New pavilion coming to Epcot and it's not a real country

[Andrew015]

But I'll wait for someone to try

But Frozen takes place in a make-believe, fictional land that closely resembles Norway, and my DD loves Frozen, and EPCOT is SOOOOoooooo boring for my kidz, and... and...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's all you got?

 

[OldsDr]

I hope We will sit in an Ice Sled. Then I hope they show us clips of Frozen on a slow moving slightly curved platform. That would be a great new ride.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

But Frozen takes place in a make-believe, fictional land that closely resembles Norway, and my DD loves Frozen, and EPCOT is SOOOOoooooo boring for my kidz, and... and...

Actually, I believe Frozen is set in a fictional Kingdom in the past that is located in the land that is now know as Norway. Not in a separate country. But it clearly is Norway, and this was clearly stated long before the movie came out and was successful. Just a technicality, I know, but I think a key technicality.

In reality, it all comes down to how they do it and how, and to what degree, Norway is worked into the ride. If they are going to keep the boat ride basic elements, then $75 million can do a huge amount!

And just to argue further New Fantasy Land is fantastic and well done! The Belle Meet and Greet is amazing, and Be Our Guest is a home run. A restaurant that is almost like a ride itself. The Mine train is a great ride and perfect in the sense that it is fun, but age appropriate for Fantasy Land. That mountain is amazing BTW. I like the space, decorations, theming, etc. My only negative is that I wish they could have done more with Tangled, but it is still great.

 

[rteetz]

Actually, I believe Frozen is set in a fictional Kingdom in the past that is located in the land that is now know as Norway. Not in a separate country. But it clearly is Norway, and this was clearly stated long before the movie came out and was successful. Just a technicality, I know, but I think a key technicality. In reality, it all comes down to how they do it and how, and to what degree, Norway is worked into the ride. If they are going to keep the boat ride basic elements, then $75 million can do a huge amount! And just to argue further New Fantasy Land is fantastic and well done! The Belle Meet and Greet is amazing, and Be Our Guest is a home run. A restaurant that is almost like a ride itself. The Mine train is a great ride and perfect in the sense that it is fun, but age appropriate for Fantasy Land. That mountain is amazing BTW. I like the space, decorations, theming, etc. My only negative is that I wish they could have done more with Tangled, but it is still great.

Disney should be held to a high standard. Just good enough isn't good enough. Disney used to wow us all what have they done to wow us lately. I think fantasyland was done well the theming is nice but did anything there wow me no. Frozen deserves its own new ride in fantasyland. Yes it was technically set in Norway but not once in the movie to they even mention that. I don't think we will be seeing a ride with frozen characters discussing Norway I just don't see it.

 

[wallrock]

The sponsorship stuff was a misdirection...no doubt.

But there is definitely a valid argument from traditional EPCOT fans.

I'm sorry..."Disney knows best" just isn't a good enough reason to trust them anymore.

They don't put the same level of quality and the desire to get it right in their park designs and decisions anymore...especially in the swamp.

You can certainly disagree and offer counter arguments...but It is inappropriate to dismiss those that see this as having more of an effect longterm than simply
"Giving my DD what she wants!"

100% agree here.

Those who feel that Disney never fails, or who are quick to attack those who question or criticize Disney practices seldom offer up a compelling argument against the criticism. The answer usually defaults to attaching 'hater' monikers or plain 'stupid' to the commentary. Feel free to disagree, but you can't ignore the rather large chorus who feel Disney ain't what it used to be, and the changes aren't necessarily for the better.

 

[luisov]

Disney used to wow us all what have they done to wow us lately.

I've got a few answers for that one. It's just that none of them are in Florida.

 

[Suger Mag]

100% agree here.

Those who feel that Disney never fails, or who are quick to attack those who question or criticize Disney practices seldom offer up a compelling argument against the criticism. The answer usually defaults to attaching 'hater' monikers or plain 'stupid' to the commentary. Feel free to disagree, but you can't ignore the rather large chorus who feel Disney ain't what it used to be, and the changes aren't necessarily for the better.

A loud chorus does not always equate to a large chorus.

Why are you so interested in the 'us' vs 'them' mentality? You can make your point about what you would like to see changed without attacking the other side. The only person being a 'hater' and essentially calling people stupid right now is you.

 

[beer dave]

Disney should be held to a high standard. Just good enough isn't good enough. Disney used to wow us all what have they done to wow us lately. I think fantasyland was done well the theming is nice but did anything there wow me no. Frozen deserves its own new ride in fantasyland. Yes it was technically set in Norway but not once in the movie to they even mention that. I don't think we will be seeing a ride with frozen characters discussing Norway I just don't see it.

