Overly involved parenting~ How did we get here?

[Just Jan]

I have a number of theories, some of which are from personal experience, some of which I made up. I won't tell you which is which.

1. A parent's worth is directly wrapped up in how much their child accomplishes -- if you did a good job, your kid will turn our okay.

2. Lack of a marriage/relationship -- there is nothing else to focus on.

3. Trying to do the opposite of what your parents did.

4. Remembering what you did at your children's ages.

5. Trying to save your child from failure and heartbreak.

6. Being a control freak.

7. Having the ability (whether time-wise or financially) to help your child.

8. Wanting the best for your child.

I'm not saying any of these are right/wrong, I'm just saying these are my ideas on the matter.

Bingo
4. Remembering what you did at your children's ages.

In high school my mom would ask if I had any homework. My answer, "No". I rarely brought home a book and if I did I didn't do all of the work. Now in hindsight I really wish I had applied myself. And I now wish I had gone to college.
I am very fortunate that my kids do homework on their own. Though I have learned not to ask if any or wha the deadline is as my youngest will bite my head off and tell me to mind my own business LOL. I just remember how I slacked off.

 

[RitaZ.]

Oh, I know you meant helicopter parents, you said that in your first post. I was just wondering what you have encountered them doing, kwim? I know of a parent who basically wrote their kid's college application essay. Very sad imo. I also know of parents who get their kids' final grades changed (not for a valid reason either.)

Sorry, I thought you hadn't read the first one. I live in an area where parents tend to be overly involved in their children's lives. It's like a measure of your effectiveness as a parent.

I have several examples...

There is my SIL, who is still supporting her adult children (in their 30's) and wants to run their lives. She told me that her children will never be financially independent. She likes it that way.

One of my friends chose what her son will study in college. He is now a Jr. in HS. The father is an engineer and the son is expected to become one, too. She has molded and groomed him into what she thinks he should be. Her motto is "Practice makes perfect". I have known her since 1993 and she still uses that phrase. The problem is that her son doesn't want to do what they have chosen for him. She wanted him in the gifted program in elementary school. He didn't meet the IQ requirement. She asked his teacher what she could do to place him in the program. So, she had him tested through private means, then he met the requirement. She spends a great deal of time planning what he does. There is a lot invested in him. She asked me if I had signed up DS for a nanotechnology class at my university. I told her that DS wasn't interested in engineering. She figured that DS would follow DH's career path.

Another mom I know did all the paperwork for her son before he entered college. It was obvious to me that he had no interest in attending college. She "helped" him choose his classes. He wanted to live at home, but she wanted him to live on campus to get the full experience. She went so far as to show up with her friend at his dorm to decorate it and they did. She would call him at school to make sure he didn't oversleep. He did terrible his first semester, so he lost his Bright Futures scholarship. She got in touch with a woman (through a client) that worked at the local CC. She wanted recommendations from her on easy classes that her son could take. Second semester was at local CC and he ended up dropping out. She was so over the top, but she couldn't see it.

Of course, there are the teens that I see at my university with mom and dad leading while they follow behind them. They do all the talking for their son or daughter. I'm embarrassed for their kids.

I guess these parents want to prevent those inevitable mistakes that are part of growing up. It's tempting to remove the obstacles that they have to face, but how will they learn to overcome them on their own if we rescue them?

 

[MrsPete]

As a teacher, I can assure you that this phenomenon is very real! All too many parents are overly involved. I do see the parents who are living through their children, especially with sports and clothing -- those parents tend to be the ones trying to live their lives through their teens. I do see parents who've "helped" their children with projects throughout elementary school, and the kids reach high school without really understanding how to set goals and work towards a finished project independently. Sadly, those parents seem to think they're doing something good, when in reality they're setting their kids up to need more help later.

How'd we get here? I think there are two big factors:

1. We've raised our expectations. That is, we've raised our expectations for everything: we expect to live in bigger houses, to go on nicer vacations, to drive nicer cars, to eat better food, to own better TVs and phones and other toys, etc. To look at just one example, consider appearance: It's no longer good enough to be dressed nicely; instead, ladies are expected to be thin, to have highlighted hair and professionally done eyebrows -- don't forget the tanning and nails. Clothes become outdated practically as soon as they're out of the bag. In about a hundred different ways, "average" is no longer good enough for us.

