New Parking Structure/Pedestrian Bridge Question

[ClaraOswald]

This whole project just might increase business at the resort hotels.

Not for those on a budget though. It will just push people like me farther away from the parks....which means less money spent in the parks and downtown disney, for sure.

 

[Darkbeer1]

If you look at the map that was shown at the wdwinfo link and on page 1 of this thread, which is the map submitted by Disney to the city of Anaheim, at the north east corner of Harbor and Disney way, there is a new sidewalk area that is shown under the Electrical lines that run from that corner to the new Pedestrain Entrance Walk that is between the Grand Legacy at the Park and the Pummba Lot, and is the one shown in the artist's rendering of the new area and featured in the Original OC Register news article and video.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disney-725346-parking-disneyland.html

This is the one entrance Disney is referring to in the answer. It is also the one the city wants to be used to improve traffic flow in the area. "However, visitors can use a pedestrian pathway at Harbor and Disney Way directly to the Eastern Gateway." And the Eastern Gateway is the New Transportation Hub and Bridge. So just the improved walkway on Disney Way instead of the current small one that is located from the Pummba lot to Harbor Blvd.

As for the Disney Hotels, Disney is pretty much maxed out capacity for all three Hotels they own so it won't increase their business, besides, they are located on the west end of Downtown Disney can have walks around 3/4 of a mile (depending on where the specific room is located on the large Hotel area), so it doesn't make them any closer. It might boost the rates a bit, but not renting out more rooms.

And Gary, there are ways to design the Bridge project to not eliminate any main traffic lanes, and the current west side sidewalk on Harbor can easily be moved. Disney could surrender some land to the city for a new easement to allow the adjustments needed to the sidewalk. It would be cheaper (once again, IMHO) for Disney to do that then pay to move the Monorail Track. Remember that the proposed changes include removing the public bus stop under the Monorail tracks on Harbor, which opens up more land for options.

 

[tlovesdis]

This whole project just might increase business at the resort hotels.

It's probably going to jack the prices up even more.

 

[Darkbeer1]

If you want to talk about Hotel impacts, look more at the changes that have happened and will happen. Anaheim and the surrounding area (such as Garden Grove and Buena Park) has a large amount of Hotel rooms available as compared to other areas in Southern California, and have always been a mix, from low one-star Motels to 4 Star properties. Lately, the area is getting a lot of new "Extended Stay" type of Hotels, which include some sort of kitchen, and then more medium limited service Hotels, such as the new Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express. The city of Anaheim has been pushing for new 4-star Hotels for the area, offering a major tax break for investing in one. There are 4 current Hotels that have requested and received approval from the city, Disney got one for a 4th Hotel to be built where the current Downtown Disney parking lot and next to the Disneyland Hotel on the north side. It will be about 700 rooms and finished around 2021. It is designed to be the highest quality property of the 4 Disney Hotels on property and will have the highest rates.

Then you have the JW Marriott, which will be built on current Anaheim GardenWalk property at the south west corner of Disney Way and Clementine, across the street from the Pummba. The owners of the Anaheim Plaza (Wincome, which also happens to be the company Disney used to operate the Carousel since they bought it a couple of years ago) also have gotten city approval for its 4 star at the corner of Harbor and Disney Way (about 580 rooms), and also Wincome got the approval for converting the Anabella on Katella to a new 634 room 4-star. Though this property is going to primarily focus on the Convention Center, including a new walkway the city agreed to for better access to the convention center. Of course, guests visiting Disney will also be courted, but sounds more of a business like Hotel such as the Hilton and Marriott nearby.

So these things will have more of an impact on hotel rates in the area, but every Hotel owner (Disney and non-Disney) wants to get their rates higher and will take steps to do so. The few that don't, well, check out the popular shows such as Gordon Ramsey's Hotel Hell on FOX of Hotel Impossible on the Travel Channel.

