Not sure I'm getting why FP+ is "limiting" peoples experience.

[mom2rtk]

This wasn't the case on our recent visit. We have an 8 year old who eagerly accepted the challenge to stay at MK until 3am based on the promise of lower crowds. We left, wide awake, at 2:45am when we realized the crowds would not be thinning out.

That's a disappointing report. I chalked up our disappointing PM EMH to the fact that the park closed at 11, so EMH only went through 1 AM. If it doesn't empty out by 2:45, there really isn't much hope.

Maybe it's because EMH is now 2 instead of 3 hours?

 

[Rileygirl]

Thanks Angel Ariel!

That is happening unbelievably fast.

Wow, freakin brilliant. Never saw that coming. Wow. Brilliant.

In one fell swoop, Disney has taken away the fast pass perk for 'everybody' and tiered it, so it is a perk for the onsite guest. And has done it in such a way that the general off site guest does not even really realize it yet. (because the off site guest will always be getting the 'leftovers', and the onsite guest will be getting better offerings, if they choose to play)

It also forces the off site guest to use the new system, if they want ANY fp at all. Its All stick in training the off site mice! No incentive for pre purchasing the ticket needed! OMG, this is truly a bold move.

Its like watching the most brilliant game of chess, bean counters vs the world.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Disney created the monster by offering Original Recipe FP in all its glory in the first place. They GAVE people, for free, this wonderful product, for 14 years...and now for them (or anyone else) to act shocked that people are disappointed and feel limited by taking it away and replacing it with the new system is kind of ridiculous.

This is it exactly.

 

[skater]

Definitely limiting to me. We used to go to Disney relaxed (other than getting up early which we want to do on vacation anyway). We were able to choose which rides we wanted to do based on what we felt like. We could get fp's as we needed them and there were no long lines for attractions like SE, POTC, etc. (off season). I went in October and was limited by choices made long ago and longer lines for little attractions I could usually count on riding quickly. How is that not limiting? If the final product is something like this one, we will never feel as "free" at Disney as we used to. How is being unable to ride a lot of rides not limiting?

 

[morethananyonex]

Thanks Angel Ariel!

That is happening unbelievably fast.

Wow, freakin brilliant. Never saw that coming. Wow. Brilliant.

In one fell swoop, Disney has taken away the fast pass perk for 'everybody' and tiered it, so it is a perk for the onsite guest. And has done it in such a way that the general off site guest does not even really realize it yet. (because the off site guest will always be getting the 'leftovers', and the onsite guest will be getting better offerings, if they choose to play)

It also forces the off site guest to use the new system, if they want ANY fp at all. Its All stick in training the off site mice! No incentive for pre purchasing the ticket needed! OMG, this is truly a bold move.

Its like watching the most brilliant game of chess, bean counters vs the world.

You never saw it coming? People have been predicting it coming for a looooong time now lol. It's been inevitable. I've been following the FP+ discussion for a few months, and it really wasn't done that quickly. IMO it was actually a long time coming. Disney is pulling off the bandaid painfully slow, and I say that as someone who has a trip in about a month and would love to use FP-.

This limbo state of FP+ and FP- is frustrating to people planning their trip. I would love to know what the situation is going to be during my trip. Just roll out the damn thing already so we can start using it as it's intended to be used.

 

[Mkrop]

It seems like the only option that those who love FP+ give for us "crazies" (my own words ) who want to ride Tower of Terror 20 times is to go during EMH hours. Well before, we could do it whenever we wanted. Why pay a full day's admission if we're just supposed to go during the 3-4 extra hours? When not even all of the rides are being offered during those times (I just read somewhere Splash Mountain isn't offered during EMH anymore?! WHAT? Being from Chicago I always thought it was hilarious to watch people say it was too "cold" to ride in 50-60 degree weather at night!)

I do stay onsite but someone who stays offsite used to be able to ride rides over and over vis FP- without EMH. And I love the suggestion to just go to EMH, ummm offsiters can not do this....Limiting for them.

I'm not sure a person can judge the ability to change things around based on one experience. It could be hit or miss. Some times it might be available and others it might not. I was there the same time you were and was able to do so twice for headliners.

I think I read that you traveled solo, correct? If not I apologize, but you as a solo traveler being able to change a FP+ is quite different than a family of 4 trying to make that work, and for us it did not.

