Once again, a school, a shooter....and we do the drill yet again.....

[MamaMermaid]

There is lots of research already, and more coming out all the time, about the negative effects of social media.

From the top psychiatric hospital in the US:
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/it-or-not-social-medias-affecting-your-mental-health

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...visited-Graveshams-youth-service-trip-UK.html

Absolutely. And, it would help if guns weren't easily accessible.

 

[White Cat]

Absolutely. And, it would help if guns weren't easily accessible.

Guns have always been easily accessible. Even more so in the past. There was very few problems in the past. But there were few to no social ills in the past. We had hunting rifles on the school bus. Now you can’t have a butter knife.

 

[leahgoogle]

One of the reasons I did not mind lockdown for Covid even one bit - I never had to worry about my kid getting shot when he was just at the kitchen table.

This country sucks in so many ways.

I can't imagine being so scared of my kids going to school that I didn't mind a mandatory lockdown. Has there ever been a shooting at your school? Or, in a neighboring school? I'm just trying to understand what circumstances have caused you to want your child to be locked down vs in school. It is a sad situation now in our country.

 

[GreatLakes]

During the assault weapon ban (1994-2004), mass shooting deaths were an average of 4.8/year.

2005-2017 they were 23.8/year. Let's not pretend it didn't work.

While I think guns are a part of the problem what was the mass shooting deaths/year before 1994 when there was no ban? If that number isn't significantly higher than 1994-2004 the expiration of the ban can't be the sole contributing factor. Personally I have no problem re-instating the ban and if it was put to a vote I'd vote for it but I also don't think that would bring these down to the same level as pre-2004 or even pre-1994.

The vast majority of my schooling was before 1994 and I didn't go through one single active shooter drill. It wasn't even on my radar. I'm sad my son has to have these drills but I really don't worry about his safety all that much either. He is in much more danger on the ride to and from school even with the frequency of mass shootings.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

One of the reasons I did not mind lockdown for Covid even one bit - I never had to worry about my kid getting shot when he was just at the kitchen table.

This country sucks in so many ways.

Sad to say but kids around here get shot sitting in their houses - drive by shootings - billets go thru house kill someone
They are on street - drive by shooting at someone else they get killed
Just this week 2 yr old got gun in car shot and killer himself at auto parts store
This is not just a school issue for some cities - I could name several but no sense - it’s a major problem that crosses several issues - no one answer
Yes back in old days kids had access to guns - but we didn’t have the internet so we didn’t always know what was going on three states over let alone in Canada or Europe - times are a lot different - stressors have changed

 

[Moliphino]

Guns have always been easily accessible. Even more so in the past. There was very few problems in the past. But there were few to no social ills in the past. We had hunting rifles on the school bus. Now you can’t have a butter knife.

Gun ownership has increased a lot over the years. We have more guns than people in the US now.

 

[CdnCarrie]

There is lots of research already, and more coming out all the time, about the negative effects of social media.

From the top psychiatric hospital in the US:
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/it-or-not-social-medias-affecting-your-mental-health

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...visited-Graveshams-youth-service-trip-UK.html

Right. And I'm not disagreeing with that.
By why would social media make young people in the USA mass murderers but not in other countries?
It's probably a small factor but not the main factor.

 

[White Cat]

Sad to say but kids around here get shot sitting in their houses - drive by shootings - billets go thru house kill someone
They are on street - drive by shooting at someone else they get killed
Just this week 2 yr old got gun in car shot and killer himself at auto parts store
This is not just a school issue for some cities - I could name several but no sense - it’s a major problem that crosses several issues - no one answer
Yes back in old days kids had access to guns - but we didn’t have the internet so we didn’t always know what was going on three states over let alone in Canada or Europe - times are a lot different - stressors have changed

I would move.

 

[Colleen27]

Thoughts and prayers, mental health, yadda yadda. Nothing will change. Just a matter of time 'til the next one.

Meanwhile, the usual suspects want to talk about "hardening schools" and armed guards. The school where this shooting took place has metal detectors, a single point of entry and multiple guards. I'm sure they'll work better next time.

