PM EMH drops from THREE Hours to TWO Hours

[stitchrulz]

This is very true. The majority of the people who visit Disney World do not keep coming back year after year. Its a trip maybe every few years, if that. Dropping 1 hour from evening EMH will make very little difference to this group. Many will not even know what they're missing.

Agreed, and it seems Disney continues to make a clear choice. If it were "just" this one thing, it would be different, but it's like the hits just keep coming. As with many other areas of life now, loyalty apparently doesn't count for much. What they lose with we disenchanted oldsters, they figure they can make up in volume. I totally get that Disney is a business, etc., but there does come a tipping point, and that's a decision each family will make for itself. We haven't gone in a couple of years, primarily because our last few trips didn't seem to have that same special spark. We're still debating whether to give it another try this year or not.

As far as venturing off-property, yes, there is a lot to do outside of Disney, but being able to do just about everything you want on-property via Disney transport was a big draw. We drive down from Ohio and loved the fact that we could park our car at check-in and not get back in it until time to leave.

 

[Cdn Friends of Pooh]

I have done a bit of "investigative research" (and put a lot of thought into this) and came up with this article about the actual effect of the reduction of Evening EMH. Let me know if you disagree with me about any of it or you think there is something I need to add. I really want to hear your suggestions and opinions. Comment on this thread, PM me, or email me at disneyparksplanning@aol.com! Here's the link:

http://www.disneyparksplanning.com/eveningextramagichour.htm

Well written!!

 

[Cafeen]

I am confident that Disney knows what % of WDW resort guests actually use the third hour and as others have stated this is clearly a cost benefit analysis. If only a few percentage of the WDW resort guests are using the last hour then as a business I would pull back and use my money for other areas such as next-gen infrastructure, fantasyland expansion, etc.
Also for those guests that are shouting they will stay off site now due to this, I am sure Disney has a long term plan, including preferred x-pass for resort guests which will make you reconsider saying off-site.

Agree. If that 3rd hour was worth it, it wouldn't be going.

One hour less park time is not a big enough reason for me to stay offsite - I don't go only for the EMH/FPs/Napkins yadda yadda yadda, I go for bigger reasons than that

While I do agree with both of these from a financial perspective, as a guest who enjoys that last hour, it still stinks .

Coupled with all the other recent (and less than recent) cutbacks and changes, I also agree that it seems they are sacrificing the enjoyment of their more frequent guests in favor of infrequent and/or first timers. After all, they do likely make much less money per trip on the frequent/knowledgeable ones...

Stuff like the monorail cutbacks (how are those repairs going btw?), Dining Plans being increased so that it takes a degree in economics to make it work for you (or, just a really big spreadsheet ), decreasing the gap between adult and child APs, FP enforcement, less "other" stuff to do (PI, etc), and reduction of discounts all point to reducing the cost to value ratio of more frequent guests who will know better (in the case of the monorail, FPs, and other stuff and this EMH change) or know more about the discounts and how to work the financial side of their trips (room discounts are decreasing, Dining Plan increases making them money losers unless you actually plan them out, and QS almost impossible to even break even on) (the AP changes kinda stand on their own). The maintenance and CM issues can even be part of this, as first timers and infrequent visitors may be less likely to notice them.

Now, will I stop going altogether? Doubtful. This year's trip is obviously on, and future trips will depend on how it goes (but likely next year with family will go anyway). But if they are less enjoyable, then I'd be less likely to take lengthier trips and/or as pricey trips. After all, why bother making a good experience for me as a solo adult who works to get the discounts and make the dining work, when they could fill the same room, at full price, with a family that will buy the dining plan and lose a couple hundred dollars on it because they bought into the misleading advertising and think that everything is wonderful and perfect?

Wow. I'm cynical tonight.

