new annual pass program BLUES

[jann1033]

And for anyone who says that people come with excuse after excuse why they don't have iot on them - Very simple - Check the computer. Disney has records of all AP holders.

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this was my point i think they already know if you do or do not have a valid pass...does anyone know of anyone first hand who got an ap rate without the pass?( i mean at check in never had a valid ap and checked out still without a valid ap and got the ap rate) or is that an urban myth..

also wonder what you are supposed to do when you can not validate your pass till you get there. i know when they first brought the ap online page you couldn't get on to it without a valid ap. so if that has not changed how is someone who lives 1200 miles away going to get any of the ap rates till they can validate it which is then too late for the trip

 

[clutter]

Disney will end up losing money with me with the new BRP. I'm dangerous with an AP in hand. Granted, I only buy one every other year, but what a year! I get an email from the airlines with cheap rates, call Disney for an AP rate, and we're off for a long weekend! Too many times during the year I own the pass.

Now, I'll get an AP, plan two week-long vacations on either end (as I did before), and no more hopping down for the weekend. (Yesterday there was a great rate on airfare over a long weekend for school in January. Couldn't go, because there was no AP. If Disney got rid of the AP entirely, we'd go from going 8 - 20 days a year to going for a week every three years or so. You can't tell me the revenue they lost on my discounts makes up for all that money I spent.

Actually, maybe Disney won. I did buy into DVC, but I seriously doubt we'll go more than what I have points for (1 week/year in a studio, 1 week every other year in a 1br). As I said, in the past, we'd go for weekend jaunts at least 2 or 3 times with the now-defunct discount.

 

[WDW Poly Princess]

I definitly won't be renewing mine next year unless they change the system. Given that I usually travel solo, the AP rates have always been what made it possible for me to afford to stay in the places I like.

I can't figure out how the new program benifits Disney, it seems like it would just lose them a lot of money? I doubt as many AP holders are going to book spontaneous trips, since you have to reserve 60 days out for discounts. I'm sure I'm not the only AP holder who is changing their resort plans, too (I just can't bring myself to pay $135 for a moderate after being so used to $90). This year I'm just renting from a DVC member instead.

I really hope they change things back soon! With my weird schedule, there's no way I can book 60 days out with nonrefundable deposits, but I am going to *MISS* the WL and Polynesian a LOT this trip!

 

[DrTomorrow]

To all the folks who say things like "People who are Disney 'regulars' should be rewarded for their loyalty" - Disney already does this: it's called an AP. If you pay for about 12 or 13 days of park admission, you get 354 days for free. If there's a better loyalty program out there, I've never heard of it.

Also, as goofy4tink keeps trying to explain, companies offer discounts when they can't sell their products at full price. This was the case for a few years after 9/11. Now, however, virtually all travel-related industries are raising their rates: airlines, hotels, car rentals and, yes, theme parks. If Disney can sell out their resorts without the need for significant discounts - AP or AAA or FL or whatever - then they will reduce or eliminate those discounts.

One other thought: many people make comments suggesting that, even if they offer a great AP discount, Disney still makes money because of all the cash spent on a Disney trip. I wonder, though - are the people who really need to save the $400 on a room for a week going to spend more than that $400 on food & souvies? Just wondering....

 

[boomhauer]

To all the folks who say things like "People who are Disney 'regulars' should be rewarded for their loyalty" - Disney already does this: it's called an AP. If you pay for about 12 or 13 days of park admission, you get 354 days for free. If there's a better loyalty program out there, I've never heard of it.

I'm a passholder, and I love what I get out of it, but that's really not the point. Every theme park, amusement park, sports team, etc offers an annual pass. There are much less expensive annual passholder programs out there - Universal's is much cheaper. Unfortunately for me, I'm a Disney person and don't care for Universal.

Example - I had an AP last year. I spent 31 days in the theme parks. Granted, that only averages out to $13 or so a day, but then, add in the money I spent at the resorts. Even if I only spent $60 a night (it was much more than that), that's still $1,860 I spent on Disney Resorts last year alone.