First, if you're going to post statistics, it's a good idea to link to your source.
Second, using your logic, that should mean the time before the assault weapons ban would have had an increased number of mass shooting deaths. Let's see...
Source
View attachment 713838
OK, according to that site, we never got over 15 mass shootings, so that doesn't match where you got an average of 23.8/year. BUT, if you look before '94, there were 17 in the decade before the ban. There were 17 during the ban. But the numbers don't match your claims, so let's look elsewhere...

That chart shows a clear pattern, though - mass shootings ticking up, ban implemented, they drop. Still some, an imperfect solution, but a very low level. Then the ban is allowed to expire and they basically skyrocket so that the bad years before and during the ban would be good years now. Not that it matters as long as people believe that we were an oppressive dictatorship for those years when a kid who can't even buy a beer couldn't go out and pick up an assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammo on a whim.

 

[Dakota731]

Unfortunately you can’t legislate crazy. And you can’t make someone get mental help who doesn’t want to go. Many of these young shooters have had horrific family lives where no one was interested in getting them well. The suicide rates among young people are at record highs, and many of these mass shooters are trying to kill themselves by cop. So maybe we need to look into the causes for the despair among our youth as well.

 

[mumto3girls]

Thoughts and prayers, mental health, yadda yadda. Nothing will change. Just a matter of time 'til the next one.

Meanwhile, the usual suspects want to talk about "hardening schools" and armed guards. The school where this shooting took place has metal detectors, a single point of entry and multiple guards. I'm sure they'll work better next time.



That chart shows a clear pattern, though - mass shootings ticking up, ban implemented, they drop. Still some, an imperfect solution, but a very low level. Then the ban is allowed to expire and they basically skyrocket so that the bad years before and during the ban would be good years now. Not that it matters as long as people believe that we were an oppressive dictatorship for those years when a kid who can't even buy a beer couldn't go out and pick up an assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammo on a whim.

You often have a way of saying something that I am thinking but would struggle to say clearly and when reading through a thread and I come across your name I look forward to your thoughts on whatever the topic is.

I wish I could like this one a thousand times. Thank you.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Meanwhile, the usual suspects want to talk about "hardening schools" and armed guards. The school where this shooting took place has metal detectors, a single point of entry and multiple guards. I'm sure they'll work better next time.

7 security guards.

 

[Colleen27]

Semantics, I know, but it wasn't an AR-15, it was an "AR-15 STYLE". Not sure why the actual rifle wasn't mentioned, other than a picture that was tweeted out.

I've said before and I'll continue to say, as for gun control and laws, what is needed is UNIVERSAL laws. I'm from Massachusetts and they have some of the strictest laws, while other surrounding states are more relaxed. Other states have little to none. Drivers licenses are universal, so should LTC's.

And why doesn't the other common denominator ever get mentioned (other than "assault rifle/gun)? Terms like "loner", "anti-social", "no friends", "didn't fit in"..... the list goes on. Many are quick to blame the tool, but not the tool handler. I also don't understand why any other type of "mass killing" never get the same attention or discussion? There was one recently that was outside the US, and didn't involve a gun (no AR or any other type of firearm). It was posted here but only had a handful of replies. No hate, no anger, no cries of government needing to do more, nothing. Why? Are only certain tragedies worthy of discussion and outcry?

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, so be it.


Edit to add: it was a mass stabbing in early September in Saskatchewan, Canada.

"AR-15 style" is probably being used because the police aren't verifying any specifics about the weapon used so the reporting is based strictly on visual assessment from a distance and from witness reports.

And as far as your other common denominator, it doesn't get mentioned because it is something that is often said in the immediate aftermath but then doesn't hold up on closer examination. From Columbine to Oxford, at least some of the initial reporting talked about the shooters as loners, friendless, victims of bullying, only for it to come out later, when fellow students started telling their stories that the shooter was a bully, had at least a few other bully-friends, and wasn't well-liked because of the way they treated others.

Now, if we want to get into difficult territory on another common denominator, maybe we could start with why nearly every mass shooter is a white male who makes himself out to be the victim in his own story. Lots of other groups get a lot harsher treatment by the schoolyard bullies of this world, but you don't see them running out to the gun store to solve their problems.