But there will always be a variety of choices in the area as to where to stay (well, more than likely not Vacation Rentals), but a multitude of price ranges, quality ("stars") and different styles and additional amenities. You will have plenty of choices, and it will remain a hard decision to make in regards to those items, plus walking distance, shuttles, etc. Things do change, and as a native Southern Californian who have been a regular visitor to Theme Parks for over 50 years, I can tell you that the Disneyland and surrounding areas is nothing like it was in the 1960's. And the vast majority of the changes have been improvements! Let the process work itself out, as there is still a lot of things in flux in regards to these new proposed changes. Star Wars Land looks to be opening in 2019, and that is a key date to Disney, even thought they haven't committed to a certain date for multiple reasons, including possible construction delays. But it looks like a Spring time opening is the date Disney is focusing on. So plan your next trip, come enjoy the parks and surrounding offerings in the area. All parties (Disney, the city and non-Disney businesses) will be trying to reduce any impact to visiting the area, even though some construction and roadwork will need to happen. But if you look at the impacts of recent changes, such as the major improvements to DCA, the new Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express, and now Star Wars Land, the impact has been low. Yes, some things closed and some roadways/walkways got moved/adjusted, but there was always adjustments made to deal with those issues. Heck, I wish the Disneyland Railroad would be operating... But then again, I have a new rebuilt Steam Engine to enjoy at Knott's Berry Farm. (And yes, I already have gotten a tender ride on it, it just amazing the amount of love and care that was taken to restore it). But when all is said and done, that is the goal of all these projects. Passionate people that care about their businesses such as Disney and the non-Disney Hotel owners, and the city staff that is truly trying to do their best. And I have dealt with many different city governments in the area, and my wife works for the County of Orange, The Anaheim City employees have always impressed me.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/engine-725950-steam-locomotive.html

 

[gary1955]

Gary, the requirement of the bridge height will be set by the city and state vehicle codes, and that is about 16 feet from the roadway to the lower edge of bridge. Add to that the actual bridge and any type of fencing and landscaping added to get to 20 foot height. And that requirement is only over the actual street, so Disney could turn the western side of the ramp away from the Monorail track to start slopping down enough so when it does make the turn onto the property that it will clear under the track. Since the sidewalk and transportation areas are fair game in the area (and possible Bus Stop elimination) the city and Disney can agree to a plan where the slope just at the western edge of Harbor can start going down and not interfere with traffic, and as mentioned earlier, the Disney Cast Member Drop off area does not need the 16 foot clearance. The current shuttles can deal with a 12 foot or lower height. And then the pedestrian areas where Cast Members will walk can be as low as about 8 feet. One option that can happen on Disney property, do some grading and lower the CM shuttle lot level to a lower level than Harbor Blvd, which will allow even more room for the ramp. Disney has done some amazing things in regards to grading in the parks, such as Indiana Jones, Pirates of the Caribbean and the Haunted Mansion and the Railroad tracks, where you don't realize that when you enter, it seems like you are going underground, but that is only under the train tracks, and that most of the attraction is grade level on the outside of the berm. (aka the grade is higher inside the park in some areas). But the Disney number crunchers will look at all the options and make a final decision sometime in the near future, but based on past construction, the Monorail track won't get moved, IMHO.

based on the conceptual information that Disney has released the bridge is going to be close to the full width of the Carousel Inn property. if we run that out over the street and turn it south to slope down in order to get under the monorail that would cover all the southbound lanes, the median strip and about 2 of the northbound lanes.

 

[Darkbeer1]

As stated by Disney in the Q&A article yesterday in the OC Register, Disney has stated >>It’s unclear if the route will change. And Disney says that the design for the main entryway, where the current transportation hub sits, is in progress.<<

The map submitted by Disney to the city is a Proposed map. It can easily be adjusted to not go straight across Harbor, but more angled south from the current Carousel property to the west side of Harbor. As for the height requirements for Vehicle Codes, many bridges have been marked "low overhead", so they could do that for the right lane of Southbound Harbor, which will be used for the Disney CM Shuttles with the lower height requirement, but still allow taller vehicles to use the left lanes to travel under the bridge. There are many options available to the city and Disney to come to an agreement. But based on History, such as Disney deciding to not move the Monorail tracks for building DCA and Downtown Disney, and instead work around the current tracks, also the same issue when they redid Tomorrowland over the last decade or so, the costs of track changes is high, and since the attraction has been become a "secondary" attraction similar to the Disneyland Monorail, it doesn't get the attention inside the company as compared to something like a new DCA area expansion gets.

