New policy for reservations based on check IN date

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I am curious, since there is a body of opinion that DBD was not needed except in very rare situations, for those who book 7+ day stays what is the logic of bothering with DBD extensions. If it was not needed before, why do it now? Or will you not bother and just finish your reservation on the 11-month window for your last day


bookwormde
 
I booked my Dec 2008 trip at VWL using DBD. Calling every morning at 9am in early January, I got busy signal after busy signal, or if I was lucky to get through, the wait time on hold was horrendous.

If I add-up all the time I spent that week on hold, it's pretty ridiculous. No vacation club should require you to spend so much time on hold. A lot of that call volume were other DBD bookers calling back each morning.

The new system will decrease the amount of time I'll have to spend on hold listening to Disney song after Disney song.

Well, it wasn't required. You could have hung up and called based on departure day, or later that afternoon. You chose to hold and wait. Why? Because apparently that reservation was worth it to you. It was your choice. And to this I say: Good for you!. :thumbsup2

If you wanted it bad enough to wait through all that and get up early, then you deserve it more than someone who doesn't want to wait on hold and doesn't want to be inconvenienced by an early morning call. You worked harder for it, and were rewarded, as it should be. :)
 
Of course not. Change can sometimes generate uncertainty, and I understand why members might become concerned with the policy change -- especially those that book DBD as they feel they are loosing what they perceive is a valuable tool.

I think a lot of folks on this board may be worried about their ability to book their reservations. A lot of people who weren't concerned before are probably fearful now after reading this long thread.

The bottom line is: should folks be fearful of the new policy? Based upon the information available, I don't think so. Yes, that is my opinion.

However, I believe the fear is not founded on fact, but upon hypothetical scenarios that may or may not occur. There may be some loosers with the new policy, but I think there will be more people who benefit from the new policy than those who don't.

You don't have to agree with me, and I don't have to agree with you. We'll all see how this plays out over the next few months. It's premature (IMO) for folks to talk about selling their membership.

I agree with you here for the most part, except I think it's okay for people to talk about selling their membership as an option if they end up negatively affected -- It's just another scenario. Now, if people are climbing over each other to make an immediate appointment with TSS based on this policy, I would say that is way premature. ;)
 
While some of our members think that Disney did this to make all our lives better and easier, do any of you think that the Disney powers at be may have sat around a board room table actually discussing how to fill rooms on weekends, minimize short stays, minimize Sunday through Thursday stays...

I, for one, HOPE that DVC is doing the above. :thumbsup2 Any good management company needs to be looking out for the welfare of its membership as a whole, even if changes come at the expense of a small minority.

If we see an increase in weekend point stays, there will be a similar decrease in weekday point usage. Fewer short stays reduces administrative overhead (reduced room cleanings, front desk check-ins, key cards, arrival packets, etc.)

As for whether people decide to buy additional points in response to these changes, that is a personal decision. But I don't see add-on sales as any big motivator here. If that were DVC's goal, they could have done it much more effectively by reallocating the point charts. Raising the weekday points (while lowering weekends) or increasing the overall points for popular times like early December would have caused much more grief for those who economize.

As my husband said "is Disney going to pass all those savings on to us via lower member dues."

By law, they must. DVC has about 4 months to assess the impact of these changes before budgeting for 2009. If, as expected, call volume and on-hold wait times decrease, those expenses will be budgeted at lower amounts for 2009. There may also be adjustments to housekeeping and "front desk" expenses, although it will probably take longer than 4 months for those trends to emerge.

Does that mean we will see a dues decrease in '09? Probably not. Fuel prices, in particular, will probably drive dues up in a manner that exceeds the savings here. But whatever the final 2009 calculation ends up being, logically it would be even higher if not for these changes.
 

Kathi OD

It is clear that there is an inequity between full week and shorter stay members, and we know that some high demand reservation are fully sold within 1 or 2 days. So if is certainly not “speculation” that the system will be inequitable for some members. The real debate is the extent of the impact of this inequity.

My point is if there are changes that can be made to make it statistically less likely for the inequities to have real world negative impacts, waiting for them to happen flies in the face of the pupose of statistical analysis and planning.

