC owned by the parent Disney company?

It sort of sounds a bit unethical that they are punishing their own kids. Isn't there anything in our agreement that specifically addresses this type of increase/issue? The increases will have a significant cost impact to the members and hamper the flexibility of the program, therefore making it far less appealing to current and future members. Or is that the plan? Perhaps this will be a selling point of the much speculated DVC II; "Buy DVC II, you are guaranteed only a X% increase per year on the rooms and cruises". It would add benefit to a new program with only one resort when the well established proven multi-resort existing plan is the direct competition. When the three selling resorts sell out, DVC II would be a direct competitor with us and Disney would do what they could to ensure they got their sales and/or rentals prior to us. Or contracts say it all over them "Compete with Disney and we will squash you like a grape"

I really don't have a strong desire to stay in the non-DVC rooms, BUT I asked my guide this specific question regarding Disney property and the DCL prior to purchasing for the simple fact of the flexibility when there is lack of DVC rooms. He indicated that they wouldn't increase points in such a manner because they would be hurting the program. I asked him this question because we were stays at the Coronado Springs and the week day points were the same as the rack rate and the weekends points were more than the rack rate. I couldn't see how this would be inflation proof with a rate above rack.

The cruise was certainly a great selling point. Now I hear the points are increasing on them as well and cash is a better solution? Another conversation...I realize it is a "sales" presentation. Though laid back and friendly, sometime things may not be exactly as they appear.

It would seem that the state of Florida would have some sort of regulations governing against such radical increases.

If Disney's reservation rate is down 19%, perhaps they should have projected their build rate factoring in the roller coaster effect of the economy. Have they saturated their property?

RE renting; This is a risk that Disney should have factored in from the inception of DVC. They have expanded the program and have over 50,000 members. Didn't they expect a saturation of point renting? Perhaps the bean counters and business developers drank decaf that morning...

This is just a bunch of questions to ponder. Hopefully this is just a specific week and this speculation is not valid. When will they release the charts for 2002? If they did make a radical change, wouldn't they contact the members to try and mitigate some of the problems in advance? Is that Disney's style or do they just drop things in your lap?

Sorry to hear your points have increased so much. Let your wife know the situation. Perhaps she would prefer to stay in a DVC resort after weighing the point cost associated with it. Regardless, don't let it spoil your time together.

Best of luck in the marathon!!


Now I must "run" because I board a plane in two hours for VWL!

 

[Dean]

The only protection from increase of points is at your home resort, the one you own at. No promise that even new resorts will be in the club. The DCL, CC, DC, etc are simply add on programs that could vanish tomorrow. They have never had good value, simply gave us an option.

This would not come under any regulations and certainly not the timeshare regulations as far as FL is concerned. I believe DVC did factor in the rentals initially and their interpretation that it wasn't enough of a problem to fool with. If you read the POS, I think you'll get that message. They put only enough info to protect them from lawsuits and no more.

 

[mkkim]

Just replied to a previous thread on Disney Collection.

In short... we made ressies for May of 2002 Sun - Thurs at the Poly. Thought I would be spending around 120pts.... We'll how does 176 sound?!!!! Yes, I received the confirmation today. Now the question.... Can I cancel this reservation and if so do my pts stay in the Disney Collection bank. Can I reallocate them to my home resort of VWL? I am new to DVC and haven't even made my first trip. I am very upset about how many pts are being taken up for this trip next May.

Any advice? Thank You!!!!

 

[tinkandme]

Covman,
You started something very interesting!
I'll wait to see how this works out, before I judge.
However, I just want to say BEST OF LUCK!!
Running a marathon WOW, I hope it all pays off for you,
all your training, and the things you have had to "put off" for the time being to train......you are admired!
Please re-post and let us know how you did.

TinkandMe

 

[ripleysmom]

Well mkkim, considering the fact that points have increased so dramatically I would MS would give you your points back without a problem. If they don't I would speak to a supervisor.

 

[KLR-wlv]

I just joined in April and flexibility was a big reason to choose DVC. I wondered then, however, if the points needed for DC and CC would increase out of control to make that part of the program useless, and it seems to be happening. DVC cannot keep selling itself with cost increases, point increases and a dwindling number of years.

You would think "they" would understand that the folks who joined DVC are some of their most loyal customers who come repeatedly to the world, without ticket discounts, and spend lots of money on food and "stuff". To make a visit more restrictive is plain stupid.

The other thing which is a problem is this will most likely make reservations at DVC resorts more difficult since there will essentially be only one place to use your points - your home resort.

