parents not suing

[gwynne]

It's interesting that the foundation they are requesting donations to is "Omaha Gives" -seems like a blanket 501c3. I know it is very labor intensive, and time consuming to open a 501c3, so maybe they're processing that and will transfer funds from Omaha Gives to their foundation when it is established.

I think utilizing the in place resources of Omaha Gives and the Omaha Community Foundation was a very wise decision.

 

[gwynne]

How awful. I cannot even imagine.

I give people a lot of latitude in how they deal with grief. Some people need time and space. Some need routine and structure. I'm all about what works for them. My only point is that these parents should have the ability to decide their path without concern for the expenses of day to day living. Not everyone has the flexibility to pick and choose when to return and how to structure their work day to best suit their grieving process.

Important points.

Absolutely - I agree. Most of us who "work for wages" have some sort of HR policy that dictates bereavement leave. At my company the death of a close family member - spouse/child/parent - entitles an employee to one week paid leave. Anything else would need to be unpaid and I, for one, would have to get back to it in fairly short order.

And we would certainly hope that someone in the depths of grief would have sensitive co-workers and employers. Work quality can sometimes slide, not intentional of course. Someone who has experienced a profound loss has to be mindful of this, especially if they go back to work quickly.

The daughter is only 4 years old, hopefully this recollection will continually fade. No doubt, all of us want this little girl grow up having a happy and healthy childhood.

I thought about what I would do in the awful circumstance. No, I couldn't return. Too vivid, too heartbreaking. Even if I didn't go to the exact location, I would put my lost child in every aspect of the WDW Parks and Resorts. My mind would go to visions of the past, but sadness of how the child should be older and with us on vacation. For me, I could never return.

However, I can understand how some could find it healing. As PP's stated, dealing with loss and bereavement is very personal, there isn't a cookie cutter way of handling it.

I think growing up in small midwestern town will certainly help. To be healthy and happy is always the goal. While she may or may not recall bits and pieces of the events, the loss will gradually become a part of her life story as she grows.

 

[cabanafrau]

I've worked in insurance for almost 40 years in underwriting. I've read a lot of claim notes. This was a case Disney had no chance of winning. They knew the alligators were in the lagoon, I don't think that's disputed. They knew people waded in the water, they even had a brochure showing a couple walking in the water. The no swimming sign was ambiguous and obviously did not work because people continued to go in the water and they knew it. They knew people were feeding the alligators. They chose to ignore it. They have now setup fences and more specific signs, they are admitting what they had was not adequate. Cases involving a child's injury typically get sympathy from the court. There's no way they would try to defend this in court.

Exactly. Disney chose policies and allowed practices that left a fuzzy impression instead of an open and obvious danger that was absolutely clear in order to maintain the illusion of a happy and carefree environment. They would never have wanted this churning through the courts, the press and everybody's eyesight through a lengthy court chess match, that they would lose to boot.

 

[mom2rtk]

Exactly. Disney chose policies and allowed practices that left a fuzzy impression instead of an open and obvious danger that was absolutely clear in order to maintain the illusion of a happy and carefree environment. They would never have wanted this churning through the courts, the press and everybody's eyesight through a lengthy court chess match, that they would lose to boot.

I think even a win in the courts would have been a loss for Disney. I never thought this would end up in court.

 

[ronandannette]

Well we will have to agree to disagree here.
I believe they were negligent from both a moral and likely a legal standpoint

I agree. And any financial settlement aside, if Disney had not immediately taken steps to make the beaches safer and stop pretending the risk didn't exist, I'd have wished for the family to bring the legal wrath of God down on them in court. There's currently another thread going about an "unauthorized" directive to cast members to minimize the alligator issue in order to maintain the Disney "bubble". It's very telling as to just how negligent they were, IMO.

 

[minnie56]

I'm afraid I don't consider Disney negligent here ...
We should consider most bodies of water in the state of Florida most definitely have alligators in them.
I'm happy they now have signs ..and likely had it made the courts they would have lost on those grounds alone ..but the burden of responsibility I believe rests with us. Just my opinion

 

[NHdisneylover]

I'm afraid I don't consider Disney negligent here ...
We should consider most bodies of water in the state of Florida most definitely have alligators in them.
I'm happy they now have signs ..and likely had it made the courts they would have lost on those grounds alone ..but the burden of responsibility I believe rests with us. Just my opinion

I am pretty sure Florida has a statute in place that makes it so putting up warnings or other safety features after an incident cannot be seen as admission of any kind of guilt that such should have been known and up before. A very smart law which encourages bussiness to use the new information from the incident and quickly move to protect people.

That water has been around since the parks opened and people used to swim in it regularly at the resorts and at River Country; there was a awater ski show on it, etc---and gators, while present, never came up and attacked like this----so, perosnally, I think it is reasonable that this was not foreseen as the danger it turned out to be.

 

[mom2rtk]

I am pretty sure Florida has a statute in place that makes it so putting up warnings or other safety features after an incident cannot be seen as admission of any kind of guilt that such should have been known and up before. A very smart law which encourages bussiness to use the new information from the incident and quickly move to protect people.

That water has been around since the parks opened and people used to swim in it regularly at the resorts and at River Country; there was a awater ski show on it, etc---and gators, while present, never came up and attacked like this----so, perosnally, I think it is reasonable that this was not foreseen as the danger it turned out to be.

I also believe alligators used to be an endangered species in Florida. Disney knew things had changed substantially since then.

 

[fly girl]

And we would certainly hope that someone in the depths of grief would have sensitive co-workers and employers. Work quality can sometimes slide, not intentional of course. Someone who has experienced a profound loss has to be mindful of this, especially if they go back to work quickly.

