Please be patient if you've sent out resumes.

[marlynnp]

I absolutely understand that people need jobs. I've been there, and someday, I'm likely to be there again. I do my absolute best to be kind and respectful to every applicant--even the ones who don't follow my instructions.

Frankly, to my mind, it wouldn't be fair to those folks who do follow instructions to consider those who don't. While I'm at it, I might as well hire people who don't have the qualifications I need, too. I mean, the ad doesn't really mean anything, right?

Sarcasm aside, what I tried to give was several pieces of advice for people who are looking for work from my perspective as an HR Manager. If you'd like to do things as you see fit, more power to you. I'm sure that your lack of respect for HR people and the work that we do will work in your favor.

Well said!

We aren't just getting a dozen applicants as we did in years past, we're getting 100+.

An applicant is expected to be putting forth their best when submitting a resume, and if selected, during the interview process.

For those that do not agree with our screening practices, how do you propose we screen applicants??????

 

[Minnie Lor]

Well said!

We aren't just getting a dozen applicants as we did in years past, we're getting 100+.

An applicant is expected to be putting forth their best when submitting a resume, and if selected, during the interview process.

For those that do not agree with our screening practices, how do you propose we screen applicants??????

On their skills. Not their age. Not whether you think they're over qualified but if you think they can do the job and represent the company.

I'm not saying that my husband broke standard interview etiquette. He always wore a suit and tie, his hair neatly trimmed, one page polished resume, excellent references, tons of experience, 2 associates, 2 bachelors, and a masters degree, served in the Air Force as an officer for 22 years, he shakes hands, waits for the ladies to sit before he sits, he's humble. He was laid off from a Fortune 500 corporate office as a programmer. He keeps getting passed over because he's ....too old? He's 58.....too much experience?....too many degrees? There's been times that he's left the masters degree off because it scares people. He was on the surgeon generals staff for a few years, was in charge of base hospital during a major earth quake, and another during a major hurricane. He doesn't bring this up. He keeps it to himself.

So what does he do now since he's been laid off for 6 months? Is he too proud to take a $10 hr job when he was making closer $30? No, he works in a call center at a little over $10 an hour and has to listen to whiny business owners.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Well said!

We aren't just getting a dozen applicants as we did in years past, we're getting 100+.

An applicant is expected to be putting forth their best when submitting a resume, and if selected, during the interview process.

For those that do not agree with our screening practices, how do you propose we screen applicants??????

I haven't read the pages previous to have this come up... but I agree!
We get 10 applicants daily, (dept store) and many are moms/dads looking for additional or SOLE income! If you can't fill out the entire app, or choose to make your own rules, you will be overlooked.
And, for heaven sakes....when the application asks "Why did you decide to apply here".. Don't answer ' "Because I like nice things and need the money to buy them"..
Oh...and see my 1st tag....that's not a good idea either

 

[DisneyBlonde]

On their skills. Not their age. Not whether you think they're over qualified but if you think they can do the job and represent the company.

I'm not saying that my husband broke standard interview etiquette. He always wore a suit and tie, his hair neatly trimmed, one page polished resume, excellent references, tons of experience, 2 associates, 2 bachelors, and a masters degree, served in the Air Force as an officer for 22 years, he shakes hands, waits for the ladies to sit before he sits, he's humble. He was laid off from a Fortune 500 corporate office as a programmer. He keeps getting passed over because he's ....too old? He's 58.....too much experience?....too many degrees? There's been times that he's left the masters degree off because it scares people. He was on the surgeon generals staff for a few years, was in charge of base hospital during a major earth quake, and another during a major hurricane. He doesn't bring this up. He keeps it to himself.

So what does he do now since he's been laid off for 6 months? Is he too proud to take a $10 hr job when he was making closer $30? No, he works in a call center at a little over $10 an hour and has to listen to whiny business owners.

Similar situation here Lorie. I tend to leave my master's off my resume too. I'm still waiting for the $10/hr call center job, and have recently started applying to our local diners for a waitressing position.

 

[underdesea]

Frankly, to my mind, it wouldn't be fair to those folks who do follow instructions to consider those who don't. While I'm at it, I might as well hire people who don't have the qualifications I need, too. I mean, the ad doesn't really mean anything, right?

Sarcasm aside, what I tried to give was several pieces of advice for people who are looking for work from my perspective as an HR Manager. If you'd like to do things as you see fit, more power to you. I'm sure that your lack of respect for HR people and the work that we do will work in your favor.