 

[WaltD4Me]

I can honestly say that we stay on-site at Disneyworld on every trip because we are DVC members but not all my money stays at Disney World. I rent a vehicle every time. I won't eat on site (their food isn't as tasty as it use to be and with their prices as high as they are, it's not worth it). When the parks close up early, I go to Universal Studios (City Walk), anything is better then going to bed at 9pm. I would go to DTD but the only thing to do there is shop and I dont need to shop 24/7.
Things have been changing at Disney for a long time and it isnt for the better. Maybe one day the big wigs in Disney will see that happy customers are returning customers. Returning customers end up as Disney addicts. Disney Addicts end up coming back 5 times a year WITH FRIENDS.
Keep taking everything away and the Disney Addicts won't return.

As a Disney Addict it pains me to say that Disney does not care as much about us addicts as we would like. Or as much as we deserve. Disney looooooooves the first time visitors or the every 3-5 years people. They don't know what they are missing (like we do) they don't complain about things that aren't there anymore or prices that are higher or food that isn't as good. They don't know about any of that stuff and on average they spend more in park money than we addicts do. First time visitors make up 70% of the guests at WDW on any given day...of course Disney wants them to come back, but if they don't, someone else is waiting to fill their spot and Disney knows it. I know I sound very cynical, but in reality, we are a very small minority in the Disney scheme of things. They know many fans will be upset, but they also know many, many more coming next year won't even know an hour was cut. They calculated the risk and reaction versus the reward and decided it was worth it. Doesn't surprise me, not these days at least.

 

[Mickeyrella]

The following information begins in January, 2013.



The lowering of service at a new higher price continues.
This will undoubtedly make PM EMH a much busier and less attractive choice.

I wonder if this will be the case only in "low crowd" seasons or is it the new PM EMH norm.


.

Well this really sucks, the only reason we did 1-day park hopping, is because we always took advantage of MK open until 4am.

 

[letsgoagainsoon]

I just said to DH the other day, if it weren't for EMH I would really consider staying off-site, due to the rising costs. May seriously consider that for next trip...

 

[MissPrice]

I'm so sad to hear this news, however I'm glad that Disney is not doing away with all the EMH's...I wrote them an E-mail, here is the address :

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

 

[Phatoomch]

While I do agree with both of these from a financial perspective, as a guest who enjoys that last hour, it still stinks .

It absolutely stinks. But I got over it quickly

Coupled with all the other recent (and less than recent) cutbacks and changes, I also agree that it seems they are sacrificing the enjoyment of their more frequent guests in favor of infrequent and/or first timers. After all, they do likely make much less money per trip on the frequent/knowledgeable ones...

You have to decide which way to go and cutting things like napkins & 1 hour of time isn't going to get noticed by the majority. Bit like if I had to, I'd rather upset my Dad as I only have to deal with him. If I upset my Mum I gotta deal with the whole bloody family

Those small things will make big savings and (hopefully) as things change and evolve in our economic shift, those savings will become positive changes in the future.

Wow. I'm cynical tonight.

But sometimes that can be cleansing in a weird kinda way

 

[mariamouse]

I have done a bit of "investigative research" (and put a lot of thought into this) and came up with this article about the actual effect of the reduction of Evening EMH. Let me know if you disagree with me about any of it or you think there is something I need to add. I really want to hear your suggestions and opinions. Comment on this thread, PM me, or email me at disneyparksplanning@aol.com! Here's the link:

http://www.disneyparksplanning.com/eveningextramagichour.htm

Thanks for the insightful post.

Just curious, though-- when you say that the MK is open until 10pm on Jan 20th, do you mean that it is open that late with or without the EMH hours? I have only seen the typical 8pm closing time for that day on Jan 2013 calendars so far, so assume that the 10pm closing time you mentioned includes the two additional EMH hours. Just wanted to make sure, though, since I would LOVE to be wrong and hear that it closes at 12am instead.

 

[maganda]

While I do agree with both of these from a financial perspective, as a guest who enjoys that last hour, it still stinks .