Of course, this translates over into parenting! It's not enough to raise a nice child with good manners who makes average grades. Instead, too many people feel the need to raise a perfect child with straight As, athletic ability, membership is a dozen clubs, and more! You don't get these results without pushing, and many people push too much!

2. We have fewer children and more conveniences around the house. My mom had five children, and a lack of money forced her to spend much of her time sewing, gardening, canning, and cooking from scratch. She literally didn't have time to micro-manage our lives, and it was good for us. We had to learn to stand on our own two feet.

In contrast, most of my friends today have only two childen, and though many work long hours, they have less to do at home. Many cook only occasionally, have yard services to do their lawns, etc. That leaves more hours to obsess about those two kids. Also, many of us today have more money than our parents did, and it's easy to spend-spend-spend on kids; though this isn't the same thing as hovering, it is closely related.


To argue the other side of the coin, it's absolutely true that there's "more" out there than when we were kids, and it's easier to make mistakes -- and many of those mistakes are really, really hard to escape. Kids absolutely need guidance, and parents have to walk a fine line. When does guidance become enabling? The line is probably different for each kid and each situation (for example, my 6th grader breezes through all her homework -- except for math, and there she needs lots of extra help). Every parent makes a mis-step now and then and gives too much or too little; the key is to find that right balance.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

The end result of helicopter parents are kids who can't leave the nest, and when they try, fail because they can't keep jobs. . .

Whatever reason it's going on, I think it's self-limiting. The parents that do this will have kids who won't have kids en masse, and even if they do, I don't think many of those kids will have kids.

Essentially my point is (and I DO have one!) that true helicopter parents raise children who cann't thrive independently as self-sufficient adults. The adult children who cannot rise above being nutured by helicopter parents will not have children or will have less children than their non-helicopter parented peers. Those who can overcome this obstacle in their development will likely choose NOT to raise their own children in this manner. So the phenomenon of helicopter parenting is likely self-limiting.

OTOH, as a current phenomenon, I do feel sorry for the kids of helicopter parents and wish there was some way to apply some sense to their parents (I dunno, sneak common sense drops into their coffee or something? )

 

[Planogirl]

There's a lot of this in our town too. Parents who will not leave their kids alone to play on their own, parents who take their kids everywhere no matter how much the kids might hate it, parents who constantly schedule every second of the kids' days,...the list is endless. I refuse to do those things because it is not only stifling for a child IMO but the parents very often don't have much else going for them either.

It's possible to nurture and guide a child and yet everyone still ends up being well-rounded. It's just the overdo that I don't understand.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

I personally feel that there is no such thing as perfect parenting. It varies from families and sometimes from child to child. I prefer to be part of my childrens lives. I want to be there for all there accomplishments. I will guide them if they need it, but other than coloring I have never done their assignments. Truthfully the caliber of classes and projects are far beyond my reach. I kept an extremely open communication with my kids and personally know more about them and their friends than most of their friends parents. I know who's who and what's what. All the kids confide in DH and myself. My motto is for every action their is a reaction, whether it be good, bad, or indifferent.

My major downfall was my lack of teaching life skills to my kids. I did not make them do chores etc. We are just starting to teach them how to use the washing machine, cook, clean, etc. They are 13 and 16.

The bottom line is that we are happy. Perfect, definetely not (DS raises his voice to me and I have yet figured out how to stop it) but I think if you were to ask them they would be grateful for how we ran the household.

 

[dansamy]

I'm a big believer in raising my children to be able to "fend for themselves". (Aka "fostering independence") In my house, that means you have chores. If you do your chores, you get your allowance. If you don't do them, your allowance is "paid" to the person who did do your chores. All of my children understand the basics of laundry, dishwashing, simple cooking, sweeping/mopping/vacuuming. Some are more capable in certain areas than others. There's really not a lot of coddling here. I expect them to be able to do things for themselves. So they do.