Rebuilding the outer fence on the west side of Harbor wouldn't cost much (compared to other options), and there is room to let the city take over a small section of the land for a rerouted sidewalk. But when it comes down to it, the decisions have not been made, the process has just started and any final decision hasn't been made. But Disney has always been focused on costs of things, especially over the last few decades, but it started with Walt Disney when he built Disneyland, such as saving trees already on the land, and planning attractions around those trees, and using buildings already on property.

Will the track be moved? I have no idea, and based on what I know, nobody really does, including folks that work for Disney. Are there options that won't require the change of track, clearly yes based on what Disney has stated publically. We will know much more over the next few months and years.

And by the way, I am a big Monorail fan, have ridden them in many different cities, gotten special rides and backstage tours (The Las Vegas Control center is amazing, since they use driverless Monorails). Alas, I just don't see Disney spending the money for a track change and will try and lower the costs of the new Eastern Gateway Project any way they can. Heck the rumored moving sidewalks have already disappeared....

 

[VandVsmama]

As other posters have pointed out, all of this at this point is speculation. While some folks might have inside information based on connections with the OC Register or Anaheim city government, until I see an official announcement, press release, or another OC Register news article on the topic, I'm considering all of our opinions expressed here to be just that....opinions and predictions. Including my own.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Ok, if you look at the map Disney submitted on page one (Green Colored area), plus the City of Anaheim Planning Commission website (DEV2016-00014), what is going in front of the Planning commission is the EAST Side of Harbor project, and the boundary ends at the end of the ramp on the east side of Harbor. It does not cover the actual bridge or any work being done on the West Side, the map Disney submitted clearly states that the West side of Harbor section of the drawing is not "Not a part of the CUP and Final Plan - Included for Reference Only". (CUP - Conditional Use Permit). So all Disney is doing currently is to get approval for Phase 1 of the project, which is the East Side area, as that has to be done and available for use before most of the West Side of the project is completed.

So the bridge isn't even on the plate yet, and how it would effect the Monorail.

 

[Indiana Scott]

As other posters have pointed out, all of this at this point is speculation. While some folks might have inside information based on connections with the OC Register or Anaheim city government, until I see an official announcement, press release, or another OC Register news article on the topic, I'm considering all of our opinions expressed here to be just that....opinions and predictions. Including my own.

Good advice, since those same sources on another website have been completley wrong.

 

[Darkbeer1]

OK, I am currently watching the local news here in Anaheim, and somebody fell to their death today after jumping a fence similar to the current one on Harbor Blvd near Disneyland. Now this was at a Park in San Pedro next to a cliff. But if you also look at the news stories about Pokeman Go! and deaths you can see what might happen.

Please don't even think about playing "Frogger", it is not worth risking your life or any of your family/friends/children. Follow the signage and don't Jaywalk. If you walk in the area, don't use both earbuds or stare at your smartphone. This way you can see where you are going, and hear what is going around (and with one ear bud, you can still listen to your music or whatever other thing you are listening to). As they say, safety first.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Good news for Pizza Press fans, today's newspaper is reporting that the local chain is opening 18 new locations in the next few months. So while the first one on Harbor is being forced to close, there is a very high likelihood they will find something nearby.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/restaurant-373715-openings-list.html

 

[az4boys]

