News Round Up

[twebber55]

It's the 4th most popular because it isn't that good.

If it's a leveled playing field and we are talking about the same coaster. A Star Wars version or Tron version, I'll take the Star Wars one everytime.

I highlighted and bolded the main point... execution matters
its kind of like the people ripping avatar s concept turn around and love the new Adventure Isle area of Shanghai...WHY?

 

[Josh Hendy]

I saw it as a child - my kids saw it when they were young before it was locked away...loved it then, still love it now. Love the story and love the animation. Is it an actual portrayal of life in that era? Hardly - but calling it "vey racist" I believe is too harsh.

Oy vey! I didn't.

 

[pilferk]

It's the 4th most popular because it isn't that good.

If it's a leveled playing field and we are talking about the same coaster. A Star Wars version or Tron version, I'll take the Star Wars one everytime.

EXACTLY! You just said it. The quality of the attraction is more important than the property its based on.

It works both ways....

 

[DDLand]

I see an interesting conversation brewing here. I'll keep my thoughts on this to one post because this isn't rumors or news...

I'll start off by saying I've really been at war with myself for the last few months on "execution is the most important part" crowd. I'm incredibly sympathetic to the notion that if an IP is well executed then we'll be able to appreciate the ride. Ride above all else. That's what matters. I think in a way that makes logical sense. The ride should be judged by technology, show quality, and purpose. That's how a logical human should view it.

Sadly we're far from logical.

We let preconceptions and past experiences shape our view of a ride before even entering in. I had pretty warm feelings for Cars Land already even before going because I liked Cars especially when I was younger. (while not a masterpiece by any stretch, 9 year old boys like machines).

Is that at all rational? Nope. Why should I be more excited about a Land even before going into it than something else just because it has a good IP attached? Because we're not logical. Because we're already creating preconceived notions even before walking through the gate. Why do you think they use IP? Because we already have those preset feelings and expectations. Those feelings of nostalgia and warmth can be harnessed by Disney to create additional traffic by using things like Cars Land. Do I think Cars Land would be popular if it wasn't based on an IP that generates billions in consumer products sales? Yeah. Do I think it would be anywhere near as popular? Nope.

IP does create a draw. More so than an original attraction. That's why Disney builds them.

Now the problem. In the same we have preconceived notions on how good something must be because it's based off of our favorite book or movie, it can also work in the reverse.

Frankly I think Avatar is crap.

You can tell me how great the rides will be, show me loads of concept art, hype it up and yet I still have this pit in my stomach. I've said it before, I think Avatar is going to be beautiful and the ride should be awesome, but I still don't like it.

I already have illogical preconceived notions.

I know I'll probably walk in there and just be blown away by how richly themed it all is, and I can't wait to see the "bio luminescent" plants. The video is gorgeous. Still I'll never feel at home there. I'll never fully be at ease there like I am in Asia, because I just can't fall in love with it.

Disney has begun asking guests to do something unprecedented, step into the world of the movies. They don't want you in one of their stories, they want you in movie. Frankly I don't want to step into the world of Avatar. I'll go inside, but I'll never be there.

Rides are great, but they only have 7 minutes or so to break past any of my original judgements of the IP. That's an almost impossible order. They just can't always get past preconceived notions. That's just how it is.

I see Splash Mountain tossed around here liberally. How many of you had any preconceived notions about that ride before going on it? Splash Mountain is a poor example because it represents a completely self contained story in the attraction in a classic way of retelling the tale. Whereas for Avatar or Star Wars for example, you're immediately expected to understand all sorts of back story there's none of that baggage. While it's possible there may be a film or story that's as simple as that of Brer Rabbit's and the Tale's of Uncle Remus, Avatar, Marvel, and Cars aren't consistent with that.

No IP in recent memory fits that bill.