 

[shortbun]

Growing up, I had strict parents. There were rules that we had to follow. They expected certain behavior from us. They were never all over us about homework, school projects, etc. If we needed supplies or special things to get projects done, my dad would take us to the store, the library (no internet then), etc., to get what we needed. The work was entirely on us. We were good students. They taught us to be independent by allowing us to fail and learn from our mistakes.

I believe that nowadays, many parents are overly involved in their children's lives. I have 3 children: 17, 13 & 11. I don't believe in planning and controlling every aspect of my children's lives. I believe that the more we do for our children, the less they will do for themselves. I have seen this with my own kids. As much as it hurts me, I have to step back and let them make their mistakes. They won't learn any valuable lessons until they hit a few bumps on the road.

I don't believe that being a helicopter parent makes one a better parent nor produces stronger, self-sufficient children. I believe it has the opposite effect on children.

So, what prompts parents to be so controlling and hypervigilant? Is it guilt? Is it love? Is it fear? Are parents afraid to allow their children to make mistakes? Do we believe that our children aren't capable of making the right decisions/choices without our help and guidance every step of the way? What is it?

Opinions?

Some of us learned from the mistakes of our non-involved parents. I work at NOT helicoptering but I do try to be there to support my son. He's always been very capable at independence and asking for help when he needs it. If I err on the 'being too involved' side, I feel it's preferable to the alternative which I experienced in excess. My son has disappointments, failures and setbacks on a fairly normal basis. I'm there to bandage a knee, bolster a bruised ego or explain how to avoid that problem in the future. My 13yo knows how to do laundry, clean a bathroom or a kitchen, pack a bag, clean a refrigerator, cook a meal....he learned all those things by me being present, not by trial and error.
What breaks my heart the most are the children who are being ignored-no parents at the game, no parent at the awards banquet and so forth. The studies I read said children with involved parents were more confident. Children with a parent present at school had more reason to work hard. Hey, we could complain about anything but to me it seems weird to complain about kids who DO have parents in their lives.

 

[NAB]

As a teacher, I can assure you that this phenomenon is very real! All too many parents are overly involved. I do see the parents who are living through their children, especially with sports and clothing -- those parents tend to be the ones trying to live their lives through their teens. I do see parents who've "helped" their children with projects throughout elementary school, and the kids reach high school without really understanding how to set goals and work towards a finished project independently. Sadly, those parents seem to think they're doing something good, when in reality they're setting their kids up to need more help later.

How'd we get here? I think there are two big factors:

1. We've raised our expectations. That is, we've raised our expectations for everything: we expect to live in bigger houses, to go on nicer vacations, to drive nicer cars, to eat better food, to own better TVs and phones and other toys, etc. To look at just one example, consider appearance: It's no longer good enough to be dressed nicely; instead, ladies are expected to be thin, to have highlighted hair and professionally done eyebrows -- don't forget the tanning and nails. Clothes become outdated practically as soon as they're out of the bag. In about a hundred different ways, "average" is no longer good enough for us.

Of course, this translates over into parenting! It's not enough to raise a nice child with good manners who makes average grades. Instead, too many people feel the need to raise a perfect child with straight As, athletic ability, membership is a dozen clubs, and more! You don't get these results without pushing, and many people push too much!

2. We have fewer children and more conveniences around the house. My mom had five children, and a lack of money forced her to spend much of her time sewing, gardening, canning, and cooking from scratch. She literally didn't have time to micro-manage our lives, and it was good for us. We had to learn to stand on our own two feet.

In contrast, most of my friends today have only two childen, and though many work long hours, they have less to do at home. Many cook only occasionally, have yard services to do their lawns, etc. That leaves more hours to obsess about those two kids. Also, many of us today have more money than our parents did, and it's easy to spend-spend-spend on kids; though this isn't the same thing as hovering, it is closely related.


To argue the other side of the coin, it's absolutely true that there's "more" out there than when we were kids, and it's easier to make mistakes -- and many of those mistakes are really, really hard to escape. Kids absolutely need guidance, and parents have to walk a fine line. When does guidance become enabling? The line is probably different for each kid and each situation (for example, my 6th grader breezes through all her homework -- except for math, and there she needs lots of extra help). Every parent makes a mis-step now and then and gives too much or too little; the key is to find that right balance.