Why is ok for others to give their anedotal evidence that they could change their FP+s on the fly but you are discounting that my family could not

 

[Laketravis]

This limbo state of FP+ and FP- is frustrating to people planning their trip. I would love to know what the situation is going to be during my trip. Just roll out the damn thing already so we can start using it as it's intended to be used.

I can certainly understand how it can make planning difficult, especially for someone such as yourself making the jump across the big pond...

But I think there is an enormous amount of pressure on them to get it fully implemented because a lot of internal promises and projections were made and now those bean counters have to follow up with results.

Quite the difficult position to be in, having to plow ahead with something that isn't working quite like it was intended to and not being able to slow the train down. It's been consuming an awful lot of resources with requests for more with the rationale that even more are required to make it work properly.

For example, six CM's with iPads around a single FP+ kiosk is a new expense. Multiply that by the hundreds if not thousands of new expenses throughout WDW and one can only imagine how huge the payoff has to be.

At some point very soon, the mess will be big enough that the big enough person will make the necessary decisions.


(Disclaimer: the above is provided for informational purposes only, and is based on a recent visit comprising 17 days of visual and physical FP+ participation. It is in no way an endorsement, critique, expression of like, dislike, hatred, or disdain of any portion of the process in whole or in part. Past performance is not indicative of future results, and the right to change and or adjust the recommendations herein based on any and all adjustments made by external parties is reserved)

 

[michsig]

I do find it limiting. It's NOT that I feel "owed," but Disney gave something and then they took it away--limiting my experience. I have been going since 1976. I remember standing in long line after long line. Not enjoyable. Back then, there was only MK. It took us 3 days to do everything because of those lines. Other days, we were at Cypress Gardens, Busch gardens, Sea World, orange picking, and various other things that rotated year to year. One year we watched the space shuttle launch. Those other days were very exciting for us--less lines. And guess what? Less crowds than now too. Yes, I feel limited.

Well said.

 

[Planogirl]

Thanks Angel Ariel!

That is happening unbelievably fast.

Wow, freakin brilliant. Never saw that coming. Wow. Brilliant.

In one fell swoop, Disney has taken away the fast pass perk for 'everybody' and tiered it, so it is a perk for the onsite guest. And has done it in such a way that the general off site guest does not even really realize it yet. (because the off site guest will always be getting the 'leftovers', and the onsite guest will be getting better offerings, if they choose to play)

It also forces the off site guest to use the new system, if they want ANY fp at all. Its All stick in training the off site mice! No incentive for pre purchasing the ticket needed! OMG, this is truly a bold move.

Its like watching the most brilliant game of chess, bean counters vs the world.

I ended up redoing our schedule because of the AK change and we spent the day at AK the day before they took the legacy machines away. I wanted just one more trip without having to deal with this pre-planning nonsense.

 

[patty57]

That's a disappointing report. I chalked up our disappointing PM EMH to the fact that the park closed at 11, so EMH only went through 1 AM. If it doesn't empty out by 2:45, there really isn't much hope.

Maybe it's because EMH is now 2 instead of 3 hours?

I definitely think that the decrease to two hours makes a difference. We would often not notice a huge decrease (close to walk-on to pretty much anything) until the third hour of evening EMH.

 

[dayvewc]

I do stay onsite but someone who stays offsite used to be able to ride rides over and over vis FP- without EMH. And I love the suggestion to just go to EMH, ummm offsiters can not do this....Limiting for them.



I think I read that you traveled solo, correct? If not I apologize, but you as a solo traveler being able to change a FP+ is quite different than a family of 4 trying to make that work, and for us it did not.

Why is ok for others to give their anedotal evidence that they could change their FP+s on the fly but you are discounting that my family could not

IMHO, I think you are confusing anecdotal contrary evidence for discounting. Just because you couldn't make changes does not mean that no one is able to make changes. In exactly the same way, just because the other person could make changes does not mean that you will be able to also. No one is being discounted, just a recognition that what happens to one is not indicative of what will happen for most.

 

[disneyerin]

Definitely limiting to me. We used to go to Disney relaxed (other than getting up early which we want to do on vacation anyway). We were able to choose which rides we wanted to do based on what we felt like. We could get fp's as we needed them and there were no long lines for attractions like SE, POTC, etc. (off season). I went in October and was limited by choices made long ago and longer lines for little attractions I could usually count on riding quickly. How is that not limiting? If the final product is something like this one, we will never feel as "free" at Disney as we used to. How is being unable to ride a lot of rides not limiting?

