OK, the next time that someone complains about President Bush politicizing something

[AirForceRocks]

The expression on her face was revolting too. She did not have one ounce of a look of concern for "her husband." If the sound was muted would you have known that Clinton was about to have major surgery. If it was me I would not have been smirking like that. Blech.

To clarify my position, I didn't see anything out of the way at all about her or her statement prior to her statement about the insurance. I thought she looked relaxed, and she seemed very confident in the doctors, the hospital and prognosis. As I said before, she was very gracious in her remarks thanking people, and she suggested that if people wanted to leave messages for the President, they could go to his foundation's website and leave a message. I didn't infer from her words or her demeanor that she wasn't concerned, but rather that she had full confidence in a good outcome for her husband.

It was just the final comments about the health insurance that left me cold. I thought it was absolutely the wrong venue for such comments. As I posted above, she could have accomplished the same thing while she was out making her campaign speeches for Senator Kerry. I just think the timing was atrocious.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I don't have a problem with her making that statement/off hand remark. I do find it remarkable that people hate her enough to bother remarking on it at all.

 

[rcyannacci]

I'm goin to try very hard not to write anything too hateful here, but this is an incredibly insensitive post to anyone whose been through a major surgery or illness recently. I have recent, first hand experience with have to deal with insanity of insurance claims, hospital bills, deductibles, etc....when you are sick and scared of the future, the current process does little to make you feel any better. This is something that needs more public exposure, and I for one am grateful to any public figure, especially a strong woman, to bring health care back into the public consciousness.

People wonder why Republicans get a bad reputation for being insensitive and uncaring? Well, it's posts like this that continue to drive that image. You think Clinton is abusing her position to make political statements? For crying out loud, she IS a politician. And, she's spent a good deal of her time fighting for the benefits of patients- all of a sudden, she doesn't have the right to make a statement of belief when she finds her family in this situation?

As an American, you can usually be assured of falling into some predicable demographics in terms of what taxes you pay, what programs you have access to, etc. But you never know when you might become a patient, someone facing a serious illness. And, if you or any of your family members do, I expect that you will suddenly be very interested to know which politicans have supported patient's rights and which have supported HMOs and the people making $ off of health care.

 

[AirForceRocks]

I do find it remarkable that people hate her enough to bother remarking on it at all.

I don't hate her - I don't even know her. I disagree with almost all of her policies, because if I wanted to live in a socialist country, I'd move to one. But I don't hate her at all.

You think Clinton is abusing her position to make political statements? For crying out loud, she IS a politician.

I think you need to calm down and re-read what I've written. I think it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make a political statement. She came out there to make the statement on his condition as HIS WIFE. Could she not have the same point at a later time, when she was out campaigning for Senator Kerry?

And, she's spent a good deal of her time fighting for the benefits of patients- all of a sudden, she doesn't have the right to make a statement of belief when she finds her family in this situation?

Of course she has the right to do that - I've never said that she didn't. And I have the right to say that I think it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make such a statement.

and the people making $ off of health care.

You don't think that people should be making money off of health care? Do you expect the doctors to work for free?

I'm goin to try very hard not to write anything too hateful here, but this is an incredibly insensitive post to anyone whose been through a major surgery or illness recently.

Please point out to me where I said anything insensitive about people that have been through a major surgery or illness? For that matter, how do you know that my family isn't going through a major illness at this time? You don't, do you?

My comments were directed at Senator Clinton and Senator Clinton only. If you took them to be directed at you or at anyone else that is going through health problems, that's your problem, not mine.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Disney Doll
Abracadabra, believe me when I tell you, as a nurse for 21 years in a fairly large urban hospital, anyone who needs quadruple bypass gets it, whether they have health insurance or not. Most of the folks I care for don't have it, and they get the exact same level of care as the insured.

.

Even IV Drug abusers get multiple valve replacements, courtesy of the tax payer. Talk about self inflicted wounds!!