Very well said!!

 

[golfgal]

I think schools expect us to be very involved, otherwise our kids' grades suffer. I frequently get notes home that say my son needs to organize his binder. I am expected to sign off on his homework and reading logs that say I checked/acknowledged his homework and he did his reading. That's for my 4th grader. For my second grader, I have had to do many projects (I say, "I", because not many 8 year olds can just whip up a model & a habitat of an animal by themselves). I get endless notes, X needs to work on this or that.. The studying is insane, there is no way a kid can do all the studying that is expected on their own. We do a TON of teaching at home, too. I understand that there is so much curriculum to teach and not enough hours to teach everything..and that's why there is so much we still need to teach at home. I get that, I do. But still, it frustrates me sometimes how much work is expected out of me.

I think this is a result of the helicopter parenting vs the cause. So many parents what this much control/involvement that the schools have just adopted this for everyone.

Honestly, I think the whole helicopter parenting began when Michael Jordan started making millions to play basketball. People saw that as a get rich idea and started pushing their kids into sports, which then moved into academics and through their entire life. If you look at the posts here about choosing colleges everyone posts about getting their child into the "best" school, not the school that is right for their child. They talk about all the time and money spent on tutors, college test prep courses, etc. so they can get into the 'best' schools. Heck, even talk about how to get your child into the "best" preschool. I also think that if your child gets into the 'best' school, some people think that makes them a better parent vs having a great kid.

 

[AmazingGrace]

I very much believe that the ultimate goal of parenting is to work yourself out of a job. I want my kids to not need me when they’re adults, except for encouragememt, advice or moral support. I think kids need to learn to take care of themselves.


I never taught my kids stranger danger. I teach my kids stranger safety. i think it’s important that my kids learn to trust other adults around them. I’m not always there and they need to know that not everyone is out to get them. I’ve taught my kids that when they need help or get lost that they should ask someone with a child for help( a mom)

I’ve also taught my kids to trust their intuition and that it’s okay to err on the side of caution. If something or someone makes them feel uncomfortable, then they need to listen to that voice.

I also believe in natural consequences. If my child asks for a special lunch, I remind the child to take the lunch and the lunch is forgotten, then the child can go through the lunch line. Same with homework. After about second grade, if homework is left at home, it stays at home and the child receives whatever penalty results in that. With my oldest, that happened one time before he became more mindful of where his homework was.

I also don’t have my kids in a bunch of extra curriculars. They come home from school, do their homework, have a snack, then they play with each other, ride bikes, shoot hoops, or whatever. it does my heart good, to see my daughter and her friends playing dolls on our front porch, very much like i did at her age.

It is hard though, having a chronically ill child and knowing where to draw the line. we’ve learned over the past few years with our son to let him take the lead and we don’t treat him like he’s sick. When he’s absent, he makes up the work and he gets disciplined and treated the same as his brother and sister. I love my kids so much it hurts. I feel like freedom, independence and learning to live in the world is one of the best gifts I can give them.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

My DD11 has 3 new "friends" who are between 9-11 who run the streets after 8pm on a school night, their parents don't care. one girl has to repeat a grade last year and another has to partake in summer school.
They talk to their parents as if they are the grown ups. I am quite sure they think I am mean, because if you come to my house after 8pm on a school night, you wil be told to go homebecause my DD isn't going out.
I also don't play a child talking back to me, whethr it is my kid or her friends. It takes a village as the saying says.
Parents want their kids to be their friends and even though no real parent should want to see their child let down or have a rough time, too many parents want them to be shielded from everytning.
My DD does her projects by herself, by honestly, I am not that artistic and I did my time in school and had to do projects by myself.

I would not allow my daughter to associate with kids like this. Absolutely would (and have) put my foot down about who they associate with.

Your strongest influence as a teenager is your peer group, not your parents (as it absolutely was for me), so as long as I can have a say in who they hang out with, and explain to them WHY these kids are a bad idea to hang out with, I totally will.