Ok......I'm beginning to get it.... What everyone is saying makes sense. It literally IS limiting if going on rides is where people find the magic at WDW, especially when you consider the amount we all pay to be able to ride them! I forget what it means to be a parent of a small child who's whole experience of WDW IS the rides and meet and greets!

I'm just an 'ole veteran park lover who now is totally content with just walking in the parks, soaking in the Disney energy and atmosphere, and sitting on a bench with my coffee marveling at the beauty that is Disney. If I can get in 2 favorite rides and a fun meal per park in the process, I'm in heaven.

But that's not what Disney promotes/promises. That's not what millions of people are paying for when they come to WDW.

So for folks like me, we can find magic in other places. But that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well.

 

[baileybrad]

I do find it limiting. It's NOT that I feel "owed," but Disney gave something and then they took it away--limiting my experience. I have been going since 1976. I remember standing in long line after long line. Not enjoyable. Back then, there was only MK. It took us 3 days to do everything because of those lines. Other days, we were at Cypress Gardens, Busch gardens, Sea World, orange picking, and various other things that rotated year to year. One year we watched the space shuttle launch. Those other days were very exciting for us--less lines. And guess what? Less crowds than now too. Yes, I feel limited.

I will be standing in longer lines because we never got in a line more than 20 minutes, although there is not enough money to pay me to go at Christmas, New Years, Fourth of July or Easter. We do, however go spring break or Thanksgiving. Limited.

I will need to choose between attractions such as TSMM or RNRC. Or I need to choose between TT or Soarin. Limited.

I now can only get FP in one park. Limited.

I now can only get 3 per day. While we were not 12 per day people, while we never raced around the parks collecting FP, we did often use 5-7 FP per day. Which meant each person could get on *their* favorite once (bigger family). Limited.

I am now not allowed to repeat a FP ride. Meaning if we wanted to go back for a second time through the day, we can't without a long line. Or, if one kid got brave and tried something new and loved it, came off and told another chicken kid it isn't bad, try it, we logistically can't. Limited.

Because I have to choose 60 days out, and my changes are limited to what is available, and I'm having issues moving things around for our January slow season (the rides I want at the times I want), I don't have much faith of "on the fly" changes. Limited.

Because we alternate onsite with offsite trips and offsite, at this time (and I truly see this as a 90% likely not to change feature), can only choose day of. As above, not much faith I could grab TSMM same day. Limited. FYI, we were never rope drop people and always got a FP for TSMM.

I now feel like will have to wake up early for rope drop to come close to our current touring style. Meaning, I will now have cranky kids because they aren't well rested. Our days will probably end sooner, so no night time parade, F!, fireworks, etc. Limited.

And guess what? Each year I pay more. And more. And more. Do you remember prices for both hotel and tickets just 10 years ago? When an AP broke even at day 8, at that much lower cost? When a room at the Poly then wasn't much more than a room at a value resort now?

Nope. I am not required to go to Disney. I have almost every year of my life since 1976, sometimes multiple times a year. Our trips since the 90s have been 10 days long each, on average. A couple shorter, a few longer. I get less and less for more and more money. The value has been limited. Or lessened. Or both. I vote for both. I'm locked into this January trip and have been since last May with it being prepaid and non-refundable. I currently have a ressie for thanksgiving 2014 that I'm considering (a) keeping as is, (b) canceling out right, or (c) adjusting to 4 onsite days (3 nights) and moving offsite to do other central Florida activities.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

We, too, feel your pain. Your points about the cost of all things Disney really resonate with us. We are frequent guests, going back to the mid-eighties as adults and both of us as kids with our parents prior to that.

The big thing that is going around is the move to a different FP allocation system. That new system will impact our future (of which we now have none scheduled, a first for us in a really long time) visits based on how our 12/20-12/24 trip was executed. We were able to pull FP- and as a result see what was gained with FP+ and lost with FP- going away.

The FP change is minor to us in the overall scheme of things. We see the crazy increases in cost at Disney to be quite disturbing. We used to enjoy sitdown lunches in many Disney restaurants. Now we find ourselves priced out of the market. Could we afford the meals on a regular basis, sure, but the value received is nuts to us.