 

[Hagred]

I think what's truly bothering conservatives about this particular 'political' statement is that it happens to be true. Bill Clinton IS lucky to have insurance to cover this procedure. 43 million Americans do not.

I guess this falls under today's politically correct agenda:

It's not WHAT you say - it's when, where and how you said it.

If you can't take issue with the absolute truth of a statement, go after when, where, and how the statement was issued as well as attacking the character of who made the statement in the first place.

 

[AirForceRocks]

I just want to make sure that I've got all of this straight...

Senator Clinton using her husband's illness to score political points - Good.

Me pointing out that she used her husband's illness to score political points - Bad.

Does that about sum it up?

 

[ripleysmom]

"talking about a national tragedy in the midst of a political campaign to point up the differences between how two different candidates would handle such a tragedy"

And they would know how Kerry would have handled things how?

But in any case that is not what I was referring to.....


"vs. using what was billed as a personal statement from the former President's wife to update the nation on his condition to push a political agenda (not social, political - let's not kid ourselves)."

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I have to admire her for continuing to try to improve the lives of people without health insurance.

 

[AirForceRocks]

It's not WHAT you say - it's when, where and how you said it.

Speaking for myself, yes, absolutely.

I think she could have made the exact same point, at a different time, in a different venue (such as a political rally, during a campaign speech, etc), and I would have thought it was a great way to get the point across in a personal way. But to say it when and where she did...like I said, I think it was in very poor taste.

If you can't take issue with the absolute truth of a statement, go after when, where, and how the statement was issued as well as attacking the character of who made the statement in the first place.

Where did I attack her character?

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Please remember Senator Clinton's statement outside the hospital tonight. She was very gracious, and thanked everyone for their good thoughts, etc.

And she ended by saying that it helps to have good health insurance and that she hopes someday soon everyone will have good insurance.

Nice job Senator Clinton - nothing like using a press conference about your husband's medical condition to push your political agenda.

Above it what you said. Some of us feel that having good health
coverage is the right of all Americans, that it is available and
affordable. Hillary Clinton feel that way too and as someone who
knew she was facing a major crisis, she was aware how lucky
she was and simply stated that. You think this is wrong!?
How will she personally profit from it? What makes it wrong?
Next you will find a way to say the whole thing was staged to
let her plug available and affordable health care. You are the
one who needs to calm down. Quit looking for things, there are
plenty of real issues to discuss.

 

[AirForceRocks]

And they would know how Kerry would have handled things how?

We don't know for certain how he would handle, but based on his statements and his history in the Senate, we can certainly hypothesize.

I have to admire her for continuing to try to improve the lives of people without health insurance.

Though I disagree with her, I admire her for standing by what she believes in. But I think it was the wrong time and place to do it.

 

[Hagred]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I just want to make sure that I've got all of this straight...

Senator Clinton using her husband's illness to score political points - Good.

Me pointing out that she used her husband's illness to score political points - Bad.

Does that about sum it up?

What? Are you trying to draw someone into calling you bad, hence they're personally attacking you and should be banned from here? Please don't put words in people's mouths.

No, this is the standard political BS that goes on ad infintum on many boards. It's ALL bad. Everyone's pushing their own agenda, which is to be expected.

I think Senator Clinton had an opportunity to drive a point home and she did this splendidly. I don't think she did it to 'shill' for Kerry. I think she was honestly grateful for the safety net of insurance and shared her concern for what may have been if they didnt have this safety net.

As you so often say, you can espouse your opinion but don't expect everyone to agree with you. If I were to turn the question around and say: "So this is what it is - AFR is good and we are bad", I can only imagine the response from you. (Which would probably be very similar to my first response)

 

[MinnieYC]

In response to the original post, I don't see anything wrong with Senator Clinton's statement. It's a matter of opinion.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Nice job Senator Clinton - Nothing like using a press conference about your husbands medical condition to push your political agenda.

