Need some legal advice

[Klayfish]

Oh golly, I guess working in a courthouse full of lawyers ain't taught me nuffin' about who gets the job done when and how.

I'm not suggesting OP engage an ambulance chaser to engage in any type of fraud, by any means. If I thought I was vulnerable to an attempted scam like in OP's situation, I'd definitely be represented by one of our area's finest ambulance chasers because they know how to defend against the tricks of the trade. If I had other legal needs, I'd choose quite differently. There's a reason it is a big deal if a case with adversarial ambulance chasers makes it into a courtroom. OP doesn't want this to wind up in a courtroom, too expensive.

Hey, listen, at the end of the day just like in any of the threads here...I don't care all that much. Not particularly interested in a battle of resumes, my point was that this is specifically what I do for a living, so unless I've been doing it all wrong for decades, I'm confident in advice I'm giving OP. You work in a courthouse...wonderful. Glad to hear it.

As you know, the number of auto claims that actually make it into a courtroom is amazingly small, as in a very small fraction of 1%. And of those that do, the number that are small cases like this are even smaller...relatively close to zero. And even when they do, unless there is an excess verdict found against the insured, it's of no expense whatsoever to the OP (and if an excess verdict does come down, that opens up a can of worms for the insurance company).

Think what you want. You're entitled to do so. You clearly have an opinion on what TV attorneys can and can't do. All I'm saying is that from all of my experience of working in claims...including thousands of pedestrian hits, it's just not that way. Just trying to help OP and point them in the right direction. Beyond that...whatever.

 

[Klayfish]

Recommending a lawyer is not lawyering, a law school graduate worth their salt should have no difficulty grasping that concept. I'm recommending hiring the advocate who provides the strongest, economical defense against a scam. Please point out exactly where I suggested either an attorney who was not REAL or taking advantage of anyone? As for being taken seriously in the legal community, I'm guessing you might have a sharp learning curve headed your way.

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest OP hire a lawyer anyway? You know that the insurance company is required to provide a legal defense should suit be filed. So why incur an expense that OP wouldn't need to.

 

[cabanafrau]

Hey, listen, at the end of the day just like in any of the threads here...I don't care all that much. Not particularly interested in a battle of resumes, my point was that this is specifically what I do for a living, so unless I've been doing it all wrong for decades, I'm confident in what advice I'm trying to give OP. You work in a courthouse...wonderful. Glad to hear it. I'm going to presume it's a courthouse that handles only auto insurance claims.

The number of auto insurance claims that actually make it into a courtroom is amazingly small, as in a very small fraction of 1%. And of those that do, the number that are small cases like this are even smaller...relatively close to zero. And even when they do, unless there is an excess verdict found against the insured, it's of no expense whatsoever to the OP (and if an excess verdict does come down, that opens up a can of worms for the insurance company). But I'm sure you already knew that.

Think what you want. You're entitled to do so. You clearly have an opinion on what TV attorneys can and can't do. All I'm saying is that from all of my experience of working in claims...including thousands of pedestrian hits, it's just not that way. Just trying to help OP and point them in the right direction. Beyond that...whatever.

You brought up your experience, assuming it would set standard when I merely commented on the situation. Yes, I'm aware most claims never see a courtroom, for obvious reasons. I'm also friends for more than 30 years with house counsel for an auto insurer who has no connection with the courthouse I work in and we talk. I have zero illusions about what happens with auto insurance claims when the lawyers get involved -- the insurer's interests are paramount and the insured is often quite unaware they figure very minimally in the equation of legal representation, until it's too late.

None of this has anything to do with my actual job, however I am very aware of the importance of having the right legal advocate in place to speak for you at the right point in legal matters -- preferably before big bills are rung up, before legal claims are filed. Having the right lawyer at the right time can make a huge difference in dollars and cents. That's where my experience might just have an advantage in understanding the who and the when regarding legal representation, quite without 20 years experience investigating insurance fraud or attending law school. Quite frankly I have zero idea what you're getting at regarding TV attorneys, whether it's those who advertise on TV or those depicted on a Law and Order or other shows or some other concept which eludes me. I do suppose even any kind of TV lawyer would allow me the right to think what I want, but I do thank you for saving me the trouble of finding one to secure me that right.

