News Round Up

[rteetz]

Yeah it seemed to be changing daily so I was curious if it was complete yet

nope should be within a week or two.

 

[jlundeen]

Film of Disney's first creation, lost in 1928, is found

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34716906

 

[Spacedog1975]

nope should be within a week or two.

Here's hoping more on the week than the "or two" side of the equation. My trip hits on the 14th, and I was hoping it would have been done by now. Of course I was also hoping for Skipper's Canteen, but you can't win them all

 

[rteetz]

Disney donated over 800,000 pounds of food

http://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2015/11/disney-harvest-celebrates-another-very.html

 

[rteetz]

Seaworld has raised prices

http://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2015/11/seaworld-orlandos-prices-go-up-makos.html

 

[rteetz]

Vertical loop now partially gone on the hulk

https://twitter.com/bioreconstruct/status/661669355273494528

 

[eXo]

Seaworld has raised prices

http://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2015/11/seaworld-orlandos-prices-go-up-makos.html

These guys are going to be acquired sooner than later. A price increase when their attendance is suffering this badly? $99 a day? They appear to believe they can charge as much as Magic Kingdom with 1/2 of the activities.

It appears the Orlando Flex ticket has jumped from $335 for 2015 to $369 for 2016.

The SeaWorld here in Texas keeps chopping itself up into smaller parks and charging admission for each area. A few years back they took the small waterpark area, made it a separate entrance, and dubbed it as a full blown Aquatica with separate admission. Now they are taking the dolphin area, remodeling it into premium dolphin swimming paid encounters and walling it off into a third section of the park (again, with it's own admission).

SeaWorld San Antonio is not a huge place. You can take the water park and the dolphins away and get away with charging full price. That said, a one day ticket is $70, so while cheaper than orlando, it is also a fraction of the size.

Now that all the stunt shows and such are gone from the parks, it's turned into a glorified aquarium with a ride or two.

 

[rteetz]

These guys are going to be acquired sooner than later. A price increase when their attendance is suffering this badly? $99 a day? They appear to believe they can charge as much as Magic Kingdom with 1/2 of the activities.

It appears the Orlando Flex ticket has jumped from $335 for 2015 to $369 for 2016.

The SeaWorld here in Texas keeps chopping itself up into smaller parks and charging admission for each area. A few years back they took the small waterpark area, made it a separate entrance, and dubbed it as a full blown Aquatica with separate admission. Now they are taking the dolphin area, remodeling it into premium dolphin swimming paid encounters and walling it off into a third section of the park (again, with it's own admission).

SeaWorld San Antonio is not a huge place. You can take the water park and the dolphins away and get away with charging full price. That said, a one day ticket is $70, so while cheaper than orlando, it is also a fraction of the size.

Now that all the stunt shows and such are gone from the parks, it's turned into a glorified aquarium with a ride or two.

Well I'm sure they feel they should be relatively close to universal and Disney. Usually once one company raises prices he rest follow suit.

SeaWorld needs new life. Blackfish literally killed them and they didn't handle the PR very well after it either. The big blue world project and Mako are only going to help a little bit if any.

 

[eXo]

Mako looks like a fine coaster and all, but that's like Disney sticking a shark in a tank at DHS, naming him Bruce, and expecting it to boost attendance. It doesn't fit the core demo of the park. SeaWorld coasters always felt like an after thought. Something to keep people busy between the shows and encourage them to drop some cash at the carnie games peppered throughout the area. When a park only has 1 or 2 coasters (Is orlando up to three now?), then it really doesn't take long to hit them all up. Mako, for all of it's glory, will bring back the cross section of seaworld fans that are also thrill seekers *one more time*. That's it. A family is in orlando for Disney or Universal and if they happen to have enough thrill lovers, then maybe they book a day at SeaWorld to check out all the hubub surrounding mako. But the shows will be the same. Maybe a few lines have changed, but it's the same trained actions over at the walrus and otter show, it's the same princess story over at the Blue Life or whatever-its-called stage, and 'shamu stadium' is still relying on a handful of jumps and splashes to carry the entire show since all the trainer/animal interaction has been striped out.