Unfortunately, there are those of us who do follow all the rules, and yet still don't receive the same courtesy back. We're not doing "things as we see fit" -- believe it or not, we do want to work for you, and we wouldn't apply if we didn't have the basic qualifications, if not more. If we are fortunate enough to get an interview, we dress professionally, we arrive having researched your company and truly believing we might be able to contribute to your future success. We're willing to work for less than we might have been paid in the past, because we understand the state of the current economy.

We don't have a lack of respect for you -- but try to see it from our perspective. Not every HR person or interviewer is as conscientious and professional as you are.

Just reading these types of responses, however, makes me even more discouraged.

 

[Mickeyistheman]

Unfortunately, there are those of us who do follow all the rules, and yet still don't receive the same courtesy back. We're not doing "things as we see fit" -- believe it or not, we do want to work for you, and we wouldn't apply if we didn't have the basic qualifications, if not more. If we are fortunate enought to get an interview, we dress professionally, we arrive having researched your company and truly believing we might be able to contribute to your future success. We're willing to work for less than we might have been paid in the past, because we understand the state of the current economy.

We don't have a lack of respect for you -- but try to see it from our perspective. Not every HR person or interviewer is as conscientious and professional as you are.

Just reading these types of responses, however, makes me even more discouraged.

I have to agree with you 100% and yes I am not even more discouraged than I have been. I also feel that respect is business should be a 2 way street.

 

[mamacatnv]

As a HR person it saddens me to see the attacks, heck there was some really good advice given here and none of it was unreasonable.

You know honestly I think that the "rules" we have lived by for years are going to have to be reevaluated. I was speaking with a rep from our state unemployment office and we were reviewing a resume, his concern, multiple jobs in the past 2 years. I looked at it and said the guy is in construction, he has been layed off repeatedly as have so many in that field and it prompted our discussion about how we as employers are going to have to shift our thinking in how we determine who we hire. BTW we hired the guy

MinnieLor I am so sorry to hear of your DH's struggles and sadly I do believe it is a compounded problem. Some small companies look at someones age and worry about the possible liabilities on their health insurance (not fair or legal I know but it is a reality) I also think that managers will not willingly hire someone who could easily replace them and I also think the companies shy away from "over qualified" thinking that when things improve the perspective employee will move on.

My DH is a mid 50's tech type guy and many of his co-workers have been laid off - it is a real struggle for everyone but the technical jobs are really hard for the 50/60's set. It sucks but it is reality.

To all of you looking I wish you well and success

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have another technical question for the HR/hiring persons in this thread. With all due respect, I've seen several instances of misspelling or misuse in this thread - throughout the thread, NOT from just one faction or the other. Heck, without rereading, I'm sure I'm guilty of this as well .

If we spell everything correctly, and use proper grammar, in both the cover letter and the resume, but the person reading one or both thinks there's an error because that's not how they spell this word or use that term - are we out of luck?

Thank you in advance, and a big THANK YOU to all the hiring/HR DISers in this thread who are willing to make suggestions, answer questions, and provide advice!

 

[mpls_mm]

I personally don't mind a follow up call, it makes me get the resume in front of me and then I ask any questions I might have. The thing that has really been getting me lately is that I include my email in my ads so people can send a resume, I now get very few resumes but I will get an email telling me to tell them more about my company. What is that about? I put my website address in the ad too so people can look, I am very descriptive, why do so many people only send an email telling, not asking for a full description of my company and the position or what it pays before I even get a resume? I also have been getting more random resumes that make me scratch my head, if you have no skills that relate or are 7 states away please include a cover letter saying why this might be a good fit or that you are relocating or haven't updated your address.

 

[NMAmy]

I have another technical question for the HR/hiring persons in this thread. With all due respect, I've seen several instances of misspelling or misuse in this thread - throughout the thread, NOT from just one faction or the other. Heck, without rereading, I'm sure I'm guilty of this as well .

If we spell everything correctly, and use proper grammar, in both the cover letter and the resume, but the person reading one or both thinks there's an error because that's not how they spell this word or use that term - are we out of luck?

Thank you in advance, and a big THANK YOU to all the hiring/HR DISers in this thread who are willing to make suggestions, answer questions, and provide advice!