I've had a few backtalking smartasses show up at my house. The first time they were disrespectful to me I explained to them that I expect respect and good behavior from them. Then they threw one of my younger daughter's breakable toys down the stairs, so I called the parent and said, "I'm afraid you're going to have to come pick up your daughter, the playdate is not working out well." The mom was mad at me, she was like, what did you do to make my daughter mad at you? Whatever, nutjob.

So, not only do I not want my kids associating with those kids, I don't want to deal with the parents, either...

 

[Darsa]

I know for a fact that I have been overprotective of my daughter as she's grown up. She's now 13, and I feel badly that she's now learning the hard way that she has to learn to do things on her own to become a productive part of society, and that there won't be anyone there to set a plate of dinner in front of her, bring her her cleaned clothes, etc.

In our new neighborhood (well, not "new" but we've been here since August 08) we have found that there are kids here who are NOT well brought up, balanced individuals; there are some SERIOUS issues with some of these kids, and this is becoming quite the eye-opener for her.

I will probably still be overprotective of my one and only child; I can't help it, she'll always be my baby. But for her own good I'm going to be making sure that she knows what's what in the real world, so that she can fend for herself when she's old enough.

 

[Claudia1]

I haven't had the time to read all of the responses, so if I repeat somebody..... sorry!

As a 55 yr old parent/custodial grandparent, I see that the changes in our society have impacted my parenting. When I was growing up, society had standards and there was an accountability outside of the home. It was understood that elders were respected, teachers had authority, and responsible behavior was expected. Yes, my life was lived with consequences and the benefits of good or bad choices. However, society was an extension of my home, not at conflict with it.

Over the last 22 years of parenting, I see more and more that a majority of kids have no authority, respect for it, or believe in any type accountability. Therefore, as a parent, I take a larger role in their lives to teach, guide, and be aware of their lives and who is impacting them. For example, if I was not involved with our DGD's class, I would not have seen that she was one of the minority of children that knew to respect her teacher. She sees that others don't listen and she wants to follow suit. My high school son sees the same things. He sees others doing things that are not right and getting away with it because "it is my life and I will do what I want". Years ago, that would have resulted in swift punishment both at school and at home.

A case in point is WDW. There are more happy, cooperative guests there than at other theme parks. One of the main reasons is that good behavior is expected and shown byt the CMs. You don't see as many bands of roving teens there.

I do not agree with the whole helicopter parent thing, though. Each child should be responsible for their own actions.

I am just saying that I am more involved with my kids because I want them to learn to be responsible citizens with standards. Without my input, they will assimilate society's morals.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Children and families are different.... I really tire of all the ongoing argument... either it is 'deadbeat' negligent parents, or 'overinvolved' helicopter parents. Everybody on one side or the other, pointing fingers.

1. Different children need different levels of parental involvement.
My son is one of those children who needs (and wants) a higher level of my guidance and involvement. If somebody who does not see the whole picture wants to label me some kind of neurotic, overinvolved, helicopter parent. then, hey... whatever....

2. We are living in different times. Ohhhh, I know that there is nothing new under the sun... but our society and the way we live ARE different. The levels of expectations that are being placed on our children are just unheard of. And, so are the opportunities out there for our children which can bear serious consequences. For the child who is simply not up to these challenges (whatever the reason)... a sink-or-swim approach could result in catastrophic failure.

3. YES, if my 6 year old son's teacher sends home projects and assignments that are completely beyond what is age-appropriate... and actually EXPECTS parents to be 'hands on' with their child's education... then it is easy to feel that I MUST be involved. The demands and level of involvement that were expected of my son and myself (DAILY interaction with teacher, project after project... initialing daily folders, etc.. ad-nauseum) were one of the reasons that I chose to remove my son from the school. This 'involvement' was a burden that I was very very happy to shed....

Believe me, all the time and effort that I put in was NOT because I was smugly and gleefully trying to make sure that my little snowflake was better than everybody else, and not because I was some neurotic parent who secrectly longed to be a child again and live vicariously thru my child.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Reading through this I do not have any idea what sort of parent I am.