Sounds like character assination to me.

 

[AirForceRocks]

What? Are you trying to draw someone into calling you bad, hence they're personally attacking you and should be banned from here?

You've got to be kidding...

No, I was simply responding in small words and short sentences to a couple of the posters that have said that they couldn't believe I had brought up what Senator Clinton said.

As you so often say, you can espouse your opinion but don't expect everyone to agree with you.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Not only would that be unrealistic, it would be extremely boring.

If I were to turn the question around and say: "So this is what it is - AFR is good and we are bad", I can only imagine the response from you.

Since you don't like people putting words in your mouth, then don't put them in mine. I never said nor implied that any person on this thread was good or bad, I was talking about what was said being good or bad. As I said above, I was just boiling down to small words and short sentences the couple of responses that took me to task for daring to post that I thought what Senator Clinton said was inappropriate for the setting.

You think this is wrong!?

I think that for her to say it when and where she did was wrong, yes.

Next you will find a way to say the whole thing was staged to let her plug available and affordable health care.

I sincerely hope that you don't plan to make your living as a mind reader, because such a thing would never occur to me. Odd that it would occur to you, though...

You are the who needs to calm down.

I think if you look through what I've posted on this thread, I've been very calm. I've displayed none of the hysteria exhibited by those that have chosen to read into my words things that aren't even there.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks


(1) I think you need to calm down and re-read what I've written. I think it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make a political statement. She came out there to make the statement on his condition as HIS WIFE. Could she not have the same point at a later time, when she was out campaigning for Senator Kerry?

(2) Of course she has the right to do that - I've never said that she didn't. And I have the right to say that I think it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make such a statement.

(3) You don't think that people should be making money off of health care? Do you expect the doctors to work for free?

(4) Please point out to me where I said anything insensitive about people that have been through a major surgery or illness? For that matter, how do you know that my family isn't going through a major illness at this time? You don't, do you?

(5) My comments were directed at Senator Clinton and Senator Clinton only. If you took them to be directed at you or at anyone else that is going through health problems, that's your problem, not mine.

To address your 1st point- your statement suggest that when any woman is playing the role of "wife," she needs to restrict herself to comments about her husband. That's insulting. The media has turned their cameras toward her, and she has the right to express herself as a wife, a politician, a mother...whatever she sees fit to say, as you point out next.

2nd point- certainly you have the right to think this was inappropriate, but that doesn't put you on any higher moral ground. You're both playing politics at that point- she with her public statement to support the Democratic party, you with your recontextualization of that statement to support the Republicans.

3rd point- I didn't say people shouldn't make money off of healthcare. I pointed to Republicans as being concerned more with the money-makers than with the patients themselves.

4th- You're obviously twisting my post here to make it look like I accused you of something that I didn't. For the record, if you or your family is going through a health crisis, I wish you all the best and my deepest sympathies. I don't wish that on anyone. You insinuate that because I have an emotional investment in the topic that somehow prevents me from thinking logically. But emotions are an amazingly motivitating force, and can win campaigns. Republicans know this just as much (or more than) Democrats.

5th- I'm truly amazed by this statement. I can only refer you to my original reply: "People wonder why Republicans get a bad reputation for being insensitive and uncaring? Well, it's posts like this that continue to drive that image."

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Sounds like character assination to me.

Then perhaps you should learn more about what constitutes character assassination.

I think what she did was wrong, and I said so. That doesn't mean I'm calling her character into question. I know plenty of people that do things I think are wrong, but that doesn't mean I think they are of poor character.

 

[Gupsmom]

I could absolutely see her making a statement similar to what you just made, after the surgery, i.e. "During my husband's hospitilization, we encountered many families that didn't have the kind of coverage we have. We are committed to seeing that all families have this kind of coverage, and that's we want to see Senator Kerry elected".