Proofreading is a big part of my job and is also a part of the job description for those who work for me. One practice we follow in my office is to pass off completed documents for someone else to proofread. It's extremely easy to misread something you've prepared yourself and it's always good to get a set of fresh eyes to look it over. I work in academia. If I want people to take me seriously, I need to send out documents that contain no errors. And, believe me, I have a bunch of faculty reading these things--they're always delighted to point out mistakes.

This is a message board and is more like a casual conversation. I'm nowhere near as careful on here as I am when I'm getting paid to prepare a document. I also don't get someone else to check over each post for me.

When someone lists proofreading and attention to detail as strengths on a resume, it's a red flag when I see a ton of errors within the resume and application. That's not selling yourself.

 

[marlynnp]

I have another technical question for the HR/hiring persons in this thread. With all due respect, I've seen several instances of misspelling or misuse in this thread - throughout the thread, NOT from just one faction or the other. Heck, without rereading, I'm sure I'm guilty of this as well .

If we spell everything correctly, and use proper grammar, in both the cover letter and the resume, but the person reading one or both thinks there's an error because that's not how they spell this word or use that term - are we out of luck?

Thank you in advance, and a big THANK YOU to all the hiring/HR DISers in this thread who are willing to make suggestions, answer questions, and provide advice!

Sorry, I need examples.

I am cognizant of words that have variable spellings though retain the same meaning. (I used cognizant on purpose. lol. It is also acceptable to spell it cognisant.)

However, as in a previous example I cited, manor and manner do not mean the same thing.


I won't go into how to create a great resume. A lot of the resumes I receive have good content but they still have problems because I literally can not read them.

A few other resume tips.

Do not use more than 2 fonts. Vary the size and/or bold to make things stand out instead.

Make sure that the fonts you use are legible. A resume is not the place for a script font.

Do not cut & paste your resume into email. 95% of the time it looks like carp when I open it.
Send it as a .doc attachment - if you are using another word processing program it should give you the option to save as this file type. I will not search the net for a program that opens your file.
The best way to send it would as a pdf file. You can get a 'print to pdf' program cheaply and maybe even free. I use Novapdf which was only a few dollars but I think that the software maker, Softland, even has a freeware version.

 

[apirateslifeforme]

Do not cut & paste your resume into email. 95% of the time it looks like carp when I open it.
Send it as a .doc attachment - if you are using another word processing program it should give you the option to save as this file type. I will not search the net for a program that opens your file.
The best way to send it would as a pdf file. You can get a 'print to pdf' program cheaply and maybe even free. I use Novapdf which was only a few dollars but I think that the software maker, Softland, even has a freeware version.

Okay, numerous "resume professionals" at the Dept. of Labor Career Center and other HR professionals say never to send a resume as an attachment - companies will not open attachments for fear of virus. They say to put it in the body of the email and left-adjust, and do not use any fancy fonts/bolding/italics. Of course, the company posting the ad never specifies how they want it, but they do state in bold, "NO PHONE CALLS FOR ANY REASON."

I'm to the point of just sending resumes via USPS now because of all of this conflicting advice.

 

[DisneyBlonde]

HR people, first off, thank you for taking the time to share your views. For some of us, this unique insight could make the difference on the very next application.

If you don't mind, here are a few things an HR person/hiring manager will see on my resume, that I often wonder...can this send up a red flag?

1) My resume is 2 pages (it goes back to 1986). It was 1 page but a career counselor told me it lacked detail. There are 5 companies listed.
2) I was at my previous company for 15 years. Can this be seen as a bad thing?
3) I moved from CT to NJ in 2007 (the reason that I left that job). I also moved from CT to CA to OH, but that was 20 years ago.
4) I have worked since moving to NJ, for a few months, but was recently laid off.

And a few general questions, maybe others can benefit from as well:

I leave my master's off my resume for jobs where it won't matter (but when I'm asked about my education in an application I DO include the master's). Is this not recommended?

I got a BS in 1984 and an MS in 2004. Is it ok to list the degree and school, and leave the year off...or will that be red flagged?

If I am applying for a job that I know I am overqualified for, I will include a line in my cover letter stating that my recent remarriage has afforded me many positive changes, including the freedom to be more flexible in my career, and that I can now pursue work that I find important/interesting. Further down I mention that I believe they will find my salary requirements modest given my years of experience. Yeah or nay?

Thank you again.

