New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[toyboy]

I booked my Dec 2008 trip at VWL using DBD. Calling every morning at 9am in early January, I got busy signal after busy signal, or if I was lucky to get through, the wait time on hold was horrendous.

If I add-up all the time I spent that week on hold, it's pretty ridiculous. No vacation club should require you to spend so much time on hold. A lot of that call volume were other DBD bookers calling back each morning.

The new system will decrease the amount of time I'll have to spend on hold listening to Disney song after Disney song.

DVC Mike, if you are so confident that DBD isn't necessary, why did you resort to it for your December trip rather than make one call at the end date of your trip? I too called DBD for Dec. 7 - 12 at BCV because I was nervous about not getting what I wanted. For whatever reason, December this year seems to be overly booked (as evidenced by the ongoing long waitlist for the first two weeks). I did ask on the day I made the 12th reservation and was told by MS that I would not have been able to get my whole reservation as two of the days were booked solid (I believe the 7th and 8th).

I'm actually neutral in this debate, I see the positives and negatives on both sides and don't think either system will work for 100% of the folks. I'm willing to give the new system a shot, but will be sorely dissappointed next year if I can't book a reservation right at 9:00am. Hopefully it will work as intended, but based on the high volume during this season I am concerned for next year. I just wish both sides would agree to disagree at this point and stop the useless bickering back and forth - I keep coming back to this thread to see if I can read anything useful on the new policy and I keep reading the same tired old arguements for or against it (thinking after 120 pages and thousands of posts it will somehow change someone's mind).

 

[BWV Dreamin]

My opportunity to do so is compromised by someone who is allowed to book earlier than me just by virture of their arrival date. That could not happen under the old DBD booking based on departure date but it does happen now. I could have absolutely ZERO opportunity to book a room if they have all been booked before I am allowed to call for my reservation. That could not happen under the old DBD booking.

And so this scenario is the same for the people the day before you, the day before them, etc. Sounds like "equal opportunity" to me. Everyone shares your same opportunities at the same times of the year.

 

[Dean]

You have nothing to base this statement on. Until you have credable data, lets keep these statements as "opinion".

Actually I think it will be the other way, more people will get what they want on the first call than previously but likely not everyone.

not everone can afford this as you are an inteligent man i am suprised by your answer, by the way what industry standards are we talking about did'nt everone say Disney is not like other time shares so how can you compare.

But again this is a personal issue, while it may be in DVC's best interest to keep as many people involved as possible, it is not DVC's responsibility to put affordability at the top of their list. DVC is simply a luxury item, using affordability and DVC in the same sentence is very difficult. I know there are those that like to bury their head in the sand and think DVC is so different that it cannot be compared to other timeshares in any way. That is laughable, all timeshares or timeshare systems are different one to another but there is information to look at, compare, use. In some cases it may be that a given approach doesn't work so lets do it differently, in others it may be taking the things that do work and using or even improving them. If you want to ignore other timeshares as 100% irrelevant, please do so and ignore my posts when I reference them in some way or if you have other information about the same issue, please share it. When DVC was in the planning phases, they did look extensively at other timeshare systems esp Club Intrawest it appears, I'm sure they still do and I believe they're a member of ARDA.

 

[zulaya]

Well, I guess I must be the oddball of the entire membership. I've called for early December several times in January. I've never had an hour to 2 hour wait. And I did call at 9am. Maybe I was just lucky with my speedy dialing finger ~ I don't even have speed-dial on my primary phone.

The one time I did book DBD for two 2BR with 2Q at BCV in early December, I didn't encounter a wait of any longer than 15 minutes. And that was at 9am.

I'm not going to re-read this thread to double check...Could some of these longer wait times be due to the MS Advisor not knowing how to navigate their reservation system quick enough? I know most of the advisors I've gotten have been pretty on the ball, but I do recall one who seemed a little slower than others, but perhaps that was a new CM still learning the system.

