Crowd Levels Down?

[Brianstl]

This same info about low summer crowds is the same as the past 2 or 3 years. Crowds pickup in the fall with Halloween and Food & Wine.

According TP it is way down from the previous 2 summers.

 

[Brianstl]

I'm at Disney World generally every 3 months or so, since I live a 3 hr drive away and have DVC. The crowds at all the parks have changed since Covid - one of the stranger things I noticed is that often the parks can feel quite packed - negotiating down Main Street or Hollywood Blvd, or stopping at food & drink spots in Epcot, it often feels really packed, shoulder to shoulder at times, and long lines for drinks and food...really very few 'down times' like there used to be where some months would be nearly empty. BUT - ride standby times have been surprisingly low much of the time. I never buy any of the LL passes or extra cost passes for any rides when I go, so if I want to get on a ride, it's walk-up standby only. With few exceptions, I can get onto just about any ride within 30 minutes or less. There have been times where I'll see Haunted Mansion at 50 min, or Space Mountain at 60 min - but skipping it and circling back later in the day, I'll see a 20-40 minute wait time for the same rides. I've seen Kilimanjaro at AK run 60 min on some busy feeling days, then 2 hours later it's 10 minutes.

Also, one of the most packed, crowded feeling parts of Disney World since Covid is usually Disney Springs, especially evenings. It seems like there are a lot of people still coming to the resorts, and the parks, but not trying to cram onto rides all day...or skipping the parks (maybe hitting other theme parks, taking more 'resort days', etc. There have been times I walk into a park and think 'ugh' - this is going to be a packed day and I'm not going to get on any of the rides or get any food...then I actually start pushing through the crowd and find I can hit most of the rides I want and generally get food or drinks just by being flexible on times or locations - I'll pass one quick serve spot that looks way too packed, and find another where only 2-3 people are waiting ahead of me. Skip prime lunch hour, and I can usually score a snack or quick lunch food.

Now, some recent days have been surprisingly nice with park crowds - this Mid-June I was there, and my first day at MK had that packed, crowded street feel but no problems getting on rides...then second day at Epcot, and it was much more wide-open, no heavy crowds milling about, and most rides were almost walk-on (10 minutes or less for everything except Frozen, Galaxy, and Soarin...and even Soarin was only 15 min and Frozen was 40). The only thing that felt a little more crowded were the food booths, that all seemed to have lines of 20+ people. If you just wanted a beverage, most of those spots like Oasis and Refreshment Port were 5 people or less.

Next trip is mid-September during Food & Wine - generally I find the same for all parks in September - they feel packed, but it's more just people milling about the common spaces - and any rides with long waits will fall and rise throughout the day - so if it's long, circle back in an hour or two. Epcot will feel a lot more crowded of course, and all the food and bar lines will be long as they always are, but I expect rides won't be bad, and reservations for restaurants are usually easy to score since so many are doing the food booths all day.

LLMP make even smaller attendance days feel more crowded than pre-covid days because not nearly as many people spend as much time standing in a queue. The queues used to be a people eater.

 

[Minnie1222]

Im not cherry picking anything and my information is accurate. Disney world does not offer a pass to non Florida residents that is under $1,500, which is why i said price for outsiders, so yes it is a fair comparison.

How is it fair that you're comparing the renewal rate of a 2-park pass with a 2-month block-out to the full rate of a 4-park pass that has no block-outs?

 

[Girlstar30]

How is it fair that you're comparing the renewal rate of a 2-park pass with a 2-month block-out to the full rate of a 4-park pass that has no block-outs?

As I said above I am comparing the Annual pass options that both parks offer to outside guests if they want to purchase an annual pass.

The only option for a WDW annual pass for a non Florida resident costs $1,500. In turn, Universal Orlando offers one for their theme parks that is much cheaper, which would drive many people to be a Universal Orlando passholder over a Disney passholder.

 

[zackiedawg]

LLMP make even smaller attendance days feel more crowded than pre-covid days because not nearly as many people spend as much time standing in a queue. The queues used to be a people eater.

