New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[jarestel]

Tjkrax:

I think that's tjkraz, maminnie!

 

[jdg345]

I am curious, since there is a body of opinion that DBD was not needed except in very rare situations, for those who book 7+ day stays what is the logic of bothering with DBD extensions. If it was not needed before, why do it now? Or will you not bother and just finish your reservation on the 11-month window for your last day


bookwormde

To take this a little differently, why not just book at your departure minus 7 ? That way you can book the whole thing in one call.

 

[jdg345]

This is the way it works now. Sponsors often get first crack, then Fan clubs, then promotions (radios stations) then when sales open it's the internet sales that happen almost instantaneously.

See? Online Booking is where we need to be then!

 

[Dean]

I maintain that all or nothing is less flexible and more restrictive than the ability to pick up partial stays. It allows a choice to the member. If they want to move and deal with it, it's up to them. Or they can release the reservation and give it to someone else.

I don't necessarily disagree, I simply say it's OK. Both sides have a choice, the choice may be different but it's still a choice. If it takes starting earlier, you start earlier, if it takes more points, you buy more points.

Yes, but member's desires for those reservations are not all equal.

Then why were they calling. Surely you're not saying one member should get it simply because they want it more or are restricted on when they can travel. I doubt anyone who casually wanted a reservation would go to the extremes some are concerned about.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. That said, I think the fact that some suggest that further changes are going to be required is proof in itself that this new policy cannot stand on its own whereas DBD could. They should have just left well enough alone at that point. IMO.

I think the current policy as it stands is far better than the old EVEN if all the concerns expressed play out. But I think there are changes that could enhance the stated goals further but it is a case of careful what you wish for. IMO, it's hard to argue the old system was not broken but it may only be 50 or 60% fixed, time will tell. My guess is it will happen exactly like the DBD where no one was doing it then it got discussed on line and more and more started to do so. Besides it's SSR fault, LOL.

 

[jdg345]

Just imagine how much a 7 day AKL Concierge stay is going to go for during the Holidays?

Denise in MI

I know it! I'm going to buy that new house on Palm Island in Dubai with my profits!

 

[jdg345]

They would complain because of the inconvenience to them in having to make the ressie by calling in at exactly 9AM for as many days as they want.

Well, they could have called based on departure date then. If they felt they risked their vacation by doing so, why would they complain?

Mind you, I'm not saying that people would not complain, I'm just saying that it would be illogical to do so. Again, people complain about everything! You can give people Free Ice Cream and people would complain that even though they have 38 different flavors, none of them are Rocky Road!

 

[Dean]

See? Online Booking is where we need to be then!

Would you be happy if they started at MN. But wouldn't you have some complaining because not everyone had a computer and everything was gone when the phones opened or was computer literate? actually a more valid argument than most on this thread I'd think. Marriott does this but holds the inventory making it available at the same time the phones open up. Still one can reserve quicker by internet than by phone.

I've alluded to it a couple of times in this thread but Bluegreen just increased their benefits for members who own a LOT of points while decreasing benefits for a number of others. It sure makes this change pale in comparison.

 

[jdg345]

And it appears DVC members more than most. My understanding was that those that called DBD and got their reservations tended to complain because they had to do it that way and they didn't feel they should. Those that feel they need to protect certain groups should realize that many of those groups are the exact ones that couldn't call DBD. Not that I'm saying they didn't have the option but that is reality that they couldn't. IMO that was OK as is a change that would actually favor them as I think this change will in the long run.

First, I asked you to make a decision and offer a specific thought on what you would have done to fix the problems laid out. You chose not to and waned to offer it for a vote. OK, lets take it a step further. Do you think you or I could design a vote that would get the exact results we wanted and still appear to be unbiased? How would you have voted if you'd have been presented with this issue vs an increase of $1 a point? How do you think the membership would have voted? I now you'll come back and say that's absurd, we're not talking that much money but in reality is FAR closer to that than $0.0X a point. I'd say if all DBD type bookings were stopped we'd be talking a 30-40% or more savings on the cost of MS. If we encourage longer bookings and increase the average length of stay by simply 1/4 to 1/2 day each add another 10-20% savings or more on reduced resort specific costs such as housekeeping, bell services, valet, front desk. I know some of these are currently outsourced but there is an inherent cost to each. And I realize that every benefit has a cost and the system must decide WHERE to draw the line. When do you pay for something for all that not everyone uses such as the pool, internet, cable, concierge, etc; the system must decide and it appears they have done so in this case.

Very good points ... where does it end? Would the majority of DVC members 'vote' for a more restrictive solution if it meant lower dues? In the end, it's all very hard to quantify. You suggest an increase of $1/pt, I suggested much lower. Without knowing what that number is, it's tough to speculate.

In the end, I still maintain that putting the resources into online booking would reduce the calls to MS and lower overall costs. DVC has already made changes to reduce costs like changing Banking, T&T Service, outsourcing some amenities, etc. Even the rash of similar menus can be seen as an ends to cost reduction.