Or are members not sure of what they want when they call and that takes up the Advisors' time? I mean, I have my member number memorized and in the past, I've said who I am, what date I am calling for, what unit size and at what resort...bing bang boom.

Am I non-average in that I don't necessarily need "help" from the Advisor other than for them to make the reservation that I currently don't have the capability to do online myself? I would think that makes my call shorter than average where as a member who is unsure of what they want or they have to dig out their membership card, etc may take more time than average. Possible?

Or is it truly that there are so many people calling that even if they have all their ducks in a row to make it a quick conversation with the Advisor, that there are still too many people calling for any single day?

 

[Dean]

I just wish both sides would agree to disagree at this point and stop the useless bickering back and forth

Why, it's too much fun.

 

[toyboy]

As many have stated before, I also think this new policy could be greatly enhanced if new rules were put in place to "discourage" the practice of walking. I think most of the apprehension is based on the fact that many people (myself included) think that the new policy may drive some people to tie up days they don't intend to use just to walk to their desired reservation. If people use the new system to just book the times they need I think it has a legitimate shot of working out for all, with the exception of Xmas and New Years which I agree could be benefited by a lottery (this seems to be the only suggestion made which is fair to ALL those who want those extremely high demand times).

 

[DVC Mike]

DVC Mike, if you are so confident that DBD isn't necessary, why did you resort to it for your December trip rather than make one call at the end date of your trip? I too called DBD for Dec. 7 - 12 at BCV because I was nervous about not getting what I wanted. For whatever reason, December this year seems to be overly booked (as evidenced by the ongoing long waitlist for the first two weeks). I did ask on the day I made the 12th reservation and was told by MS that I would not have been able to get my whole reservation as two of the days were booked solid (I believe the 7th and 8th).

VWL in December is a popular reservation, and since DBD booking was available under the old system, and since there were other members out there taking advantage of DBD booking, I did as well. The phone lines were busy and the MS wait time was very long.

With the new system, I won't have to book DBD anymore.

I'm actually neutral in this debate, I see the positives and negatives on both sides and don't think either system will work for 100% of the folks. I'm willing to give the new system a shot, but will be sorely dissappointed next year if I can't book a reservation right at 9:00am. Hopefully it will work as intended, but based on the high volume during this season I am concerned for next year. I just wish both sides would agree to disagree at this point and stop the useless bickering back and forth - I keep coming back to this thread to see if I can read anything useful on the new policy and I keep reading the same tired old arguements for or against it (thinking after 120 pages and thousands of posts it will somehow change someone's mind).

All the arguments have been laid out, yet the conversation goes on. This is a discussion forum and if folks want to keep discussing it, so be it.

 

[jarestel]

I just wish both sides would agree to disagree at this point and stop the useless bickering back and forth - I keep coming back to this thread to see if I can read anything useful on the new policy and I keep reading the same tired old arguements for or against it (thinking after 120 pages and thousands of posts it will somehow change someone's mind).

Respectfully, maybe it's time to stop coming back if this is bothering you.

 

[bookwormde]

Kathi OD

It is clear that there is an inequity between full week and shorter stay members, and we know that some high demand reservation are fully sold within 1 or 2 days. So if is certainly not “speculation” that the system will be inequitable for some members. The real debate is the extent of the impact of this inequity.

My point is if there are changes that can be made to make it statistically less likely for the inequities to have real world negative impacts, waiting for them to happen flies in the face of the pupose of statistical analysis and planning.

I guess I am a fix it before it happens person.


bookwormde

 

[DVC Mike]

As many have stated before, I also think this new policy could be greatly enhanced if new rules were put in place to "discourage" the practice of walking. I think most of the apprehension is based on the fact that many people (myself included) think that the new policy may drive some people to tie up days they don't intend to use just to walk to their desired reservation. If people use the new system to just book the times they need I think it has a legitimate shot of working out for all, with the exception of Xmas and New Years which I agree could be benefited by a lottery (this seems to be the only suggestion made which is fair to ALL those who want those extremely high demand times).