I hold to the idea that the bulk of the individuals with this opinion are suffering from over exposure. Give a homeless person my house and they will be feeling surrounded by luxury, but force a very wealthy person into my house and they might kill themselves.......

Most of the feelings of passed grandeur are very likely based on the times when it all was new to us.

Last weekend I was to the world with a good friend who has not been to the parks in 20 years. When we went on peter pan, she was amazed and marveled about how the track under the ride disappears and couldn't find how the ride was supported. I recalled that feeling from when I was 11. It is still the same ride, but the perspective is different.

 

[wallrock]

A loud chorus does not always equate to a large chorus.

Why are you so interested in the 'us' vs 'them' mentality? You can make your point about what you would like to see changed without attacking the other side. The only person being a 'hater' and essentially calling people stupid right now is you.

I rest my case.

 

[Suger Mag]

I rest my case.

No... you prove my point...

I am all for discussion and enjoy the conversation.

 

[Suger Mag]

I hold to the idea that the bulk of the individuals with this opinion are suffering from over exposure. Give a homeless person my house and they will be feeling surrounded by luxury, but force a very wealthy person into my house and they might kill themselves.......

Most of the feelings of passed grandeur are very likely based on the times when it all was new to us.

Last weekend I was to the world with a good friend who has not been to the parks in 20 years. When we went on peter pan, she was amazed and marveled about how the track under the ride disappears and couldn't find how the ride was supported. I recalled that feeling from when I was 11. It is still the same ride, but the perspective is different.

I generally agree with this hypothesis. It is hard to argue against the "good ol days' when you have never really experienced them. I honestly doubt that I will continue to be as entranced by WDW in 20 years... as I am now with only really 6 years of consistant visiting under my belt. But I do know if I am continually dissapointed in a place... I will not continue to spend money going there... nor will I publicly ridicule those who do enjoy their time there.

I respect that WDW has changed and many people do not like the current direction.... however there are just as many people who are very happy. I enjoy going to WDW, it works with the way I and my family currently vacation, and the things that we enjoy... so yes we find it magical or wowing. I am looking forward to Pandora... I actually prefer the new fountain... I like more fantasy in World Showcase... I don't care about exspensive sunglasseses or bags covered with flora and paisley. Many of the things that people bitterly complain about here on R&N do not bother me. That does not mean I am a hater... or cannot launch an effective counter argument because perhaps there is no real argument... you don't like something I do. I like blue... maybe you don't like blue and REALLY like red, that does invalidate the 'blue affection' by those who like blue.

I enjoy the discussion, but I do not enjoy comments that are divisive, and sometimes they seem really rampent on the R&N, it is sad because I think it pushes people away from this board.

If I have contributed to the divisiveness then I am sincerely sorry, because that is not my intention, but just to enjoy the conversation without feeling like I am being insulted.

 

[rteetz]

I've got a few answers for that one. It's just that none of them are in Florida.

Exactly

 

[rteetz]

I hold to the idea that the bulk of the individuals with this opinion are suffering from over exposure. Give a homeless person my house and they will be feeling surrounded by luxury, but force a very wealthy person into my house and they might kill themselves....... Most of the feelings of passed grandeur are very likely based on the times when it all was new to us. Last weekend I was to the world with a good friend who has not been to the parks in 20 years. When we went on peter pan, she was amazed and marveled about how the track under the ride disappears and couldn't find how the ride was supported. I recalled that feeling from when I was 11. It is still the same ride, but the perspective is different.

Oh I completely understand that I saw the same thing on my trip two weeks ago as well. My grandparents hadn't been in 15 years and my aunt and uncle in even longer. They just kept thinking about the operation behind what happens and how amazing it is. My uncle was really intrigued by this since he is an engineer. I went on Tower of Terror for the first time as well and I thought that was really cool. There are things I still love that's why I keep going when I can. But if you think about it the last big WDW ride was what Everest? Maybe TSMM (fun ride but was it anything new technology wise). I will say that 7DMT the animatronics are very well done I think they are the best disney has done in a long time in WDW at least.

 

[mcd2745]

I hold to the idea that the bulk of the individuals with this opinion are suffering from over exposure. Give a homeless person my house and they will be feeling surrounded by luxury, but force a very wealthy person into my house and they might kill themselves.......

Most of the feelings of passed grandeur are very likely based on the times when it all was new to us.

