NEW VGF Building

[KAT4DISNEY]

One more thought: When they split Saratoga springs into standard and preferred, they proved they could move points around between units.

There's actually no difference in the declarations based on views. The point values assigned are only on unit size. All 2BR units have the same amount of points and so on.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I don’t see why not. Like, they wouldn’t do that right away, but I would think that they could. I don’t know if anyone has kept careful track of the Jambo-Kidani split, but it’s not hard to imagine that occurring to some degree organically just trying to get the charts to work.

I'm not certain what you are referencing in a Jambo/Kidani split as they are all one association?

 

[sethschroeder]

This would be great at VGF! If it means that there is a smaller amount of rooms that are a little more affordable points wise, I would very interested! It would definitely make me prefer it to the Poly. I'm a fan of smaller point charts so if there is another resort that is a little more point friendly than I'm game!

Except this isn't meant to make them less expensive. All rooms will end most expensive than they are today. It's just today "low point rooms" as VGF will end up in the new building.

 

[sethschroeder]

I'm not certain what you are referencing in a Jambo/Kidani split as they are all one association?

Except that's my point/question.

They could create an excess of points with this new sale and have a bunch of extra points dumped in the existing rooms. Essentially making all the rooms more expensive than they are today.

So if they can shift points from Kidani to Jambo they could do it here.

 

[davidl81]

Except that's my point/question.

They could create an excess of points with this new sale and have a bunch of extra points dumped in the existing rooms. Essentially making all the rooms more expensive than they are today.

So if they can shift points from Kidani to Jambo they could do it here.

I think what Seth is proposing would be to make the new studios rent for say 50 points a night on average. So where each studio for a year is 18,250pts per year or 3.65M total new points. Then you could reduce the "new" studio points by 10 points, but add 10 points to all "older" VGF rooms. I don't think that would happen though.

 

[CastAStone]

There's actually no difference in the declarations based on views. The point values assigned are only on unit size. All 2BR units have the same amount of points and so on.

I did not know that! That’s true at all resorts?

 

[Lorana]

Right? Of the 300 rooms at Disneyland Tower, they only plan for like 20 1-bedrooms and 20 2-bedrooms.
I did my due diligence and gave feedback. In response, they said
"In determining what to build, we spend multiple hours studying overall member behavior at Disneyland which helped inform us.". Well.. ok but I don't think that's truly reflective of what it will be like when there are many more
East coast DVC owners at Disneyland. I know Disneyland isn't really a week long pair of parks for people - it's more
2-4 days - but while a lot of studios will be great I think the amount of 1's and 2's they planned is too few.

Right? As an East Coaster, we don't usually spend a full week at DL - half a week, tops, as we combine it with other things - but we like our space, and really prefer at least a 1BR. But from the floorplans I've seen, the Studios and 1BRs have only 2 sleeping surfaces, and while we're a family of 4, I have two teen boys who will not share a bed! We were excited about buying into DL Tower (though we do own at VGC), but we'd have to see the final plans/point charts/price points before we truly decide if this is right for us to own. I'm really disappointed that there aren't more 1BR/2BRs, but I'm especially disappointed the Studios won't sleep 5.

Like many people... we had a PLAN in our heads of our next DVC purchase (Disneyland Tower for us) but now we have to consider GF cuz location location location. Split stay with GF and RIV (where we own along with VGC) would be pretty awesome and I do love 1 bedrooms which will be even harder to get now at 7 months if we don't own there. Though the likely size of those new studios... I might be just fine with that for 2-3 nights!

My guess is that they will price VGF to the same as RIV & AUL, so current $201/point or whatever it is next year, with incentives that take it below $200. There's a psychological factor at play with a below-200 price point, even if that's only $199/point versus $201/point. ;-)

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Except that's my point/question.

They could create an excess of points with this new sale and have a bunch of extra points dumped in the existing rooms. Essentially making all the rooms more expensive than they are today.

So if they can shift points from Kidani to Jambo they could do it here.

Other than Concierge and Value the rooms at Kidani and Jambo are the same point requirements and those rooms number to small to shift points elsewhere. I would guess that when AKV changed several savannah views to standard view that it shifted a few points to Kidani since there were more rooms affected at Jambo but in the grand scheme of things it would have been minimal. That's a completely different things than VGF and was considered a good thing to better reflect views. The units had all been declared and there were no points created. AKV really has no comparison to what might be done at VGF.