Our future trips will include fewer days in the parks. This trip we did not even visit AK. There is no value for us to spend time standing in a standby line. Burning a day in a park to stand in lines is a waste of money to us. Maybe the FP system will allow more flexibility in the future -- multiple parks on the same day, no tiering, choosing the same attraction multiple times, etc. Only time will tell.

Touring Disney has to be somewhat planned for our family, not meaning to disparage the original poster. Paying for 5 folks to visit a park is way too expensive to leave it to going with the flow.

 

[johde]

At this point, I'm cautiously optimistic about FP+. The way I see it, both systems are "limiting". They just limit you in different ways.

The limits of FP+ as currently implemented have been repeated multiple times in various threads.
1) 3 a day no more no less
2) 1 park only
3) Tiering at EPCOT and DHS
4) Offsite same day only (AK only)

FP- can be just as limiting but in different ways.
1) return time is assigned
FP return time can be several hours in the future,
2) return time can't be changed
If the current return time is on top of a ADR you're out of luck
3) requires going to the attraction twice (once to pickup FP and once to ride)
You need to try and plan your day on the fly around being back at an attraction at a given time. You were planning on being in WS in the evening but your Soarin' return time is 7:30-8:30pm. Leading to extra crisscrossing around the park to get and turn in FP's
4) If you arrive later in the day you could get no FP for headliners.
This week is an extreme example, but at 1:30 on Dec. 30th FP's are gone for MS,TT,Soarin, RR, and TSMM. At Epcot your FP choices are Living with the land, (2:05-3:05 return time) and Maelstrom (2:50 - 3:50 return time) and at DHS, you have ST (5:35-6:35 return time), and TofT (10:40-11:30 return). MK still has several attractions with FP's available but for most of the "big headliners" the return time is after 9:00pm and PP and SM are past midnight.

I will agree with most everyone that the roll out of the system has been problematic. My next planned vacation is a little over a year away, I had to cancel my trip this December, and I would be willing to bet the system will have changed significantly between now and them. I would also bet some of the changes I'll like and some I won't.

 

[patty57]

Ok......I'm beginning to get it.... What everyone is saying makes sense. It literally IS limiting if going on rides is where people find the magic at WDW, especially when you consider the amount we all pay to be able to ride them! I forget what it means to be a parent of a small child who's whole experience of WDW IS the rides and meet and greets!

I'm just an 'ole veteran park lover who now is totally content with just walking in the parks, soaking in the Disney energy and atmosphere, and sitting on a bench with my coffee marveling at the beauty that is Disney. If I can get in 2 favorite rides and a fun meal per park in the process, I'm in heaven.

But that's not what Disney promotes/promises. That's not what millions of people are paying for when they come to WDW.

So for folks like me, we can find magic in other places. But that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well.

This is going to sound snarky, and I apologize, but I have zero interest in paying hundreds of dollars for park tickets, thousands for resorts, and who knows what in airfare to just sit on a bench, drink coffee and soak in anything. I can do that anywhere.

 

[skater]

Ok......I'm beginning to get it.... What everyone is saying makes sense. It literally IS limiting if going on rides is where people find the magic at WDW, especially when you consider the amount we all pay to be able to ride them! I forget what it means to be a parent of a small child who's whole experience of WDW IS the rides and meet and greets!

I'm just an 'ole veteran park lover who now is totally content with just walking in the parks, soaking in the Disney energy and atmosphere, and sitting on a bench with my coffee marveling at the beauty that is Disney. If I can get in 2 favorite rides and a fun meal per park in the process, I'm in heaven.

But that's not what Disney promotes/promises. That's not what millions of people are paying for when they come to WDW.

So for folks like me, we can find magic in other places. But that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well.

I like all that stuff too - especially when I go without the kids (so, I totally get why you would enjoy that). With the old system, I was able to do all that plus my favorite headliners. But who knows? In a couple years, I might not care about all that other stuff either .

 

[Angel Ariel]

Ok......I'm beginning to get it.... What everyone is saying makes sense. It literally IS limiting if going on rides is where people find the magic at WDW, especially when you consider the amount we all pay to be able to ride them! I forget what it means to be a parent of a small child who's whole experience of WDW IS the rides and meet and greets!

I'm just an 'ole veteran park lover who now is totally content with just walking in the parks, soaking in the Disney energy and atmosphere, and sitting on a bench with my coffee marveling at the beauty that is Disney. If I can get in 2 favorite rides and a fun meal per park in the process, I'm in heaven.

But that's not what Disney promotes/promises. That's not what millions of people are paying for when they come to WDW.