I know a lot of other people have already said this, but just looking at the map is depressing. Total walking distance to the gate is a huge factor in where we stay. It looks like most people who stay offsite will have to walk at least an extra half mile each time they enter or exit the park. That really adds up! What is the point of the Candy Cane shuttle if it drops you off behind the harbor motels? Plus, "across the street" won't mean anything if there isn't a cross walk by Ihop. The motels between Manchester and Disney Way will be less appealing as those customers will have to walk farther too.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I know a lot of other people have already said this, but just looking at the map is depressing. Total walking distance to the gate is a huge factor in where we stay. It looks like most people who stay offsite will have to walk at least an extra half mile each time they enter or exit the park. That really adds up! What is the point of the Candy Cane shuttle if it drops you off behind the harbor motels? Plus, "across the street" won't mean anything if there isn't a cross walk by Ihop. The motels between Manchester and Disney Way will be less appealing as those customers will have to walk farther too.

I truly understand, and some places will be "winners" and some losers, but the same thing happened when Disneyland was converted from a one park location to a Resort location. Roads were moved, a bridge over West Street (and the portion re-named Disneyland Drive) for Downtown Disney/DLH was added.

Also the Orange County improvments on Interstate 5, and the requirement that many things had to be torn down (Including part of HoJo's).

The current project is directly related to the DCA improvements already made, and the upcoming Star Wars and Marvel Lands and increased attendance and traffic.

So every guest gets two larger parks, more attractions and an overall better experience.

But there are trade-offs, and in this case is the need to make changes on Harbor Boulevard between Manchester and Disney Way, add new walkways and a new bridge (and remove other options).

The goal is overall improvement, and the city has the final say, and Disney is the 800 pound Gorilla that has a bigger voice than the non-Disney business in the area. Is that right? Good question, but in reality it is the truth.

But the process has just started and many changes can be made, the Planning Commission calendar shows that the staff reports will be released around September 9th.

http://anaheim.net/DocumentCenter/Home/View/2004

Also note, the submitted plan is just the work Disney wants to do on the East Side of Harbor, it does not cover the actual bridge, the west side conversion of the current Transportation Hub, or the work that the city plans to do to the actual streets and sidewalks that they own and control.

There is a hint on the submitted map that was shown on page one of the thread, and that is the conversion of the Sidewalks on the West Side of Harbor from Disney Way to the current "IHOP" area crosswalk to a new shuttle station. Right now there is a set of sidewalks and the taxi stand, which would be removed for the new area. But as stated, is only for "reference use". Also the fact the current "Walk of Stars" (current sidewalk) is no longer mentioned by the city or that new applications are accepted.

All we really know today, that the Walt Disney Company agreed to build the new Parking Structure and Eastern Gateway as part of a deal to get a guarantee of the city of Anaheim to not charge an admission tax for 30 years for a promise of at least $1 Billion in new infrastructure being spent by the company on the Disneyland Resort in 2015. (Which matches up as to when Disney bought the Carousel Inn and Suites).

Only time will tell, but yes, as of today, I would say those Motels, Hotels, Restaurants and Shops on the East Side of Harbor between Manchester and Disney Way will be mainly losers in the overall plan.

Sometime life just sucks, eh?

 

[ParkHopper1]

I know a lot of other people have already said this, but just looking at the map is depressing. Total walking distance to the gate is a huge factor in where we stay. It looks like most people who stay offsite will have to walk at least an extra half mile each time they enter or exit the park. That really adds up! What is the point of the Candy Cane shuttle if it drops you off behind the harbor motels? Plus, "across the street" won't mean anything if there isn't a cross walk by Ihop. The motels between Manchester and Disney Way will be less appealing as those customers will have to walk farther too.

Sorry, your "depression" is misguided...everyone is in a tizzy that they will HAVE to walk through the new Eastern Gateway transportation center to enter the park. Where is everyone getting this from???? Just based on speculation?

In fact, the management of HOJO has said just the OPPOSITE that in their discussions with Disney they were assured there would still be a Harbor Blvd crossing and was confirmed in the OC register Q&A piece.

I am all for brainstorming how things will get implemented, but sheesh, settle down people!

