Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[TheMaxRebo]

CBR could well be planned to be something similar to SSR, a deluxe resort without park access...but the problem is the current price point. SSR sold at $95 per point originally, and I think got up to around $115 per point before it sold out. Current points are $170+ only 10 years after SSR sold out, and will likely be $180-190 by the time CBR (or whatever it's called starts selling.) Even at lower point totals, how many people with that kind of money are going to be buying a place at CBR with no park access. I just don't know....every way I slice this it has logic issues.

Well, if they are the only option left (if others are sold out) and they keep the price per point static (so $170 - which is less in tomorrow dollars but Disney can safe face by not lowering the price) and if they lower the total buy in required / points per night so people can get in on the "best kept secret" for less up front - and it has deluxe like accommodations ("stay in Deluxe rooms, roof top bar/restaura, views of a park) I think they could sell them that way - might not sell like gangbusters and I am sure existing DVD owners won't be lining up to add points at this location, but if they feel the need to expand the pie of who is able to buy in to DVC it could be a way ... and the less investment required by Disney (no new forms of transportation - other than one dedicated bus, no new "moderate DVC system" to maintain, no new park entrances, etc.)

 

[dlavender]

Well, if they are the only option left (if others are sold out) and they keep the price per point static (so $170 - which is less in tomorrow dollars but Disney can safe face by not lowering the price) and if they lower the total buy in required / points per night so people can get in on the "best kept secret" for less up front - and it has deluxe like accommodations ("stay in Deluxe rooms, roof top bar/restaura, views of a park) I think they could sell them that way - might not sell like gangbusters and I am sure existing DVD owners won't be lining up to add points at this location, but if they feel the need to expand the pie of who is able to buy in to DVC it could be a way ... and the less investment required by Disney (no new forms of transportation - other than one dedicated bus, no new "moderate DVC system" to maintain, no new park entrances, etc.)

This makes the most sense to me.

If the current buy in contracts are 25k, this one could potentially go for 15k. That's pretty significant, and should open up the base. It also puts the weekly point total at this new CBR DVC at 80-90. Not too low, but not too high. Could be a good mix. It would be 2/3 the cost, but also 2/3 (I'd argue 1/2) the resort.

I don't know if there is a segment out there waiting to throw down 15k on something like this. Perhaps they do.

I also didn't think there was a segment waiting to pay $400/night for a family suite at a value, but here we are...

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This makes the most sense to me.

If the current buy in contracts are 25k, this one could potentially go for 15k. That's pretty significant, and should open up the base. It also puts the weekly point total at this new CBR DVC at 80-90. Not too low, but not too high. Could be a good mix. It would be 2/3 the cost, but also 2/3 (I'd argue 1/2) the resort.

I don't know if there is a segment out there waiting to throw down 15k on something like this. Perhaps they do.

I also didn't think there was a segment waiting to pay $400/night for a family suite at a value, but here we are...

Just thinking from a marketing perspective: "Now it is more affordable than ever to own a piece of the magic - and in our newest resort which is in close proximity to Star Wars Land, featuring dedicated transportation to all the parks, and with access to a view of the all new Illuminations 2.0!" .... I could see people going for it

And if it is those same people willing to pay $400/night for suites and the pitch is now it is the same space but for much less $/night there could be an appeal

 

[crazy4wdw]

Just thinking from a marketing perspective: "Now it is more affordable than ever to own a piece of the magic - and in our newest resort which is in close proximity to Star Wars Land, featuring dedicated transportation to all the parks, and with access to a view of the all new Illuminations 2.0!"l

Also need to add "It's Disney's best kept secret"!

