OKW pool slide

[Richyams]

Desperado, please post the link where Disney says they will pick up all ongoing costs.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Desperado
Acutally the slide itself probably won't affect me that much either. I just don't look at the world with "it's all about me, heck with everyone else" glasses, especially in a case like this where the slide is not completely coming out of OKW dues.

The maintenance, staffing, insurance and upkeep are coming out of my dues, without any input from me. As far as I know they aren't coming out of yours since you haven't told us yet where you own points, although based on some of your old posts I would guess Vero Beach.

Originally posted by Desperado
We've always gotten our first resort request and we have used our points to stay at non-home resort. My opinion is that the slide won't be as bad as some are trying to make it out to be.

How can anyone have an opinion as to how bad the slide will be since Disney hasn't decided the membership deserves to see an artist's rendering of it yet? Also, if you never stay at OKW, why do you care how 'bad' the slide is or if there is even one there?

Originally posted by Desperado
Those opposed haven't presented reasonably valid and substantiated reasons in my opinion, with some stooping to name calling, and citing some ancient 5+ year old poll that is no longer valid, and claiming non-OKW owners don't have any right to express thier opinion on the slide matter. Sorry, but that's hogwash (in my view).

The only poll we have to go by is the old one. Disney won't poll the members again since they probably know the answer that they will get and they will put this slide in regardless. You can certainly express your opinion on the fact that OKW doesn't have a pool slide, just don't presume that (unless you own points there of course) the OKW members should change their resort to make it more appealling to people who bought elsewhere.

Originally posted by Desperado
I've regularly read about OKW owners expressing opinions about other DVC resorts, certainly about issues like the small rooms, and long, long hallways, the exclusivity aurgument just doesn't wash either. There have not been limits imposed that posters are only allowed to comment about thier home resort and none of the other resorts that I'm aware of, especially for posters who stay at other DVC resorts as part of thier total DVC purchase options.

Comment away. Your opinion is yours to express as is mine. I would never expect the DVC to change your resort to make it appeal to me.

Originally posted by Desperado
Please correct me if I'm wrong. You may notice an absence of excessive resort defensiveness in other "changes" threads in comparison.

Maybe there is an absence in the 'changes' thread, but I have read a number of threads from you and your opinion on OKW is crystal clear.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Richyams
Desperado, please post the link where Disney says they will pick up all ongoing costs.

Desperado hasn't even told us where their home resort is yet. I think we will be waiting for this link for a while.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
I have never ever had the need for a pool slide or diving board in all my years of swimming. God only knows how I survived my younger years without one. Of course back in my younger years ( I am one day older than dirt) children managed to amuse themselves without their parents pandering to their every whim. We went to a pool with the family and had fun, we went to the beach, no slides there and had fun. If we were bored we read a book or found something to do. I would hope that kids could manage to do the same now.

Wow Gail, that was how it was for me too! I travelled a lot as a kid. Stayed in a lot of different resorts that were considered nice. I don't recall having a big themed pool slide, yet I did manage to have fun. In fact the only pool slide I ever remember using as a kid was the one at the Polynesian and that wasn't a pool slide like today. How strange. I remember just enjoying being on vacation and swimming. Sure pool slides may be nice for kids, but I seriously doubt that not having one would ruin their vacation.

 

[PKS44]

There is one reason the slide is going in and is the reason Disney does anything--MONEY. Cash paying guests seem to prefer having slides/pools with more than just water--it does not matter what most of OKW owners like or are happy with---irrelevant to Disney's primary mission as stated by Mr Mike himself--to promote growth and shareholder value-

Disney feels they can make more money by putting in a slide...End of discussion...the unhappiness of current OKW members is unlikely to lead to much financial damage to Disney---certainly never as much as they hope to make by making the OKW resort more appealing to cash paying guests.

If someone feels they can formulate a cogent argument as to how this is not in Disney's best financial interest there is a chance to stop it...otherwise--it's coming and somehow those who are unhappy with it--the ones who brag about their ability to put up with the hardship of enduring family vacations without poolslides---they will have to dig down into that same inner strength and now learn to live with a resort that has a pool and a slide.