I guess I am a fix it before it happens person.


bookwormde
Actually to me the question is does it matter if it's harder to book a shorter stay than a longer one esp assuming we're talking 7 days vs less, my opinion would be no it does not matter and I usually stay 5 days S-F.
do any of you think that the Disney powers at be may have sat around a board room table actually discussing how to fill rooms on weekends, minimize short stays, minimize Sunday through Thursday stays, encourage current members to buy add-ons at home resorts, encourage prospective members to buy more points, decrease the prices in the resale market due to an influx of resales of existing contracts and hence the ROFR price for existing resorts, etc.
Actually I would be surprised if most of those items were not discussed in one way or another and that a number of them were specifically looked at as positives with the change. We do know that encouraging less calls and avoiding DBD bookings were specific goals, as to their take on the rest, I don't know.

Dean:

We actually agree on something. As you said "the system should not be in the business of deciding who is a deserving member". It has determined by the nature of the system that the person who arrives before another is now the deserving member by allowing that member to reserve before the 11/7 month booking window. Other members mid-week reservations or Sunday to Thursday reservations no longer matter to those more deserving members or to DVC as long as someone else wins and is happy.

maminnie
I doubt we agree. What I said was it should not be the goal of the system to decide who (person) was deserving. Obviously if there are winners and losers there is a reason and that reason may be the rules in place. As long as the system isn't emotional about it by trying to socially engineer to the groups you mentioned in an earlier post or any other specific person or group, I'm OK with it. DVC does have two options for high demand times. They include a lottery and a special season preference list. Both have been used in the past. The lottery was used once, for the turn of the century and didn't work out very well as I recall. The special season preference list went on for a number of years but I'm sure there are others far more knowledgeable to discuss that than I.

I'm going with the first one. ;)
IF you go with the first one now you may have a much less chance of success.

I wonder how they'd feel if they camped out overnight to be first in line, and then found out that the 10 people behind him/her were going to be allowed to buy tickets first because they were going to the earlier show. So now instead of getting a shot to compete for those floor seats, they have to wait for 10 other people to complete their transactions before having a shot. Meanwhile, other outlets have less people for the early show and so by the time this camper has a shot, inventory is less than it would have been had he been able to buy tickets right away. :confused3
This is the way it works now. Sponsors often get first crack, then Fan clubs, then promotions (radios stations) then when sales open it's the internet sales that happen almost instantaneously.
 
Tjkraz:

I bought enough points to accomplish the trips I needed to accomplish. Why should I now have to buy more points because they decided to give someone a head start on a reservation over another member?

Tjkraz's your post supports one of my questions: Could (yes DVC Mike I said could) this indeed be one of the reasons DVC made this policy change?????

maminnie
 
My understanding was that many who were successful still complained about the necessity to do so.

Obviously possible, but I'm not sure why someone would complain about getting their desired reservation. Of course, in this day and age, people will complain about just about everything.

I doubt it's 99% but in my view it doesn't matter as if there are any losers under the new system there were at least an equal # under the old system. It seems many here are ignoring the FACT that DVC felt there was a problem and they needed to find a solution. It's also FACT that their judgment was that reserving DBD was a problem to the members and for MS. You can disagree with their judgment if you want. They came up with a solution, one I feel was reasonable. But lets assume that you were in charge and felt you needed to change and were willing to do what was best for the system and members as a whole (to a degree what's best for the system IS also best for the members). Your goal was to significantly decrease DBD calls, maximize reservations on a single call, stay within the POS and keep members overall as happy as possible realizing you can't make everyone happy. And further assume you were willing to support the best system even if it was horrible for you personally. What would YOU come up with as a change?, keeping DBD would not be an option nor would complicated formulas, algorithms to see who was most deserving or the like.

It would certainly be a tough call ... but there are options. Why not put up a vote and say that they need to either reduce calls to MS by removing/changing DBD or by raising dues $0.0X per point? Sure, some people here will lose, but at least then we, as members, know it was a majority rule and not based on some 'who-knows-what-statistic' that DVC is using. Why not look more into online booking? Online bookings would greatly reduce the calls to MS, and if that is the key goal, that's where they should be directing resources, imo.
 
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Kathi OD

It is clear that there is an inequity between full week and shorter stay members, and we know that some high demand reservation are fully sold within 1 or 2 days. So if is certainly not “speculation” that the system will be inequitable for some members. The real debate is the extent of the impact of this inequity.

