New Parking Structure/Pedestrian Bridge Question

Ok, to respond to some of the last few posts.

The current Crosswalk and Traffic Light next to the Park Vue Inn will NOT close until the entire Bridge project is finished and open, currently scheduled for sometime in 2018 (Disney's goal is prior to the Star Wars Land opening). Only when the new access is available, will the city start the process of removing the crosswalk, traffic light and extending the current Median on Harbor Blvd.

Yes, it is the City of Anaheim that wants the changes made to Harbor Boulevard. The city has been working with Disney to get this and other improvements in the area done.

As for the improvements made to the Anaheim Resort District since the 1990's has been a major push of the City of Anaheim, and worked with Disney to get things done. But it was the CITY that wanted the sign and street improvements, and forced Disney to pay for a lot of it, though much of the current funding comes from the Hotel Taxes guests pay if staying in The Anaheim Resort District (and now the new Garden Grove Hotel district) in regards to upkeep of the area. But it truly is the city of Anaheim pushing for most of this, and for Disney to get permission, they have to go along with the city's requests in regards to control vehicle/pedestrian flow in the area.

As for Hotel rates, yes, you will see changes made in 2018 and beyond (and maybe sooner), as some Hotels/Motels see an increase due to their location in regards to the moving of the Pedestrian Entrances, but only time will tell.

As for closing Harbor boulevard, NEVER will happen, it is a major Boulevard for the area, and the city will never give up its rights
 
One thing that might happen in 2017, that the sidewalk on the East side of Harbor next to the Carousel Inn might need to be closed due to construction, so that means to those on the north side (Fairfield Inn, McDonald's. Panera Bread, the Courtyard and Mimi's Café guests) will be forced to use the Manchester Traffic Light/Crosswalk, and those staying on the south, such as the Tropicana, BWPPPI&S and Park Vue will not have easy access to the three restaurants mentioned. But the businesses will more than likely get the city to make sure the closures are only for short periods of time during the actual work above the street, and remain open much of the time
 
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I see a lot of things being posted here as facts when they are either opinion or just plain wrong. Please folks, lets not treat this like MC.
 
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I find this all very discouraging. It's a great deal of our entire Disney experience to stay right across the street and have a short, quick walk to and from the parks. The entire idea of being directly across the street and having Disney erect a fence so that you can't cross is just mean sprited to me and is the exact oposite of "Disney magic".
We have started taking fewer trips to DLR and I see that continuing with this kind of attitude towards guests.

Agreed, but, I started thinking to myself that the main crosswalk that we use now it by no means the only only crosswalk on harbor. So I was looking at a google map of the area and I realized that just a bit further down (Where Grand Legacy at the park is at Disney way) there is a cross street with a stop light and...A CROSS WALK! We can cross down there. It does add to the walk but not by as much at walking to Hojo or walking back from the new transportation center (I didnt see the actual distance I just eye balled it and it looks better to me).
 
OK, I did have a brain fart and meant the EAST side of Harbor in front of the Carousel, My Bad.

As for the corner of Disney Way and Harbor Boulevard, there are planned changes that are part of this new project, and also the conversion of the Anaheim Plaza to a new Four Star Hotel, and that the city has plans to make changes to the corner, along with other changes on Disney Way from the I-5 to Harbor to improve traffic/pedestrian flow in the area, and that includes trying to get folks to use the new Pedestrian Entrance behind the Grand Legacy on Disney Way. One plan is to remove two of the four crosswalks at the corner, and also possibly close the sidewalk on the west side of Harbor (Disneyland side) from Disney Way north to near Harbor Pointe, the original CM entrance area. But these and everything in this thread are just proposed ideas (though Disney did promise to build the new Parking Structure as part of the deal with the city last year to not charge an admission tax for at least 30 years). All these changes are subject to public approval though the city of Anaheim. The news article that started this thread reported on the filing of documents by Disney to the city for review, and more than likely have a hearing on September 19th at City Hall. As for the changes in regards to the traffic (vehicle/pedestrian) flow, that is handled directly by the city, though they can require the permit filers (Disney, Wincome (Anaheim Plaza) and the new JW Marriott at the corner of Disney Way and Clementine) to make changes to its driveways and access points, and also require payments to help cover the costs. So there will be multiple hearings and decisions to be made over the next year or two to come up with the final decisions. But I can assure you, the city's Traffic and Transportation division has been working with all three companies mentioned above since the projects have been proposed, and is trying to do its best to improve the traffic in the area for everyone, locals and tourists. This is very similar to Las Vegas and how the city got many Pedestrian Bridges built on the Strip to improve traffic flow and eliminate ground level crosswalks.