Guns have always been easily accessible. Even more so in the past. There was very few problems in the past. But there were few to no social ills in the past. We had hunting rifles on the school bus. Now you can’t have a butter knife.

That is a fascinating perception of the past. When was this paradise on Earth?

 

[sam_gordon]

That chart shows a clear pattern, though - mass shootings ticking up, ban implemented, they drop. Still some, an imperfect solution, but a very low level. Then the ban is allowed to expire and they basically skyrocket so that the bad years before and during the ban would be good years now. Not that it matters as long as people believe that we were an oppressive dictatorship for those years when a kid who can't even buy a beer couldn't go out and pick up an assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammo on a whim.

Which chart are you referring to? I posted two. They BOTH show that during the ban, mass shootings stayed about the same (compared to the previous decade). One even has the trend line that has been rising pretty consistently (not showing any drop).

Aren't there laws that already prohibit minors from purchasing weapons? Wasn't this latest shooter in his 20s if not 30s? Haven't many of the shooters obtained their weapons illegally?

I'm not saying gun laws shouldn't be looked at. But there is no ONE solution that will prevent the next shooting.

 

[GreatLakes]

Thoughts and prayers, mental health, yadda yadda. Nothing will change. Just a matter of time 'til the next one.

Meanwhile, the usual suspects want to talk about "hardening schools" and armed guards. The school where this shooting took place has metal detectors, a single point of entry and multiple guards. I'm sure they'll work better next time.

How those safe-guards failed does need to be investigated. Those are only as good as enforcement and policy. If other doors are left unlocked or the detectors are ignored they aren't any good. I have to be buzzed into my child's school to pick him up and there is a door camera. If I'm buzzed in and hold the door opened, or if the person doing the buzzing just opens it for everyone even if they don't recognize them, that is a failure of implementation. They might as well not have it.

If the protocols and policies aren't strictly enforced and audited frequently they are not security, they are just security theater.

 

[pookybean]

This is the first time I'm hearing about this. Im on social media quite a bit, and yet the first time was when I log onto the dis.

Is it so common that we don't even give (ineffective) thoughts and prayers anymore?

 

[GreatLakes]

Right. And I'm not disagreeing with that.
By why would social media make young people in the USA mass murderers but not in other countries?
It's probably a small factor but not the main factor.

I'd look into the genocide and ethnic cleansings that have at the very least worsened if not outright planned on social media. Using the terms Myanmar, genocide, and Facebook in a search will give you some interesting reading. This book is on my reading list but I listened to a podcast with the author and he does a good job talking about the ills of social media. I want to be clear that I don't really "blame" social media. At the end of the day it is just a tool and you need to be smarter than the algorithm, but in order to really prevent yourself from going down that path you need to be cognizant of the dangers.

It is a complex issue and attacking only weapons or only mental health or only isolation or only social media isn't going to move the needle all that much.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I don’t want to start a war but it’s not criminals it’s not about guns - it’s mental illness - this country decided thanks to big ins that mental illness was to expensive and did away with so much coverage
Try getting into a Dr - I live in town where this happened - it can take up to and over a year to get an appt to see a Dr - that’s with ins - maybe you don’t care for the Dr - great you got another year until you may get spot with another Dr
You get 15 mins with Dr - they push a pill at you - get a counselor - guess what ? You will be months getting one of them too
What if pill doesn’t work ? Back to Dr you don’t care for - could be months to get back in - try another pill
Your ins may not cover more than 8 visits
Emergency mental health - absolute JOKE - don’t even get me started - I’ve dealt with all of this for 57 years - way too many rules way too much for people already struggling - you had better be loaded with cash you will need it even if you have ins
A majority of inner city homeless are mental patients - nowhere to go
These people self medicate with drugs & alcohol - it’s a vicious cycle - crime to get money for the drugs & alcohol - I’ve watched the psych ward just ditch them at the door - off you go into the streets
If someone is suffering YOU can’t always tell OR know - don’t fool yourself and think you can or say - they should have known - grossly unfair
These people are expert at hiding what is going on with them - lying - most put up very good fronts until it’s too late
Not everyone knows or thinks I need to be spying on EVERY aspect of my love one’s life and verifying it every minute of the day - which is what you would need to do
The readily availability of guns in this country does not help - gun law - so if you have ever been committed you can’t legally purchase gun from a STORE but you CAN from a gun show - you can have someone else get one - all the laws in the world are not going to stop this
Dealing with the issues that ARE causing This is what will Help this - otherwise we are putting a band aide on a BIg Hole in a Huge Damn
These are MY thoughts and My experiences - you are Free to think and feel anyway you want to and think I’m wrong and crazy and I respect that - I only request - please no fighting war - I’m just stating this country does not value mental illness and it’s a big factor in these incidents - it needs to be addressed
We ALL need to keep these issue up to try and get them to stop - the incident is horrible but the incidents trigger trauma which can lead to - mental illness - in kids life long problems !
I pray for healing to ALL the kids & families impacted by this tragic horrible incident I fear we are getting to used to these things and that in itself is a problem