My point is if there are changes that can be made to make it statistically less likely for the inequities to have real world negative impacts, waiting for them to happen flies in the face of the pupose of statistical analysis and planning.

I guess I am a fix it before it happens person.


bookwormde

The difference between us is that I saw inequity in the old system. So IMO, they took something that was broke and tried to fix it. Now if after the new system is in place for a bit, and there ends up to be more problems than w/ the old system, fine, complain away. But assuming what and how big the problems may or may not be, before the new system has a chance to work is purely speculation.
 
jdg345:

Booking and renting busy weeks does sound like a bit easier at this time...great idea!!! New Years Eve week should get what $12 to $15 per point. We can take our money and run to a non-Disney resort!!!!! And Disney no longer gets our incidental money for park tickets, food, expensive foo foo drink, bottles of fine wines, souvenirs, etc.

I have always wanted to travel the Caribbean, Europe, Bermuda........but those darn Disney kids of mine are really going to mess this theory up for me!!!!!!!

I really have to laugh and joke about all this or I might cry!!!! With that note, I really have to start enjoying this beautiful Sunday.

maminnie

Just imagine how much a 7 day AKL Concierge stay is going to go for during the Holidays?

Denise in MI
 
I am curious, since there is a body of opinion that DBD was not needed except in very rare situations, for those who book 7+ day stays what is the logic of bothering with DBD extensions. If it was not needed before, why do it now? Or will you not bother and just finish your reservation on the 11-month window for your last day


bookwormde
For any days it was not needed, there would be absolutely nothing to complain about under the new system either. Everything would work and no one would lose out. But we're talking a situation where some will win and some will lose at 11 months out are we not? If so the only question is how best to arrive at that decision both from a members and a system standpoint realizing they have different goals and needs and that every choice will be a compromise between the 2.
 
But this type of reservation is exactly the litmus test that should be used. If it's not tough enough to have a problem getting the reservation, nothing matters. There are certainly other approaches DVC could have made. They could have simply said non DBD or each addition was either a separate reservation or a cancellation and rebooking. Anything that would be consistently available at 7 days or more after the 11 month window opens is irrelevant. The only things that come into play are the things that one person was getting and another wasn't within that initial window. It seems many are saying it's OK to have losers as long as it's not them.

I maintain that all or nothing is less flexible and more restrictive than the ability to pick up partial stays. It allows a choice to the member. If they want to move and deal with it, it's up to them. Or they can release the reservation and give it to someone else.

Actually if you change people to reservations it is a zero sum game as there are only X number of any given unit and only X units total for any day.

Yes, but member's desires for those reservations are not all equal.

Exactly except I see some type of similar change as a given.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. That said, I think the fact that some suggest that further changes are going to be required is proof in itself that this new policy cannot stand on its own whereas DBD could. They should have just left well enough alone at that point. IMO.
 
Obviously possible, but I'm not sure why someone would complain about getting their desired reservation. Of course, in this day and age, people will complain about just about everything.

They would complain because of the inconvenience to them in having to make the ressie by calling in at exactly 9AM for as many days as they want.
 
As many have stated before, I also think this new policy could be greatly enhanced if new rules were put in place to "discourage" the practice of walking. I think most of the apprehension is based on the fact that many people (myself included) think that the new policy may drive some people to tie up days they don't intend to use just to walk to their desired reservation. If people use the new system to just book the times they need I think it has a legitimate shot of working out for all, with the exception of Xmas and New Years which I agree could be benefited by a lottery (this seems to be the only suggestion made which is fair to ALL those who want those extremely high demand times).

But people are going to do whatever they feel they can to make sure they get the reservations they want. If that happens to be walking, then it's going to happen, just like DBD. It's just a little more cumbersome now than before and might require some extra points to do 'best'. :confused3

Any additional tweaks to this system are going to impact yet another group of members. Will that need to be tweaked then too? Where does it end? :confused3
 
VWL in December is a popular reservation, and since DBD booking was available under the old system, and since there were other members out there taking advantage of DBD booking, I did as well. The phone lines were busy and the MS wait time was very long. :sad2:

I think this year was 'special' due to the large amount of Developers Points in the system; but that is just my opinion. I do agree that this December was tougher than just about every other one previously.

