Noise Reduction

[DVCRon]

Nice work! I've seen comparisons of the 3 most popular NR reduction programs, Noise Ninja, Noiseware and Neat Image and they all come very close to each other in the final results. A nice feature in Noise Ninja is the ability to selectively add back some noise (noise brush) to select areas of the photo. I think Noiseware has that feauture too.

The best part of NR software is the more you use it the better you get with it.

 

[ALittleDisneyFan]

I am not sure if you can tell in this size of the picture... but, why so much noise? I've just recently started working in manual again... and feeling a tad frustrated to see the noise.

This one was taken a little later, and seems much better to me.

 

[seashoreCM]

The higher the ISO, the more grainy (noisy) the picture will be.

Small point and shoots tend to give noisier pictures, all other conditions being equal. In general, the denser the pixels upon the sensor (smaller sensor with the same megapixels or the same size sensor with more megapixels) the noiser the picture will be. Now, camera manufactures are gradually improving on this.

Digital camera hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/digicam.htm

 

[Nikel]

What were your ISO settings on the images? And have these been edited at all?

 

[extreme8]

The first was shot at 1/1000 @ f5.6, and the second was 1/60 @f22, so looking at the lighting conditions I'm going to assume you really had the iso cranked up.
As was already mentioned, higher iso = more noise. Using a DSLR (as you are) is better than using a P&S in this regard.

Noise is typically more noticeable in the shadow areas, so shots like these appear to be noisier than one with a well lit subject.

I don't know how much processing you did in Elements, but that can contribute as well.

 

[ALittleDisneyFan]

I slightly adjusted the levels in Elements. But the noise was there pre-edit.

 

[Nikel]

Then it's probably the ISO being high, and the levels adjustment just added to it.

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

I noticed in this picture that it appeared grainy, I checked the exif ??? thing on it, but did not see anything about noise. But was playing with the camera and found a noise reduction setting and it was set to off, after this picture I turned it to on.

this is one taken I believe after I turned it to on

 

[handicap18]

You wont find anything about noise in the EXIF data. Noise is something you see, its not measured or anything like that. Looking at your first pic it does look like there is some noise in the dark green door and around it.

You'll find noise a lot more in higher ISO's, especially with PnS camera's. Noise reduction features on camera's can be good, but they can also be a pain. Its especially a pain at night. If you take long exposures, the noise reduction will just about double the time it takes to take 1 image. That happened to me a few years back when I was taking fireworks shots. There was what seemed an awfully long pause after the shutter closed. I would take a 5 second shot, then when it was done I had to wait another 5 seconds before I was able to take another shot. Turns out I had the Noise reduction feature turned on. I shut it off after that and haven't turned it back on since.

You might be better off with a noise reduction software program like Noise Ninja.

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

Actually I think you've got a *much* bigger problem than noise with that camera!

Sorry ... I guess you're just trying to protect the identity of the kid(s) ... but it still struck me funny....

 

[handicap18]

What is the ISO on these? I don't notice much noise. I do see a dark cushion'd seat (actually its light grey) that looks like what noise might look like. The 2nd pic looks pretty sharp. I'd have to see a much bigger image to see noise.

 

[ALittleDisneyFan]

The ISO was either 800 or 1600 (?)
I appreciate the feedback, because I once upon a time, knew this.
How can I get rid of gray areas?

 

[mabas9395]

Actually I think you've got a *much* bigger problem than noise with that camera!

I don't think so. Look how well the red-eye reduction feature worked on that first shot.

 

[TinksDH]

I have a D50 as well. The noise is pretty controllable at ISO800. It gets kinda bad at ISO1600 and you have to really pay attention and "expose to the right" to minimize it.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

The higher the ISO, the more noise you get. You want to try to shoot at ISO 100 or 200 whenever possible. Go higher only when you need to.

Looking at the EXIF for the pictures, the first was taken at 1/1000s, f/5.6, and 50mm. You could easily have shot the same shot at 1/125s, and adjusted your ISO down three stops (from 800 to 100 or 1,000 to 200). Your aperture would remain unchanged and your shutter speed would still be plenty fast for that focal length.

The second shot was taken at 1/60s, f/22, and 60mm. Here, you could have adjusted the aperture up three stops to f/8. DOF would still have been adequate and you could have lowered your ISO substantially.

Why are you working manual? I recommend that you start with Program mode and let the camera pick the appropriate shutter speed and aperture. Set your ISO to the lowest you can while still getting reasonable shutter speeds. Once you get comfortable with that, move on to Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority. Once you get comfortable with that, then try some Manual exposure modes. Once you get comfortable with that, use the mode most appropriate for what you are doing. Even for most pros, that is rarely manual mode.