Though what I don't understand is why are they using crappy IP like Tron when they could use original? They're in essence outsourcing key components of their job of story telling when Imagineers use IP. They need to just show us what they've got when they can. Adventure Isle which looks like it's going to be one of the coolest lands in the history of Disney Parks and the Society of Explorers and Adventurers show us what they can do when they're allowed to control the narrative.

And it's awesome.

I'll close where I began, ride execution should be the end all for logical people. Most people aren't logical. They bring preconceived notions which can work to the detriment and powerful benefit of WDC... And Avatar Land does not fit into the theme of DAK at all. They might have well had put a high rise in there.

 

[twebber55]

I see an interesting conversation brewing here. I'll keep my thoughts on this to one post because this isn't rumors or news...

I'll start off by saying I've really been at war with myself for the last few months on "execution is the most important part" crowd. I'm incredibly sympathetic to the notion that if an IP is well executed then we'll be able to appreciate the ride. Ride above all else. That's what matters. I think in a way that makes logical sense. The ride should be judged by technology, show quality, and purpose. That's how a logical human should view it.

Sadly we're far from logical.

We let preconceptions and past experiences shape our view of a ride before even entering in. I had pretty warm feelings for Cars Land already even before going because I liked Cars especially when I was younger. (while not a masterpiece by any stretch, 9 year old boys like machines).

Is that at all rational? Nope. Why should I be more excited about a Land even before going into it than something else just because it has a good IP attached? Because we're not logical. Because we're already creating preconceived notions even before walking through the gate. Why do you think they use IP? Because we already have those preset feelings and expectations. Those feelings of nostalgia and warmth can be harnessed by Disney to create additional traffic by using things like Cars Land. Do I think Cars Land would be popular if it wasn't based on an IP that generates billions in consumer products sales? Yeah. Do I think it would be anywhere near as popular? Nope.

IP does create a draw. More so than an original attraction. That's why Disney builds them.

Now the problem. In the same we have preconceived notions on how good something must be because it's based off of our favorite book or movie, it can also work in the reverse.

Frankly I think Avatar is crap.

You can tell me how great the rides will be, show me loads of concept art, hype it up and yet I still have this pit in my stomach. I've said it before, I think Avatar is going to be beautiful and the ride should be awesome, but I still don't like it.

I already have illogical preconceived notions.

I know I'll probably walk in there and just be blown away by how richly themed it all is, and I can't wait to see the "bio luminescent" plants. The video is gorgeous. Still I'll never feel at home there. I'll never fully be at ease there like I am in Asia, because I just can't fall in love with it.

Disney has begun asking guests to do something unprecedented, step into the world of the movies. They don't want you in one of their stories, they want you in movie. Frankly I don't want to step into the world of Avatar. I'll go inside, but I'll never be there.

Rides are great, but they only have 7 minutes or so to break past any of my original judgements of the IP. That's an almost impossible order. They just can't always get past preconceived notions. That's just how it is.

I see Splash Mountain tossed around here liberally. How many of you had any preconceived notions about that ride before going on it? Splash Mountain is a poor example because it represents a completely self contained story in the attraction in a classic way of retelling the tale. Whereas for Avatar or Star Wars for example, you're immediately expected to understand all sorts of back story there's none of that baggage. While it's possible there may be a film or story that's as simple as that of Brer Rabbits and the Tale's of Uncle Remus, Avatar, Marvel, and Cars aren't consistent with that.

No IP in recent memory fits that bill.

Though what I don't understand is why are they using crappy IP like Tron when they could use original. It's kind of like outsourcing key components of their job, like story telling when Imagineers use IP. They need to just show us what they've got when they can. Adventure Isle which looks like it's going to be one of the coolest lands in the history of Disney Parks and the Society of Explorers and Adventurers show us what they can do when they're allowed to control the narrative.

And it's awesome.

I'll close where I began, ride execution should be the end all for logical people. Most people aren't logical. They bring conceived notions which can work the detriment and powerful benefit of WDI... And Avatar Land does not fit into the theme of DAK at all. They might have well had put a high rise in there.