SeaWorld's response to blackfish is a text book example of how to let a nut shot cripple you. They didn't roll with the punch. They didn't get out in front of it. They came across as defensive and even petulant in some cases. It was the corporate equivalent of saying, "Nuh Uh! YOUR LYING! YOU are the stinkypants!". Blackfish almost solely relies on crucifying them for their actions in the 70's with a few long shots at extrapolating those actions to their current business model. Sucking it up and admitting the company has come a long way since then and framing it within the context of how the world has changed in that time would have been exponentially better than just ignoring it and pretending none of it ever happened.

Fast forward to 5 years later and they are trying to fix things by building a roller coaster and raising prices. If that's not delusional, I don't know what is.

 

[rteetz]

Mako looks like a fine coaster and all, but that's like Disney sticking a shark in a tank at DHS, naming him Bruce, and expecting it to boost attendance. It doesn't fit the core demo of the park. SeaWorld coasters always felt like an after thought. Something to keep people busy between the shows and encourage them to drop some cash at the carnie games peppered throughout the area. When a park only has 1 or 2 coasters (Is orlando up to three now?), then it really doesn't take long to hit them all up. Mako, for all of it's glory, will bring back the cross section of seaworld fans that are also thrill seekers *one more time*. That's it. A family is in orlando for Disney or Universal and if they happen to have enough thrill lovers, then maybe they book a day at SeaWorld to check out all the hubub surrounding mako. But the shows will be the same. Maybe a few lines have changed, but it's the same trained actions over at the walrus and otter show, it's the same princess story over at the Blue Life or whatever-its-called stage, and 'shamu stadium' is still relying on a handful of jumps and splashes to carry the entire show since all the trainer/animal interaction has been striped out.

SeaWorld's response to blackfish is a text book example of how to let a nut shot cripple you. They didn't roll with the punch. They didn't get out in front of it. They came across as defensive and even petulant in some cases. It was the corporate equivalent of saying, "Nuh Uh! YOUR LYING! YOU are the stinkypants!". Blackfish almost solely relies on crucifying them for their actions in the 70's with a few long shots at extrapolating those actions to their current business model. Sucking it up and admitting the company has come a long way since then and framing it within the context of how the world has changed in that time would have been exponentially better than just ignoring it and pretending none of it ever happened.

Fast forward to 5 years later and they are trying to fix things by building a roller coaster and raising prices. If that's not delusional, I don't know what is.

I've never been to SeaWorld but with their management at the time PETA knew they could get them. If PETA tried that with Disney or someone else it likely wouldn't be as successful. I think it also goes quite unnoticed the amount of rescue work that SeaWorld goes in the ocean areas. I am not one of those people who thinks SeaWorld is awful and needs to be shut down like PETA does. Many people just want Orcas out of captivity well you release the, and they likely die back in the wild. That also opens the flood gates to have people come in and say oh stingrays or mako sharks shouldn't be in captivity either. If that's the case Zoos around the world shouldn't exist either. What company out there at this point is looking to acquire SeaWorld?

 

[eXo]

Comcast (Universal's parent) has sniffed around a few times in the past. I believe the last time rumors of that kind were swirling around was in the summer of 2014.

The first question is: Is Sea World's business model sustainable. All orca's in the company are bred from each other and essentially every other sea mammal there is either bred in the parks or brought in from a rescue. However public opinion appears to have shifted against the exact shows that made Sea World famous. Trainers used to get launched 50 feet in the air by breaching orcas, or water ski on Dolphins, or any multitude of other behaviors that enamored children in the 80's and 90's. Now it is 'cruel' to make these animals perform, and the shows have been dialed back to demonstrations of their abilities they use in the wild. The problem with this approach is it starts striking a bit close to home in regards to the fact that these animals are hunters. So we get a very tame version of orca behavior that shows how they can slide up on shore, effectively beaching themselves, but without mentioning that they do this to eat sea lions.

A highlight of any child's visit to Sea World used to be feeding the dolphins and hoping they came close enough to feel their rubbery skin pass across your finger tips. Well, no more feeding the dolphins. That's not natural either. Instead it is gated off into it's own park and interactions with dolphins are now limited to people who have enough cash to pay for private time. Orlando may not have done this yet, but give it time.

