New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[dvcdisney]

(I'm not sure if this has already been brought up) Just wondering, if all DVC wanted to do is to cut down on the calls, why didn't they just put a restriction on the number of DBD calls. For example, each memberhip number can call DBD only once a year for the length of their vacation. So once you do this, whether you do it for 2 or 14 days, that is it for the entire year. This is easy for the system to keep track of. Once the member does it, they will be informed (hopefully) that they will not be able to book this way again for the rest of their UY.

This way, you will keep your DBD booking for the reservation that you feel requires this type of booking. You, as a member, have complete control of when you can use it.

What do you think?

 

[danielle782001]

Well, I know I'll be making more calls since we usually stay more than 7 nights. So I'll have to call each day to add the next night until I have my full reservation.

I know this was answered about 50 pages ago but I have lost track at this point...

If you want to book more than 7 nights can you call the date of check in and then the next day to add an 8th night or do you have to wait until the 8th day to call?

I am sorry I do not remember the answer but this thread has my brain in a twist

 

[jeankeri]

Yes, you can keep calling DBD after your initial reservation to add additional days.

 

[jdg345]

I think dues are higher for a number of reasons including flexibility, on property issues, Disney standards, use of Disney approved contractors, and likely several others. Some are good and some are bad and in some ways it may depend on your personal situation as to how you see it. To me you have to consider the cost vs the benefit of everything involved. To compare to say Marriott's Grande Vista, likely the best comparison for a timeshare in Orlando, the fees are about 50% higher for a 2 BR for a week. GV is a resort with comparable set up, size and quality (in and out of units) to DVC and is probably most like SSR. Dues for a 2 BR are right around $825 and a 3 BR just over $1100 with both being lockoff's. A full week for comparison would be a little over 300 points on average (depending on the exact resort) but lets use 300 to make it easy. So around $1500 a year for a week. If you compare to other times or shorter stays it's still average out to around the $1500 per week total for the membership but might vary somewhat per person due to the usage patterns (S-F). Ultimately one is paying a sizable cost to stay on property which is a value each members needs to decide for themselves. From a flexibility standpoint one could get full weeks at other timeshares and only use part of the time and still come out far ahead in most instances. The Marriott option would also give you a ton of other options in usage and trading than does DVC. You'd have the II membership if you chose and also a potential lockoff fee. There are also minor change/cancellation fees. There are actually other comparisons that are more directly comparable to DVC from a system standpoint. Club Intrawest or Bluegreen come to mind, esp BG, but the resorts are not as comparable. Anyway, just for info and perspective. Owning DVC and others I see the value of both used correctly and the folly of both used incorrectly.

Thank you!

 

[jdg345]

My understanding is we are talking two different things. I believe (hope) I was clear that I was talking memberships. My understanding is this number is based on the individual names listed, no distinct membership. The number should be out next week for the Dec, 2007 audit.

Ahhh ... so Disney Marketing is counting a contract with (3) Associates and (1) Primary owner as essentially (4) Members?

So your count on memberships (unique master contracts) versus named 'members' on the account?

 

[danielle782001]

Yes, you can keep calling DBD after your initial reservation to add additional days.

Thanks

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Most folks who are considering buying DVC know nothing about how the booking process "used" to work. Just as those of us who purchased after the OKW free theme park passes program expired, one can't miss what one never had.

And that's a true statement - you may not miss it, but you may not want what they currently have - change or no change. I for one never had an interest in the sort of timeshare that required or even gave preference to 7 day stays and I wouldn't have bought DVC if that was the way they were set up. They only got my dollars b/c they were flexible and in essence allowed us to travel the way we had thru CRO - but with our committment to them we were going to have lower priced accommodations.

It really wouldn't have mattered to me how it used to be - just how it was and that is all the matters to me now. ie - if I have any difficulties that seem related to this change I will be selling. And I will not be recommending the DVC timeshare to anyone - whereas I had been mentioning it to friends and how different is was due to the flexibility. And the feedback I received when I did mention that one point was always positive.

 

[Dean]

Some of the PP's would suggest that those of us that bought into the flexibility and specifically wanted to stay away from traditional timeshares are in the minority of DVC owners. I would really like to see a survey go out on this ... I would think most bought because it was Disney and because it was Flexible. If you take either of those things away, it becomes ... well ... 'meh'. I least, for me.

I posted early in this thread that I felt most people bought DVC because it was Disney which I believe would be hard to dispute since not only do most members not own other timeshares, most hardly know others exist.

I hope everyone is sending an email to the satisfaction team to voice their complaints.
It is also important to say that you believe if the people in favor knew of all the ramifications of this system, they may not be in favor of it.
I know that doesn't hold true for everyone, but I do believe it does for most.

Send in those emails!!