People use personal tragedy to push through an idea they feel passionate about all the time. How different is this from the father of Megan Nicole Kanka pushing for Megan's Law. Everytime a child is killed by a released convict Megan's law is brought up. Is that an inappropriate time to remind people how important sex offend registration is. What about the Amber alert? Is it wrong, when a child goes missing, to remind people how important it is to support the Amber Alert system? What about John Walsh? He has used the tragdey of his son's death to support countless important causes. Do you think that enviromentalists wouldn't use an oil spill to drum up support for a pro-environment candidate? How about the death of an innocent man being used to fight against the death penalty?

You might say "just because it's been done before, doesn't make it right." One point in your favor...There are many families touched personally by the tragedy of 9/11 that didn't like President Bush using what happened to their love ones as a platform to build support for a war that has nothing to do with 9/11. So, I guess I see your point. Or is this another time that republicans only find it wrong when a democrat is the one doing it but manage to find no flaw when a republican is doing (or has done) the exact same thing.

Besides....you might not be thinking too clearly if you just found out your husband, who you thought was healthy, needed major heart surgery. It just might cross your mind that it's a damn good thing you have the insurance to cover it and you might blurt out something that has been a major compassionate cause for you for over 12 years...that everyone deserves good health care!

Jess

 

[Hagred]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I think if you look through what I've posted on this thread, I've been very calm. I've displayed none of the hysteria exhibited by those that have chosen to read into my words things that aren't even there.

Cool! So based on your thread title ("OK, the next time that someone complains about President Bush politicizing something") we now know what to expect from you when people post about President Bush using 9/11 as a plank in his platform.

"Well, Senator Clinton was pushing health care reform when her husband was in the hospital for bypass surgery. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

Is that about it?

Like I said before - another BS political thread like so many others on so many different boards. I can't even blame the time of year because these kinds of threads happen no matter WHAT time of year it is.

 

[AirForceRocks]

To address your 1st point- your statement suggest that when any woman is playing the role of "wife," she needs to restrict herself to comments about her husband. That's insulting.

Apparently, you are easily insulted, and I can't help that. But I stand by my belief that when a person is coming out as a private citizen to make a statement about a personal crisis or issue, I expect that person to stick with that and not launch into a political point.

2nd point- certainly you have the right to think this was inappropriate, but that doesn't put you on any higher moral ground. You're both playing politics at that point- she with her public statement to support the Democratic party, you with your recontextualization of that statement to support the Republicans.

How did I "recontextualize" her statement? I just posted what she said.

I pointed to Republicans as being concerned more with the money-makers than with the patients themselves.

No, what you said was that people should know who support those that make $ off of health care. People are always going to make $ off of health care, and when that stops happening, then watch the quality healthcare in this country take a nose dive.

4th- You're obviously twisting my post here to make it look like I accused you of something that I didn't.

I am? How could I possibly have twisted what you said when I used the same words that you used? To refresh your memory, you said:

I'm goin to try very hard not to write anything too hateful here, but this is an incredibly insensitive post to anyone whose been through a major surgery or illness recently.

So please tell me, what did I say in my OP that was incredibly insensitive to anyone that has been through a major surgery or illness lately?

5th- I'm truly amazed by this statement. I can only refer you to my original reply: "People wonder why Republicans get a bad reputation for being insensitive and uncaring? Well, it's posts like this that continue to drive that image."

Then perhaps you could please point out to me where in my OP I directed any comments at anyone other than Senator Clinton? And since I didn't, then perhaps you can take another stab at explaining how my OP was incredibly insensitive to those that are going through major illnesses? And if you are unable to do that, then perhaps you can explain to me how I'm wrong when I say that I can't control how you take my statements?

Bottom line on your (5) above is that in my OP I NEVER directed comments at ANYONE other than Senator Clinton, yet you took them as insensitive to anyone that is going through a major illness (your words, not mine). How exactly did you make that leap? And once you did make it, how is that my problem? That was YOUR thought process, not mine, and I'm not responsible for your thought processes.