 

[DSNY FN]

I as a kid travelled alot and I mean alot I played travel hockey and was all over the province of Ontario and most northern states from Min to the east coast. Every resort/hotel we stayed at had a pool slide not quite like the ones at Disney but a slide none the less we never booked a hotel or resort that didn't have one. It was almost like a pre requisit to us staying there as a family and as a hockey team we usually stayed at the Holiday inn with the holidome it had mini golf and a pool slide etc. We made sure the host team made arrangements for us to be in such a hotel. In grade 6 my team traveled across the US for 6 months and played in every NHL city along the way and had a free NHL game every night we were able to get to on ein every city it was an amazing experiance this was all paid for by our association and our fundraising along with the team hosting us. So we now look for accomodations on a vacation that meet those standards as that is what we have become acustomed to.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by Desperado
Acutally the slide itself probably won't affect me that much either. I just don't look at the world with "it's all about me, heck with everyone else" glasses, especially in a case like this where the slide is not completely coming out of OKW dues.

Point 1: Oh, puhleeze. DVC is all about different strokes for different folks. Tens of thousands of people willingly purchased an ownership in OKW knowing that there was no slide. And theirs are the ONLY OPINIONS THAT MATTER. I realize that trading into other resorts is part of our priviledges under this program. But do you not see what is really at stake here? The mere fact that DVC is choosing to flex its muscles in a manner that is not truly consistent with the likely desires of the OWNERS of the resort is a real danger sign. To heck with resort hopping. The owner of OKW should be able to see their resort run in a manner consistent with THEIR desires. The same holds true for BWV owners, BCV owners, and so on.

If the "majority rule" of the entire DVC membership were used to manage decisions for each of the resorts, we would have 5 virtually identical WDW resorts. That's not the program that I bought into.

Point 2: Approximately $200,000 in annual costs for lifeguard staffing, insurance and maintenance on the pool slide over the next 38 years is nearly $8 million in costs that OKW owners must bear. DVC is getting off EASY by paying the install fees themselves.

I happen to think a slide for OKW is a good idea, regardless of how often I stay at OKW or where I pay dues, especially given the positive polite responses I've read where some posters are saying they are more likely to stay at OKW with a new slide, and are excited about it. More power to them. Those opposed haven't presented reasonably valid and substantiated reasons in my opinion, with some stooping to name calling, and citing some ancient 5+ year old poll that is no longer valid, and claiming non-OKW owners don't have any right to express thier opinion on the slide matter. Sorry, but that's hogwash (in my view).

The only problem with this argument is that unless you are an OKW owner YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER.

I happen to agree with you that the slide is probably a good idea. However MY OPINION DOESN'T MATTER.

I stand by the comment I made months ago which is that if DVC knew that 50.1% of the OKW membership would have voted in favor of a slide, there is no way they would be paying a dime for its installation. DVC wanted the slide so DVC is getting the slide, at a cost of millions to the collective owners of the resort.

Not that it matters, but we don't even know for a fact that the majority of DVC owners would agree that OKW needs a slide. A couple dozen affirmative replies on a message board is a pretty small representation of 80,000+ members.

I've regularly read about OKW owners expressing opinions about other DVC resorts, certainly about issues like the small rooms, and long, long hallways, the exclusivity aurgument just doesn't wash either. There have not been limits imposed that posters are only allowed to comment about thier home resort and none of the other resorts that I'm aware of, especially for posters who stay at other DVC resorts as part of thier total DVC purchase options.

Expressing an opinion is one thing. But using those scattered opinions as an advocate of change is quite another.

Should the BWV owners be asked to absorb the burden of a peoplemover installation to deal with the "long corridors"?

Should the owners of VWL have to absorb the burden of upkeep if DVC decided to make the rooms 25% larger than they are now?