 

[cabanafrau]

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest OP hire a lawyer anyway? You know that the insurance company is required to provide a legal defense should suit be filed. So why incur an expense that OP wouldn't need to.

OP referenced contacting an attorney, my initial comment was based on that.

If I were in her shoes I would consult my own counsel as well. Initial consultation should be free and it's not a bad idea to be prepared to have counsel ready to go if the need arises. Whether I would hire my own attorney would depend on the circumstances. In many situations I would not want to trust my defense to counsel whose first allegiance and priority isn't me.

 

[Marchand63]

I'm not a lawyer or haven't worked in court for 20 years but I did stay in a Holiday Express last night.

It will hinge a lot on the police report. Was she transported to hospital? That report will be important too. Leave it to whatever insurance company has to handle.

 

[Nancyg56]

Completely incorrect, all the way around. It's possible you can run into the incompetent, but odds are the ambulance chaser is exactly what will be required to handle any scam being run against OP's son. Ambulance chasers know how to work the law in ways that confound even the keenest minds among legal scholars. You want to know how to beat the con, call the shyster lawyer every day. They know how to beat it because they know how to run it.

The problem with an ambulance chaser is that they know how to gain their percentage of a claim, but may not be interested in representing the other side. I have no idea what the OP son should do in regards to retaining a lawyer, but if Mom's insurance company refuses to pay the claim or perhaps even worse, pays it and then goes after the OP for reimbursement, it would be best to have a very good attorney.

The insurance company has very good legal counsel at it's disposal and if the insured was using the car in a manner that is forbidden in the contract, the mess is not only going to be with the woman he hit, but with his own company.

As a law school graduate, I'd encourage you to seek out real legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction. Most of what is posted here is incorrect at best. An internet forum isn't the place to ask for legal advice. You'll get what you got here - a lot of people who think they know stuff because they watch The People's Court. Good luck!

I do not watch People's Court. I do not work in a court house. I do know what my policy covers, and I do know that this can get messy. It is the law, you need to report an accident within a specific time frame. If you do not the insurance company can cancel you, and good luck getting coverage that is not in a high risk pool. So I stand by my advice: report this to your insurance company. Odds are high they will find out already, and they do not like getting that info from the person who was injured.

 

[Nancyg56]

Agreed. Don't expect the employer to magically take care of this. The boss might have insurance that relates to this, so your son should ask, but don't count on it. If your son has not already reported this to the car insurer, he needs to do so immediately. That's the first step. Regardless of how serious it was or wasn't, and whether he was working or not, this was an automobile accident that your son caused.

Exactly. The kid down the street backed out of her driveway....right into me. She was not very nice about it, even though she cause my car pain, and did not report it. I had called the police, reported to my own insurance company who used the info the officer gathered to report the accident to her insurance company, picked up the police report and sent it to the representative. She was responsible, and no matter that she tried to avoid it, ended up being charged with the accident. The adjuster who came to my house told me the girl was approaching the end of the companies limit for not reporting an accident and not responding to calls. She finally did but I was told by the adjuster that the company would cancel the policy if she pushed it.

 

[jt'smom]

Ds19 just got into a car accident with a pedestrian. He was driving his vehicle, but was on the clock at his job delivering food. He hit a woman's shopping car, and it banged into her, she ended up with a scratch. She also threw herself down to the ground when he got out of the vehicle screaming that this is evidence and to call 911. The police took a report. Witnesses saw the whole thing, told my ds that the lady was obviously fine. This was in a sketchy urban area. Ds did video the woman shorty after, because it was pretty obvious that she was going to try and milk this.

Dd20 recently got into an accident, hitting the bumper of a brand new Lexus. Woman couldn't have been nicer, but that was our free accident forgiveness incident (we hadn't had a claim in over 10 years).