DVC did state:

Disney Vacation Club is committed to ensuring that rules and procedures are fair and balanced for the entire Membership. Therefore, as with all procedures, our Cast Members are closely monitoring reservation activity to ensure there is not potential misuse, and will modify the rules if needed to protect the overall Member experience.

 

[maminnie]

While some of our members think that Disney did this to make all our lives better and easier, do any of you think that the Disney powers at be may have sat around a board room table actually discussing how to fill rooms on weekends, minimize short stays, minimize Sunday through Thursday stays, encourage current members to buy add-ons at home resorts, encourage prospective members to buy more points, decrease the prices in the resale market due to an influx of resales of existing contracts and hence the ROFR price for existing resorts, etc. The results of lower administration costs due to fewer calls may only have been a very, very small piece of the desired benefit to Disney. As my husband said "is Disney going to pass all those savings on to us via lower member dues."

I know some members on this board advocate and believe that some of the above is possibly why Disney did do it and believe it was ok. If any or all of the above is part of the reason why DVC created the new reservation policy it is not too fair to all the members who bought in good faith and bought based on flexibility and an equal opportunity 11/7 month reservation system. Isn't changing the rules in a way that puts one at a disadvantage after one purchases and prevents one from achieving what they have been able to do before also a form of "bait and switch" in the sales world? Oh I forgot the contract reads Disney can do what they want when they want.

Dean:

We actually agree on something. As you said "the system should not be in the business of deciding who is a deserving member". It has determined by the nature of the system that the person who arrives before another is now the deserving member by allowing that member to reserve before the 11/7 month booking window. Other members mid-week reservations or Sunday to Thursday reservations no longer matter to those more deserving members or to DVC as long as someone else wins and is happy.

maminnie

 

[jarestel]

Well, I guess I must be the oddball of the entire membership. I've called for early December several times in January. I've never had an hour to 2 hour wait. And I did call at 9am. Maybe I was just lucky with my speedy dialing finger ~ I don't even have speed-dial on my primary phone.

Whenever someone posts that they waited for 'x' amount of time for a bus or for 'y' amount of time to check into a room, there are always responders who feel inclined to say they have never experienced that in 'z' number of trips. That's all well and good, but it doesn't mitigate the original circumstance for the one who did experience the problems. Unless your point is to cast doubt on the veracity of those who have had experiences different from yours, it really is irrelevant whether you personally have experienced delays, since others obviously have.

 

[Inkmahm]

And so this scenario is the same for the people the day before you, the day before them, etc. Sounds like "equal opportunity" to me. Everyone shares your same opportunities at the same times of the year.

Everyone gets screwed equally? I don't think so.

 

[pyrxtc]

I just wonder how many people will "not" be booking concierge AKV's for 1 night to do the safari since it will most likely be completely booked by the time they can call for that 1 night and it can hinder their chance on getting the rest of the nights they needed in order to complete their vacation. I'm sure most of them did not buy enough points to cover their entire vacation in concierge if they only thought about using it for 1 night every couple of vacations.

I know I bought enough to cover a week in concierge 2 bed every year for the time I want to go or it can take me longer than a week in a regular Savannah view room.

 

[DVC Mike]

While some of our members think that Disney did this to make all our lives better and easier, do any of you think that the Disney powers at be may have sat around a board room table actually discussing how to fill rooms on weekends, minimize short stays, minimize Sunday through Thursday stays, encourage current members to buy add-ons at home resorts, encourage prospective members to buy more points, decrease the prices in the resale market due to an influx of resales of existing contracts and hence the ROFR price for existing resorts, etc. The results of lower administration costs due to fewer calls may only have been a very, very small piece of the desired benefit to Disney. As my husband said "is Disney going to pass all those savings on to us via lower member dues."