As for spending $400 on food and souveniers - Easily. I bring down about $1,000 for a weeks trip. All I se that for is food and souveniers - Rest assured, by the end of the week, it's gone.

 

[cdpa4d]

I really don't think the BRP program is that bad. They are allowing us to call CRO from 2:00 to 5:00PM EST. Plus we seem to be getting the discounts sooner than before the old system.

I think some of the rates are pretty good. I just booked the Grand Floridian during Peak season in March for $239 per night + tax. I'm pretty happy about that.

 

[clutter]

To all the folks who say things like "People who are Disney 'regulars' should be rewarded for their loyalty" - Disney already does this: it's called an AP. If you pay for about 12 or 13 days of park admission, you get 354 days for free. If there's a better loyalty program out there, I've never heard of it.

One other thought: many people make comments suggesting that, even if they offer a great AP discount, Disney still makes money because of all the cash spent on a Disney trip. I wonder, though - are the people who really need to save the $400 on a room for a week going to spend more than that $400 on food & souvies? Just wondering....

In the past, in the slower seasons, Disney would offer discounts. First to FL residents, then to AP holders, then, maybe, to the general public. What folks are saying that when Disney did that, us AP holders took it and ran with it. I personally made a number of last minute trips that were inspired by either Disney announcing an AP rate and finding a great airfare, or by an airline announcing a big discount when AP rates were already available. Every penny that I spent was pure gravy for Disney (well, except for the airfare ). It was a room that woul have remained vacant. A hot dog and some princess toys that would have stayed in inventory. Sure, they were 'free' admissions. But the trips wouldn't have happened without the room discount. What we're saying here is that Disney was never going to get $800 out of me for a weekend trip. They would have gotten $500 or $600. Without the discount, they'll get $0. Unless they're 100% occupied during these times, that's lost revenue.

 

[boomhauer]

I really don't think the BRP program is that bad. They are allowing us to call CRO from 2:00 to 5:00PM EST. Plus we seem to be getting the discounts sooner than before the old system.

If this is the case and it can in fact be done without actually having the AP yet, then yes, it's just fine with me. I talked to a CM who got me the AP rate and said "just make sure you have your AP when you check in."

That's all I ask for.

 

[tlbwriter]

I can't figure out how the new program benifits Disney, it seems like it would just lose them a lot of money? I doubt as many AP holders are going to book spontaneous trips, since you have to reserve 60 days out for discounts.

And that's how they're going to make money - because they make more money from occasional or once-in-a-lifetime visitors than they do from more frequent visitors. Think about it. If you know you'll visit WDW 2 or 3 times a year, do you buy every souvenir you love? Do you have to see every attraction and pay for every extra? No. But once-in-a-lifetime visitors are more likely to do that.

 

[WDW Poly Princess]

And that's how they're going to make money - because they make more money from occasional or once-in-a-lifetime visitors than they do from more frequent visitors. Think about it. If you know you'll visit WDW 2 or 3 times a year, do you buy every souvenir you love? Do you have to see every attraction and pay for every extra? No. But once-in-a-lifetime visitors are more likely to do that.

My trips since I started buying AP's have actually been a lot longer than my original "once in a lifetime" trip was. Lower resort rates have meant spending more time on property, which means that WDW is making money on food, tours, special events (like MVMCP, etc.).

 

[arizonacolbys]

And that's how they're going to make money - because they make more money from occasional or once-in-a-lifetime visitors than they do from more frequent visitors. Think about it. If you know you'll visit WDW 2 or 3 times a year, do you buy every souvenir you love? Do you have to see every attraction and pay for every extra? No. But once-in-a-lifetime visitors are more likely to do that.

I also disagree with this - our first trip together in 2000 was only about 7 days & we purchased 5 day hoppers with 2 days not in the parks, so we didn't spend much money on property those days.