So for folks like me, we can find magic in other places. But that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well.

I can find the magic in places other than the rides at WDW too. My favorite thing has always been being in MK for late EMH as late as possible (even after EMH ends) and just hanging out in the HUB enjoying the castle/taking pictures/etc.

That said... WDW trips are expensive. We were *very* lucky to be able to take 2 trips this past year, and I don't anticipate that happening ever again. I'm not spending a boatload of money to sit are go sit on a bench on main street all day and not riding anything. If all I wanted was Disney atmosphere, I could spend the day at the monorail resorts, go back to my offsite hotel at night and spend a heck of a lot less.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

We go for The Everything...including the rides. If you take away one of the pieces (the rides) then it just doesn't feel like Disney anymore.

This is how we used legacy FP: we'd get to a ride, see what the standby time was, and if it was more than 20 minutes (generally), we'd grab a FP and go do something else in the general vicinity of a ride. Occasionally, a runner would be sent for a headliner with FP return times that were further out. But we felt like the legacy system was a great system for people with young kids...because you weren't waiting in line (and I don't care how interactive they make the queues...a line is still a line and kids still get bored) and you had time to do all the other stuff there is to do in the parks. It really was multi-tasking at it's finest! We would also pull multiple FPs for a single ride, especially if the kids really, really loved it and wanted to go again. We used FP+ on our last trip in October, and had used legacy FPs on 3 prior trips. I felt that legacy FP was much, much more flexible and much, much more friendly for people with young children. I didn't have to try to predict 2 months in advance what rides would be sufficiently busy enough to justify a FP. If I wanted 5 FPs for Peter Pan and none for anything else, I could do that. I wasn't playing with my phone, trying to get the @%&* MDE app to work when our schedule changed so that we didn't lose one of our three precious FP+ slots. Previously, if we were holding a FP for a ride that we didn't end up using for one reason or another, we'd give them away to someone else. Now, with only 3 to use, if a time isn't going to work for you, then you have to change it or you lose it for the day. And all of our in-park break times were centered around whereever we could find a charging place for our phones, which also felt limiting. So, for who we are (4 guests, two of whom are young children) and for the way we tour, the new system definitely is limiting.

 

[crostorfer]

Ok......I'm beginning to get it.... What everyone is saying makes sense. It literally IS limiting if going on rides is where people find the magic at WDW, especially when you consider the amount we all pay to be able to ride them! I forget what it means to be a parent of a small child who's whole experience of WDW IS the rides and meet and greets!

I'm just an 'ole veteran park lover who now is totally content with just walking in the parks, soaking in the Disney energy and atmosphere, and sitting on a bench with my coffee marveling at the beauty that is Disney. If I can get in 2 favorite rides and a fun meal per park in the process, I'm in heaven.

But that's not what Disney promotes/promises. That's not what millions of people are paying for when they come to WDW.

So for folks like me, we can find magic in other places. But that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well.

And that is fabulous, for people like my 105 year old Great Grandmother, who would love to do nothing more than sit in the sun all day with a cold drink and soak in the sun and culture.

My 10 year old, however, doesn't give a rat's patootie about ambiance and atmosphere. And telling my husband with a serious case of ADD, that we're spending $5000 to go on a Disney vacation where essentially all we can accomplish is sitting and watching parents puke after their children spin them too fast on the teacups, isn't going to go over well.

 

[twopeasonepod]

To me the removal of FP- is like the lameness that ensued with the United/Continental merger. We used to be able to book Economy Plus automatically -- now we have to wait until check in and see if it's available. Total rip off.

I get that things change and that we have to be flexible with what comes, but I think the argument many have is that they are taking away something that they once offered and for the price, why the removal?

We just left AKV after 10 days and had a great time, despite the crowds and not having FP- at AK. We totally double dipped, but I gotta tell ya, even though the boys are only seven, they have really outgrown Disney rides. Our family loves coasters, and because they are so giant, they can go on the headliners at places like Cedar Point and Kings Island. The rides at Disney are just too "babyish" (their words, not mine), with the exception of RnR and ToT, which they love. I am getting to the point where the shows are more interesting than the rides, because the boys are bored and I love giant coasters, too.

I wonder if they will iron everything out and get rid of the tiers (I know they won't, but I can still wish!) before we return in Sept. I wish we had considered the boys' love for thrills before we bought DVC. Oops.