So don't expect to use the current Disney Way/Harbor Blvd crosswalk after sometime in 2018, though the walk won't be that much longer, as all you will need to do is walk to the back of the Grand Legacy to the new entrance.
 
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One more interesting fact, the current Anaheim/OC Walk of Stars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaheim/Orange_County_Walk_of_Stars has been removed from the City of Anaheim website, and is no longer accepting applications. The area is the city owned crosswalk on the west side of Harbor Blvd. between Disney Way and the current Main Pedestrian Entrance, and is where the proposed new drop off zone is located for the Toy Story Parking Lot Buses and new ADA shuttle from the Eastern Gateway on Manchester.
 
Kindermouse, one big issue, how do you measure the distance between a Hotel/Motel and the Parks Entrance, a fellow reporter of mine years ago decided on using the Hotel Lobby/check-in to the center of the Esplanade (Star) as a fair gauge. Now this can be misleading, for example, the Disneyland Hotel has three towers, and can add about a 1/4 of a mile in addition if staying at the Frontier Tower, same with the Grand Californian. Also the Howard Johnson Plaza Hotel (aka HoJo's), the back tower also adds additional distance. Then you also need to take things into consideration, for example, the Paradise Pier Hotel is well known for its lack of Elevators and how slow they are. Also you do need to think about if they offer shuttles, and what type. Disney Hotels do not offer the option, they want you to walk through Downtown Disney and spend money. In the city of Anaheim, all private shuttles are not allowed, though the Candy Cane Inn and Anaheim Majestic Garden Hotel were Grandfathered and can still operate their own, so long as they don't need a major Building Permit, in which case, they will have to switch to the ART system. ART was designed to reduce traffic and to get "clean air" credits from the State and Federal Government. ART has expanded and does serve other nearby cities, but Hotels are not required to use them. So a few Hotels on/near Harbor in Garden Grove opt to run their own shuttle instead.

I am going to use an approximate measure, based on my knowledge and show you a few walking maps.

Let's start with the Frontier Tower at the Disneyland Hotel, about .56 of a mile.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6931216

Now, let's look at a couple of the "lucky" Hotels near the new transportation Hub.

The Quality Inn is .57 of a mile using the new bridge.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6931224

And now the Grand Legacy at the Park, .72 of a mile using the bridge.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6931226

So it does come down to a lot of things, the basic cost of the lodging, what benefits do you get (Breakfast, WiFi, etc), the quality of the room, do you want a kitchen (extended stay type of hotel), do they charge for parking (if you have a vehicle), resort fees, style of Hotel/Motel (basic to deluxe or in the middle), what is easy access from your Hotel, for example, the Disney Hotels give you no real option to go off-property to a restaurant, drug store (Food/drink) and other stores or other things that can save you money. The time it takes to walk/use the shuttle, also what other things do you want to do in the area besides the Disneyland Resort, many folks want to explore the area, including other Theme Parks, Museums, Sporting Events, Shopping Malls, etc. Without a car, the Disney Hotels are a poor choice. The Harbor Drive Hotels have access to the ART system, plus the OCTA and LA Metro busses, and private shuttles. Also more choices in things like Taxis, as Disney has a contract with Yellow Cab to only allow them to pick up guests on property.

I do understand that the proposed changes will make some people unhappy, but as both a big Theme/Amusement Park fan, and a resident of the city of Anaheim, I do understand the need to address the traffic issues and why Disney and the city are addressing the issues. And since I have seen folks say they walk about 20 miles or more a day in the parks (sometimes less if only visiting one of the two parks in a day), the amount of "extra" distance is small. One quick example, just walking down Main Street is about 1/6th of a mile.

Good luck in making your personal decisions and having many more trips to the area.