 

[LaidBackDad]

Just thinking from a marketing perspective: "Now it is more affordable than ever to own a piece of the magic - and in our newest resort which is in close proximity to Star Wars Land, featuring dedicated transportation to all the parks, and with access to a view of the all new Illuminations 2.0!" .... I could see people going for it

And if it is those same people willing to pay $400/night for suites and the pitch is now it is the same space but for much less $/night there could be an appeal

You almost have it!!! Now, why would they sell points for a reduced rate or less points per night and screw up the whole DVC model and piss everyone off? Why would Disney settle for making less money than they possibly can. There will be no discount on points at this DVC. They will sell at a premium and probably faster than any recent DVC. You honestly think buyers will shy away from a brand new deluxe tower because they share a resort with some moderate rooms that DVC members won't even be using anyways? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, you have to factor the land valuation of where the tower is being located. It is relevant and the primary factor why CBR was chosen for a DVC over other properties. Why are they building the tower on Bermuda? Because it's the closest point in the resort to Epcot. If they really thought DVC owners would share a lot of the services at CBR, why not build the tower closer to OPR? The big picture is that CBR is on premium real estate within WDW because of it's proximity to 2 parks. I used the analogy before but it is accurate. CBR is currently the equivalent of a trailer park on ocean front property. That is why there is no way this new tower is going to be anything less than a deluxe. They are not going to replace the old trailers with new trailers so guest can pay less for a premium location. Does that really sound like something they would do?

 

[DanBoris]

Ok I'm too lazy to read through all this so I'm going to ask for a catch-up: When is this starting and is it going to be an existing section or that open patch of land across Trinidad South? I'm asking because my family just booked (FINALLY!!!!) and I just want to know to get prepared for construction

The biggest part of the project will involve the replacement of the Barbados and Martinique sections, but there will also be work going on in others areas. The open land across from Trinidad will also be getting a new building but most of it will become a storm water retention pond. There are no firm dates for the start other then "2017" but I would expect work to start in the next couple months.

 

[Madonna3]

You honestly think buyers will shy away from a brand new deluxe tower because they share a resort with some moderate rooms that DVC members won't even be using anyways?

Yes. I'm a DVC owner and I would. I refuse to think myself in the minority as I rarely ever am because I fit the DVC buyer demographic. So, if I say I will then others will too. The average DVC owner is not a first time park visitor. They're experienced and they know a moderate vs value vs deluxe. Put the deluxe tower over at PoP and then ask yourself the same question.

If they really thought DVC owners would share a lot of the services at CBR, why not build the tower closer to OPR?

Cause OPR is going away.

CBR is currently the equivalent of a trailer park on ocean front property.

Most accurate thing you've said.

They are not going to replace the old trailers with new trailers so guest can pay less for a premium location. Does that really sound like something they would do?

Yes, cause Disney.

Until there is park access this is NOT a premium location.

 

[dlavender]

Put the deluxe tower over at PoP and then ask yourself the same question.

Great point.

"all they have to do is put in a new building, and add a water slide, voila, deluxe resort"

Apparently every resort is a deluxe waiting to come out of its shell.....

ETA: OKW is ~2500 ft away from EPCOT, why didn't they make a path to that resort? Could have tripled values!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This makes the most sense to me.

If the current buy in contracts are 25k, this one could potentially go for 15k. That's pretty significant, and should open up the base. It also puts the weekly point total at this new CBR DVC at 80-90. Not too low, but not too high. Could be a good mix. It would be 2/3 the cost, but also 2/3 (I'd argue 1/2) the resort.

I don't know if there is a segment out there waiting to throw down 15k on something like this. Perhaps they do.

I also didn't think there was a segment waiting to pay $400/night for a family suite at a value, but here we are...

Great point.

"all they have to do is put in a new building, and add a water slide, voila, deluxe resort"

Apparently every resort is a deluxe waiting to come out of its shell.....

ETA: OKW is ~2500 ft away from EPCOT, why didn't they make a path to that resort? Could have tripled values!

Yep, yep, and more yep...

This has to be the dumbest sustained argument we've seen on the disboards in along time...

Disney owns all the land...and it's all not more than 3 miles from parks...therefore it's all PRIME and therefore all "deluxe"...

How did disney misread it's library of consumer research and mistakenly price things in different categories?

How could they be so dumb?...all that money lost

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes. I'm a DVC owner and I would. I refuse to think myself in the minority as I rarely ever am because I fit the DVC buyer demographic. So, if I say I will then others will too. The average DVC owner is not a first time park visitor. They're experienced and they know a moderate vs value vs deluxe. Put the deluxe tower over at PoP and then ask yourself the same question.