 

[Binnie]

HR people, first off, thank you for taking the time to share your views. For some of us, this unique insight could make the difference on the very next application.

If you don't mind, here are a few things an HR person/hiring manager will see on my resume, that I often wonder...can this send up a red flag?

1) My resume is 2 pages (it goes back to 1986). It was 1 page but a career counselor told me it lacked detail. There are 5 companies listed.
2) I was at my previous company for 15 years. Can this be seen as a bad thing?
3) I moved from CT to NJ in 2007 (the reason that I left that job). I also moved from CT to CA to OH, but that was 20 years ago.
4) I have worked since moving to NJ, for a few months, but was recently laid off.

And a few general questions, maybe others can benefit from as well:

I leave my master's off my resume for jobs where it won't matter (but when I'm asked about my education in an application I DO include the master's). Is this not recommended?

I got a BS in 1984 and an MS in 2004. Is it ok to list the degree and school, and leave the year off...or will that be red flagged?

If I am applying for a job that I know I am overqualified for, I will include a line in my cover letter stating that my recent remarriage has afforded me many positive changes, including the freedom to be more flexible in my career, and that I can now pursue work that I find important/interesting. Further down I mention that I believe they will find my salary requirements modest given my years of experience. Yeah or nay?

Thank you again.

First off, I would leave the years off your degrees. Whether you got them 20 years ago or not makes very little difference to me. But do list the school and the area of your degree (i.e. English, etc.). Some hiring managers REALLY want to know what you studied (I'm not always sure why, but that's another issue).

A two-page resume isn't a turn off for me, but you should be careful about how much detail you use. I need to see the most detail at your most recent job--and since you've been there for 15 years, I'm sure there's plenty of detail to be had. Other jobs might have shorter explanations (3-5 lines of text). Anything older and not pertaining to your current job search could be left off.

15 years of longevity at a previous employe could be seen as a bad thing, but it really depends on the organization. I LOVE to see longevity. The fear that some have about longevity is that people will be so entrenched in the ways of the previous employer that they won't be as useful in the new organization. You just need to show how flexible you can be for the new folks.

Relocation is not a big deal to me, so if you want to mention it, it wouldn't disturb me in the slightest. I wouldn't mention the remarriage. I don't like to know anything more about applicants than I should at the resume stage, and marital status is protected, so I don't want to know. I would also avoid listing salary requirements unless they ask for it. Salary expectations are often used to filter applicants--whether you're looking for too much or too little.

I hope something of the above as been useful. And good luck in the job search.

 

[Binnie]

Unfortunately, there are those of us who do follow all the rules, and yet still don't receive the same courtesy back. We're not doing "things as we see fit" -- believe it or not, we do want to work for you, and we wouldn't apply if we didn't have the basic qualifications, if not more. If we are fortunate enough to get an interview, we dress professionally, we arrive having researched your company and truly believing we might be able to contribute to your future success. We're willing to work for less than we might have been paid in the past, because we understand the state of the current economy.

We don't have a lack of respect for you -- but try to see it from our perspective. Not every HR person or interviewer is as conscientious and professional as you are.

Just reading these types of responses, however, makes me even more discouraged.

Underdsea,

My response was specificly intended for MinnieLor. I understand and appreciate how awful this job market is, and I hate that lots of people are struggling at best to deal with it. I know that applicants genuinely want to work for my organization--but I also know that it's my responsibility to balance applicants' desires with our needs and expectations, our culture and our financial resources.

At the same time that there are a lot of HR people out there who are difficult to work with and not terribly diligent, applicants need to understand that some of us are doing the best that we can--also in very difficult situations--and that we can't always be as kind or as accommodating as we'd like to be.

 

[Mickeyistheman]

First off, I would leave the years off your degrees. Whether you got them 20 years ago or not makes very little difference to me. But do list the school and the area of your degree (i.e. English, etc.). Some hiring managers REALLY want to know what you studied (I'm not always sure why, but that's another issue).

A two-page resume isn't a turn off for me, but you should be careful about how much detail you use. I need to see the most detail at your most recent job--and since you've been there for 15 years, I'm sure there's plenty of detail to be had. Other jobs might have shorter explanations (3-5 lines of text). Anything older and not pertaining to your current job search could be left off.

15 years of longevity at a previous employe could be seen as a bad thing, but it really depends on the organization. I LOVE to see longevity. The fear that some have about longevity is that people will be so entrenched in the ways of the previous employer that they won't be as useful in the new organization. You just need to show how flexible you can be for the new folks.