I will agree regarding mental illness but marry criminal are addicts and mentally ill. We also have a bit of an anger and hate problem in our county Which isn't addressed in a positive way ....just more fuel thrown on the fire.

We Have many gun laws but enforcement is a different subject.

 

[Aladora]

Semantics, I know, but it wasn't an AR-15, it was an "AR-15 STYLE". Not sure why the actual rifle wasn't mentioned, other than a picture that was tweeted out.

I've said before and I'll continue to say, as for gun control and laws, what is needed is UNIVERSAL laws. I'm from Massachusetts and they have some of the strictest laws, while other surrounding states are more relaxed. Other states have little to none. Drivers licenses are universal, so should LTC's.

And why doesn't the other common denominator ever get mentioned (other than "assault rifle/gun)? Terms like "loner", "anti-social", "no friends", "didn't fit in"..... the list goes on. Many are quick to blame the tool, but not the tool handler. I also don't understand why any other type of "mass killing" never get the same attention or discussion? There was one recently that was outside the US, and didn't involve a gun (no AR or any other type of firearm). It was posted here but only had a handful of replies. No hate, no anger, no cries of government needing to do more, nothing. Why? Are only certain tragedies worthy of discussion and outcry?

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, so be it.


Edit to add: it was a mass stabbing in early September in Saskatchewan, Canada.

Well, as a Canadian I guess I will jump in and give my thoughts.

My guess as to why the stabbings in SK didn't get many replies? Because it was in Canada and not in the States. Not to say that anyone here cares less about people in Canada, just that there are so few of us here as compared to Americans. Trust me, it was talked about within Canada. I live in BC and when this happened we were about to send two staff to Alberta, not too far from the border between AB and SK. One of those staff members happens to be Indigenous and trust me, there were some pretty serious discussions about whether or not we should send either of them but in particular, that specific staff member. In the end, the person responsible for the stabbings died before our staff was set to fly out so they did end up going but it was a concern for sure.

I'm not going to offer my thoughts about why USA has so many school shootings as compared to other countries, I think we all know that there is no one single reason and rather there are many factors that go into this including mental health issues, lack of Universal Healthcare, and yes gun control laws. I will say that I consider myself lucky that my son is in grade 12 and in all his years of school, he has never had to experience a lockdown drill or an active shooter lock down. Earthquake drills yes, active shooter ones no.

Although, he has had to go through multiple lock downs in his years at school all but one of them were for cougar sightings near his school. The one that didn't involve a cougar was instead because of an aggressive dog in the neighbourhood!

 

[kymom99]

How those safe-guards failed does need to be investigated. Those are only as good as enforcement and policy. If other doors are left unlocked or the detectors are ignored they aren't any good. I have to be buzzed into my child's school to pick him up and there is a door camera. If I'm buzzed in and hold the door opened, or if the person doing the buzzing just opens it for everyone even if they don't recognize them, that is a failure of implementation. They might as well not have it.

If the protocols and policies aren't strictly enforced and audited frequently they are not security, they are just security theater.

We have an active shooter video we are supposed to watch at the beginning of every year. This year I guess they forgot. They literally sent out an email yesterday, October 25, telling us we need to watch it by November 1st.

The real shame of this is the verification. Every other online training, we are forced to go through the videos and take a quiz after. We can’t get the certificate unless we do that. With the active shooter, we just have to fill out a google form saying we watched. How many people do you think will really watch?