There is nothing wrong with people sharing their OPINIONS regarding other resorts, both good and bad. But to think that the owners of a resort should have to pay in order to bring their resort further into compliance with the will of the masses is wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Well said.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by PKS44
it's coming and somehow those who are unhappy with it--the ones who brag about their ability to put up with the hardship of enduring family vacations without poolslides---they will have to dig down into that same inner strength and now learn to live with a resort that has a pool and a slide.

That's the point. It isn't a hardship for me to endure a family vacation without poolslides. Maybe it is a hardship for parents of kids who apparently can't have a fun time on vacation without a pool slide.

You are right, the slide is coming. Disney has decided it will. They apparently have the right to do so. I don't have to like it. Will I learn to live with it, yes, I guess unless I sell I have to, right? The biggest thing that concerns me is the underhanded way Disney is handling this. Disney should inform ALL the OKW members they are doing this, why they are doing this at the very least. It would have been nice to have had some member input in this. Heck, they let us pick the name OKW back in the day. Now they can't be bothered to ask us what we think of a slide or how it looks even.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by tjkraz
The mere fact that DVC is choosing to flex its muscles in a manner that is not truly consistent with the likely desires of the OWNERS of the resort is a real danger sign.

Thank you tjkraz for this very concise and to the point sentence. This is it in a nutshell. Wait until Disney decides to pull this at one of the other DVC resorts and we shall see everyone's opinion then. What if Disney sells VB to the Hilton sisters and VB members can't stay at DVC properties, or if Disney decides to alter the Boardwalk in some substantial way. I am sure there would be some concerned people then.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by tjkraz


The only problem with this argument is that unless you are an OKW owner YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER.

TheOWNER of OKW is DVC and ultimately Disney. The members who purchased at OKW are essentially long term renters--they do not OWN the property. So, if only the owner's opinion counts--the owner appears to have made that opinion very clear.

Paul

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by PKS44
TheOWNER of OKW is DVC and ultimately Disney. The members who purchased at OKW are essentially long term renters--they do not OWN the property. So, if only the owner's opinion counts--the owner appears to have made that opinion very clear.Paul

That's not quite accurate, as I have a title and deed stating that I am an owner until 2042. I don't own the ground the resort sits on, but I do own a portion of several buildings at the resort. I am also expected to pay for the upkeep of the property as an owner including any additions (like a slide) and have a statement showing just how much that upkeep costs each year. No mention is made in my deed that I'm a renter. DVC is simply the managing entity (DVC doesn't "own" anything). The property was developed by DVD- a subsidiary of Disney.

Perhaps some need to re-read their documents. DVC members do actually own something and are free to bequeath it, give it away or sell it. Try doing that with a rental property.

If your DVC documents indicate that you are only a renter, I will gladly apologize. Mine clearly states that I'm an owner.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by PKS44
TheOWNER of OKW is DVC and ultimately Disney. The members who purchased at OKW are essentially long term renters--they do not OWN the property. So, if only the owner's opinion counts--the owner appears to have made that opinion very clear.

Paul

Thanks for arguing semantics and completely missing the point of my post.

The fact is that DCV SOLD an ownership interest (their words, not mine) in OKW to thousands of people and reprsented that ownership to be based upon one set of criteria. They are now arbitrarily changing the criteria to the financial hardship of that membership base.

Owner...Renter...call it what you will. It's still a very dangerous precedent when DVC flexes those muscles with no regard for the will of the folks who OWN (there, I said it) OKW for the next 38 years.

(BTW, if you really want to argue semantics, Disney Vacation Development 'DVD' actually constructed the resorts and would be footing the bill for this pool enhancement. DVC is simply the timeshare management company. Oh, and DVC members DO actually OWN OKW until 2042, at which time ownership reverts back to DVD.)

 

[DrTomorrow]

Originally posted by tjkraz
[...] They are now arbitrarily changing the criteria to the financial hardship of that membership base. [...] It's still a very dangerous precedent when DVC flexes those muscles with no regard for the will of the folks who OWN (there, I said it) OKW for the next 38 years.[...]