Apart from the lack of variety available to the trainers, the shows themselves seem to be used for 10+ years. In a company whose entertainment is primarily the shows themselves, this is not a good practice. They appear to hire someone to write a song, they base a show around that song, and they keep that show for a decade. I've been to Orlando 4 times in the past 10 years, and 3 of those times I went to Sea World before I realized nothing was ever changing except they had cut back on some of the bigger stunts in the orca show after the trainer got killed. By the last time we went, it felt like all the shows had been inspired by the late 90's Cirque Du Soleil surge, but hadn't changed a single bit since then. They simply aren't designed to encourage repeat visitation. Your average person doesn't walk out of Magic Kingdom and say, "Ok, check that of the list. No need to come back here again!" And Universal iss itting over there constantly adding new attractions on an annual basis. Then you have all the seasonal events that Disney and Universal have in order to lure families and couples out multiple times per year. Meanwhile, that same little kid is singing that same little song in that same little video montage about how he saw a whale when he was 5 and always wanted to be a whale trainer and now, BAM, he is whatever whale trainer happens to be hosting your show. Oh, and by the way, the wooden whale tail he had on during the montage is available in the gift shop for $25. Yes, the same one you thought looked kind of cool 10 years ago but didn't buy because it was too expensive.

So with all that said, is the business model sustainable? I tend to doubt it is. Roller Coasters and theme park slants in a city with the two most popular themepark companies in the world is a pretty ridiculous way to try and separate yourself from the crowd.

So the second question is, if it is not sustainable - then what do they do? Unlike Six Flags, they don't really have the option of selling out to local owners. An operation like Sea World requires massive resources. Lets pretend Sea World wanted to drop the San Antonio location. What company in their right mind would by an ocean based company in the center of Texas without access to the facilities, experts, and such that Sea World has at their San Diego and Orlando facilities. And for the record, even before the Texas location got divided up into 3 parts, it STILL felt like a miniature version of the coastal Sea Worlds. The Texas location is the most extreme example of the three, but I'd argue that you essentially need one on each coast at the very least. I'd argue that Sea World simply can not operate as a single location. So at most, they could drop the Texas location and cut their operations back to two locations. Or, just keep gating off different parts of the Texas location and trying to convince people they are worth paying separate ticket prices for. Either way, it shows the location isn't holding it's own financially, and since there will never be a buyer for it logistically, they either have to close it and walk away from it or keep finding ways to try and upcharge and hope it doesn't slaughter attendance to the point of being unsustainable.

When Disney raises prices, we know it's because 'they can'. Supply and demand and all that. When Sea World gates off sections, charges new admission, raises regular admission, etc... yet simultaneously has dropping stock value and attendance... well, that's a clear sign they are hemorrhaging and desperate. Demand is not behind this at all.

What Sea World DOES have is prime real estate. And lots of it. With the roll out of Discovery Cove, the traditional Sea World experience is pretty out dated. A company, such as Comcast, could purchase Sea World and continue running Discovery Cove as a premier ocean interaction park. Including the parking lots and admin space, Sea World sits on just over 200 acres. That doesn't include Aquatica or Discovery Cove. That's *just* Sea World.

To put that into perspective, Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure COMBINED are sitting on 180 acres (that doesn't include citiwalk (@10 acres), the resorts, or the backstage/admin areas). Magic Kingdom (including the River) is about 98 acres (wikipedia and other sources say 107, however that extra 10 acres is back stage/non-use areas).

The point is that Sea World's location, size, and proximity to I-Drive may be a lot more valuable that the animals in it's tank over the next 10 years.

However I think any prospective buyers will sit back and let them bleed out for a while longer. If they were closer in proximity to Universal, I would have hazarded a guess that they would have been bought out already by now.

edit: went back and clarified some points

 

[wareagle57]

Mako looks like a fine coaster and all, but that's like Disney sticking a shark in a tank at DHS, naming him Bruce, and expecting it to boost attendance. It doesn't fit the core demo of the park. SeaWorld coasters always felt like an after thought. Something to keep people busy between the shows and encourage them to drop some cash at the carnie games peppered throughout the area. When a park only has 1 or 2 coasters (Is orlando up to three now?), then it really doesn't take long to hit them all up. Mako, for all of it's glory, will bring back the cross section of seaworld fans that are also thrill seekers *one more time*. That's it. A family is in orlando for Disney or Universal and if they happen to have enough thrill lovers, then maybe they book a day at SeaWorld to check out all the hubub surrounding mako. But the shows will be the same. Maybe a few lines have changed, but it's the same trained actions over at the walrus and otter show, it's the same princess story over at the Blue Life or whatever-its-called stage, and 'shamu stadium' is still relying on a handful of jumps and splashes to carry the entire show since all the trainer/animal interaction has been striped out.