MG

Actually anyone and everyone who has an opinion should send it in so they at least have reasonably accurate data from all sides.

I will admit that I am not widely versed in the timeshare industry. I can however, say, with confidence, that at least since last October, a friend was still booking her 1 or 2 week vacations with her timeshare. I don't recall the timeshare company, but she stayed at the Sheraton Vistana on International Drive using her timeshare. She had told me that she had wished her timeshare was similar to mine so that she would be able to stay for 10 days as she had intended. Instead she had to move to another location for the remaining days of her vacation. Now I know she is very active in her reservation policy and would have undoubtly tried to book for the 10 days.

However, she had purchased this a LONG time ago and her yearly maintenance is only a fraction of what I pay. Not that I'm comparing the two, obviously apples to oranges. And I am fine paying the higher price for, what I perceive to be, this flexibility.

I am not implying that they are all like this. I know there are those using points now which was not the case a few years ago. I guess my point is that DVC was a great choice for us and the main reason for that is its flexibility. And if there are others who do the same now, then that's great. I will look into it for future reference. But, currently, I know 6 timeshare owners and none of of them have the same option as DVC.

If we were told that they will someday become more strict with when/where/how long we book, then I could honestly say, we would NOT have purchased into the membership. It was VERY important for us to be able to have this choice.

So, I am not planning on selling my membership unless DVC ceases to be THE DVC we purchased.

They are all flexible or inflexible in their own way. If you look at DVC from an exchange standpoint (II), it's actually less flexible than any other II timeshare I can think of. Bluegreen has 50 resort, Wyndham must have more than double that many, RCI points has over 500 and on and on; all work on points and all can have a shorter stay as short as 2-3 days. Marriott is a floating week system but for full weeks for the most part though when it comes to exchanging, it's hard to beat the right Marriott. But as I said above, one can often book a full week and only use part of it and come out far ahead of DVC from a cost or exchange standpoint in most cases. DVC is great if you use it right, don't do long weekends, stay at DVC properties and esp if you actually use the flexibility by staying different times of the year, different unit sizes, none 7 days stay, etc. But to imply that DVC is flexible and that nothing else is would simply be wrong. I'd have to say that currently Bluegreen is far more flexible than DVC from a usage standpoint in that there is no home resort priority, you can reserve as little as 1 day (2 min for most resorts), cancel up to 10 days out without penalty if your preferred and have automatic banking for one year. There are some negatives to BG in comparison but overall the main negs are it's not on property at WDW and as a group, their resorts are not on par with DVC though some are.

 

[Dean]

Ahhh ... so Disney Marketing is counting a contract with (3) Associates and (1) Primary owner as essentially (4) Members?

So your count on memberships (unique master contracts) versus named 'members' on the account?

That would be my guess since the legal audit ending Dec, 2007 listed just over 110K members. Quote from the II exchange audit.

Number of fully paid members as of December 31, 2006 110,107

2007 should be available this week.

 

[jarestel]

And that's a true statement - you may not miss it, but you may not want what they currently have - change or no change. I for one never had an interest in the sort of timeshare that required or even gave preference to 7 day stays and I wouldn't have bought DVC if that was the way they were set up. They only got my dollars b/c they were flexible and in essence allowed us to travel the way we had thru CRO - but with our committment to them we were going to have lower priced accommodations.

It really wouldn't have mattered to me how it used to be - just how it was and that is all the matters to me now. ie - if I have any difficulties that seem related to this change I will be selling. And I will not be recommending the DVC timeshare to anyone - whereas I had been mentioning it to friends and how different is was due to the flexibility. And the feedback I received when I did mention that one point was always positive.

I've always enjoyed DVC but I've never actually recommended it to anybody since IMO it's a very expensive option that only makes sense for people who want to vacation at WDW most years and don't mind spending the extra $$$ to do this. Not a good fit for most of the people I know.

I really think it's a bit of a stretch to leap from the changes to the booking policy to a mandatory 7-day stay. Not that it couldn't happen at some point, but it's just not very likely at this point in time. Many things could happen, but most likely won't. I would urge a bit of patience to see what these changes actually amount to in practical terms before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

With or without these changes, DVC salespeople will still tout the flexibilty of the system. And as I said, most potential buyers won't ever know things were ever any different.

 

[Chuck S]

Ahhh ... so Disney Marketing is counting a contract with (3) Associates and (1) Primary owner as essentially (4) Members?

So your count on memberships (unique master contracts) versus named 'members' on the account?

I don't think they count associates, but anyone actually listed on the deed itself is a member. Associates are not on the deed. Some deeds may have several owners/members. Most have 2, but many have 3 or more.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

If you want to book more than 7 nights can you call the date of check in and then the next day to add an 8th night or do you have to wait until the 8th day to call? . . .