With the new system, I won't have to book DBD anymore. :thumbsup2

You might not get your arrival date though either. If you call on your arrival date to find out it's booked, what would you do? Book a different category? Different Resort? Waitlist? Change your days? Yes, I realize it's an If situation, but it's also a possible one. Have you given it any thought? Or do you figure you'll get your arrival date + 7 and cross 'that bridge' if necessary?

All the arguments have been laid out, yet the conversation goes on. This is a discussion forum and if folks want to keep discussing it, so be it.

Agreed ... until everyone agrees the horse is dead, it will continue to get beaten. ;)
 
Dean,

I was really trying to get a feel if people were really going to use it if DBD with their perception not needed for this period and what their basis was for doing the extra work


bookwormde
 
Whenever someone posts that they waited for 'x' amount of time for a bus or for 'y' amount of time to check into a room, there are always responders who feel inclined to say they have never experienced that in 'z' number of trips. That's all well and good, but it doesn't mitigate the original circumstance for the one who did experience the problems. Unless your point is to cast doubt on the veracity of those who have had experiences different from yours, it really is irrelevant whether you personally have experienced delays, since others obviously have.

Excellent point! While I cannot speak for others, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to add to the discussion whether or not the situation has happened to you. I don't see it as an attempt to discredit someone, but to show that perhaps the situation was anomolous. We get reports of people going to check in and not having a reservation at all. I'm sure most people would say it has not happened to them, but I don't think they do so to discredit the OP; instead, they do so to suggest it is an anomolous occurrence. :confused3

Likewise, if a bunch of people chime in in kind, then it might shed light on an issue that was otherwise unknown; which, imo, is a good thing. ;)
 
Obviously possible, but I'm not sure why someone would complain about getting their desired reservation. Of course, in this day and age, people will complain about just about everything.
And it appears DVC members more than most. My understanding was that those that called DBD and got their reservations tended to complain because they had to do it that way and they didn't feel they should. Those that feel they need to protect certain groups should realize that many of those groups are the exact ones that couldn't call DBD. Not that I'm saying they didn't have the option but that is reality that they couldn't. IMO that was OK as is a change that would actually favor them as I think this change will in the long run.




It would certainly be a tough call ... but there are options. Why not put up a vote and say that they need to either reduce calls to MS by removing/changing DBD or by raising dues $0.0X per point? Sure, some people here will lose, but at least then we, as members, know it was a majority rule and not based on some 'who-knows-what-statistic' that DVC is using. Why not look more into online booking? Online bookings would greatly reduce the calls to MS, and if that is the key goal, that's where they should be directing resources, imo.
First, I asked you to make a decision and offer a specific thought on what you would have done to fix the problems laid out. You chose not to and waned to offer it for a vote. OK, lets take it a step further. Do you think you or I could design a vote that would get the exact results we wanted and still appear to be unbiased? How would you have voted if you'd have been presented with this issue vs an increase of $1 a point? How do you think the membership would have voted? I now you'll come back and say that's absurd, we're not talking that much money but in reality is FAR closer to that than $0.0X a point. I'd say if all DBD type bookings were stopped we'd be talking a 30-40% or more savings on the cost of MS. If we encourage longer bookings and increase the average length of stay by simply 1/4 to 1/2 day each add another 10-20% savings or more on reduced resort specific costs such as housekeeping, bell services, valet, front desk. I know some of these are currently outsourced but there is an inherent cost to each. And I realize that every benefit has a cost and the system must decide WHERE to draw the line. When do you pay for something for all that not everyone uses such as the pool, internet, cable, concierge, etc; the system must decide and it appears they have done so in this case.
 
I just wonder how many people will "not" be booking concierge AKV's for 1 night to do the safari since it will most likely be completely booked by the time they can call for that 1 night and it can hinder their chance on getting the rest of the nights they needed in order to complete their vacation. I'm sure most of them did not buy enough points to cover their entire vacation in concierge if they only thought about using it for 1 night every couple of vacations.

I know I bought enough to cover a week in concierge 2 bed every year for the time I want to go or it can take me longer than a week in a regular Savannah view room.

These people can always just book twice, and then cancel the first day(s) in the regular reservation at 11 months. Again, advantage higher point banks. :confused3
 
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