KLR

 

[LauraS]

I agree with KLR that this new phenomenon will make it even more difficult to get ressies at DVC resorts. What a bummer. Disney is pricing us out of the DC and DCL with these dramatic rises in point costs. I really do think that this will hurt them in future sales at BCV. Disney is pretty much saying "hope you like your home resort.....because that's where you'll be staying for the most part". Flexibility is no longer a selling point. Someone posted recently that they were interested in buying points primarily for using them on the DCL. I hope that person is reading this thread.

I think that the rental of points by DVC members has become a nuisance that Disney can no longer ignore. I recognize that right now that the 2001 Disney Resort rack rates can't be beat by point rentals at $10 per point, but if Disney raises their 2002 rack rates and leaves the DC point schedule alone, I believe that it's too close for comfort for them. So now they've raised them enough to make it absolutely cost prohibitive to rent points and beat the Disney rack rates. Disney also slashed the DVC home resort rack rates with specials that also rival the savings that renters have gotten in the past. Didn't I read something about a two bedroom at OKW for 400 and something a night during Peak Season? Well, that's pretty darn good. I understand that they only have 4% cash rooms, but they'll want to fill all of that space first and prevent DVC rentals from spilling into their deluxe resorts. All folks who are renting points from DVC members will be locked into staying at DVC resorts. And so will those of us who are members.

It's one thing to rent points that you absolutely can't use, but I think that it has become much more prevalent to say use 2/3 of your points, and rent out the rest to cover your dues for the year. Or, if you're having a tough year financially, to just rent them all out for the year so that you don't have to sell your membership. With a slagging economy, and Disney seeing a dramatic drop in occupancy, they are most certainly worried about point rentals, especially during peak season when they need their hotels filled to capacity.

I just hope that anyone looking at a resale, or anyone contemplating buying through Disney at VWL understand that the only way DVC is a good value is when you stay at the DVC home resorts. Don't be fooled by those glossy photos of the GF or the Poly in the brochure. And the "good value" part, well that doesn't necessarily include the BCV because we haven't seen the point schedule for that new DVC resort yet. With this dramatic jump in points at the Disney resorts, it makes me wonder what the point schedule will look like at BCV.

Laura

 

[JimGarth]

mkkim-

How were you able to make reservations for the Poly next May? It isn't the 7 month window yet. We wanted to do the same thing, but have to wait until November.

Jim

 

[PamOKW]

Jim,

To book a non-DVC resort you don't have to wait until 7 months. You can book 11 months out. So, give a call but be prepared for sticker shock.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by LauraS
I think that the rental of points by DVC members has become a nuisance that Disney can no longer ignore.

Laura

Laura, I'm curious as to the origin of this statement. I've heard absolutely nothing from Disney or DVC about rentals. The only discussion I've seen about it is on this site and the DVCtalk email list. Obviously there is no hard data to go by but I wouldn't think DCV would even think about rentals unless we're talking around 5% of the points used. At this point I would be extremely surprised if it even approaches 1%. Plus there's really nothing that DVC could do, even if they wanted to. Legally, they couldn't even enforce a "commercial use" ban other than preventing use of protected emblems and the like.

I don't think WDW has changed their rack rates though they are offering a lot of specials lately.

 

[kem330]

I thought Covman had it bad. We've been thinking we would use our points at Y or BC if our waitlist doesn't clear for NY's. Well look at these numbers:
Yacht and Beach Club:
12/30/01 and 12/31/01: 48 pts/night (2001 rates)
1/01/02 and 01/02/02: SV: 60 / WV:70 / Concierge: 96/night

Last years cost for same dates: (Jan 1 and 2): 22 points/night.

This was a major reason we bought DVC- the flexibility of being able to trade into hotels- what a mistake!! 200% increase!!! Might as well rent those points at $10 each and pay cash. Of course Disney's taken care of that by cutting hotel prices, making it harder to rent.

 

[vernon]

Dean I agree with you that the "inflation" value between DVC rooms and the other WDW hotels SHOULD match, there is no reason why the increase should be so marked. Indeed my DVC rep told me EXACTLY that, in his opinion the rates for Disney hotels is unlikely to go up much because the hotels are working on the differential between the resorts.
IMHO they're trying to scalp us and IF they find a drop in DVC bookings for WDW hotels AT A TIME BOOKINGS ARE dropping as well, they will rethink. I can't see how they can lose money on DVC trades, they just think they can extract a little more.

I don't agree however that the ONLY resort that we can guarantee the points cost is our home resort. It is in theory possible to change the 7/11 month window BUT this needs to be voted through the board, IMHO if they try to do that ON TOP OF the higher rates for WDW hotels AND the cruise there is going to be hell to play. If all the individual part of the DVC , as they exist at this moment, are tied to their perspective current "points per year per unit" total ( which they legally are) , the only change can be the 7/11 window. They can try to mess with the window, they can't alter the points schedule.