Some thoughts
1. I have a hard time understanding people who will struggle with liking/not liking a theme park land based on their feelings of a movie
2. if splash isn't a good example Toy Story Land in Hong Kong vs Cars Land is...obviously Toy Story is the much bigger IP but there is no doubt what land is more popular...again execution is key
3. Tron is cool because of the aesthetic...Are you telling me you would rather ride space mtn than Tron?

 

[rteetz]

Spirit says DTD will officially change names October 1st to Disney Springs.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I give the Tron coaster a pass just because of the "gee whiz" factor. The light cycles lend themselves to an exciting hi-tech coaster (assuming the Shanghai coaster is actually any good). The movie isn't a classic in most people's books, but it's a significant milestone in film history because of the CG effects and thus it will never be so obscure that people won't understand the meaning of the coaster.

If you want an example of a very good ride with a completely meaningless and obscure movie tie-in ... check out Mission Space. I give that a pass too. At least it has a legitimate star actor in the pre-show, even if people are too hypnotized by his eyebrows to wonder what he's doing in a Disney ride pre-show.

I don't think that Splash Mountain has any relevance at all to the movie Song of the South, because it's not about that movie at all, but only about 2 of the 3 interpolated Br'er Rabbit stories (The Laughing Place and the Briar Patch). Those cartoon segments stand on their own, as if they were Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny shorts. I assume that's why the ride was OK'd in the first place ... great cartoons, great music, let's just pretend the rest of the movie never happened ...

 

[DDLand]

Some thoughts
1. I have a hard time understanding people who will struggle with liking/not liking a theme park land based on their feelings of a movie
2. if splash isn't a good example Toy Story Land in Hong Kong vs Cars Land is...obviously Toy Story is the much bigger IP but there is no doubt what land is more popular...again execution is key
3. Tron is cool because of the aesthetic...Are you telling me you would rather ride space mtn than Tron?

This is a good post.
1)I struggle to understand those who don't In all seriousness, it's pretty basic for us to connect to and pre judge something based on its brand. That goes for any product. Why does Disney build with IPs? Because Disney wants us to use our preconceived notions to help us connect with the place and gain hype.
2) Execution is important. You'll never find me saying otherwise. However, the power of brands holds significant sway over guests. Admittedly, RSRs has a much higher capacity than the Elsa and Anna meet and greet, but for months on end we saw higher wait times for Frozen than RSRs. Sometimes quality alone doesn't control consumer demand. Brands do. I also wouldn't discount Toy Story completely either. It along with its two other lands have boosted attendance at HKDL by around 50% if I'm not mistaken.

Hey @twebber55, I'm refraining from posting anymore, but I will address your TS Land comment. Toy Story Land opened in late 2011, which was half way through the HKDL fiscal year. Attendance increased by 700,000 that year. That's only half the year mind you. The year following attendance increased by another 800,000 guests. So from 2010, before TS Land, to 2012 a year and a half after launch, attendance at HKDL increased by 1.5 Million guests. That's pretty powerful stuff. Toy Story Land made a big impact.

3) I'd rather they spent all that money innovating and building story around a next generation Space Mountain or some Tomorrowland E Ticket I've never even imagined. Wasting their time building a story around characters and show features that aren't relevant at all is a terrible waste. Think of the potential stories Imagineering could have created had they been unleashed from a pathetic IP. The Society of Explorers and Adventurers, The Ravenswoods, and Arbori prove they can do amazing things. Better than just about any other IP ever.

Update:I'd also say Anandapur too, that story is extravagant.

Update 2: Because I'm going to refrain from anymore posts, I'll leave these two quotes on why I wish Tron had been trashed.
A description of Adventure Isle: "The history of Adventure Isle combines lore and Disney imagination, beginning with the Arbori people, whose thriving civilization was founded on this island several thousand years ago. As the story goes, the island was discovered by a group of international explorers known as the League of Adventurers. Every corner of Adventure Isle offers guests of all ages the chance to unravel ancient mysteries, reconnect with a land lost in time and create cherished memories."