 

[DaveNinja]

If the hotels on harbor that back up to the new pathway/parking area are allowed to create gates in the back of their property, the increase in walking distance will be minimal. You also wont have to deal with waiting for the light on harbor

 

[Darkbeer1]

The issue is WHERE the crosswalk(s) might be. Looking at the documents released by Disney in regards to its application for permission to make the changes on the East Side of Harbor from the city, it does look like the current main crosswalk will be removed near the "IHOP", Park Vue Inn and BWPPPI&S. That has not been officially decided, along with being able to cross at Disney Way to access the park. (The Disney submitted map shows a new walkway going east to the Pumbaa structure and new sidewalk).

Disney did meet with the owners of HoJo's, the Courtyard and landlords of Mimi's Café (same company), and was told that the current plan would not impact the Manchester crossing on Harbor close to their land will remain open, and that that as part of a plan to be decided in the future in regards to the changes of current Transportation Hub, Cast Member entrance to Harbor Pointe and current Taxi Stand on the West side will include some sort of guest security check as part of those changes. But that still has to be approved by the city of Anaheim.

So it is NOT the opposite and much of the changes will be made.

Will the Monorail Track be moved???? Even Disney won't say.

A lot is in flux, but based on what has been released (but not approved) that is the current situation.

 

[az4boys]

Sorry, your "depression" is misguided...everyone is in a tizzy that they will HAVE to walk through the new Eastern Gateway transportation center to enter the park. Where is everyone getting this from???? Just based on speculation?

In fact, the management of HOJO has said just the OPPOSITE that in their discussions with Disney they were assured there would still be a Harbor Blvd crossing and was confirmed in the OC register Q&A piece.

I am all for brainstorming how things will get implemented, but sheesh, settle down people!

You don't need to attack me simply because I look at the map differently than you do. Contrary to what you assumed, I don't believe that everyone who stays on Harbor will have to walk through the Eastern Gateway. In fact, believe Disney has specifically said that they do not. But getting dropped off at a transportation hub behind the Harbor motels is a lot farther walk than getting dropped off at a transportation hub right next to the esplanade. Plus, if you are staying right across the street and have to walk north or south to get to a cross walk, it is farther. Out of all the hotels/motels we have stayed at, or even considered staying at, the walk is farther. I think I'm allowed to be sad about that.

 

[Darkbeer1]

az4boys, I truly understand, when I go travelling, I do try and pick lodging that is close to my main reason(s) for visiting the area. And that also takes into consideration if I am driving (I still prefer to try and leave the car in the parking lot and walk/use public transit) or fly.

One example, if visiting San Diego, one of the things I would think about is access to the San Diego Trolley rail system.

And planning a trip to the Disneyland in late 2017 or later, it is a consideration that guests will need to make.

The ART shuttles, private shuttles and taxis/uber/lyft are going to be moved farther away, that is a given. Disney is at least trying to ease the issue by buying the Carousel Inn, building the bridge, making the Security process easier for the new hub, plus the new Pumbaa Parking Structure guests, even if it adds a bit of a walk. (And this is JUST my opinion, adds a very small amount of the total amount of walking the entire day when visiting the park(s), heck we are talking about the same distance as walking down Main Street or going between the two parks turnstiles.)

 

[Darkbeer1]

If the hotels on harbor that back up to the new pathway/parking area are allowed to create gates in the back of their property, the increase in walking distance will be minimal. You also wont have to deal with waiting for the light on harbor

Disney did state in the recent Orange County Register article that they have no plans to create an access point behind the hotels and motels on Harbor.

So that leaves the new Gateway behind the Grand Legacy and next to the Pumbaa Structure, or on the north end, next to the Quality Inn on Manchester to access the bridge.

The ART system might add a route to take the current hotel guests to the bridge as one option, but that has not been decided yet.

Plus the Hotels on Harbor will be able to have their voice heard when the city's Planning Commission holds its Public hearing that might cause Disney to allow some sort of additional access.

 

[5forMickey]

Will the Monorail Track be moved???? Even Disney won't say.

Oh how I hope and pray........in fact, I hope they put it back in the Marina Tower of the Disneyland Hotel......please, please, please