If the 'System' is going to make an arbitrary decision without consulting their membership, then they risk alienating that same membership. That's why I brought up the vote. If you vote and lose, it's one thing. If you aren't allowed to vote and are essentially told most people wanted it, it just doesn't leave a warm fuzzy feeling -- how do they know most wanted it if they didn't allow people to vote? Maybe that's just me though.

 

[jdg345]

I don't necessarily disagree, I simply say it's OK. Both sides have a choice, the choice may be different but it's still a choice. If it takes starting earlier, you start earlier, if it takes more points, you buy more points.

Understood.

Then why were they calling. Surely you're not saying one member should get it simply because they want it more or are restricted on when they can travel. I doubt anyone who casually wanted a reservation would go to the extremes some are concerned about.

Sorry, to be clearer here, they would call ... but if they were stuck with having to move, some might not find that inconvenience to be worth the view/category and release the days and book somewhere else. And, I agree, anyone who just wants a casual reservation is going to book whatever is available -- and likely not even at 11 months.

I think the current policy as it stands is far better than the old EVEN if all the concerns expressed play out. But I think there are changes that could enhance the stated goals further but it is a case of careful what you wish for. IMO, it's hard to argue the old system was not broken but it may only be 50 or 60% fixed, time will tell. My guess is it will happen exactly like the DBD where no one was doing it then it got discussed on line and more and more started to do so. Besides it's SSR fault, LOL.

AKV is open now, isn't it all AKV's fault?

 

[jdg345]

Would you be happy if they started at MN. But wouldn't you have some complaining because not everyone had a computer and everything was gone when the phones opened or was computer literate? actually a more valid argument than most on this thread I'd think. Marriott does this but holds the inventory making it available at the same time the phones open up. Still one can reserve quicker by internet than by phone.

I think they'd likely release inventory based on when the phones opened, to keep things 'fair' ... but, that's just my speculation. I wouldn't be happy if they started at MN, as that would hurt those without the ability to book online. That said, I would think that number is *very* small. I would think most DVC owners have a computer and/or internet access at home. I mean, didn't they just make Internet Access Free due to overwhelming member request?

I've alluded to it a couple of times in this thread but Bluegreen just increased their benefits for members who own a LOT of points while decreasing benefits for a number of others. It sure makes this change pale in comparison.

I suspect we'd be discussing somewhere on page 700 by now if that happened ... or the mods would ban discussion on the topic altogether due to it crashing the servers.

Seriously though, some of the changes they've made already give higher point owners an advantage. It doesn't appear to be nearly the same scope as the Bluegreen changes though. Like you, I suspect we'll see some additional changes and benefits to those with higher point allocations.

Would you start to buy back in if that happened?

 

[Dean]

AKV is open now, isn't it all AKV's fault?

No, SSR. AKV will be a portion of a solution.

Would you start to buy back in if that happened?

Unlikely even if I could no longer trade in or use my point I then had. The question is whether I'd sell my remaining points or not and it would depend on how the system was working for me at the time. But one thing you can bet is that while I might post an informational post as to what/why i was selling, I wouldn't be blaming anyone, esp DVC.

That said, I would think that number is *very* small. I would think most DVC owners have a computer and/or internet access at home. I mean, didn't they just make Internet Access Free due to overwhelming member request?

Locally it's about 90% that have access but that access is not necessarily at home. We quantify the number that have access for our system and it includes library, friend, at work and at home. We ask if they have access, not if they have it at certain times. According to "Wired" it's about 75% nationwide at home the last I knew and I think we can agree that 25% of members couldn't be adversely affected under this change we're discussing even in the worst case scenario. So anyone who thinks this change is unfair would have to be against online bookings it'd seem to me.

 

[Dean]

If the 'System' is going to make an arbitrary decision without consulting their membership, then they risk alienating that same membership. That's why I brought up the vote. If you vote and lose, it's one thing. If you aren't allowed to vote and are essentially told most people wanted it, it just doesn't leave a warm fuzzy feeling -- how do they know most wanted it if they didn't allow people to vote? Maybe that's just me though.

That's how DVC works. We all signed away our rights to vote in all but extreme circumstances. Though while they didn't put it up for vote doesn't mean they didn't seek input, it seems to me they did have a lot of input.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

In 2007 we booked a 1 bedroom starting Friday 11/9 at BCV then on 11/16, when the kids came, we went to a 2 bedroom for six nights and then back to a 1 bedroom for another 8 nights. Actually we just opened the closed the studio door to make the changes in size.
Would this be a continuous reservation so that I could book DBD after getting my first seven days or would I have to call back and go thru the seven day exercise each time I changed rooms? In 2007 I started booking DBD and only had a problem when I missed calling three days and the result was that I had to take the 2 bedroom two days early or go on a wait list... MS encouraged me to do DBD booking from that point on to assure my best chance to finish the planned stay.