Since we started buying AP's 3 years ago, we have averaged 2-3 trips during the length of our AP's & each trip has been at least 10 days long & we go to the parks every day since we have the ability to. This means we spend more at restaurants & on souvenirs in the parks. Since we've already spent the money on our tickets on a previous trip - we feel we have more money to spend on our subsequent trips with the AP's.

Disney has definitely gotten more money out of us since we started investing in AP's. We also would have never gone 3 times last year if we didn't think we already had "free park entry."

 

[tlbwriter]

My trips since I started buying AP's have actually been a lot longer than my original "once in a lifetime" trip was. Lower resort rates have meant spending more time on property, which means that WDW is making money on food, tours, special events (like MVMCP, etc.).

But you're getting a discount on your room, so your longer discounted trip means fewer nights that a non-AP will pay rack rate to stay in that very room. You're paying less than $20 a day to get into the park, when others are paying much more. Yes, you're buying food and souvenirs, but you're also using staff. And the staff get paid the same whether each visitor there paid $20 for their day at the park or $60. Mousekeeping doesn't get paid less to clean your room just because you paid less to stay there. And you're also getting an AP discount on some of those souvenirs and other items, aren't you?

People keep saying "Why aren't they rewarding us for being loyal customers?" Why indeed? It's all about the bottom line. If Disney made more money from an AP holder's visit than they did from someone else's visit, you know darn well they'd be doing anything they could to entice people to buy APs. And they're not, because it's not in their best interest.

 

[boomhauer]

I don't see that.

Granted, on a per day basis, yes, AP holders may be paying less. However, don't you think Disney would prefer to have people in the park paying only $15 a day than not having that person in the park? That person in there at $15 a day, is spending $100 on food and souveniers.

Don't get me wrong - I'm perfectly happy with what I get from my AP. I'll make 3 trips this year, spend over 25 days at the parks, I'm paying just $49 a night in january for ASMovies, get discounts on food and souveniers.

As long as I can book over the phone without any problems, I'm happy as Pooh in a honey tree.

 

[tlbwriter]

Granted, on a per day basis, yes, AP holders may be paying less. However, don't you think Disney would prefer to have people in the park paying only $15 a day than not having that person in the park? That person in there at $15 a day, is spending $100 on food and souveniers.

Yes, they would. But they'd prefer to have a full-price visitor there. That's why they're not going to great lengths to attract AP visitors. Once you buy your pass, they don't really have a lot of incentive to entice you to come back. In fact, they do a lot better if you don't come back at all.

If they really wanted to encourage people to buy APs, they'd do all kinds of suggestive selling. They'd have them out on tables at the resorts, like they do with DVC. When you called to make a reservation, they'd ask "Would you like to save 10% on your resort today?" just like they do when you check out at Target. When you made reservations online, a window would pop up saying "For an extra $200 you could buy an annual pass!" just like Amazon's "You're only $10 away from free shipping" message. They'd be advertising the heck out of the AP instead of the "$1500 Vacation." AP users would find more perks flowing their way, not fewer.

Again, it's the bottom line. They're not trying very hard to get you to come back because you are not their most profitable customer. And they're pretty smart about stuff like that.

 

[Tissa]

People keep saying "Why aren't they rewarding us for being loyal customers?" Why indeed? It's all about the bottom line. If Disney made more money from an AP holder's visit than they did from someone else's visit, you know darn well they'd be doing anything they could to entice people to buy APs. And they're not, because it's not in their best interest.[/QUOTE]

I agree. There must be more money to be made from the packages than from people with AP's or they wouldn't be pushing packages and giving discounts. Disney isn't stupid.

 

[jmclester]

They do a lot better if you don't come back at all???????

Well, mabye if you stayed offsite and bought no food or drinks in the parks but who, with an AP, is going to do that??

An AP is all about getting you back on Disney property as many times as they can. Revenue from resorts, gift shops, restaurants etc far outweighs the "discounted" price of admission (which BTW is not free, it's $420!) In todays MYW terms thats $100 more than the cost of a 10 day never expire hopper. So you need to spend at least 12 days per year in the parks to break even. That's three trips for the avg family.

