News Story - CNN.com - Woman dies a day afer riding Mission Space

[PaulaSB12]

Call me picky , but isn't 4 a little young for Mission Space? If we shut down everything that someone has died after riding then nothing would be allowed. I am sorry that both these people died, but that is no reason to shut down the ride.

Ok I got the name wrong.

 

[k5thbeatle]

I got ill after Stitches Great Escape, I wish they'd close that down!

 

[zuzu310]

I think Mission Space is rather tame and a little boring but that could be because I am from Ohio and have pulled a few G's on the coasters at Cedar Point. However, I can see the motion sickness issue because of how the ride works. I think it just depends on what is right for each individual. For instance, I love roller coasters and will go on any but I am not always such a fan of rides like MaxAir that atatch you to the end of a long arm and spin you around and upside down. Also, I think people knowlingly go on a ride thinking that the warning about high blood pressure, heart condition etc. doesn't apply to them. I think more than likely they will find that it was a pre-existing condition that caused it.

 

[Pats Dragon]

I know I am in the minority but "the thing speaks for itself." If a lot of people get extremely sick and a very small number die is a ride worth it? Would you really risk your kids lives since some people don't know if they have certain health problems until something happens. Also, the pirates has warnings on the ride and it is easy to ignore them. I say bring back motion. I loved that ride.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

if all of this blind hysteria keeps up, MS isn't going to need FP machines in the near future. that's a bonus for my family.

 

[redbirdgrad]

I think that people don't give credence to the warning because they can't "see" the ride - it's indoor, unlike a looping roller coaster or such. Thus they think "Oh, it can't be that bad - it's indoor" - I've seen people come out of space mountain all worked up because they didn't think it would be like that. If you have a condition - don't do the rides with warnings.

Last time we were there, I was the only one in my family that did Mission Space - and after I did I knew my wife and kids wouldn't have liked the ride. I told my Dad, a heart patient, he would love it but couldn't do it because of his condition.

 

[Stitch65]

Call me picky , but isn't 4 a little young for Space Mountain? If we shut down everything that someone has died after riding then nothing would be allowed. I am sorry that both these people died, but that is no reason to shut down the ride.

Don't you mean Mission Space?

 

[civileng68]

I feel sorry, SO SORRY for the family of the person who died.

However,

I think too many people, are inresponsible and refuse to read notices.

Please dont flame me if you let your very young child ride thrill rides, even if they want to, but, no four year old should be on a ride like that. Again this is my personal opinion so please be aware of that when responding. I just always think of the "what if's" and think as a parent you have to think like that.

The ride IS intense and the G's are the same if not LESS in some cases than that of a rollercoaster. The difference however is that the G's on MS are sustained G's. They dont last for a split second like on a coaster. They last a good portion of the ride.

I agree it's much like the "Gravitron" ride at a fair, but the difference is, for some reason, many of the same people who wont ride the Gravitron will ride MS. I think most think that just because it's at Disney they can handle it.

Some of it also comes from boards like these with people saying "It's nothing!". I think WE ALL have a responsibility to report this stuff outside of our own personal opinions. We have to think of others. I love the ride and it doesnt bother me at all but when I review it I'll tell you that it IS intense.

I found it odd how CNN did not report her age.

I also think it's fine for the media to report as long as they are responsible enough to follow it with the reason for the death (when discovered).

I doubt CNN is attacking Disney (as a person early on said) since it's a very left-wing media source and Disney's CEO is a very left-wing CEO. I think CNN has a responsibility to report things like this.........but I just found it odd not to report the age and am fine as long as they come back to the story to report the cause of death.

 

[Stitch65]

Here's my 2 cents. I'm sure to get flamed, but here goes...

First off, let me say I feel for the families of the woman and the little boy who died. They are in my thoughts and prayers.

Second: People are injured at theme parks around the world. Not just Disney. Like I've said in a previous thread, I live near the Mall of America and there have been at least 3 deaths there. One teenager fell off an escalator, a 7-yr old boy jumped off the flume ride, a 8 yr-old girl died on the "screamin' eagle". Now, Mall of America is an extremely watered down theme park ride-wise. The worst ride there is called the "Axe" and there is no way I'd go on it. I remeber once that thing got stuck upside down for over an hour. Those people were slightly ill after getting down!