Keep in mind, using the pedestrian ramp will add to the total distance walked. It'll look one distance on a map, but a 400 foot ramp up and down is 800 more feet of walking to get to or from the park, and it's graded (not flat). Right now, I don't have to climb a hill to get to any of the harbor hotels. Regardless of how close your hotel is to that crossing, it's going to feel long to go uphill after a full day in the parks, kwim?

If they do add another part of DTD to the other side, it would be REALLY nice if there was some sort of bypass to cross from one to the other without going through security on both ends. Possibly a tunnel or overpass or something that allows access to the other side of DTD but not to the park entrances. As far as connecting both sides and supporting locals and such to come and eat/shop at DTD, it would make sense to make both sides easily accessible. Right now all the parking is on one side too, and the new structure won't allow access to DTD if it is built on that side. So not sure how they'll make that accessible to pedestrians from the harbor side.
 
Dahila, while your ideas are interesting, I just don't see the project will be built due to the cost. Tunneling is very expensive, and if they want to build an overpass over the Esplanade (Security area), they will have to deal with some height requirements that Disney and the city has agreed to regarding sight lines from the parks. Pretty much still expensive and not worth the costs to Disney. Disney agreed to pay for the Bridge over Harbor Blvd and the new Pummba Parking Strurcture as part of its Billion Dollar investment to get to the city to agree to not charge an Admission Tax for at least the next 30 years in 2015.

Looks like you will still need to go through security check both coming and going to Downtown Disney from the east and the Harbor Boulevard area.

I should add that the West side of Downtown Disney will have parking lot changes due to the 4th Hotel that Disney has announced. The proposed plan will take some, if not most of the parking away from its current spot. The Simba Lot behind the Paradise Pier is getting a lot more use for Downtown Disney, and Disney can easily move the current Cast Member and DTD Employees section to other lots. such as the proposed Parking structure for Cast Member parking on the North East corner of Harbor and Ball, currently a ground level lot.

Seems like Disney is looking to ask the DTD guests to walk more, and was one of the issues that had the House of Blues move from Downtown Disney to the Anaheim GardenWalk. (Another main issue was an expanded capacity inside the building).

But I have been told by many Disney CM's/DTD employees that the area is not a big priority for Disney, as the profits it generates isn't that high.

As for the possible East Side expansion, Disney is much more focused on expanding DCA and Marvel Land. The possible few shops near the Costuming building will basically be a Food location and a Disney owned small World of Disney shop annex, to try and get folks coming/going over the bridge to spend a few more dollars on property.
 
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I find this all very discouraging. It's a great deal of our entire Disney experience to stay right across the street and have a short, quick walk to and from the parks. The entire idea of being directly across the street and having Disney erect a fence so that you can't cross is just mean sprited to me and is the exact oposite of "Disney magic".

I get this having visited recently, stayed at DI&S and enjoyed the short walk. But I remember my first visit in 1997 I think it was and actually stayed at the Carousel Inn back then DCA didn't exist it was a parking lot and those of us at the Carousel Inn and the other Harbour hotels along there would walk out of the hotel wait for a shuttle that took us down Harbour onto Katella, through the car park to a shuttle area which I think would possibly be roughly where the entrance to DCA is today. I remember being at the front of the Carousel back then looking across the road to the big DL fence and thinking I'm so close yet feel so far lol!
 
So if I understand this correctly, you will still be able to enter the resort on foot from Harbor, but if you're staying at the hotels on the west side of Harbor, you will need to walk north to Manchester or south to Disney Way in order to cross Harbor. If I have that right, it is going to really affect those hotels, especially places like the BWPPI which at this point has some of if not the closest rooms to the main park gates. BWPPI was always our go to hotel for that reason, so it will affect our travel plans.
 
So if I understand this correctly, you will still be able to enter the resort on foot from Harbor, but if you're staying at the hotels on the west side of Harbor, you will need to walk north to Manchester or south to Disney Way in order to cross Harbor. If I have that right, it is going to really affect those hotels, especially places like the BWPPI which at this point has some of if not the closest rooms to the main park gates. BWPPI was always our go to hotel for that reason, so it will affect our travel plans.

Maybe some of these hotels will make changes for the better to entice people to still stay with them when the walk doubles/triples.
 
Maybe some of these hotels will make changes for the better to entice people to still stay with them when the walk doubles/triples.