You might have to translate this to French or Inuit...

...it's just not sinking in. Dvc is more than a "real estate" or a "location" thing...it's as much disney fandom and economic mentality because that's how they designed it/sold it from day one...

They were after deep pockets and that takes more than "look! The backside of the Italy pavilion is just over the road, behind the firehouse, through the trees, and over the service roads from here!!!"

Don't believe me...it's not like I heard the original GM of DVC give a presentation on it at Disney Institute once....

 

[OKW Lover]

"all they have to do is put in a new building, and add a water slide, voila, deluxe resort"

All they have to do is build a better resort. Bigger rooms, more amenities, nice restaurant, good customer service, valet parking and perhaps some suites. That's how you get a deluxe resort. Location isn't the critical criteria. Take a look at the Four Seasons or the Waldorf Astoria.

 

[dlavender]

All they have to do is build a better resort. Bigger rooms, more amenities, nice restaurant, good customer service, valet parking and perhaps some suites. That's how you get a deluxe resort. Location isn't the critical criteria. Take a look at the Four Seasons or the Waldorf Astoria.

I agree, my statement was intended to be sarcastic

 

[dlavender]

All they have to do is build a better resort. Bigger rooms, more amenities, nice restaurant, good customer service, valet parking and perhaps some suites. That's how you get a deluxe resort. Location isn't the critical criteria. Take a look at the Four Seasons or the Waldorf Astoria.

We are in total agreement.

Water slides and interior hallways are not the corner stone of a deluxe.

 

[LaidBackDad]

You might have to translate this to French or Inuit...

...it's just not sinking in. Dvc is more than a "real estate" or a "location" thing...it's as much disney fandom and economic mentality because that's how they designed it/sold it from day one...

They were after deep pockets and that takes more than "look! The backside of the Italy pavilion is just over the road, behind the firehouse, through the trees, and over the service roads from here!!!"

Don't believe me...it's not like I heard the original GM of DVC give a presentation on it at Disney Institute once....

It's not sinking in because you keep proving my point for me. It is very odd. DVC was marketed to the deep pockets, that's what I've been saying all along. That's why the tower at CBR will be deluxe DVC. I'm not sure why it's so perplexing that Disney wants to increase value at CBR.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Yep, yep, and more yep...

This has to be the dumbest sustained argument we've seen on the disboards in along time...

Disney owns all the land...and it's all not more than 3 miles from parks...therefore it's all PRIME and therefore all "deluxe"...

How did disney misread it's library of consumer research and mistakenly price things in different categories?

How could they be so dumb?...all that money lost

We agree that the real estate where BC/YC is more valuable than the real estate where All-Stars was built. Why do you think anyone is selling the land, where did that come from? Disney knows CBR is easily connected to Epcot and giving the tower easy park access makes it a true deluxe DVC on par with BW/BC/YC, if you can just get over the marketing hype that says CBR can only be a moderate.

 

[LaidBackDad]

We are in total agreement.

Water slides and interior hallways are not the corner stone of a deluxe.

They are building a better resort with the tower, it will be bigger rooms because it will be DVC, and will likely have a new restaurant or two with better service plus easy park access. What part of deluxe am I missing?

 

[dlavender]

They are building a better resort with the tower, it will be bigger rooms because it will be DVC, and will likely have a new restaurant or two with better service plus easy park access. What part of deluxe am I missing?

I guess what I'm missing is the cost benefit to that.

Why build and staff two restaurants? Why build and staff another entrance? Why add marble and upgraded fixtures? Why add valet staff? Yes, I know the answer will be, "money". However, the costs of adding what it would take to make it a deluxe would be exponentially higher than just building a DVC building and charging less. I don't see how you come out better. You are talking about doubling/tripling costs and taking on double/triple the risk. You not only have to make sure the DVC will now sell at the highest of price points, but you also have to keep the restaurants operating to capacity. And if you fail, you fail spectacularly, while maybe making 20% more than you would have without doing all of that.