Certainly a good point...and makes sense why common areas feel so packed while ride lines aren't all that bad.

Though I think we're still a far way off from the 80's and 90's when you had some weeks in February and September where you could see maybe 100 people on all of Main Street in MK - and where I regularly would ride Big Thunder, POTC, Peoplemover, and HM with no line, right to the ride vehicle, and several times was allowed to stay seated and go for another round (on Peoplemover and Thunder - the other two wouldn't let you stay on between the exit and entry areas, but I could circle around and walk right on each again). I used to love those dead times in the parks, though I'm sure Disney didn't!

 

[Minnie1222]

In turn, Universal Orlando offers one for their theme parks that is much cheaper, which would drive many people to be a Universal Orlando passholder over a Disney passholder.

It has to be cheaper because the AP is only for two parks. If Disney only had two parks, maybe their pricing would be lower too.

We have no proof that people are choosing Universal APs over Disney's. Their targeted audiences are different.

 

[Girlstar30]

It has to be cheaper because the AP is only for two parks. If Disney only had two parks, maybe their pricing would be lower too.

We have no proof that people are choosing Universal APs over Disney's. Their targeted audiences are different.

Ok then double the price and pretend Universal had four parks. It would still be substantially cheaper than Disney and thinking that people that love theme parks and cant afford Disney would choose to buy an annual pass at the cheaper theme park is common sense.

Many people love both theme parks, their target audiences are people of all ages. Universal has plenty to do for kids and adults.

I know plenty of people that have annual passes to other theme parks that love Disney because Disney is too expensive for them.

 

[MagicalDaze]

According TP it is way down from the previous 2 summers.

I did a cash stay this summer because the cash prices were actually lower than the value of my points and we had no trouble getting any ADR we wanted - - that was all much different than past years.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I think they are reaping what they haves sewn.

We went the week before July 4th and I would call overall resort about a 5-6. Parks were semi-busy to busy depending on TOD, but they never felt crowded as I remember July being. I wrote it off to being the week before a major holiday. The more I've thought about it since coming home, the more I believe there is something much bigger going on. Eventually a multitude of bad decisions catches up to everyone. Eventually may be happening now.

 

[Minnie1222]

Ok then double the price and pretend Universal had four parks. It would still be substantially cheaper than Disney and thinking that people that love theme parks and cant afford Disney would choose to buy an annual pass at the cheaper theme park is common sense.

The more equivalent passes would be the Preferred and Premier at $630 and $905. Doubling those would be $1260 and $1810. Disney's $1500 still falls within that range.

It will be interesting to see the cost when Epic is included. The price for a no block-out pass should be $1125 to be on par with Disney.

 

[Minnie1222]

LLMP make even smaller attendance days feel more crowded than pre-covid days because not nearly as many people spend as much time standing in a queue. The queues used to be a people eater.

Sorry I don't follow this explanation. LLMP is just paid FastPass. Are you saying there are more people using LL than FP?

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

My suggestion would not help with crowds at Disney Springs, but over by the Drawn to Life show, I would add 2 dark rides that are à la carte. On an à la carte basis, you could probably pretty easily negotiate with Universal to do some revenue sharing on Marvel rides that would otherwise not be cost effective to sub-license back from Universal if they were at the parks.

There are so many thousands of people at Disney Springs, I would give them an opportunity for upsells on experiences, not just retail.

This is a really interesting idea. Plenty of families cannot afford to spend $200pp for a day at the parks, but might be willing to splurge $40/pp to take their kids one one really cool ride or $60/pp for two rides as a special treat. Plus all of the families that already spend about $50/day/person between LLMP and LLSP. I think the biggest risk might be that it would cannibalize attendance at the parks. Thinking for my family, we'd probably plan to do it on Day 1 (since it's hard to get good LLMP times on Day 1) and perhaps do 1 fewer day in the parks.

 

[Girlstar30]

The more equivalent passes would be the Preferred and Premier at $630 and $905. Doubling those would be $1260 and $1810. Disney's $1500 still falls within that range.