Yes, it's a big DVC conspiracy! Really, you can subscribe to the theory that DVC had alterior motives in making this change. However, there simply isn't any proof to such a conspiracy theory.

I know some key members on this board advocate and believe that all or some of above is quite possibly why Disney did do it. Not too fair to all the members who bought in good faith and bought based on flexibility and a fair reservation system. Isn't changing the rules in a way that puts one at a disadvantage after one purchases also a form of "bait and switch" in the sales world? Oh I forgot the contract reads Disney can do what they want when they want.

There isn't any "bait and switch" here at all. You were never promised that the reservation system would be unchanged throughout the life of your DVC contract, so a change is not a bait and switch.

I don't think it's particularly fair of DVC members to make such claims about DVC's apparent lack of good faith without any hard evidence.

 

[toyboy]

Respectfully, maybe it's time to stop coming back if this is bothering you.

I agree.

I only have time to come and look once a day and I'm discouraged to have to read through over 10 pages of the same arguements. The first couple of days on this thread were great because they were informative with lots of feedback from folks who talked with MS about the change. Lately, the thread has turned from having a lot of useful information to having a smaller group of people who are on one side or the other trying to convince everyone else that their point is the correct one. My only point was that I think everyone's points are valid and I don't see the value in trying to convince the other side that you are correct when it is falling on deaf ears. I'll go back to my happy place now...

 

[jarestel]

I agree.

I only have time to come and look once a day and I'm discouraged to have to read through over 10 pages of the same arguements. The first couple of days on this thread were great because they were informative with lots of feedback from folks who talked with MS about the change. Lately, the thread has turned from having a lot of useful information to having a smaller group of people who are on one side or the other trying to convince everyone else that their point is the correct one. My only point was that I think everyone's points are valid and I don't see the value in trying to convince the other side that you are correct when it is falling on deaf ears. I'll go back to my happy place now...

I agree that minds are not likely to be changed. But it is a good place to vent, pro or con.

 

[maminnie]

DVC Mike:

I made no such claims about Disney's good faith. In everything that I wrote I used the words "MAY and IF".

It is only something for people to consider when deciding what may be some of the reasons for this policy change and it may not be as simple as trying to make us all happy DVC owners and to reduce calls to member services.

maminnie

 

[jdg345]

You have nothing to base this statement on. Until you have credable data, lets keep these statements as "opinion".

Actually, mathematically and statistically, I am correct. My statement stands:

The point was simply that the chances of you getting some of your 7 day stay DBD are going to be higher than you getting all 7 days under the new system.

Let's try it another way. You have two different options to win a $100 cash prize:

Option-1: You get 10 GUARANTEED chances per day, for 7 days. 70 chances total.
Option-2: You get one chance, and there are up to 10 chances on that day -- it could be less, and as little as 0. 0-10 chances total.

For your $10 entry fee, which option would you choose?

I'm going with the first one.

 

[jdg345]

Just about the whole month of December and January. Hold times were up to 2 hours if you could wait that long. Most hung up and tried another time. There were terrible wait times from 9 am on all day long.

Really? I never really had any major hold times ... perhaps I called at the right part of the day in January. Hold times were, at worst, 10-15 minutes.

I guess someone that is willing to hold for (2) hours wants it pretty bad; and imo, they should have the best shot at it if they're willing to go through that. I liken it to those that camp out overnight to get concert tickets -- more power to them if they want to go through all of that to be first in line.

I wonder how they'd feel if they camped out overnight to be first in line, and then found out that the 10 people behind him/her were going to be allowed to buy tickets first because they were going to the earlier show. So now instead of getting a shot to compete for those floor seats, they have to wait for 10 other people to complete their transactions before having a shot. Meanwhile, other outlets have less people for the early show and so by the time this camper has a shot, inventory is less than it would have been had he been able to buy tickets right away.