Last weekend I was to the world with a good friend who has not been to the parks in 20 years. When we went on peter pan, she was amazed and marveled about how the track under the ride disappears and couldn't find how the ride was supported. I recalled that feeling from when I was 11. It is still the same ride, but the perspective is different.

I also agree that for a large number of the people who seem so disenchanted with today's WDW...the 'law of diminishing returns' probably plays a very large factor in that. Another thing that many are guilty of (I know I have been for sure), is that many often try to exactly re-create previous trips - of which we look back on fondly - and therefore everything is somewhat forced instead of letting things unfold organically. This usually can only lead to disappointment. Combine those things with the lack of exciting/inspiring new attractions over the last number of years, and you get the sentiments we're seeing more and more. So, I feel like some, but not all, of it is on Disney and some of it...is on ourselves.

 

[Planogirl]

Painting those who find fault with WDW all the same is just about as insulting as chiding those who can see no wrong for their feelings. We all have a variety of reasons for our disappointment but then Disney does give us a lot to work with.

I'll just add that I haven't seen any real attacks on this thread but then I tend to be thick-skinned.

 

[Laketravis]

Most of the feelings of passed grandeur are very likely based on the times when it all was new to us.

Excellent point. First time we took DS, he was 5 years old and it was 2010. We landed, checked into CR, and headed to Epcot. It was around 5pm.

He spent his first two hours at WDW in Innovations. Couldn't pry the kid out of there. We knew there was a lot more for him to see, do, and experience but as far as he was concerned he had hit the mother lode right out of the gate.

Fast forward to last month, he's 9, and he won't even go in there. We had to convince him to do Nemo and Turtle Talk, two things he loved just a few years ago.

It was nostalgic in it's own way for us ("Remember when he loved this?") but disappointing at the same time. I suppose it would be nice if each time we went there was something new to catch his interest and perpetuate the momentum, but that would require way more than a new ride or two every few years and the stream of never-been-before guests is probably sufficient to render such efforts unnecessary.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

A loud chorus does not always equate to a large chorus.

Why are you so interested in the 'us' vs 'them' mentality? You can make your point about what you would like to see changed without attacking the other side. The only person being a 'hater' and essentially calling people stupid right now is you.

Wrong...

Please provide examples of new (in aggregate) additions to the guest experience INCLUDED WITHIN THE ADMISSION PRICE since 2008...

Thanks

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Believe it or not ( )...

I agree with the overexposure and "replication" problems in criticism...
Indeed I suffer from that...

However... The part that doesn't support the argument is that Disney has spent a large part of their marketing focus/ business strategy since the boom years expansion on developing and retaining repeat, guaranteed business...
Some people have seen this on slide/PowerPoint presentations while wearing a nametag...

They will still absolutely identify that as a prime if not the prime goal.

So how do you defend it over the 15 year arc?

That's the burr under my saddle

 

[Suger Mag]

Wrong...

Please provide examples of new (in aggregate) additions to the guest experience INCLUDED WITHIN THE ADMISSION PRICE since 2008...

Thanks

LOL... I know you have a laundry list of things I should be upset about, But I am not as impatient for new experiences as you. I can still go to WDW and and there are 'old' rides I have never ridden. For the most part, everything I like to do is still there. And I am very excited for the things coming up.

Hmmm... new since 2008: Dwarf Train, FantasyLand etc... not really my thing, but I think it adds to the customer experience. I have not ridden the new dwarf train addition yet. Happy to see changes to Epcot, not matter how nobel the original intent, the park as it is now is not working and I am happy to see more Fantasy coming to WDW. I have been to the real place for many of those countries and the pavilions are a pale imitation, so I agree with adding Frozen... and Alice and Remy and more Mulan. In all honesty I could care less about Anna and Elsa and Frozen, but I don't begrudge those who do.

I am excited that Disney has a global presence and those parks are very cool. I look forward to visiting all the international parks someday. Already making plans for Shanghai to coincide with my daughter's graduation from high school (she goes to a Chinese language immersion school so we want to do a China trip)

Yes I do have lots of faith faith in what is coming down the road... Why not. I like it now. I am very much looking forward to Pandora and the changes to Downtown. I also have hopes to see the evolution of a new era at Hollywood. I have DVC already... don't need more and I am happy with what I got. I don't eat at the parks restaurants besides a treat here or there. I picnic and cook in my 2 bedroom kitchen. Life at the world is very good. Perhaps I am foolishly easy to please.... I will be honest, generally life is a lot more fun when you are.