Coupled with all the other recent (and less than recent) cutbacks and changes, I also agree that it seems they are sacrificing the enjoyment of their more frequent guests in favor of infrequent and/or first timers. After all, they do likely make much less money per trip on the frequent/knowledgeable ones...

Stuff like the monorail cutbacks (how are those repairs going btw?), Dining Plans being increased so that it takes a degree in economics to make it work for you (or, just a really big spreadsheet ), decreasing the gap between adult and child APs, FP enforcement, less "other" stuff to do (PI, etc), and reduction of discounts all point to reducing the cost to value ratio of more frequent guests who will know better (in the case of the monorail, FPs, and other stuff and this EMH change) or know more about the discounts and how to work the financial side of their trips (room discounts are decreasing, Dining Plan increases making them money losers unless you actually plan them out, and QS almost impossible to even break even on) (the AP changes kinda stand on their own). The maintenance and CM issues can even be part of this, as first timers and infrequent visitors may be less likely to notice them.

Now, will I stop going altogether? Doubtful. This year's trip is obviously on, and future trips will depend on how it goes (but likely next year with family will go anyway). But if they are less enjoyable, then I'd be less likely to take lengthier trips and/or as pricey trips. After all, why bother making a good experience for me as a solo adult who works to get the discounts and make the dining work, when they could fill the same room, at full price, with a family that will buy the dining plan and lose a couple hundred dollars on it because they bought into the misleading advertising and think that everything is wonderful and perfect?

Wow. I'm cynical tonight.

Everything I wanted to say.

Your spreadsheet is awesome, btw. I know you put a lot of time into it - thanks for sharing with us.

 

[Cafeen]

You have to decide which way to go and cutting things like napkins & 1 hour of time isn't going to get noticed by the majority. Bit like if I had to, I'd rather upset my Dad as I only have to deal with him. If I upset my Mum I gotta deal with the whole bloody family

Those small things will make big savings and (hopefully) as things change and evolve in our economic shift, those savings will become positive changes in the future.

First bit - totally agree. Especially with the stuff that we notice that doesn't get noticed by normal people (yup, we're not normal here on the boards!) It's disheartening though as for us repeat (read: obsessed!) visitors, as it's those little things that make it special (at least, for me, and I'm sure for many others). Now, on an individual basis, I don't really care about some of them (e.g. napkins), but when taken as a whole and added to everything else, it's displaying a potential pattern that isn't looking very pleasing.

Second bit - See the cynical comment . Even with only my past 3 years of paying attention to this stuff (there was a ~17 year hiatus between my trips as a kid, then as an adult) I'm not liking many of the choices and directions the division seems to be going. A few bright spots have come up (FLE, return of specific merch), but those are being heavily overshadowed by some not so bright spots right now in my eyes.

But sometimes that can be cleansing in a weird kinda way

True, and I'm really thinking of doing my scavenger hunt for bad Disney stuff that I mentioned somewhere recently (in one of these threads, someone's recent list I think). I think doing that, will turn it all into a joke and force me to be a bit more excited about coming back and checking on the progress or lack thereof of the stuff I happen to see.

Of course, my pessimism is up over the past couple of days due to a few things (not the least of which is a "project" that I'm working on that has me reading through pages upon pages of FP threads over the past few years)

 

[Sammie]

GenX, take something away, then give it back but charge for it.

 

[Fantasmiss]

Yeah, it's usually the last PM EMH it's worth staying for. We'll probably just avoid EMH from Jan then. Unless it's like 2 or 3 in the morning as the parks are quite empty then anyway. But that's quite unlikely to happem often for us as we don't go when it's busy.

