Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

OMG. I can't.

You know you want to...
...every girl likes a rebel/bad boy

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We agree that the real estate where BC/YC is more valuable than the real estate where All-Stars was built. Why do you think anyone is selling the land, where did that come from? Disney knows CBR is easily connected to Epcot and giving the tower easy park access makes it a true deluxe DVC on par with BW/BC/YC, if you can just get over the marketing hype that says CBR can only be a moderate.

Give me an "W"

Give me an "R"

Give me an "O"

....


What's the "anyone is selling the land" quip?

No seriously...I need to know this one.

 

[dlavender]

Way too much belief they want more overhead and employees than minimum at dvc. They don't.

Yeah, but they don't need to. They just need 2 shovels, and will power. They will build a canal that goes right into EPCOT. It will cost them less than a cup of coffee a day. Then they will sell CBR for 2x's what Poly goes for. It will sell out before the power is even connected. People will flock to have the rare opportunity to boat into EPCOT. They might not even have to build the tower. Just need to carve out some camping spots. They will put in a DVC Cabana village. People don't care, as long as there is a park entrance. Everything else is just icing.

It's kind of fun to argue it from the other side

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah, but they don't need to. They just need 2 shovels, and will power. They will build a canal that goes right into EPCOT. It will cost them less than a cup of coffee a day. Then they will sell CBR for 2x's what Poly goes for. It will sell out before the power is even connected. People will flock to have the rare opportunity to boat into EPCOT. They might not even have to build the tower. Just need to carve out some camping spots. They will put in a DVC Cabana village. People don't care, as long as there is a park entrance. Everything else is just icing.

It's kind of fun to argue it from the other side

It is...if you don't mind wearing the hat and makeup

 

[LaidBackDad]

Yeah, but they don't need to. They just need 2 shovels, and will power. They will build a canal that goes right into EPCOT. It will cost them less than a cup of coffee a day. Then they will sell CBR for 2x's what Poly goes for. It will sell out before the power is even connected. People will flock to have the rare opportunity to boat into EPCOT. They might not even have to build the tower. Just need to carve out some camping spots. They will put in a DVC Cabana village. People don't care, as long as there is a park entrance. Everything else is just icing.

It's kind of fun to argue it from the other side

Just for fun I googled the average cost of excavating a canal to see that the actually cost was. The internet has the cost at about $2.50 per cubic yard. Figure a 1000 yard canal, 25 yards wide, by 6 foot deep (a ball bark guesstimate for the size of a canal needed to connect CBR to the friendship boats. The cost of a canal that size is about $125K. Yes, I know there are all sorts of imagined problems and a bridge, and the excavating is only the start of construction cost. So, lets just multiply the budget for connecting CBR by 300x's after the initial excavation and round up, that's about $38M. So ya, in Disney terms and ROI, that works out to be about a cup of coffee a day.

A deluxe DVC at CBR will appeal mostly the existing DVC demographic who crave the easy access to Epcot. So again yes, It very well may sell out before the power is connected. Most of the current DVC owners will see a very nice new deluxe resort and love the easy access to the WS and F&W. Most DVC folk will care less about the moderate rooms next door, at least no more than WL DVC folk resent the Cabins at Fort Wilderness.

 

[dlavender]

Just for fun I googled the average cost of excavating a canal to see that the actually cost was. The internet has the cost at about $2.50 per cubic yard. Figure a 1000 yard canal, 25 yards wide, by 6 foot deep (a ball bark guesstimate for the size of a canal needed to connect CBR to the friendship boats. The cost of a canal that size is about $125K. Yes, I know there are all sorts of imagined problems and a bridge, and the excavating is only the start of construction cost. So, lets just multiply the budget for connecting CBR by 300x's after the initial excavation and round up, that's about $38M. So ya, in Disney terms and ROI, that works out to be about a cup of coffee a day.

Where does the boat take you to?

 

[rteetz]

signature" type waterfront restaurant...I was impressed.

I don't believe it's supposed to be signature. It's supposed to be a bar/grill.

 

[rteetz]

Where does the boat take you to?

Epcot and DHS. The poster is talking about connect CBR with the boat transportation of the Epcot resorts.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't believe it's supposed to be signature. It's supposed to be a bar/grill.

Is it? I saw "quickserve" discussed on the dvc threads

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Where does the boat take you to?

You can't have asbestos hauled away for 2.50 a cubic yard...I'm just saying

 

[rteetz]

Is it? I saw "quickserve" discussed on the dvc threads

Looks like it is supposed to be a quick service but it has bar and grill in the name.

http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2016/...ning-summer-2017-at-disneys-wilderness-lodge/

 

[dlavender]

Epcot and DHS. The poster is talking about connect CBR with the boat transportation of the Epcot resorts.

I know, I'm trying to follow the thought process. It costs 38 mil to build the canal to EPCOT, but where does it let off? Are we building another gate? Are we staffing it? Are we dumping into the middle of the Lake in EPCOT, and using that as the gate? Are we putting extra staff there? Or are we boating to the existing gate that Boardwalk uses? Need more staff, need more dredging to get there.

I'm pointing out that that 38 million ends up becoming 100 million over 50 years with perpetual staffing. Unless we are just turning it into a lazy river, float in float out, don't let the amoeba's bite....