A beautiful story that follows and makes sense, one that will leave you immersed. Compare that to Tomorrowland: " They will learn that Shanghai was chosen by Sam Flynn as a location for the permanent portal between Earth and his computer world of TRON; that the United Galactic Federation selected Tomorrowland as the ideal location for their Stitch Monitoring Station; and that Buzz Lightyear chose Tomorrowland as his Earth-bound Star Command station for the recruitment and mounting of planet-saving missions."

That's why I wish Disney Imagineers had been allowed to create Magic.

 

[rteetz]

I know this is a great discussion and should be discussed here but I feel like the news and rumors being posted are getting lost tho in between the discussion.

 

[DDLand]

If you want an example of a very good ride with a completely meaningless and obscure movie tie-in ... check out Mission Space. I give that a pass too. At least it has a legitimate star actor in the pre-show, even if people are too hypnotized by his eyebrows to wonder what he's doing in a Disney ride pre-show.

Good post all around, and I agree just about everything you said. I'm a little more optimistic about Tron though, the renderings look pretty cool.

As for Mission Space lol I didn't even realize that tie in existed until I read an article about it. As I understand it, they were half way into making the ride when the film bombed. So they basically buried any reference to the film except the actor. Awkward

Alright, I'll leave it here for the everyone's sake. I did say I would only do one post didn't I? That went to the wind!

 

[rteetz]

FP+ test for fantastic in DHS

http://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2015/07/hollywood-studios-new-fastpass-test-at.html

 

[GimmeMoreMagic]

Made with magic sippers coming to DLR

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/bl...gic-sippers-coming-soon-to-disneyland-resort/

i thought this said sLippers and i got really excited until the link opened. haha. the sippers are still kinda cool tho.

 

[beer dave]

I'm also surprised by the Frontierland expansion. Not only would I hate to see Tom Sawyer's Island go away, but that's a really good transition between Frontierland and Liberty Square. I think it'll stay.

I too would rather see an update of Tomorrowland, as it's looking decidedly more like Yesterdayland. Plus with BTMM and Splash Mountain, why does Frontierland need another big ride?

The thing about frontier land is that it is similar in a way to the tower of terror area in HS--- one way in and out-- and no one hangs out in frontier land-- just walk in, ride one or two rides, and leave. Even if they didn't put in another E, they need to re work the area to allow for circulation and increase the profitability of a kind of useless land. (marketing wise anyway)

 

[beer dave]

I'm gonna pretend you're not referring to Sonny Eclipse!

Bring back Michael Iceberg...........

 

[jlundeen]

Yeah "Song of the South" isn't what I would call racist, at least in the typically offensive way. Though those that find it offensive is more about what it doesn't show, as it's more of a "stereotyping" in that it portrays Uncle Remus as a happy to be living on in a cabin on the farm working for his "master" in the post-Civil War south. Probably as true a portrayal of the black experience in the late 1800s as **** Van Dyke's portrayal of a Victorian era chimney sweep was. That said, they're are a lot more WAY more racially offensive cartoons and other shows that are available from that era - I would argue that portrayal of the crows in Dumbo are just as bad and check out "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips" sometime if you want to see a cartoon that should be offensive to anyone with a soul - its readily available.

Anyways, what it comes down to is I wish Disney wouldn't be so squeamish about releasing Song of the South. Place a disclaimer on the disc about it's historical context, and allow people to decide for themselves.

I totally agree with this!