If they declare this new VGF addition into the existing association I'd guess it is true that since there are no dedicated studios at VGF that the points declared for dedicated studio units might be higher than one would expect and potentially they could eventually shift points within the studios. I think the justification for DVC to declare these new rooms in with high points if the rooms themselves didn't justify them would be questioned. This still is the management that decided to originally match up CCV to an older point chart at BRV so they might not be quite so devious with point charts as is being thought. And to do it to add points to 47 existing studios? I don't know that's a limb that is worthwhile stepping out on.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I did not know that! That’s true at all resorts?

That is what the response was when I asked several years ago and would be true for all resorts. I am wondering if the Value 2BR units at AKL were declared the same though or if they were given a different point allocation. My question originated over BWV and didn't get in depth into AKV.

 

[Brian Noble]

That's because until recently the sales guides could offer far more benefits from buying direct than they can now.

IMO, you are over-thinking this. Selling timeshare is much simpler than you seem to be describing. It is an aspirational purchase, and it is sold, not bought--and both of those make a big difference in how things work.

Most guests on the tour have no idea how DVC works, or that the resale market exists. They are on vacation, having the time of their lives, and one of the Kiosk/Resort Reps (or maybe the in-room DVC TV loop) convinces them to take the tour. On that tour, the Guide explains to them that they can bottle this magical feeling of vacation and experience it for many years to come with some very affordable monthly payments.

Some of those guests buy. And, when they do they feel really good about it! After all, they just made a great investment in their family's future vacations. They do not want to know that it was a bad deal, and so they do not go looking for reasons that it was. How many people find their way to DIS during their rescind period asking if the purchase was a good idea? Not many. Even the few that do don't always rescind, because (a) they don't really want to and (b) enough people tell them that a retail purchase is a fine idea.

This isn't unique to DVC, where the resale contracts cost real money. A Wyndham contract is worth less than ten cents on the dollar the instant the ink on the contract dries. Yet Wyndham is very very good at selling timeshares.

Over on TUG, people used to say that the Internet would bring about the end of timeshare sales. It hasn't happened, becuase...

My point is: DVC buyers are not stupid.

...of course they are not. But, they are human, and do things that humans do---including make decisions based in large part about how they feel.

 

[CastAStone]

IMO, you are over-thinking this. Selling timeshare is much simpler than you seem to be describing. It is an aspirational purchase, and it is sold, not bought--and both of those make a big difference in how things work.

Most guests on the tour have no idea how DVC works, or that the resale market exists. They are on vacation, having the time of their lives, and one of the Kiosk/Resort Reps (or maybe the in-room DVC TV loop) convinces them to take the tour. On that tour, the Guide explains to them that they can bottle this magical feeling of vacation and experience it for many years to come with some very affordable monthly payments.

Some of those guests buy. And, when they do they feel really good about it! After all, they just made a great investment in their family's future vacations. They do not want to know that it was a bad deal, and so they do not go looking for reasons that it was. How many people find there way there to DIS during their rescind period asking if the purchase was a good idea? Not many. Even the few that do don't always rescind, because (a) they don't really want to and (b) enough people tell them that a retail purchase is a fine idea.

This isn't unique to DVC, where the resale contracts cost real money. A Wyndham contract is worth less than ten cents on the dollar the instant the ink on the contract dries. Yet Wyndham is very very good at selling timeshares.

Over on TUG, people used to say that the Internet would bring about the end of timeshare sales. It hasn't happened, becuase...



...of course they are not. But, they are human, and do things that humans do---including make decisions based in large part about how they feel.

Yep. I want this very expensive thing, and my justification to myself is that it’s a good value. But the reality is I’m not buying it because it’s a good value, I’m buying it because I want it.

So even if I find out it’s a bad deal, I still got this thing that I want so

 

[DebbieB]

I think what Seth is proposing would be to make the new studios rent for say 50 points a night on average. So where each studio for a year is 18,250pts per year or 3.65M total new points. The you could reduce the "new" studio points by 10 points, but add 10 points to all "older" VGF rooms. I don't think that would happen though.

40 or 50 points a night is crazy, the current studios in the middle season are around 20 weeknights. Riviera and Poly are around that. I don’t see much difference for the new rooms, especially if they don’t have the Deluxe Studio amenities (2 showers, kitchenette).

 

[sethschroeder]

40 or 50 points a night is crazy, the current studios in the middle season are around 20 weeknights. Riviera and Poly are around that. I don’t see much difference for the new rooms, especially if they don’t have the Deluxe Studio amenities (2 showers, kitchenette).

Thing is they can still sell the new rooms which are this lower cost while push under the rug the fact they just bumped the nightly rate at the old building.

It seems like something they could do and it would give them extra points to sell.