Perhaps others are right in saying this is Phase I. Eventually they will tear down the whole thing and rebuild it as another up to code DVC experience. Just seems to be a very large project with a lot of risks. And getting rid of an entire moderate resort in the process makes it unlikely.

But maybe you are right. Maybe they put in some underwater speakers, an interior hallway, shutters 2, and some sort of overpass to breakroom B and charge VGF rates.


I'd take the safe route on this one.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's not sinking in because you keep proving my point for me. It is very odd. DVC was marketed to the deep pockets, that's what I've been saying all along. That's why the tower at CBR will be deluxe DVC. I'm not sure why it's so perplexing that Disney wants to increase value at CBR.

No...you're missing OUR point...that you can't re-label Caribbean and call it something else...and even your DELUXE tower will be a turnoff to the existing clientele because they know the deal.

So that will imbalance the system because it's core is an exchange system...go where you want.

Hey look...you may be right about two things: you may get your labeled "deluxe dvc" tower...they may even Sell it.

But that may also lead to a big rift in dvc and a longterm downswing. So that would make US right.

Not impossible.

You're just still dead wrong on the "great location" and that deluxe is a "state of mind" at Disney. It's based on what was built and where it was built. Caribbean is 0-2 on that...

Your argument would then transfer to pop...as they are on the same grounds and share housekeeping...you want to float that one?

 

[Madonna3]

It's not sinking in because you keep proving my point for me. It is very odd. DVC was marketed to the deep pockets, that's what I've been saying all along. That's why the tower at CBR will be deluxe DVC. I'm not sure why it's so perplexing that Disney wants to increase value at CBR.

We agree that the real estate where BC/YC is more valuable than the real estate where All-Stars was built. Why do you think anyone is selling the land, where did that come from? Disney knows CBR is easily connected to Epcot and giving the tower easy park access makes it a true deluxe DVC on par with BW/BC/YC, if you can just get over the marketing hype that says CBR can only be a moderate.

They are building a better resort with the tower, it will be bigger rooms because it will be DVC, and will likely have a new restaurant or two with better service plus easy park access. What part of deluxe am I missing?

OMG. I can't.

Every single thing you say relies on CBR being this great resort with access to Epcot.

It doesn't have it and it's not EASY. Everyone keeps telling you that, but your counter argument is, "but it's a great location". It's not a great location no more than Coronado is a great location to AK. Just cause you google Earthed something doesn't make it easy.

You fail to see that unless that make CBR 2.0 something completely different it will never be more than what it is - a moderate level Disney resort. You failed to answer the question of "if we put this tower over at Pop does that make Pop a deluxe???" You and I both know the answer is no and the reason the answer is no is the same reason CBR won't be a deluxe.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As far as the building "really nice facilities"...the evidence they won't are the last 7 DVC's built...2 in particular

Saratoga was overbuilt and they still have to BEG people to book there...so they added the carousel "feature pool" during construction...that didn't work...so then about 10 years later they begrudgingly added the paddock pool and the grill...that sorts works...it's like pulling teeth. DVC's primarily operational goal is NO OVERHEAD...or at least minimum. It's always like that.

But let's look at wilderness lodge, shall we?

Occupancy (alledgedly) falls...so they convert. Makes sense. But they go all out: a couple hundred villas and more of these monstrosity high end "bungalows"

But when I hear about it...that they were changing the pool and added a new "signature" type waterfront restaurant...I was impressed.

So the pool is the standard dvc cookie cutter pool...not as impressed but ok. No big deal.

Then I read - just yesterday - that the new "restaurant" is a quick serve? And that roaring forks will close after?

So let me get this straight: they knocked down a bar to build a new place to serve Walt's chili with a bar and then gonna close the old one 100ft away?

Ok...that isn't much to sell the new points at 2x the old ones is it?

Dvc does NOT build big amenities for their units...they suck off the old ones. Not since Boardwalk in Orlando or aulani...those are the only two examples where it wasn't "bare minimum"

Way too much belief they want more overhead and employees than minimum at dvc. They don't.