 

[tlbwriter]

They do a lot better if you don't come back at all???????

That was a joke (hence the ). I meant that if you buy an AP and never come back, they have your money and don't have to do anything else for you, and they can sell your room and your food and your souvenirs to someone who's going to pay full price for them.

An AP is all about getting you back on Disney property as many times as they can. Revenue from resorts, gift shops, restaurants etc far outweighs the "discounted" price of admission (which BTW is not free, it's $420!) In todays MYW terms thats $100 more than the cost of a 10 day never expire hopper. So you need to spend at least 12 days per year in the parks to break even. That's three trips for the avg family.

You know, you can crunch numbers until the cows come home, but it all boils down to one thing... if it were in Disney's best interest for us all to buy APs, they would be offering more incentives to buy an AP. And yet AP holders are complaining that the reverse is happening - AP perks are fewer and smaller and harder to get. AP holders complain that they feel unappreciated. Well, no offense, but to a certain extent, it seems that you are unappreciated. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Disney doesn't act as if they want more AP holders. You could argue for days that AP holders are the best, most lucrative customers who ever stepped foot on Disney property. But if that were the case, Disney would be trying pretty hard to seduce more of us into buying APs, and trying to keep you happy enough to continue buying APs, doncha think?

 

[boomhauer]

In fact, they do a lot better if you don't come back at all.

Again, it's the bottom line. They're not trying very hard to get you to come back because you are not their most profitable customer. And they're pretty smart about stuff like that.

In regards to the first statement - I think that's TOTALLY false. How would they do better if I didn't go back, spend $400 at the resort, and $1,000 on food and souveniers per trip?

You can't look at profit in the travel industry the same way you do in other fields of business.

Who do you think is a more valuable customer:

John who comes once a year, spends $700 for 7 nights at Pop Century, $250 on a 7 day MYW pass and $1,000 on food and souveniers.

----------------------------OR----------------------

Jack who comes 3 times a year, spends $400 on his AP, spends $1,500 on 21 nights at Pop Century, and $3,000 on food and souveniers.

John may average $278 a day versus Jack's $233 a day, but Jack is giving them $4,900 and John is only giving them $1,950.

There is a very good reason they offer incentives with the AP.

 

[tlbwriter]

In regards to the first statement - I think that's TOTALLY false.

Sigh. As I said earlier, in regards to the first statement, it was a joke.

Who do you think is a more valuable customer:

Again, you can crunch numbers and invent straw men and post about how valuable you are to Disney until your fingers bleed. But it doesn't mean anything. If AP holders are more valuable to Disney than non-AP visitors, Disney will encourage people to buy APs. Why is that so hard to understand?

There is a very good reason they offer incentives with the AP.

Yes, there is. But AP holders are complaining, on this thread and others, that they don't feel the incentives are what they used to be. You, yourself complained on this very thread that Disney was not treating the AP holders very well! And now you're saying how well Disney treats AP holders? If Disney makes more money from AP holders, why aren't they trying to sell me one? Why haven't they sent me a single e-mail or postal mailing even mentioning the existence of APs? Do you think it could be because AP holders get a better deal, and Disney makes more money from non-AP holders? Or because Disney is concentrating their marketing efforts on attracting first-time visitors rather than repeat visitors? Nah, that couldn't be it.

 

[boomhauer]

You, yourself complained on this very thread that Disney was not treating the AP holders very well! And now you're saying how well Disney treats AP holders?

I said the new system was lousy - Not the perks of the AP.

Let me ask you something - Have you ever called Disney? You know that question they ask you about how many times since 1998 you've been there? You know the survey's they take in the parks? You know the survey's they send in the mail? Why do you think they do this?

Disney knows the average guest doesn't take more than 1 trip per calendar year, and therefore, will not buy an AP. But for you to say the AP holders are not valuable is just plain wrong. If they weren't valuable, they wouldn't sell the passes.