Again I come back to the point , the board are there to protect the interests of the owners of DVC, while Disney owned a large share of the inventory they could use their muscle, as that share decreases if they try to start shoving the owners around they are going to find their board is replaced by one that is more in tune with the masses. I REALLY don't think Disney wants hostile owners or an inflexible board.

 

[PamOKW]

Hmmm....I'm not liking this three levels of points. I do like the option to book Concierge but, in the past, DVC members on points were almost always given the equivalent of a waterview room. Now, we are paying more points for a standard view?

I don't see how they can issue this point schedule without some sort of explanation. It just seems bizarre to have such a dramatic increase in one year.

The 22 points for Y&B is equivalent to a weekday 2-bedroom at OKW. To raise the points to 60/70 points is roughly 3 2-bedrooms. That is absurd. Concierge at 96/night is insane -- heck a GV at OKW is only 36 points!!!

I could see "possibly" raising points to be equivalent to the WLV/BWV but this is just nuts. Unless....these are equivalent to the points at BCV and the EPV?

 

[CarolMN]

IMHO, increasing the points required for the Disney Collection hotels and the CC may actually be in the best interests of the majority of DVC members. My assumption is that most of us would rather have our annual dues stay the same or decrease.

When a DVC member uses points to stay at a non-DVC WDW resort (or to take a cruise), DVC transfers the agreed upon cash out of DVC to the hotel (or to DCL). To recover the $$ going outside the DVC system, the equivalent room(s) are rented for cash. We all know that this year, WDW hotel occupancy is down and Disney has been offering many more discounted rooms than in years past. If DVC rooms (that need to be rented for cash) are going vacant or for deeply discounted rates, someone is stuck with the deficit. For DVC resorts, I think the "stuckee" is us DVC members. If the deficit is large enough, DVC will need to make it up somehow - i.e., increasing our dues.

While the opportunity to use points at non-DVC hotels is a nice perk, I 'm not excited about subsidizing those that do via higher dues. I'd rather see the points increase to discourage use of this perk and/or to increase the odds of DVC recovering the $$ flowing out of the system for this purpose. When the demand for on-site hotel rooms is strong, DVC has a very good chance of renting out the DVC accomodations at a price that can cover the outlay. When demand for those hotel rooms is not strong, DVC doesn't have a good enough chance of recovering the $$. The economics of the Disney Collection perk don't work if the non-DVC resort gets a "sure thing" and DVC gets an empty room.


I think the DC point increase has more to do with the lower hotel occupancies and the economy than it has to do with renting or Disney making more money at our expense. If my understanding is correct, the only real profit Disney makes from a DVC property (after it's sold out, of course) is the management fee for running the resort (paid for by our dues) and from renting the 4% it retains.

Again, JMHO. Yours may be different.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by vernon
I don't agree however that the ONLY resort that we can guarantee the points cost is our home resort. It is in theory possible to change the 7/11 month window BUT this needs to be voted through the board, IMHO if they try to do that ON TOP OF the higher rates for WDW hotels AND the cruise there is going to be hell to play. If all the individual part of the DVC , as they exist at this moment, are tied to their perspective current "points per year per unit" total ( which they legally are) , the only change can be the 7/11 window. They can try to mess with the window, they can't alter the points schedule.

I was more referring to new resorts, not already existing ones. With current resorts, the points costs are protected by default because of the commitment to the owners at that resort but not because of commitments to other resort owners. It sounds like we are mostly in agreement on these issues, other than the possibility of DVC I vs II or whatever we want to call it. Ask your guide about that one, I bet they tell you it would not be a problem. I've preached all along not to count on things like the DC, DCL, CC, etc; just like I preached to Marriott owners about the reward points and most of them didn't listen either and now many are sorry.

I was talking to a coworker who is also a DVC owners. She fees that DVC must offer a major incentive like free golf to sell the new resort, even if it does go for 50 years. She too feels the end date will not be 2042.

While I have a lot of faith in DVC and Disney in general, it is just plain suicide to bank on items that could dramatically change tomorrow. Much like buying exactly the number of points you need for an exact type of stay, just stupid if you have a choice.

 

[kem330]

I'm really confused here- by requiring higher points for the resorts, doesn't that mean that dvc has to pay more for you to transfer? Doesn't that make it harder for them to recoup their expense? Or is it the other way around? Does it mean that dvc still pays the same to the resorts, but keeps more of our points to rent out?

 

[DVCDAVE]

We can not declare war, SO, I think it is time for a boycott of the Disney Collection !!! Easy enough, and painless. Who in their right mine would use it any way. Also, we should start more threads on this subject too. We all know that Disney DVC monitors these boards, AND so do a LOT of prospective new customers !!!!! The more we don't let this subject die, the more they get hurt. Time for some response onour part other than sitting silent.