For a stay of 14 days or less, you can almost always book it in 1 or 2 calls. For a stay Days 1 -12, you can call 11 months from Day 5 and book all 12 nights (Day 5 = 12-7). Perfect for units or times that are not high demand.

For units or times that are higher demand, you can call on Day 1, book Days 1-7 and then call again on Day 5, 6 or 7 and book Days 8-12. If you get your reservaiton on Day 1, then you are guaranteed as many more nights as you have enough points for as long as you book before Day 8. On Day 8, "your room" can be booked by anyone calling that day, so don't wait that long to extend your stay.

For really high demand units or times, you may need to "walk" your reservation forward from a low demand time and this may require more phone calls.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[maminnie]

Dean:

I will agree with you regarding the lack of flexibility with DVC as far as exchanges but in the sales presentation presented to my husband and me our guides words were something like: "Do not purchase DVC with the idea that you will be able to exchange it for prime property during a busy/peak vacation week." We fully were made aware of this when we bought and realized that until we were not tied to school vacations, the liklihood of getting an exchange at a sought after property in the Caribbean, Hawaii, Marco Island, a ski resort, etc. during a busy school vacation week were slim to none.

Disney DID NOT make us aware that at a future date and time we would also have difficulty getting our home resort properties simply because someone might check-in a few days ahead of us during a busy/prime vacation week. I bought fully understanding how the reservation system worked and how I would HAVE TO reserve busy vacation periods. The new system/policy may now prevent me from getting reservations as I have in the past.

How will we all handle multiple contracts/resorts? I did not hesitate to buy an add on through DVC because I believed I could handle making reservations at multiple resorts, wait listing for either the first part or the second part of the week and worst case possibly having to move if the waitlist did not come through. Now I may not even get a reservation for the second part of our week because of all of the people with earlier check-in dates, and I certainly may have less luck in the waitlist coming through (so we don't have to move) as those checking in before us will have been on that waitlist a lot sooner. Maybe they should at the very least consider letting people combine their contracts when making a check-in +7 day reservation. Still not ideal but at least a bit better.

Yes Disney can do what they want at the expense of certain members and yes I can sell my timeshare and move on. But what Disney may want to keep in mind is that many of its members are people spending thousands of additional dollars on park tickets, dining plans, souvenirs, $7.50 pina coladas by the pool, breakfasts with Cinderella, $12.00 glasses of wine in Epcot, etc. My last incidental bill looked like a trip to a Caribbean resort!! I do realize that I am nothing to Disney but I bought my two contracts in good faith and will feel very cheated by them if I no longer am able to get the reservations I have been able to get for years simply by doing what they advised me I would have to and should do.

I personally can't even believe it has come to this, and I truly am hoping that I am totally wrong. When will the first test come; Hilton Head reservations for July, Thanksgiving, who knows? I guess we will have to wait and see unless DVC gets enough irrate members who make them feel that the new system/policy does actually give advantages to members over others simply because of a check-in date and that the new system/policy does not adhere to the 11/7 month reservation terms for which we all signed that DVC contract.

We love our Disney timeshare and have had many wonderful stays. I for one think that Disney and DVC does a very good job for the most part. I do hope that this can be resolved so that I don't have to consider sellling it. As my husband has already said as soon as we start hearing about members having difficulty getting reservations for busy/prime travel periods because of the new policy, it will be sold. I can't disagree with him.



maminnie

 

[dvcdisney]

DVC is great if you use it right, don't do long weekends, stay at DVC properties and esp if you actually use the flexibility by staying different times of the year, different unit sizes, none 7 days stay, etc. But to imply that DVC is flexible and that nothing else is would simply be wrong.

I agree. I suppose I should have been more specific. If DVC were to have fixed weeks, we would not have chosen to purchase into the membership, whether it was Disney or not. Hence flexibility is one of the major components to our decision.

And, in the same sense, even if other timeshare companies are more or less flexible, if it's not Disney/Disney Resort, then we would also not have chosen to purchase. Hence, Disney is also a major component.

So basically, for me to have purchase into the DVC membership, it would have to have both - flexibility and the Disney Resorts.

I know DVC offer exchanges, but I do believe that none is worth the points. And the few times we stayed at other resorts in different locations, we chose to pay for the rooms and not use our points, because we know that the points are not worth using elsewhere. We only use it for the specific DVC Resorts. The points required for other Disney Resorts are absurd.

Just to reiterate, both Flexibility and the fact that it's in Disney is very important. But we are not discussing whether it will remain at Disney, we are discussing the importance of flexibility. And in that sense, if the flexibility is removed, the other component (being Disney) would not be enough for me to keep the membership. I enjoy planning my vacation, but if it's going to be frustrating, it is no longer enjoyable and I wouldn't want to do it. I find that the AP's discounts are great and may be worth the extra money to save me the aggravation. I would still be staying onsite and that's important to me.