But I digress... My point is tragedy happens everywhere. People die every day. Now before you start chucking tomatoes at me, you know this is true. I lost my mom to cancer so don't start calling me insensitive. We all have to deal with death at some point. Now that being said, I agree that death and disney just don't connect in my brain. Disney is such a happy, magical place. But it's still a place that people congregate and eat, have fun, cry, sleep, and yes some do die. That's part of the human condition.

Now that I have that off my chest, here's my 2 cents about Mission Space. I rode it once. I am free of serious medical conditions. It was an interesting ride and I was sick for the rest of the day. Was this MS fault? Maybe, but I doubt it. I'm fully aware that I get motion sickness easily and I should have known better with the warnings posted. Now I'm not saying that this little boy or the woman knew about any existing conditions (and we're not sure the woman had one, but I'm guessing she did), but the warnings are there. Why do I say this so blatantly? If your not willing to risk it, why ride it? Just because it's there doesn't mean Disney is making you ride it. It's like the whole "would you jump off a bridge if all your friends did?" spiel. Some people really enjoy this ride. And that's OK. Some people really enjoy sky-diving, too.

Here's the point I'm trying to make: You don't have to ride it. And if ridership goes down, disney will probably start rethinking the ride. Again just my two cents, and here come the tomatoes!

BTW, if your up for a little light reading, here are accidents that happened at the other parks:

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/reviews/walt_disney_world's_magic_kingdom/accidents/

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/reviews/epcot/accidents/

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/reviews/disney-mgm_studios/accidents/

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/reviews/disney's_animal_kingdom/accidents/

 

[MyGoofy26]

When I did my college program at WDW a few years ago, one of my coworkers and I started talking about people dying in theme parks (after an announcement came through the park looking for a family) Her hubby worked at Universal. . . some sort of manager in one of the areas, he did engineering type stuff. . . can't remember his exact job title now. Anyway, point being he had access to all sorts of logs and information that the general public doesn't see and he said that at least one person dies in an Orlando theme park every day. EVERY DAY. Some from accidents, some from natural causes . . . but every day someone dies. So really, this woman's story, while unfortunate, isn't exactly a rare circumstance. It's just big news because she happened to go on Mission: SPACE and the news outlets can sell the story about someone dying on one of Disney's most intense rides.

 

[micknpluto]

When I did my college program at WDW a few years ago, one of my coworkers and I started talking about people dying in theme parks (after an announcement came through the park looking for a family) Her hubby worked at Universal. . . some sort of manager in one of the areas, he did engineering type stuff. . . can't remember his exact job title now. Anyway, point being he had access to all sorts of logs and information that the general public doesn't see and he said that at least one person dies in an Orlando theme park every day. EVERY DAY. Some from accidents, some from natural causes . . . but every day someone dies. So really, this woman's story, while unfortunate, isn't exactly a rare circumstance. It's just big news because she happened to go on Mission: SPACE and the news outlets can sell the story about someone dying on one of Disney's most intense rides.

INTERESTING

 

[lark]

Here's the point I'm trying to make: You don't have to ride it. And if ridership goes down, disney will probably start rethinking the ride. Again just my two cents, and here come the tomatoes!

Yes, that's a good point. No tomoatoes. I understand the "personal responsibility" point.

But I also think that no matter how many warnings get posted, at some point there are things that you don't expect at a theme park and some things you do. You expect that imagineers, doctors, and pysicists have taken the steps they need to to preserve the safety of the ride as best they can. There is a level of trust. I'm not saying they have not at disney. I have never said that, by the way. What I'm saying is that after two deaths, it's time to make sure and rethink. Everyone seems quick to want to say that these two were unrelated and had their own causes. But we really don't, and can't know that. Do we know for sure that others haven't come close to tragedy on that ride, but just don't know it? Probably not. I won't ride it, though.

To take an outrageous example to make my point, if disney introduced a new russian roulette atraction and posted a warning that said, "one out of every six times you will die," I don't think at that point it would just be about personal responsibility or whether the warning was enough to make certain that everyone has assumed the risk.