SeaWorld's response to blackfish is a text book example of how to let a nut shot cripple you. They didn't roll with the punch. They didn't get out in front of it. They came across as defensive and even petulant in some cases. It was the corporate equivalent of saying, "Nuh Uh! YOUR LYING! YOU are the stinkypants!". Blackfish almost solely relies on crucifying them for their actions in the 70's with a few long shots at extrapolating those actions to their current business model. Sucking it up and admitting the company has come a long way since then and framing it within the context of how the world has changed in that time would have been exponentially better than just ignoring it and pretending none of it ever happened.

Fast forward to 5 years later and they are trying to fix things by building a roller coaster and raising prices. If that's not delusional, I don't know what is.

I haven't been to Sea World since I was very young and before they started adding coasters. But as an avid coaster fan, my general impression of them is that they have the best coasters in town.

 

[rteetz]

I haven't been to Sea World since I was very young and before they started adding coasters. But as an avid coaster fan, my general impression of them is that they have the best coasters in town.

That is true I've never heard someone say their coaster are bad.

 

[rteetz]

Comcast (Universal's parent) has sniffed around a few times in the past. I believe the last time rumors of that kind were swirling around was in the summer of 2014.

The first question is: Is Sea World's business model sustainable. All orca's in the company are bred from each other and essentially every other sea mammal there is either bred in the parks or brought in from a rescue. However public opinion appears to have shifted against the exact shows that made Sea World famous. Trainers used to get launched 50 feet in the air by breaching orcas, or water ski on Dolphins, or any multitude of other behaviors that enamored children in the 80's and 90's. Now it is 'cruel' to make these animals perform, and the shows have been dialed back to demonstrations of their abilities they use in the wild. The problem with this approach is it starts striking a bit close to home in regards to the fact that these animals are hunters. So we get a very tame version of orca behavior that shows how they can slide up on shore, effectively beaching themselves, but without mentioning that they do this to eat sea lions.

A highlight of any child's visit to Sea World used to be feeding the dolphins and hoping they came close enough to feel their rubbery skin pass across your finger tips. Well, no more feeding the dolphins. That's not natural either. Instead it is gated off into it's own park and interactions with dolphins are now limited to people who have enough cash to pay for private time. Orlando may not have done this yet, but give it time.

Apart from the lack of variety available to the trainers, the shows themselves seem to be used for 10+ years. In a company whose entertainment is primarily the shows themselves, this is not a good practice. They appear to hire someone to write a song, they base a show around that song, and they keep that show for a decade. I've been to Orlando 4 times in the past 10 years, and 3 of those times I went to Sea World before I realized nothing was ever changing except they had cut back on some of the bigger stunts in the orca show after the trainer got killed. By the last time we went, it felt like all the shows had been inspired by the late 90's Cirque Du Soleil surge, but hadn't changed a single bit since then. They simply aren't designed to encourage repeat visitation. Your average person doesn't walk out of Magic Kingdom and say, "Ok, check that of the list. No need to come back here again!" And Universal iss itting over there constantly adding new attractions on an annual basis. Then you have all the seasonal events that Disney and Universal have in order to lure families and couples out multiple times per year. Meanwhile, that same little kid is singing that same little song in that same little video montage about how he saw a whale when he was 5 and always wanted to be a whale trainer and now, BAM, he is whatever whale trainer happens to be hosting your show. Oh, and by the way, the wooden whale tail he had on during the montage is available in the gift shop for $25. Yes, the same one you thought looked kind of cool 10 years ago but didn't buy because it was too expensive.

So with all that said, is the business model sustainable? I tend to doubt it is. Roller Coasters and theme park slants in a city with the two most popular themepark companies in the world is a pretty ridiculous way to try and separate yourself from the crowd.