So if we have 100 million just in a canal, that's still not enough to command VGF rates. So now on top of that you want to add deluxe amenities? We want to take our 50 million build to 300 million, and hope that we can recoup at least that just to break even?

 

[LaidBackDad]

Give me an "W"

Give me an "R"

Give me an "O"

....


What's the "anyone is selling the land" quip?

No seriously...I need to know this one.

You are saying the value of the land doesn't matter because Disney owns it all. The reality is, the value of the land does matter whether it's for sale or not. To maximize the value of the property you build facilities on the property proportional to what the lands worth. So no, you do not build a deluxe tower on a lessor property like All-Stars or Pop. The land doesn't hold the value to justify that kind of investment. The same rational is you don't leave a trailer park (moderate resort) with an ocean view (direct proximity to a park). That property is being under utilized and is better suited for a deluxe resort.

 

[rteetz]

I know, I'm trying to follow the thought process. It costs 38 mil to build the canal to EPCOT, but where does it let off? Are we building another gate? Are we staffing it? Are we dumping into the middle of the Lake in EPCOT, and using that as the gate? Are we putting extra staff there? Or are we boating to the existing gate that Boardwalk uses? Need more staff, need more dredging to get there.

I'm pointing out that that 38 million ends up becoming 100 million over 50 years with perpetual staffing. Unless we are just turning it into a lazy river, float in float out, don't let the amoeba's bite....

So if we have 100 million just in a canal, that's still not enough to command VGF rates. So now on top of that you want to add deluxe amenities? We want to take our 50 million build to 300 million, and hope that we can recoup at least that just to break even?

I believe with that posters logic it would connect to the existing infrastructure in that it would let off at international gateway. Why would they need more staff? Maybe another boat driver or two.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just for fun I googled the average cost of excavating a canal to see that the actually cost was. The internet has the cost at about $2.50 per cubic yard. Figure a 1000 yard canal, 25 yards wide, by 6 foot deep (a ball bark guesstimate for the size of a canal needed to connect CBR to the friendship boats. The cost of a canal that size is about $125K. Yes, I know there are all sorts of imagined problems and a bridge, and the excavating is only the start of construction cost. So, lets just multiply the budget for connecting CBR by 300x's after the initial excavation and round up, that's about $38M. So ya, in Disney terms and ROI, that works out to be about a cup of coffee a day.

A deluxe DVC at CBR will appeal mostly the existing DVC demographic who crave the easy access to Epcot. So again yes, It very well may sell out before the power is connected. Most of the current DVC owners will see a very nice new deluxe resort and love the easy access to the WS and F&W. Most DVC folk will care less about the moderate rooms next door, at least no more than WL DVC folk resent the Cabins at Fort Wilderness.

In 2 years Epcot will be Disney's least attended park...more than likely...

So who's craving these days?

I have to ask: were you ever at Epcot prior to 1999?

 

[dlavender]

I believe with that posters logic it would connect to the existing infrastructure in that it would let off at international gateway. Why would they need more staff? Maybe another boat driver or two.

That adds to the 1000 ft argument. Are we at 3000 ft now? Also going to have to widen that canal, aren't we? And that becomes a pretty lengthy boat ride, does it not? And we are talking about now adding at least 2 boats, with 50 years of maintenance and labor fees. If the round trip is taking 20-30 minutes, pretty sure they better put at least 4 in circulation.

So at 38 million for 1000 ft, 3000 ft is over 100 million with no other considerations.

Is the light shining in now?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You are saying the value of the land doesn't matter because Disney owns it all. The reality is, the value of the land does matter whether it's for sale or not. To maximize the value of the property you build facilities on the property proportional to what the lands worth. So no, you do not build a deluxe tower on a lessor property like All-Stars or Pop. The land doesn't hold the value to justify that kind of investment. The same rational is you don't leave a trailer park (moderate resort) with an ocean view (direct proximity to a park). That property is being under utilized and is better suited for a deluxe resort.

Pop is the SAME PROPERTY...as is Art of Animation!!! It's all the same tract. Caribbean was not built there because it was "prime real estate"...this has gone beyond silly!!

Look at the attached file...

The top is Trinidad south...the bottom is the 1950's

For fifty points: what's the warehouse looking building in the center?

 

[rteetz]

That adds to the 1000 ft argument. Are we at 3000 ft now? Also going to have to widen that canal, aren't we? And that becomes a pretty lengthy boat ride, does it not? And we are talking about now adding at least 2 boats, with 50 years of maintenance and labor fees. If the round trip is taking 20-30 minutes, pretty sure they better put at least 4 in circulation.

So at 38 million for 1000 ft, 3000 ft is over 100 million with no other considerations.

Is the light shining in now?

I am not for or against the idea I was just trying to offer some clarification.

 

[dlavender]

I am not for or against the idea I was just trying to offer some clarification.

I got ya, my post was directed @LaidBackDad

Should have prefaced my posts a little better

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Regarding the new quick at wilderness lodge:

Kinda budget, ain't it?

Disney has done this recently: calling its quickserves "grill" to make it seem
Like they aren't dumping the same frozen chicken tenders into the fryer like the electric umbrella...

A "bar and grill" is a restaurant...this will not be.