But your points are well made, as are I think 95 percent of the posts in this thread even among those of us that have a serious disagreement. What gets me is the blind defense of anything disney to the point where people appear to be saying, about a 4 year old boy, basically, "ehhh, he would have died eventually anyway" in their zeal to avoid any implication that not all is perfect at disney all the time (after posting about how their heart goes out to the families). That's what pushes my buttons on this thread. I'm sure everyone has their own buttons on the issue, which is why the thread gets a little heated at times.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't know. As I said, I've yet to ride M:S. I didn't find the Gravitron intense at all. I always found it rather boring.

Well, sure it's boring. You just go around in circles. But the Gravitron does use centrifugal force to keep you from falling to the floor.

and just want to say to the world of Dis...if in Nov. you hear about a 53 yr old crazy woman croaking on MS, RNR, TOT or any other rides i might ride and probably shouldn't, i take personal responsibility for it...

I've already notified a number of people in writing (e-mail's' the same thing, right?) that if anything happens to me at Disney, Universal or SeaWorld, it was MY fault/responsibility and the theme park is NOT to be blamed - or worse, sued.

Bottom line is I'm reading all these posts where people say riders should have "read the warnings". I'm sure there are those who don't and do read the warnings, but the bottom line is how many times is someone going to die on this ride and it's going to be blamed on the rider "didn't read the warning"?????

Bottom line is = how many people do or don't read the warnings and DON'T die, or suffer long-lasting ill effects, or experience ONLY fun?

The bottom line is that you haven't read the thread, or the news articles. No one has died on the ride. And that kind of misdirected, knee-jerk reaction is what a lot of people are objecting to.

So let me see. Two people die and it's a knee jerk reaction?

At least 8,599,998 people have ridden Mission: Space and NOT died.

THe thing is we try to control, what we can control in life. A ride shutting down in Disney will not affect a nations economy.THAT is in the companies control and is not a need of life. A car is a necessity.

No, a car is NOT a necessity. There are alternatives - living/working in proximity to one's residence; residing in a small town or reasonably-sized city where most everything is accessible by foot; public transportation; bicycle; walking.

I'm personally not seeing the logic in remarks about closing down Boston or removing cars from the road, but again that may be me <snip> It is only reasonable to expect that the guests in line for MS know next to nothing.

Cars (well, okay, drivers - should we ban driving?) cause more deaths in a day than have occurred in relation to Mission: Space since it opened. And it is reasonable to expect that the Guests in line for M: S know they're ultimately responsible for choosing to go on this or any other ride, and for allowing their children on as well.

By the way, one of those links that Stitch65 posted is about Epcot incidents. One person posted there that Mission: Space provides a verbal warning SEVEN times.

 

[bicker]

But we really don't, and can't know that.

Precisely. That's why it is essential that we rely on the safety experts, and that the safety experts base their determination of a ride's safety based on what they do know: real facts and evidence.

I feel that it is actually time to "make sure and rethink" every time there is any significant incident on an attraction (not just fatalities), and Disney has a comprehensive safety program to ensure that happens.

At least in the case of the young boy we know that that fatality didn't indicate a lack of safety of the attraction itself, and now it appears that an initial review of the circumstances of this woman's fatality also have been determined, by the experts, based on the facts, that there is no reason to question the safety of the attraction itself.

 

[k5thbeatle]

Precisely. That's why it is essential that we rely on the safety experts, and that the safety experts base their determination of a ride's safety based on what they do know: real facts and evidence.

I feel that it is actually time to "make sure and rethink" every time there is any significant incident on an attraction (not just fatalities), and Disney has a comprehensive safety program to ensure that happens.

At least in the case of the young boy we know that that fatality didn't indicate a lack of safety of the attraction itself, and now it appears that an initial review of the circumstances of this woman's fatality also have been determined, by the experts, based on the facts, that there is no reason to question the safety of the attraction itself.

Again, it comes down to an erroneous cause and effect relationship in an attempt to find blame. He/she went on this ride...died shortly thereafter...therefore the ride was the cause of death.

 

[bicker]

Erroneous cause-and-effect relationship indeed. That's really the type of spurious leap that needs to be avoided.

 

[druiser]

OK, here's my 2 cents as well. (ok, more like $2)

I totally agree with the posters who have said that MS is not THAT BAD. It is a spinning ride that does pack in a few sustained G's that some may find intense. Personally, I think it is nothing compared to many "extreme" roller coasters out there, and frankly I think that you get thrown around more on RNR, and that the backwards stretch of EE is just as disorienting as MS.