I suspect most people wouldn't even realize until they got there. They would probably just look at the map and assume they could walk across the street.

I think there's only a handful of hotels that will be affected ultimately.

According to the Google Maps "measure distance" feature, walking down to Disney Way and crossing Harbor vs crossing the street directly across the current crosswalk:
BWPPI - 291 ft vs 1700 ft, +1400 ft. - the big loser here, no denying that, although total distance from the entrance of the hotel to the middle of the Esplande is still 2860 ft, or about 0.54 miles, so still walkable.
Desert Inn - 367 ft vs 1548 ft, +1181 ft
Best Western Anaheim Inn - 519 ft vs 1417 ft, +898 ft
Grand Legacy should be minimally affected I think since it's on the corner of Disney way and Harbor.

The hotels north of the walkway - the effect will depend on the actual design. The Fairfield Inn and the Courtyard Theme Park Entrance are actually set relatively far back from Harbor due to their parking lots. They may be able to access the new walkway relatively easily depending on the setup. HoJo will be unaffected as mentioned because they can just cross Harbor at Manchester.

If they do end up getting rid of that crosswalk in the middle of Harbor, they really should erect some kind of barrier to prevent people from accessing that entrance on Harbor, as it appears they have planned. It's a public safety issue and a traffic flow issue IMO, not a greedy Disney issue. It will be much safer for people to walk a little farther and go to the intersection or the elevated walkway if that crosswalk is removed. However, if people see that they can make that entrance by jaywalking (which is indeed illegal in California), they will cross there anyway.

I agree with @Darkbeer1 they will never close Harbor, nor should they. It would cause huge problems for the traffic in the area, since it is a major roadway in Orange County as mentioned.

I do think, though, they should try to make the elevated walkway as easily accessible as possible, which would mean including access from Harbor (which is apparently not currently planned, though maybe there is a good reason for this).
 
OK, look a this photo link that GoBears provided earlier in this thread. It is the view from the corner of Harbor Blvd and Manchester, looking south that shows the current fence that runs down the median of Harbor.

https://goo.gl/maps/FGa3goPgDm32

The proposal is to make the median and fence on Harbor one continuous segment from Manchester to Disney Way on Harbor Boulevard after the Bridge Project is completed and open for guests to use.

Also the city will add some small fences and signage at the corner or former corner where they are eliminating crosswalks. These are very common in California and elsewhere, and will direct guests to the nearest crossing.

And for Disney Way, if the city gets its wish, they will close 2 of the four crosswalks at the corner of Harbor and Disney Way, leaving the one between the Grand Legacy and current Anaheim Plaza Hotel on the east side, and then one that crosses Harbor between the Anaheim Plaza and the sidewalk that goes from Katella Avenue to Disney Way that goes past DCA, the Candy Cane Inn, and the shops at the corner of Harbor and Katella (7-11/ABC Store), and build small fences and signage on the sidewalk at the other corners that will not allow crossings. Also the elimination of the current City owned crosswalk where the Walk of Stars is currently will prevent folks from walking in the area that will become the new Disney Shuttle drop off (current Taxi Stand area). Since the new Shuttle Stop has the Buses coming down Disney Way, and just crossing Harbor to enter the area will cut down delays of needing to have to wait for the Pedestrians to cross. The west side of Harbor at Disney Way is also an important access point that needs to remain open for many reasons, the road is used by Disney to get folks from Disneyland Drive to Disney Way and then make a right turn onto Harbor and to the Toy Story Lot, plus the need for emergency vehicles and Disney owned vehicles to access the same road.

Also the plan does eliminate 3 different driveways that access Harbor Blvd, the two at the current Taxi Stand that will become the new Shuttle Drop off area, which is designed with a turnaround and send vehicles back to Disney Way as shown on the map on page 1 of this thread and the current exit road from the Transportation Hub that the ART buses use currently.