 

[aubriee]

As a Disney Addict it pains me to say that Disney does not care as much about us addicts as we would like. Or as much as we deserve. Disney looooooooves the first time visitors or the every 3-5 years people. They don't know what they are missing (like we do) they don't complain about things that aren't there anymore or prices that are higher or food that isn't as good. They don't know about any of that stuff and on average they spend more in park money than we addicts do. First time visitors make up 70% of the guests at WDW on any given day...of course Disney wants them to come back, but if they don't, someone else is waiting to fill their spot and Disney knows it. I know I sound very cynical, but in reality, we are a very small minority in the Disney scheme of things. They know many fans will be upset, but they also know many, many more coming next year won't even know an hour was cut. They calculated the risk and reaction versus the reward and decided it was worth it. Doesn't surprise me, not these days at least.

Gotta agree! I remember a few years ago AP discounts always came out before the GP ones. Now we are the very last to get discounts, discounts are not near as much and frequently are about the same as some of the GP deals, and only get what's left over as far as resorts. I know alot of resorts (especially standard rooms) were not included in this last batch of AP discounts. Disney just does not seem to appreciate their loyal customers like they used to. I know for the first time in over eight years, I am not planning on renewing my AP this next year. I'll keep my upcoming trips for early Sept and Oct/Nov, but only because my current AP doesnt expire until Nov 26th. I usually go to WDW for nine days 4-6 times every single year, but right now after my Nov trip I have no idea when I'll be going back. Normally I'd be planning a trip for early Dec and another one for the first week of May, but I think I'll be looking into other places to vacation. I work for a state hospital so get tons of vacation, comp, and holiday time. Depending on the year I have spent 36-54 days at WDW every single year for the last 8-9 years (but never less than 36 days). I'll now be spending those days elsewhere. Disney prices keep going up, but they keep making cuts.

 

[vacationer1954]

Disney prices keep going up, but they keep making cuts.

And the place is still wildly crowded much of the time, and the hotels full more than empty much of the time.

 

[GAN]

I know they are saying these cutbacks begin in 2013, but to me it appears that they have already begun -technically. Typically, in August the MK would remain open until 11PM most nights with the usual cut to 10PM later in the month(after say the 24th or so). With Friday being the usual PM EMH night, staying open until 2AM. This year, they are still "offering" the 3 hour EMH but closing at 10PM -thus reducing the EMH to 2-hours ...closing at 1PM.

 

[ToddyLu]

DH and I have already gone in years when we purchased up to 3 nights at MVMCP--because the other parks closed early, and we wanted something else to do after 9 p.m. I bet those parties are more crowded now. The price will continue to increase for those, too.....of course, Disney could give us party goers the extra hour back and close at 1a.m. on party nights.

 

[WickedDreamer]

Guess this was the "change" that held up the release of the January hours. Really unfortunate that it had to be a negative change-- especially in a month like January when regular hours are short as it is.

Thanks for the info, Robo.

This news is very disappointing, my sister and me normally travel during January/February as the crowds are very low and the weather is normally very good for that time of year. To hear that they will be changing the EMH hours for the evenings is very sad, this was when we got most of our rides down in the space of about 1-2 hours depending on the parks, as the crowds had thinned down heaps by that point of the day. When we were there in January we had most EMH in the evenings at MK by till 12am-2am some days. This gave us plenty of time to relax in the mornings at the hotel or at DTD and then hop across the MK for a late lunch at about 1-2pm and then get into the parks for the afternoon.

Hope they will re consider this change, as 2 hours does not really give you that much time in the evenings, by the time the normal day guest have exited the park and have gotten out of the lines. One night at Hollywood Studios the wait at TSM was still over 2 hours at one point at 9pm and EMH was 9pm-12am, and this was because the normally day visitors were still in line....

 

[Mommy2Jameson]

The reason this is such a big deal to me is that
the later the PM EMH, the fewer the guests, the more attraction rides per remaining guests.

The last hour was the "golden hour" of PM EMH.

I totally agree! This is so disappointing to me! We are not morning people, we're total night owls! So we LOVED sleeping in and avoiding the rope drops, and then we'd stay until the parks closed! The lines for rides were so short that last hour!

 

[staceymarie]

I did not read through this whole post but what a bummer!!!

This sooooo stinks.