This reminds me of a coworker (never met her as we weren't in the same city, but same department) that lost her 3 children and ex husband on Thanksgiving a few years ago in a private plane accident.

The company extended her leave, but employees wanted to give her more. We were able to donate our vacation weeks to her so she was getting paid and not losing benefits for the following year. Peers also set up an account for her at our credit union.

The support was overwhelming. I was so grateful that the company is a great one, but that it has such wonderful people who work for them. It's a family. Sappy, but true.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

I've worked in insurance for almost 40 years in underwriting. I've read a lot of claim notes. This was a case Disney had no chance of winning. They knew the alligators were in the lagoon, I don't think that's disputed. They knew people waded in the water, they even had a brochure showing a couple walking in the water. The no swimming sign was ambiguous and obviously did not work because people continued to go in the water and they knew it. They knew people were feeding the alligators. They chose to ignore it. They have now setup fences and more specific signs, they are admitting what they had was not adequate. Cases involving a child's injury typically get sympathy from the court. There's no way they would try to defend this in court.

I do not think anyone could prove Disney as criminally negligent. I do however think they would have paid through the nose in a civil suit, had it gone that route. And I'll just say that cases involving children in Florida do not typically have a good outcome.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I thought about what I would do in the awful circumstance. No, I couldn't return. Too vivid, too heartbreaking.

I agree. Obviously, the worst thing by far here is that they lost a child. But after I thought about that, it did also occur to me that they "lost Disney" - like when someone you love passes away on a holiday, and that holiday is never the same for you.

 

[mom2rtk]

I agree. Obviously, the worst thing by far here is they lost a child. But after I thought about that, it did also occur to me that they "lost Disney" - like when someone you love passes away on a holiday, and that holiday is never the same for you.

And Disney is everywhere in our world. They won't be able to get through a day without something triggering thoughts of Disney.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm afraid I don't consider Disney negligent here ...
We should consider most bodies of water in the state of Florida most definitely have alligators in them.
I'm happy they now have signs ..and likely had it made the courts they would have lost on those grounds alone ..but the burden of responsibility I believe rests with us. Just my opinion

What about the amoeba? Apparently it flourishes particularly at the shorelines. The signs read no swimming prior to this incident. It is a common occurrence for children to take their pails to water's edge, scoop up water to use in building sandcastles on the beach -- the beaches that Disney constructed to have exactly this kind of appeal.

You mention "we should consider", who is we? Don't forget, WDW pulls visitors from across the globe, many of whom have little to no idea about Florida. I've said it before, if I were traveling somewhere, being picked up at the airport and taken directly to a resort where my time would be spent touring theme parks and relaxing at my resort, I would think it reasonable to read guidebooks and information about the resort and never dream I needed to learn about wildlife in order to be well prepared. I've stayed at the Polynesian Resort several times and never have I had anything mentioned to me at check in or found information in my room alerting me to anything regarding wildlife at the resort.

 

[cabanafrau]

I do not think anyone could prove Disney as criminally negligent. I do however think they would have paid through the nose in a civil suit, had it gone that route. And I'll just say that cases involving children in Florida do not typically have a good outcome.

I think the discussion has been about a civil lawsuit, not criminal.

 

[PollyannaMom]

What about the amoeba? Apparently it flourishes particularly at the shorelines. The signs read no swimming prior to this incident. It is a common occurrence for children to take their pails to water's edge, scoop up water to use in building sandcastles on the beach -- the beaches that Disney constructed to have exactly this kind of appeal.

I thought you actually had to get the water up your nose for that to infect you. (But I'm not sure, so I still didn't let my kid touch it!)

 

[cabanafrau]

I thought you actually had to get the water up your nose for that to infect you. (But I'm not sure, so I still didn't let my kid touch it!)

But put together a small child and some contaminated water and how much of a stretch is it that you have a finger up a nose? I only understood within the past few weeks that if you contract that amoeba it is virtually guaranteed to be fatal. Did not realize that until the incident with the teenager on the rafting trip just recently.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I thought you actually had to get the water up your nose for that to infect you. (But I'm not sure, so I still didn't let my kid touch it!)

So did I, and deep up there, like when quickly submerging---and I thought the swimming ban was about that---no one had ht ought the gators were a real risk.

Yes, the population has gotten bigger, but that doesn't mean it would be assuemd gators woudl start heading into well populated areas to attack humans and such would be anticipated.

Of course, now we all know, and now Disney does and needs to warn people, but before? I don't see it. I see a horrific, awful, terrible thing that happened that no one is to blame for.

I wish nothing but peace and healing for the heartbroekn family.

 

[cabanafrau]

And Disney is everywhere in our world. They won't be able to get through a day without something triggering thoughts of Disney.

That's what flashed through my mind right after the incident. You're sitting, watching a movie or your favorite TV show, commercial break brings you the latest WDW promo with the glimpse of the GF to pour more salt in your wounds. It hurts to think about what these people are going through. Cannot imagine having to live it.

 

[pryncess527]

I'm no lawyer, but I did think Florida law was pretty clear on this point based on the articles I read -- landowners are not required to guard people against harm from wild animals unless they introduced those wild animals, and no one claims Disney brought or even encouraged the presence of alligators. As a company wanting to create a magical environment, knowing they have visitors from all over the world, having better signage is the right thing to do, but as far as I can tell they really have no legal obligation or culpability here. They might in other states, but Florida has laws protecting resorts from precisely this type of incident.

But please, Dis-Lawyers, correct me if I have misunderstood the reporting.

 

[DizBelle]

Well we will have to agree to disagree here.
I believe they were negligent from both a moral and likely a legal standpoint

So, if I get bitten by a rabid squirrel on your property, you are responsible right?