When the kids were younger I sat with them every day doing homework. Now it's automatic that they do it when they walk in the door and I no longer want to or need to check it. The grades are good and we only do team (kids + me) assessments if something starts to slip otherwise its hands off. I do not go through book bags or folders, that is their private space and unless they give me a reason not to trust them I will trust them.

I do not habitually help with projects or check their work any more but I do remind them to check their work. I will not redo bad homework but I will absolutely help my kids with dopey busy work like word finds.

When the kids were younger I sat at every playdate and discussed with them their behavior & their friends behavior and feelings etc until I was blue in the face. Now I let them choose their own friends. I meet everyone and will ask what they do or don't like about each kid, I will absolutely say what I think (he's a bully, she's disrespectful, he's funny, she's sweet) but tell them the decision is theirs.... because I know it is.

I do make sure I know where my kids are and who they are with at all times, but I don't need to know the contents of every conversation.

I do buy all their clothes so I do have veto power and I will say no if I don't like something, but if DS wants to wear plaid shorts with a mis matched zig zag shirt or if my DD wants to wear her hair in kooky braids I will bite my lip and let it slide.

As for being a competitive parent, sometimes I get caught up. But I always try to bring myself back to earth remembering EVERY parent thinks their kid is the best kid in the world and, to me, that truth is a bit sobering. After all, I don't think any parent in the world ever heard another parent brag and said to themselves "That's amazing, I wish I had your kid instead of mine"

The way I see it, it's my job to send 2 good human beings out into the world who are capable of being successful both professionally and personally and in order to do that they need to feel good about themselves. I made my choices and am happy with them, now it's their turn. In the end the only person who has to be happy with my DS's choices is my DS, and the only person who has to be happy with my DD's choices is my DD.

 

[Trixie15]

I haven't had the time to read all of the responses, so if I repeat somebody..... sorry!

As a 55 yr old parent/custodial grandparent, I see that the changes in our society have impacted my parenting. When I was growing up, society had standards and there was an accountability outside of the home. It was understood that elders were respected, teachers had authority, and responsible behavior was expected. Yes, my life was lived with consequences and the benefits of good or bad choices. However, society was an extension of my home, not at conflict with it.

Over the last 22 years of parenting, I see more and more that a majority of kids have no authority, respect for it, or believe in any type accountability. Therefore, as a parent, I take a larger role in their lives to teach, guide, and be aware of their lives and who is impacting them. For example, if I was not involved with our DGD's class, I would not have seen that she was one of the minority of children that knew to respect her teacher. She sees that others don't listen and she wants to follow suit. My high school son sees the same things. He sees others doing things that are not right and getting away with it because "it is my life and I will do what I want". Years ago, that would have resulted in swift punishment both at school and at home.

A case in point is WDW. There are more happy, cooperative guests there than at other theme parks. One of the main reasons is that good behavior is expected and shown byt the CMs. You don't see as many bands of roving teens there.

I do not agree with the whole helicopter parent thing, though. Each child should be responsible for their own actions.

I am just saying that I am more involved with my kids because I want them to learn to be responsible citizens with standards. Without my input, they will assimilate society's morals.

I agree with this and will offer what happens next when the kids go off to college:

My dh is a police officer and one of the special details that they have is to go to bars/clubs that are local to some of the colleges around the Chicago area. The point is to arrest students trying to use fake ID's to get into bars.

Dh says that the generation of people he is dealing with have simply never been exposed to or expected to respect or follow even this level of authority. The kids he busts are loud, whiny, and honestly expect to be let off the hook for this crime. He says that it's obvious that this experience is the first time they have EVER encountered a true authority figure in their lives. They really think they can talk or even fight their way out of it, and they are always SO shocked when the police come down a little aggressively when they try to fight (like if the student throws a punch - the cops don't like that very much and the student often gets taken down to the ground and handcuffed which is a HUGE shock to these entitled kids.)

Anyway - I think helicopter parents and entitlement go hand in hand. These kinds of parents just can't stand to ever see Johnny unhappy, so they bend over backwards to give him everything he wants - they're the parents in the principal's office saying that Johnny would never skip class - he's too much of a good kid! And then they get out from under mommy's wing and lo and behold - the real world kicks them in the butt!