 

[Groucho]

You may also want to use Auto ISO more, along with shooting in Program mode. On my K100D (which has the same sensor as the D50), I had Auto ISO set to 200-800 ISO. This let it pick an ISO that was generally going to be pretty good for most conditions. In low-light areas, I'd manually set it to 1600, or 3200 if it was really dark (like on Haunted Mansion, etc).

Those photos shot in Program mode would probably have been improved on a technical level. F22 is really more than you want to use (the lens is not working optimally at such a small aperture) and 1/1000 is overkill if the ISO is set high.

If you do want to use Manual, your camera probably has a button that will automatically set the shutter speed and aperture to a recommended setting, which you can then modify as desired. In the Pentax world, it's an AE/L button, I'm not sure what the terminology is in the Nikon world. But you may want to try that.

On the other hand, it does look like you were getting good exposure in Manual mode all by yourself.

 

[cjstarr]

I have a Sony A100 with a DT 18-70 F3.5-5.6 Lens (came with the camera) and a SLA75300 75-300mm F4.5-5.6 Lens.
I’m having a problem setting the ISO higher then 800 without getting noise in my night shots. Is there a lens that will help with the noise in the night shots an allow me to use the higher ISO settings.

Thanks

Charles

 

[MarkBarbieri]

No lens will help with the noise at any given ISO level. However, lenses with wide apertures (low f-stop numbers) let in more light, so they let you take pictures at lower ISO levels.

Let's say that you are taking a picture with a lens that has a minimum aperture of f/5.6 and the ISO is set to 1600. You can get the same picture with the same shutter speed using an f/4 lens with the ISO at 800. With an f/2.8 lens, you can use ISO 400. With an f/2 lens, you can use ISO 200. With an f/1.4 lens, that drops down to ISO 100.

The one limitation to this approach (other than the cost and size of lenses with wide apertures) is that the lower f-stop number will also result in shallower depth-of-field. That means that stuff that isn't exactly the same distance as what you focused on will look blurrier the lower you adjust the f-stop. For some pictures, that makes them look better. For others, it's a problem.

One piece of advice that I also hear about noise at high ISO levels is to "expose to the right." That means to purposely exposure your picture as bright as possible without overexposing it and then adjust the exposure back down on your computer. That works in that there is less noise for things that are almost (but not quite) overexposed. The problem is that it requires either a wider aperture or a slower shutter speed. If you can use a wider aperture or a slower shutter speed, do that instead of increasing your ISO.

 

[cjstarr]

No lens will help with the noise at any given ISO level. However, lenses with wide apertures (low f-stop numbers) let in more light, so they let you take pictures at lower ISO levels.

Let's say that you are taking a picture with a lens that has a minimum aperture of f/5.6 and the ISO is set to 1600. You can get the same picture with the same shutter speed using an f/4 lens with the ISO at 800. With an f/2.8 lens, you can use ISO 400. With an f/2 lens, you can use ISO 200. With an f/1.4 lens, that drops down to ISO 100.

The one limitation to this approach (other than the cost and size of lenses with wide apertures) is that the lower f-stop number will also result in shallower depth-of-field. That means that stuff that isn't exactly the same distance as what you focused on will look blurrier the lower you adjust the f-stop. For some pictures, that makes them look better. For others, it's a problem.

One piece of advice that I also hear about noise at high ISO levels is to "expose to the right." That means to purposely exposure your picture as bright as possible without overexposing it and then adjust the exposure back down on your computer. That works in that there is less noise for things that are almost (but not quite) overexposed. The problem is that it requires either a wider aperture or a slower shutter speed. If you can use a wider aperture or a slower shutter speed, do that instead of increasing your ISO.

What lens would you suggest to use in order to get the picture without having to use a tripod? I find that I can not hold it still if I slow down the shutter speed. I would like to find balance with a lens between having enought light without slowing down the shutter so I can still hold the camera without it getting blured.
(Of course I may not be asking this question right either)
Thanks Mark

 

[MarkBarbieri]

What lens would you suggest to use in order to get the picture without having to use a tripod? I find that I can not hold it still if I slow down the shutter speed. I would like to find balance with a lens between having enought light without slowing down the shutter so I can still hold the camera without it getting blured.
(Of course I may not be asking this question right either)
Thanks Mark

That's a tough question. Look at lenses with wider apertures (lower f-stop numbers) and find one that meets your needs. Just be aware that wider aperture prime (non-zoom) lenses can be very expensive. Wide aperture zooms can be very, very, very expensive.

Personally, I love to shot with a 70-200 f/2.8 lens. I find that it's fast enough for my needs and I like having a zoom. I know others that swear by the 135mm f/2 lens. It gives you twice as fast of a shutter speed, but it doesn't have the zoom range that the 70-200 does.