I do believe that people who probably should not ride it try to do so anyway, either out of curiosity, or just foolishness, by ignoring the REPEATED warnings about the intensity. I don't think it's anything that MOST folks couldn't handle - maybe with a little Dramamine first (speaking of which, why would anyone who thinks of themself as prone to motion sickness even consider the ride, unless on some kind of relief meds?). Folks who "panic" and close their eyes, or try lean forward, or try to look side to side probably bring many of their symptoms on themselves.

My wife is prone to motion sickness, and is convinced she's hurl, so she won't ride it. I, on the other hand, love it, and will ride it again. DS5 also loves it, and proudly wears the shirt he got in the gift shop just outside. Granted, I took precautions, and talked him through the entire ride, both times he's ridden it, but do I consider myself a bad parent for letting him ride it? Absolutely not, and it's classless and probably hypocritical for anyone else to suggest such a thing. Do you know how many kids aged 4, 5, 6 have ridden that thing? More than once? Asked to go again? More than we could count, I'd wager.

There is nothing any of us can do about peoples' pre-existing health conditions, and no way we can know about them, but to claim that this one ride should be shut down because "it's a killer" is naive, IMO. The same condition that made the 4yo child susceptible to the forces on this ride, might also have claimed him on any number of other rides at WDW, or even Universal, 6 flags, Paramount's parks, etc. There is no way we can do anything about it, short of closing all thrill rides. We have no definitive idea if MS played a significant role in the latest death, either, and we should not even try to link the 2 until we do - or at least until we get more info on the health of the woman. Anything short of that is irresponsible .... much like critiquing parenting skills without knowing a fraction of the people you're speaking about. Sorry to vent on that one twice - it got a rise out of me.

 

[raidermatt]

Safety experts are subject to errors in judgement. When incidents occur that were not expected, its at least time to re-evaluate, and we cannot always assume that those same experts who initially blessed something will subsequently get it right.

True, there is no definitive cause-effect relationship in either of these deaths. However, with the condition the boy had, stress is a contributing factor. Further, its estimated that as many as .2% of the population may have this condition. While its possible he could have died at any time, its also possible that the unique stresses the ride placed on him (through both the physical motion and visual stimuli) triggered his accident when other stressful situations did not.

True, there is no definitive conclusion to be drawn. Only questions.

With the current incident, we have indications that she had some pre-existing health issues, but nothing definitive there yet either. We'll have to wait and see.

But regardless, we have to assume that 2 deaths at this point in M:S's lifecycle are not what Disney expected. Three possibilities:

1- Purely coincidental
2- For some reason, people Disney did not expect to ride this ride are riding it.
3- The ride is having unexpected impacts on certain individuals.

I'm not ready to draw any definitive conclusions in any direction. And while I greatly appreciate the work of safety experts, I also do not place blind faith in them, particularly when they are employed by the entity that has a significant financial stake in obtaining their blessing.

 

[raidermatt]

There is nothing any of us can do about peoples' pre-existing health conditions, and no way we can know about them, but to claim that this one ride should be shut down because "it's a killer" is naive, IMO.

Given the data available, I agree we cannot definitively come to that conclusion. I will say, however, that IF the ride is more dangerous to people with commonly undiagnosed or otherwise mild conditions, that would be a problem. In this case, I'd define mild as conditions that are generally not aggrevated by other rides at WDW that have similar warnings as M:S.

 

[lark]

Again, it comes down to an erroneous cause and effect relationship in an attempt to find blame. He/she went on this ride...died shortly thereafter...therefore the ride was the cause of death.

Well, once again (and it will be my last time on this thread) I don't think that's what many of us are saying at all.

Our point is that sometimes correlation is causation. We just don't know. There could have been causation in one, both, or none of these cases.

I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that wrongfully attributing causation where it did not exist can be a bad thing. I also hope there is nobody on this board who doesn't agree that when there has been correlation and death or serious injury is the result that not doing everything humanly possible to eliminate causation is reckless.

Incidentally, there certainly was "but for" causation in the case of the little boy. If he had not gotten on MS that morning, he wouldn't have died when and how he did. Now, might he have died in his hotel at the same instant? Or 10 years later during a track meet? We cannot say. None of this means it was disney's fault, but these issues are so much more complicated than anyone who makes either statement:

1) There was causation.
2) There was no causation.