So the second question is, if it is not sustainable - then what do they do? Unlike Six Flags, they don't really have the option of selling out to local owners. An operation like Sea World requires massive resources. Lets pretend Sea World wanted to drop the San Antonio location. What company in their right mind would by an ocean based company in the center of Texas without access to the facilities, experts, and such that Sea World has at their San Diego and Orlando facilities. And for the record, even before the Texas location got divided up into 3 parts, it STILL felt like a miniature version of the coastal Sea Worlds. The Texas location is the most extreme example of the three, but I'd argue that you essentially need one on each coast at the very least. I'd argue that Sea World simply can not operate as a single location. So at most, they could drop the Texas location and cut their operations back to two locations. Or, just keep gating off different parts of the Texas location and trying to convince people they are worth paying separate ticket prices for. Either way, it shows the location isn't holding it's own financially, and since there will never be a buyer for it logistically, they either have to close it and walk away from it or keep finding ways to try and upcharge and hope it doesn't slaughter attendance to the point of being unsustainable.

When Disney raises prices, we know it's because 'they can'. Supply and demand and all that. When Sea World gates off sections, charges new admission, raises regular admission, etc... yet simultaneously has dropping stock value and attendance... well, that's a clear sign they are hemorrhaging and desperate. Demand is not behind this at all.

What Sea World DOES have is prime real estate. And lots of it. With the roll out of Discovery Cove, the traditional Sea World experience is pretty out dated. A company, such as Comcast, could purchase Sea World and continue running Discovery Cove as a premier ocean interaction park. Including the parking lots and admin space, Sea World sits on just over 200 acres. That doesn't include Aquatica or Discovery Cove. That's *just* Sea World.

To put that into perspective, Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure COMBINED are sitting on 180 acres (that doesn't include citiwalk (@10 acres), the resorts, or the backstage/admin areas). Magic Kingdom (including the River) is about 98 acres (wikipedia and other sources say 107, however that extra 10 acres is back stage/non-use areas).

The point is that Sea World's location, size, and proximity to I-Drive may be a lot more valuable that the animals in it's tank over the next 10 years.

However I think any prospective buyers will sit back and let them bleed out for a while longer. If they were closer in proximity to Universal, I would have hazarded a guess that they would have been bought out already by now.

edit: went back and clarified some points

Yes I know about the universal/Comcast rumors but I just don't know if they'd want to do it. It is interesting how each SeaWorld park is run differently. I feel like discovery cove is really the most profitable thing they have right now. It is one highly rated experience and people love doing it even if it is expensive.

 

[skier_pete]

I haven't been on Manta -our last visit to Sea World Orlando was 2006 - but the two older rides are amazing at Sea World - the Kraken was awesome.

However - it always seemed strange to me that who exactly are they trying to court. The Sea World demo you would think would mostly be families with small children. Is putting Kraken and Manta supposed to be to get the thrill riders to come to? Or is it to keep the teens occupied while mom and dad take Junior to the sea lion show?

PETA did a very effective campaign against these parks as well, which of course hurt things severely. They had to scale back the shows, which of course makes a repeat visitor think "Oh, this isn't as good as it used to be".

 

[umichigan10]

I haven't been on Manta -our last visit to Sea World Orlando was 2006 - but the two older rides are amazing at Sea World - the Kraken was awesome.

However - it always seemed strange to me that who exactly are they trying to court. The Sea World demo you would think would mostly be families with small children. Is putting Kraken and Manta supposed to be to get the thrill riders to come to? Or is it to keep the teens occupied while mom and dad take Junior to the sea lion show?

PETA did a very effective campaign against these parks as well, which of course hurt things severely. They had to scale back the shows, which of course makes a repeat visitor think "Oh, this isn't as good as it used to be".

I feel like Anheuser Busch is trying to use the same strategy with roller coasters used at Busch gardens. The problem is they have quality and not quantity and that formula isn't going to work if they don't have the number of coasters necessary

 

[rteetz]

The Christmas tree is up at the Magic Kingdom.

http://www.wdwmagic.com/events/holi...agic-kingdom-complete-with-christmas-tree.htm

 

[rteetz]

A permit was filed for frozen show set and projection installation for the new ride

 

[rteetz]

Disney springs parking lots renamed

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...ney-springs-parking-lots-to-get-new-names.htm

 

[thepops]

The Christmas tree is up at the Magic Kingdom.

http://www.wdwmagic.com/events/holi...agic-kingdom-complete-with-christmas-tree.htm

The DHS one was in sections off in one of the parking lots the other day (walled off of course). You could spot parts of it as we went by on the bus, so it should be up shortly.