 

[twebber55]

The thing about frontier land is that it is similar in a way to the tower of terror area in HS--- one way in and out-- and no one hangs out in frontier land-- just walk in, ride one or two rides, and leave. Even if they didn't put in another E, they need to re work the area to allow for circulation and increase the profitability of a kind of useless land. (marketing wise anyway)

great point...WDI seems to be thinking infrastructure a lot lately

 

[twebber55]

This is a good post.
1)I struggle to understand those who don't In all seriousness, it's pretty basic for us to connect to and pre judge something based on its brand. That goes for any product. Why does Disney build with IPs? Because Disney wants us to use our preconceived notions to help us connect with the place and gain hype.
2) Execution is important. You'll never find me saying otherwise. However, the power of brands holds significant sway over guests. Admittedly, RSRs has a much higher capacity than the Elsa and Anna meet and greet, but for months on end we saw higher wait times for Frozen than RSRs. Sometimes quality alone doesn't control consumer demand. Brands do. I also wouldn't discount Toy Story completely either. It along with its two other lands have boosted attendance at HKDL by around 50% if I'm not mistaken.
3) I'd rather they spent all that money innovating and building story around a next generation Space Mountain or some Tomorrowland E Ticket I've never even imagined. Wasting their time building a story around characters and show features that aren't relevant at all is a terrible waste. Think of the potential stories Imagineering could have created had they been unleashed from a pathetic IP. The Society of Explorers and Adventurers, The Ravenswoods, and Arbori prove they can do amazing things. Better than just about any other IP ever.

Update:I'd also say Anandapur too, that story is extravagant.

Update 2: Because I'm going to refrain from anymore posts, I'll leave these two quotes on why I wish Tron had been trashed.
A description of Adventure Isle: "The history of Adventure Isle combines lore and Disney imagination, beginning with the Arbori people, whose thriving civilization was founded on this island several thousand years ago. As the story goes, the island was discovered by a group of international explorers known as the League of Adventurers. Every corner of Adventure Isle offers guests of all ages the chance to unravel ancient mysteries, reconnect with a land lost in time and create cherished memories."

A beautiful story that follows and makes sense, one that will leave you immersed. Compare that to Tomorrowland: " They will learn that Shanghai was chosen by Sam Flynn as a location for the permanent portal between Earth and his computer world of TRON; that the United Galactic Federation selected Tomorrowland as the ideal location for their Stitch Monitoring Station; and that Buzz Lightyear chose Tomorrowland as his Earth-bound Star Command station for the recruitment and mounting of planet-saving missions."

That's why I wish Disney Imagineers had been allowed to create Magic.

two more thoughts
1. your number 2 is wrong Toy Story was already there during the down times for HKDL
2. what I bolded..... I don't think the average guest who makes up 99% of the crowds doesn't go oh I love the backstory to adventure isle, or oh I would really like this ride if the backstory was better...they see cool shiny thrill looks like fun... I look at IP as the icing on the cake another couple examples muppets and Winnie the pooh great IPs attractions are uh decent at best
anyways great debate and im done

 

[DenLo]

Star Tours is a simulation with lots of movement which eliminates all those guests that get motion sickness or think they might get sick or think their kids might get sick even after they have outgrown that tendency. Plus many guests are not Sci-Fi fans. And others think it is the same simulation over and over or don't the movies well enough to get the nuisances, so they think done it, seen everything, why do it again?

Or perhaps it's a hate/love situation. Personally I love Star Wars! But even for me it is often the 3rd or 4th ride on my To Do List for DHS as the lines are longer at other attractions.

As to a Star Wars or Tron roller coaster I like the looks of a Tron coaster anytime over a Star Wars one. Those lighted wheels are fabulous!

 

[jlundeen]

We love Star Tours...and we love doing it over and over...no problem with us that we really don't need a FP for this one! LOL

 

[skier_pete]

FP+ test for fantastic in DHS

http://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2015/07/hollywood-studios-new-fastpass-test-at.html

That's cool. This definitely seems like a show that you can let people pre-book their seats. I'm not sure how they will handle no-shows, though, as I would think a small percentage of people will grab passes but then not show up. Seems unlikely they will turn away people if their are empty seats.