However, I do not forsee DVC going towards this. I think that this new policy is something that they felt they needed to change as a response to members' complaints. I do think that they didn't think it would get this much attention. But, as some have said, maybe they really didn't think it through. Hopefully, they will introduce guideline and restrictions that would allow many to work with it.

 

[bookwormde]

I am one who would never buy a standard timeshare. I only looked a DVC because it was linked to WDW. If I had known that giving preference to full week stays was in the future I would not have bought.

I was going to buy a couple of small add ons in other resorts. That would be ridiculous to do now for how I had hoped to travel.

There are 4 reasons why most timeshares are worth almost nothing on the resale market.

1 Can rent a week for the same as the maintenance fees
2 Serious lack of flex ability even with floating weeks
3 No buyback support for resale contracts
4 You may have to pay part of closing/sales/transfer expenses just to get rid of it

These are the reasons I would never buy one even for $1 as many go on Ebay for.

bookwormde

 

[jarestel]

Disney DID NOT make us aware that at a future date and time we would also have difficulty getting our home resort properties simply because someone might check-in a few days ahead of us during that prime week because they now needed a system/policy that would fill rooms on weekends, minimize short stays, cut back on Member Services cost, allow them to have an on-line reservation system, etc. I bought fully understanding how the reservation system worked and how I would HAVE TO reserve busy vacation periods. The new system/policy may now prevent me from getting reservations as I have in the past.

Whether your guide mentioned it or not, if you read your paperwork you would know that the ability to make reservations is always based on availability. If you assumed that DVC would never change, that was your bad. However, reservations are still based on availability. To somehow blame DVC because you made assumptions in perpetuity that just weren't accurate seems like trying to shift the blame for not understanding what you were buying from yourself to DVC.

 

[CarolMN]

.......(snip).....Maybe DVC should follow the lead of the airlines and tack on fees for calling MS. With each X number of points, you get 4 free calls to MS and after that it will cost you $Y per call, please have your credit card ready.

-- Suzanne

This, plus all the other suggested "tweaks" to the new method of booking are solid evidence that there is something wrong with the new method on its face. It is not viable on its own. It cannot last as is unless other restrictions & limitations are put in place. Without the additional rules, it has the real potential to increase the amount of work MS must do (over the old system).

The old method is viable on its own. In my opinion, DVC could have eliminated most of the unnecessary DBD calling with education. - i.e., publish the specific times of the year and specific unit types for which DBD is needed, and train MS to advise callers when they are calling unnecessarily.

I would support (albeit reluctantly) the new method for the 7 month window only. I'm quite sure the call and booking data would show that most day by day calls are at the 7 month window and the vast majority of reservation "holes" occur with bookings made 7 months or less from arrival.

 

[jarestel]

This, plus all the other suggested "tweaks" to the new method of booking are solid evidence that there is something wrong with the new method on its face. It is not viable on its own. It cannot last as is unless other restrictions & limitations are put in place. Without the additional rules, it has the real potential to increase the amount of work MS must do (over the old system).

The simplest change might have been simply to limit reservation calls to once per week.

 

[maminnie]

jarestel:

When I bought I clearly understood and was advised on how I would have to book reservations day by day for busy periods. I also clearly understood that members do not have access to inventory prior to 11/7 months. Under the new system members now do have access to inventory prior to 11/7 months over other members and that is the issue and problem for certain members who travel during busy travel periods.

 

[Inkmahm]

I agree. I suppose I should have been more specific. If DVC were to have fixed weeks, we would not have chosen to purchase into the membership, whether it was Disney or not. Hence flexibility is one of the major components to our decision.

And, in the same sense, even if other timeshare companies are more or less flexible, if it's not Disney/Disney Resort, then we would also not have chosen to purchase. Hence, Disney is also a major component.

So basically, for me to have purchase into the DVC membership, it would have to have both - flexibility and the Disney Resorts.

I know DVC offer exchanges, but I do believe that none is worth the points. And the few times we stayed at other resorts in different locations, we chose to pay for the rooms and not use our points, because we know that the points are not worth using elsewhere. We only use it for the specific DVC Resorts. The points required for other Disney Resorts are absurd.

Just to reiterate, both Flexibility and the fact that it's in Disney is very important. But we are not discussing whether it will remain at Disney, we are discussing the importance of flexibility. And in that sense, if the flexibility is removed, the other component (being Disney) would not be enough for me to keep the membership. I enjoy planning my vacation, but if it's going to be frustrating, it is no longer enjoyable and I wouldn't want to do it. I find that the AP's discounts are great and may be worth the extra money to save me the aggravation. I would still be staying onsite and that's important to me.

I agree with all of this. Well said.