It will be interesting to see the cost when Epic is included. The price for a no block-out pass should be $1125 to be on par with Disney.

I dont know how many ways to explain this to you so this will be my last time, but I am saying that many people will choose a Universal pass over a Disney pass because they CAN purchase a Universal pass that is very cheap and they CANNOT purchase a Walt Disney World pass that is less than $1,500 which will drive people to choose Universal over Disney simply because they cant afford a Disney annual pass. No point in beating a dead horse, that is all, have a good day.

 

[muppets3d]

As I said above I am comparing the Annual pass options that both parks offer to outside guests if they want to purchase an annual pass.

The only option for a WDW annual pass for a non Florida resident costs $1,500. In turn, Universal Orlando offers one for their theme parks that is much cheaper, which would drive many people to be a Universal Orlando passholder over a Disney passholder.

It's as comparable as a Mcdouble and the bison burger at geyser point I guess.

 

[muppets3d]

I dont know how many ways to explain this to you so this will be my last time, but I am saying that many people will choose a Universal pass over a Disney pass because they CAN purchase a Universal pass that is very cheap and they CANNOT purchase a Walt Disney World pass that is less than $1,500 which will drive people to choose Universal over Disney simply because they cant afford a Disney annual pass. No point in beating a dead horse, that is all, have a good day.

Very few people need annual passes to these parks unless they live close to them.

 

[muppets3d]

I think they are reaping what they haves sewn.

We went the week before July 4th and I would call overall resort about a 5-6. Parks were semi-busy to busy depending on TOD, but they never felt crowded as I remember July being. I wrote it off to being the week before a major holiday. The more I've thought about it since coming home, the more I believe there is something much bigger going on. Eventually a multitude of bad decisions catches up to everyone. Eventually may be happening now.

Certainly possible, but I think it's most likely that people are just not traveling as much right now they traveled enough immediately after Covid and for WDW in particular there's a lot of stuff under construction right now so people who already are being more choosy with their travel are choosing to go other places. I haven't really kept up with epic since opening. Is it breaking attendance records every day or is attendance in line with expectations or below? I really don't know.

 

[PolyRob]

pretend Universal had four parks

This always grinds my gears, but Universal itself pretends it has four parks because it has been calling Volcano Bay a "theme park" since the day it opened

 

[zavandor]

Certainly possible, but I think it's most likely that people are just not traveling as much right now they traveled enough immediately after Covid and for WDW in particular there's a lot of stuff under construction right now so people who already are being more choosy with their travel are choosing to go other places. I haven't really kept up with epic since opening. Is it breaking attendance records every day or is attendance in line with expectations or below? I really don't know.

Epic currently has long lines despite less than stellar attendance. Apart previews and some of the early days (when the cap was lower), tickets sales are well below the cap. Yet lines are long because rides are great but there aren't many low stakes attractions that can absorb crowds (it's similar to DHS from this point of view), they're unreliable with long downtime and bad weather shuts down most of the park.
So, if you look only at average wait times it looks like a big success, but the reality is that ticket sales are below expectations.

 

[Minnie1222]

I already took two trips to Epic. Lines were long because the attractions kept closing/delaying due to technical and weather issues. They were handing out recovery EP to everyone who was ushered from an attraction, and this added more people to the EP lines. It was common to wait 45 minutes in some express lines. I can't imagine what the wait times for the standby lines were.

Despite all that, I still wouldn't discourage anyone from going to Epic. It's a beautiful park and we are returning next month. I just don't think it's an answer for the folks who are currently upset with Disney's pricing. If they can't afford Disney, they won't be able to afford Epic either.

 

[sethschroeder]

I remember when you had to book dinner reservations 6 months out. Its odd- even with the free dining they offered thos summer, it was not difficult getting reservations.

This has been the case since COVID IMO. I think the paid LLMP actually hurts them even more as well. This time around we opt'd for more QS and to get LLMP compared to our normal TS most days.