That will leave two driveways, the entrance to Cast Member Drop Off area will be the one where the ART buses currently enter, but access will only be for approved vehicles that are driving Southbound on Harbor, and make a right into the area, and then an exit driveway where the current exit to the area is, which will also only allow a right turn onto Harbor, once again, going southbound on Harbor towards Disney Way. And then if the city can get the bus stop moved off of Harbor Blvd onto Manchester/Clementine, that also will help with traffic flow on Harbor. These are things the city wants, and it seems like Disney is agreeing to them to keep the city happy (they just got the big guarnantee of the lack of an Admission Tax being charged by the city for 30 years, a tax credit for building the 4th Hotel near the Disneyland Hotel and to get projects like this approved). And there is still the chance that the non-Disney businesses can force changes to the plan through the public approval process which really hasn't started yet.
 
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Let me add, I think that the most likely thing that might get changed is more pedestrian access to the new bridge, in which the current non-Disney land owners (the Hotels/Motels and Restaurants on Harbor) will be able to use the back (east end) of their property to build a pedestrian gate to get to the new crosswalk that runs behind many of the properties between Disney Way and the Carousel. This will more than likely have most of the costs paid for by the property owners, as they would be responsible to build these new access points. Though in reality, it wouldn't be too much, though they might have to eliminate some parking and maybe even a room or two to get a proper walkable gateway.

Also, I think no matter what, based on the map Disney provided the city, that better access for Pedestrians will have to be made off of Manchester, basically where the Quality Inn is, such as a extra sidewalk on the north side of the project to get to the new bridge.

Also, what hasn't been talked about much is the work that will be needed on Manchester/Clementine and the left turn lane onto Manchester from Harbor. While the corner of Harbor and Manchester got some improvements and widening as the Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express owners had to pay for them to get the city's approval, it looks like the left turn lane on Harbor southbound at Manchester will need to be expanded due to the higher vehicle flow expected.

The corner of Disney Way and Clementine has recently also have been improved and widened, and the look of the new entrance into the Pummba Parking Structure is well designed and should have minimal improvements needed on the public roadways. But the exit to the structure, on the north side of the building next to the current U.S.C.I.S. (Which is where foreign citizens deal with Asylum requests in the Greater Los Angeles area). They will need to make the right turn out of the structure onto Clementine and then a left onto Disney Way to get back to the freeway easily and to help avoid people to make a left turn towards Manchester and Harbor. Also, Disney will have to help pay for the widening of Mancheser/Clementine on the eastern edge of their property, which also might require Disney to give up a small portion of the land for the widening to the city.

As stated, the process has just started, and none of the details have been finalized, though many things have already been agreed to in prior deals with the city by Disney.
 
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And for Disney Way, if the city gets its wish, they will close 2 of the four crosswalks at the corner of Harbor and Disney Way, leaving the one between the Grand Legacy and current Anaheim Plaza Hotel on the east side, and then one that crosses Harbor between the Anaheim Plaza and the sidewalk that goes from Katella Avenue to Disney Way that goes past DCA, the Candy Cane Inn, and the shops at the corner of Harbor and Katella (7-11/ABC Store), and build small fences and signage on the sidewalk at the other corners that will not allow crossings.

If they get rid of the street crossing on the corner of Disney Way and Harbor, it definitely makes for a long walk from BWPPI. Walking from BWPPI all the way down to Disney Way, then back up to the new walkway would take 3320 ft just to cross the street. I'm sure BWPPI and the other hotels there will be fighting hard for a back entrance into that walkway.

DLR Eastern Expansion edit.jpg
 
One option I just thought of, after reading/seeing the latest Disney Dad post in this thread. Maybe the Hotels on Harbor can ask and get a new ART Shuttle bus route, in where a clockwise bus route goes from the new Transportation Hub on Manchester, going down Manchester/Clementine and have stops at the JW Marriott and Garden Walk turn right onto Katella, stop at the Hotel Indigo, and then a right going northbound on Harbor, stopping at the Castle Inn, the new 4-Star Hotel where the Anaheim Plaza Inn is, the Park Vue Inn. the Fairfield Inn turn on Manchester and stop near the Courtyard/Holiday Inn Express and then back to the new Hub. This would match up with the current ART goal of most routes being 20 minutes in length and limited stops. It would be an option instead of relying on just walking to the parks, especially those with mobility issues.

And I love how Disney worded its answers in the OC Register article Astylla just linked to (Q&A). Read them and see that everything I have mentioned as proposed changes are not disagreed with, maybe the biggest one is Disney saying that they won't allow easier access to the pedestrian walkaway from the east end of the nearby Hotels/Motels. That is what Disney wants, but might have to agree to as part of the Planning Commission and possible City Council reviews of the project in the coming months.