 

[DVCsloth]

Hope they keep the piont chart the same like CCV and BRV! If the new building end's up being more points that means the Villas will be harder to book.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Yep. I want this very expensive thing, and my justification to myself is that it’s a good value. But the reality is I’m not buying it because it’s a good value, I’m buying it because I want it.

So even if I find out it’s a bad deal, I still got this thing that I want so

You’re exactly right! But, like me, I bet you knew before you bought that DVC is not a particularly good deal, it’s not an investment, and that you could pay for a ton of memorable, lavish vacations if you actually kept the money you’re spending. But you only go around once, and if you can afford it and it makes you happy, why not?!!
And, of course, there is a credible exit strategy, and if you look at the initial purchase price as something you can potentially recover, at least kind of, you’re getting access to some amazing hotels for the yearly maintenance fees. And to take mild irrationality one step further, I’ve also bought direct for the convenience, availability, and the blue card. Why? It makes me happy, of course.

 

[Days In the Sun]

We are VGF owners (small contract) and I would have to say I have been quite upset about this.

After pondering for a couple days, my thinking is that these rooms will have a queen murphy bed making them a studio but without a kitchenette, hence a resort villa not a deluxe villa. The kitchen facilities will be small like the Riviera Tower studios which doesn't include a sink, you need to use the bathroom one to wash dishes. So no plumbing or wall changes required and they won't have the extra shower/change area like the current vgf studios. I think the point chart will be about the same as you are gaining a bit of space but losing the extra bathing/changing area. If it wasn't for the loss of the split bath, I think I'd be ok with it depending on what the point chart looks like.

Unfortunately, I think it is going to be really hard to get rooms in the resort we bought into. I'm predicting as owners we are going to be on a waitlist at 11 months every year. I hope Disney proves me wrong.

 

[davidl81]

40 or 50 points a night is crazy, the current studios in the middle season are around 20 weeknights. Riviera and Poly are around that. I don’t see much difference for the new rooms, especially if they don’t have the Deluxe Studio amenities (2 showers, kitchenette).

I was just using 50 points as an example for this exercise. Seth's idea was that the new rooms would have a much higher point per night charge than the old rooms, but once they are all in one association they could rebalance the points thus backdooring a way into making current VGF rooms more expensive per night. I do not think legally DVC can get away with this since it would materially impact the value of the ownership of original VGF buyers, but that was his concern.

My very best guess is that the new rooms rent a few points per night higher (5-10%) than the current studios if they remain the same size as they will be "bigger" rooms. I do not see the current VGF rooms changing in cost.

 

[CastAStone]

But, like me, I bet you knew before you bought that DVC is not a particularly good deal, it’s not an investment, and that you could pay for a ton of memorable, lavish vacations if you actually kept the money you’re spending.

I still haven’t bought because the value isn’t there right now for me at the resorts I want. We almost pulled the trigger on Saratoga springs when it was sub-$90 last year, but then it became apparent that we would be moving, and I wanted the cash on hand for a better interest rate while buying a house, and in the meantime, prices went nuts.

I’m waiting and learning.

 

[davidl81]

Thing is they can still sell the new rooms which are this lower cost while push under the rug the fact they just bumped the nightly rate at the old building.

It seems like something they could do and it would give them extra points to sell.

Seth,
My guess is they cannot do this since it would actually de-value the purchase from original VGF buyers. I may be wrong, but that would be really wrong of DVC to try something like this, and I don't think they would play that game. SSR with the THV I guess is the closest thing to these new rooms. I will have to go back and see how points were adjusted for those. IIRC the THV at first were the same price as a 2BR, but then they went up in points. I would need to see if the THV actually went up, or did the 2BR go down and other rooms go up. I do not remember off the top of my head.

 

[davidl81]

You’re exactly right! But, like me, I bet you knew before you bought that DVC is not a particularly good deal, it’s not an investment, and that you could pay for a ton of memorable, lavish vacations if you actually kept the money you’re spending. But you only go around once, and if you can afford it and it makes you happy, why not?!!
And, of course, there is a credible exit strategy, and if you look at the initial purchase price as something you can potentially recover, at least kind of, you’re getting access to some amazing hotels for the yearly maintenance fees. And to take mild irrationality one step further, I’ve also bought direct for the convenience, availability, and the blue card. Why? It makes me happy, of course.

I will say out of any timeshare on earth, DVC is really the only one where buying direct even can make the smallest bit of sense. A large majority of that is the fact that resale prices are so strong that historically you never lose more than 30% +/- of your initial investment (not factoring in time value of money).