 

[Dean]

In 2007 we booked a 1 bedroom starting Friday 11/9 at BCV then on 11/16, when the kids came, we went to a 2 bedroom for six nights and then back to a 1 bedroom for another 8 nights. Actually we just opened the closed the studio door to make the changes in size.
Would this be a continuous reservation so that I could book DBD after getting my first seven days or would I have to call back and go thru the seven day exercise each time I changed rooms? In 2007 I started booking DBD and only had a problem when I missed calling three days and the result was that I had to take the 2 bedroom two days early or go on a wait list... MS encouraged me to do DBD booking from that point on to assure my best chance to finish the planned stay.

Technically any difference in the unit is a separate reservation whether it be 1 BR or 2 BR (even if in the same lockoff), 2 BR dedicated vs lockoff or different resort same unit type/size. Your example would be 3 separate reservations and at best, 3 calls 11 months out from the check in date for each portion. My guess is that's not what you wanted to hear.

 

[danielle782001]

Do you trust your DH to call? I had mine call at the 7 month mark for MLK, since my eldest had a 9am appointment.

It is funny that you ask this because he never makes the reservations because I am not sure he can be trusted to call at 9:00 like I would request...He is a wonderful man but he does not get this whole thing about the need to call first thing...

Thanks for the info

 

[Starr W.]

It is funny that you ask this because he never makes the reservations because I am not sure he can be trusted to call at 9:00 like I would request...He is a wonderful man but he does not get this whole thing about the need to call first thing...

Thanks for the info

I had to have mine call at the 7 month mark for MLK, he didn't want to do the dr. appointment run(9am) with the eldest. He did okay got us switched to a BW view.

 

[jdg345]

No, SSR. AKV will be a portion of a solution.

How so? They're both remote and on the edge of nowhere!

Unlikely even if I could no longer trade in or use my point I then had. The question is whether I'd sell my remaining points or not and it would depend on how the system was working for me at the time. But one thing you can bet is that while I might post an informational post as to what/why i was selling, I wouldn't be blaming anyone, esp DVC.

Fair enough!

Locally it's about 90% that have access but that access is not necessarily at home. We quantify the number that have access for our system and it includes library, friend, at work and at home. We ask if they have access, not if they have it at certain times. According to "Wired" it's about 75% nationwide at home the last I knew and I think we can agree that 25% of members couldn't be adversely affected under this change we're discussing even in the worst case scenario. So anyone who thinks this change is unfair would have to be against online bookings it'd seem to me.

The demographics are not the same, however, for those with access to your system and those with memberships to DVC. At least, imo.

 

[jdg345]

In 2007 we booked a 1 bedroom starting Friday 11/9 at BCV then on 11/16, when the kids came, we went to a 2 bedroom for six nights and then back to a 1 bedroom for another 8 nights. Actually we just opened the closed the studio door to make the changes in size.
Would this be a continuous reservation so that I could book DBD after getting my first seven days or would I have to call back and go thru the seven day exercise each time I changed rooms? In 2007 I started booking DBD and only had a problem when I missed calling three days and the result was that I had to take the 2 bedroom two days early or go on a wait list... MS encouraged me to do DBD booking from that point on to assure my best chance to finish the planned stay.

I agree with Dean on this ... as they are different categories, they are all separate reservations and you would have to wait until the stay was completely within 11 months or book based on (3) arrival dates at 11+7.

 

[Dean]

How so? They're both remote and on the edge of nowhere!

Just pulling your chain to a degree. Discussing the impact of SSR on other reservations is about as good and busy a topic as this has been.

The demographics are not the same, however, for those with access to your system and those with memberships to DVC. At least, imo.

But the principles hold that a significant proportion don't have internet access at all and even less would be able to use it for personal options such as DVC reservations. If DVC decides to allow it I wouldn't be upset but it would certainly affect the members ability to reserve at the same time by phone as online and would seem contrary to the exact principles that you and others have argued on this thread. Hard data suggests that 25% don't have internet at home nationally, our local data suggests 10% in the FL state capital that are working (have insurance) don't have internet access at all, it'd be a stretch to say that every single DVC member has internet access. Does 25%, 10% or even 5% change the issues; I wouldn't think it's matter what the % is only whether it's OK or not OK. Again we're back to the fact that there is no truly 100% system, which is where we started I believe.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

Technically any difference in the unit is a separate reservation whether it be 1 BR or 2 BR (even if in the same lockoff), 2 BR dedicated vs lockoff or different resort same unit type/size. Your example would be 3 separate reservations and at best, 3 calls 11 months out from the check in date for each portion. My guess is that's not what you wanted to hear.

I haven’t read that the reservation has to be in the same room type. All that I have read is that on day two (if you have the first 7 days) you can book day 8 then 9 etc. The two bedroom was being booked for the week of Thanksgiving which may require that I “walk” starting earlier than I really need it just to assure that the stay won’t be interrupted, likewise for the third room starting after Thanksgiving. Essentially DBD is the same thing I am allowed to do after my first seven days. I’ll just start early.