Also, the wording in regards to The Pizza Press, if you read Disney's response and the answer The Pizza Press has placed on Social Media, the lease ends in April, there is nothing preventing Disney and The Pizza Press agreeing to a buy out of the lease prior to April, if Disney feels they need to remove the building earlier than that for the new project. Maybe the Pizza Press can get a deal for a new location as part of the agreement.

Just because you close down a building, such as the main Carousel Inn building and the secondary building that houses the Pizza Press, you just can't tear it down the next day. You first have to allow the removal of any valuable items from the structure and that includes things like copper piping and other scrap materials that can be recycled and sold, then you have to an environmental assessment, in where you look for things that might be called "Hazardous Waste", since the buildings are quite old. They will have to be carefully removed and handled with properly before they can bring the bulldozers in.

Let me add that much of the information I have posted have come from insider information, which includes some of the non-Disney Hotel/Motel owners and their representatives, the city of Anaheim employees, especially the planning and traffic divisions, though also city council contacts, and the Walt Disney Company Cast Members, some fairly high up, and also some recently retired ones, who can be a bit more open as to what they can say, even if it is "off the record".

And things are always subject to change, for example the road on the south side of DCA was originally planned to become a tramway route to the Simba Parking Lot behind the Paradise Pier, with a stop for the Convention Center gate on Katella and actually ran for a bit, But between the city, the state of California and Disney, it was agreed to no longer operate it for many reasons, including the fact a tram like is used for the Mickey and Friends structure can't cross a public roadway (Disneyland Drive), they used to get a waiver that the State did not want to give anymore, and forcing Disney to use vehicles like the Public Buses used for the Toy Story Lot, which does meet California Vehicle codes. So the city agreed to it (they wanted the Convention Center stop, since the city runs the center, and required it as part of the agreement made in the 1990's), and instead agreed to the current use of taking cars off of Katella and using it to get cars from a closed Mickey and Friends structure to the Toy Story Lot. And the costs are not cheap, in 2014, Disney paid over $5 Million in direct costs to the city of Anaheim to pay for the Police officers that are used to enhance park safety, and to control traffic on the public roadways and intersections that go in/off of Disney owned property.

So any project is subject to change, even after initially agreed to.
 
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If they get rid of the street crossing on the corner of Disney Way and Harbor, it definitely makes for a long walk from BWPPI. Walking from BWPPI all the way down to Disney Way, then back up to the new walkway would take 3320 ft just to cross the street. I'm sure BWPPI and the other hotels there will be fighting hard for a back entrance into that walkway.

It would be quicker, though still a pain, to cross at HOJO or the potential crosswalk at Disney Way.
 
agamble, the city wants to close the current Disney Way pedestrian crosswalk and sidewalk to Disney property on the west side of the street. So the two main options would be to walk up (North) Harbor to Manchester and cross there and walk back south on Harbor to the smaller new gate, or walk to Disney Way and use the new entrance, as shown on Disney Dad's map.

But we are looking ahead using some inside information and some prior agreements that the city has made, and that many meetings/hearings will be held with public input (which includes the non-Disney owned businesses in the area and locals who use the roads/sidewalks and public transportation in the area) to get the final decision that will made. But we are looking to at least sometime in 2018 that these proposed traffic flow changes will happen on Harbor Blvd. Of course, there will be construction of the new bridge on Harbor, and work done on Disney Way, Manchester and Clementine in 2017 that will have some impact, but the major impact to guests won't happen until 2018 and/or 2019.

Alas, there are a lot of major differences between the Disneyland Resort and the Walt Disney World Florida property. Walt Disney specifically bought a LOT of extra land to be able to have much more control of what would be allowed in regards to roadways, transportation and building of Hotels. restaurants, shops and related items outside the park gates. Including the creation of the Reedy Creek Improvement District for housing and "city" things, though controlled by Disney. The company decided to get out of running the district and has less influence in the area, but still shows that Walt Disney knew the power government has over private businesses and tried to avoid many of the issues he had to deal with in regards to the City of Anaheim and other governmental regulations.
 













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