Relocation is not a big deal to me, so if you want to mention it, it wouldn't disturb me in the slightest. I wouldn't mention the remarriage. I don't like to know anything more about applicants than I should at the resume stage, and marital status is protected, so I don't want to know. I would also avoid listing salary requirements unless they ask for it. Salary expectations are often used to filter applicants--whether you're looking for too much or too little.

I hope something of the above as been useful. And good luck in the job search.

This makes ME scratch my head, working for a long time 10 years + at one place is a bad thing????????????????????????? That statement totally freaked me out and now I am even more worried about my resume'. I worked for an amazing company for 10 years and left because of money and there was no where for me to advance. How could a new possible employer look down on someone for working that long with one company?

 

[WDWBarb]

This makes ME scratch my head, working for a long time 10 years + at one place is a bad thing????????????????????????? That statement totally freaked me out and now I am even more worried about my resume'. I worked for an amazing company for 10 years and left because of money and there was no where for me to advance. How could a new possible employer look down on someone for working that long with one company?

As someone who hires, I would consider staying at a company for 15 years to be a very good thing. If there were changes in position and/or responsibility, state it very clearly.

While it is hard for an employee to switch employers after that length of time (trust me, I know - I left a job of 10 years and it was a huge adjustment), it demonstrates great loyalty and dedication.

 

[DisneyBlonde]

First off, I would leave the years off your degrees. Whether you got them 20 years ago or not makes very little difference to me. But do list the school and the area of your degree (i.e. English, etc.). Some hiring managers REALLY want to know what you studied (I'm not always sure why, but that's another issue).

A two-page resume isn't a turn off for me, but you should be careful about how much detail you use. I need to see the most detail at your most recent job--and since you've been there for 15 years, I'm sure there's plenty of detail to be had. Other jobs might have shorter explanations (3-5 lines of text). Anything older and not pertaining to your current job search could be left off.

15 years of longevity at a previous employe could be seen as a bad thing, but it really depends on the organization. I LOVE to see longevity. The fear that some have about longevity is that people will be so entrenched in the ways of the previous employer that they won't be as useful in the new organization. You just need to show how flexible you can be for the new folks.

Relocation is not a big deal to me, so if you want to mention it, it wouldn't disturb me in the slightest. I wouldn't mention the remarriage. I don't like to know anything more about applicants than I should at the resume stage, and marital status is protected, so I don't want to know. I would also avoid listing salary requirements unless they ask for it. Salary expectations are often used to filter applicants--whether you're looking for too much or too little.

I hope something of the above as been useful. And good luck in the job search.

Binnie, thank you.

I'm going to make a few changes. I can't do anything about the 15 years at one company, but I do have my resume broken out into the different jobs that I held during that time, which shows growth and hopefully flexibility. But now I know to emphasize flexibility in other ways.

 

[WDWBarb]

Okay, numerous "resume professionals" at the Dept. of Labor Career Center and other HR professionals say never to send a resume as an attachment - companies will not open attachments for fear of virus. They say to put it in the body of the email and left-adjust, and do not use any fancy fonts/bolding/italics. Of course, the company posting the ad never specifies how they want it, but they do state in bold, "NO PHONE CALLS FOR ANY REASON."

I'm to the point of just sending resumes via USPS now because of all of this conflicting advice.

I like to receive resumes in the body of the email because it allows me to search keywords that I'm looking for much quicker. Formatting CAN change so I usually take that into consideration when they don't look exactly right when I receive them.

Perfect scenario for me is when I receive it in the body of the email and in an attachment (I prefer it to be in Adobe .pdf, but that's entirely a personal preference and doesn't mean that I won't consider .doc files). That way I have the ability to search and I also know what the person who sent it intended for it to look like.

 

[mpls_mm]

I totally get when someone says they are concerned about 15 years with one company. It is a red flag with me also, Don't get me wrong, I love loyalty. Sometimes people have a hard time adapting to a new environment, we recently hired someone with 20 years at one company and it was bad for morale. Everything he said was well at Blank they did this and at blank there was this. It was hard to retrain him and there were lots of roadblocks, he left but I don't think it was us, I think it was the culture shock. I like to see that people if they were at the same place, were able to advance and move around and it seems like they weren't stagnant.