I agree with tjkraz, et al, here, but as a new SSR owner, I'm curious - is this whole 'OKW Slide' issue the first such time that DVC/DVD/Disney has acted in such a unilateral fashion?

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
I agree with tjkraz, et al, here, but as a new SSR owner, I'm curious - is this whole 'OKW Slide' issue the first such time that DVC/DVD/Disney has acted in such a unilateral fashion?

Not that I can recall. At least not something of this magnitude. I assume this will set the precedent for other things that Disney decides to do unilaterally. Disney has eliminated little 'perks' at OKW recently like placemats and cloth napkins but apparently the other resorts didn't have them. For all I know other DVC members may have complained about their lack of these perks at their home resorts and that's what caused them to be removed.
The other thing Disney did years back was start charging for extra towels and additional soap and coffee at OKW. Disney SURVEYED the owners and EXPLAINED to us that these towels and freebies were adding to dues and allowed the MEMBERS to decide if we should charge for those who use them or have the entire membership eat the cost. Fancy that, letting the members decide how they want things to be at their resort.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by sgtdisney
Disney SURVEYED the owners and EXPLAINED to us that these towels and freebies were adding to dues and allowed the MEMBERS to decide if we should charge for those who use them or have the entire membership eat the cost. Fancy that, letting the members decide how they want things to be at their resort.

But even that survey was more or less worded to guarantee the outcome they wanted. Something along the lines of "Do you want to pay higher dues to pay for people who ask for excessive numbers of towels?" Why yes, of course I do!

To my thinking, if Disney asks a question, they already has an answer in mind. I'm sure they were stunned when the answer to the slide was "no". I also figured it was a matter of time before the question would be revisited.

I am resigned to a slide and hopeful that it will be in keeping with the resort. I am bothered by the lack of communication from DVC and the fact that they have not shown any plans for what they have in mind.

 

[dianeschlicht]

To my thinking, if Disney asks a question, they already has an answer in mind. I'm sure they were stunned when the answer to the slide was "no". I also figured it was a matter of time before the question would be revisited.

I definately agree with that, Pam! I think they just decided not to ask the question this time. I also think that "leaking" the slide information at the annual meetings was a way for them to onofficially test the water. I am sure they have a pretty good idea by now if folks are going to accept it or not. I also think that the fact they have not officially announced it means it might not actually be written in stone yet. I suspect they need legal advice about it too, before everything is done.

 

[DSNY FN]

Pam I tend to agree with you on that aspect of Disney in general doesn't usually ask the question unless they know how to word it to attain agreeance from the people being asked, It could be this reason they have not asked the question yet. I am sure the pool slide will be very tastefully done they don't often build ugly attraction slides or otherwise not to say they don't do some tacky looking things but not usually. I personally like the looks of the slide at BWV not everyone likes the look of the clown or the thought of sliding down the slide and exiting from a large clowns mouth but hey everyone has their own tastes. As for the dues I for one would be willing to pay a little higher dues across the board if they feel that something needs to be done to rehab or make something better for the whole of DVC then hey I have no problem with that I own 2 properties now and use them all so why shouldn't we all have an equal share in paying dues at all DVC resorts mae it one blanet set of dues for all members that covers all resorts then we won't have any thing to realy complain about.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by PamOKW
But even that survey was more or less worded to guarantee the outcome they wanted. Something along the lines of "Do you want to pay higher dues to pay for people who ask for excessive numbers of towels?" Why yes, of course I do!

I totally agree with you here. I am sure they knew what the reply would have been. However it was better, in my opinion, that they presented the options and said we can continue this 'perk', but it is effecting your dues and we will have to raise them. It was nice to have a choice, as 'slanted' as that choice was.

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
I also think that the fact they have not officially announced it means it might not actually be written in stone yet. I suspect they need legal advice about it too, before everything is done.

I certainly hope you are right and that they have heard the complaints of the OKW Membership who know about this slide and are opposed to it.