I'm just gonna go there and say it... this post stinks to high heaven of "my perfect, hardworking son mistakenly hit a dirt poor ghetto chick and now she's going to sue because, of course she is, and I know this because my daughter hit a rich chick and she she was just wonderful because, or course she was!". Not picking on you OP, but kids delivering food probably are not driving in the safest, most careful manner, and bottom line is that he hit a shopping cart which then banged into a woman hard enough to scratch her skin. It's kind of crappy to then get haughty, when your son is the one who was at fault. I can't help but to think of the many threads on here where people post that they've been hit and then everyone carries on about how it it is IMPERATIVE to see a doctor because you might think you are ok but there could be hidden damage to disable you permanently, lol. And I say this as a mother of a 21 year old son, remember, you are only getting his version of events. My question would be to him, "how could you miss a shopping cart?!" I know nothing of the legalities of what, if anything, would be handled by his employer, but I would immediately be on the phone with my insurance company finding out all the info possible. And then I'd be telling my son he's gonna have a big new bill to make up for the difference on how much the insurance bill will shoot up. Hard lesson, and call me a meanie, but it sounds like he probably wasn't being careful and looking where he was going, so I'd tell him to suck it up and take the responsibility for what happened.

 

[Kaytie]

Not picking on you OP, but kids delivering food probably are not driving in the safest, most careful manner, and bottom line is that he hit a shopping cart which then banged into a woman hard enough to scratch her skin.

Then shouldn't the store to which the cart belonged bear some responsibility? Shouldn't the carts not be in such a state of disrepair that someone could get scratched?

 

[tvguy]

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest OP hire a lawyer anyway? You know that the insurance company is required to provide a legal defense should suit be filed. So why incur an expense that OP wouldn't need to.

What if the OP did not tell their insurance that the car was being used for business and the insurance company said that was legal basis for them to refuse the claim? Or if the employer does not have coverage for on the job incidents in employees personal cars?
We're missing information here, but like I said earlier, go through the process with the employer and your insurance, but I can see where OP could end up with both their insurance and employer denied liability, and then they would be on their own for any legal and claim issues.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I'm just gonna go there and say it... this post stinks to high heaven of "my perfect, hardworking son mistakenly hit a dirt poor ghetto chick and now she's going to sue because, of course she is, and I know this because my daughter hit a rich chick and she she was just wonderful because, or course she was!". Not picking on you OP, but kids delivering food probably are not driving in the safest, most careful manner, and bottom line is that he hit a shopping cart which then banged into a woman hard enough to scratch her skin. It's kind of crappy to then get haughty, when your son is the one who was at fault. I can't help but to think of the many threads on here where people post that they've been hit and then everyone carries on about how it it is IMPERATIVE to see a doctor because you might think you are ok but there could be hidden damage to disable you permanently, lol. And I say this as a mother of a 21 year old son, remember, you are only getting his version of events. My question would be to him, "how could you miss a shopping cart?!" I know nothing of the legalities of what, if anything, would be handled by his employer, but I would immediately be on the phone with my insurance company finding out all the info possible. And then I'd be telling my son he's gonna have a big new bill to make up for the difference on how much the insurance bill will shoot up. Hard lesson, and call me a meanie, but it sounds like he probably wasn't being careful and looking where he was going, so I'd tell him to suck it up and take the responsibility for what happened.

I'm not not entirely sure if the OP meant it that way but...

I'm more sympathetic to the woman. I got hit when I was crossing the street last year. Hit and run. Sort of side swiped and bounced off the hood. It was dark and maybe they didn't see me. But I doubt that. The point is they weren't going very fast, and they were clearly not paying attention- coasted turning right on red. But I hit the ground hard and it scared me badly and it caused some seriously expensive chiropractor bills- in extremely thankful I had health insurance because at least I wasn't out of pocket for X-rays.

So I'm inclined to say, OP, that I would make your son feel the consequences for this out of his paycheck, because I'm guessing you're going to see your premiums skyrocket. He was in the wrong, and was definitely not paying close enough attention to the job at hand if he managed to hit a shopping cart pushed by a pedestrian.

 

[Klayfish]

You brought up your experience, assuming it would set standard when I merely commented on the situation.

Don't really want to go back and forth, but I don't want to see OP going in the wrong direction. Almost everything you've said is just not right or accurate. Putting everything else aside, what specifically is it an attorney is going to do for OP at this point? Presume the potential coverage issue of delivering food is resolved and coverage is afforded.

Then shouldn't the store to which the cart belonged bear some responsibility? Shouldn't the carts not be in such a state of disrepair that someone could get scratched?

Nope. Even if the carts aren't taken in or in proper order, it doesn't "give the right" (I don't mean that harshly) for OPs son to hit it. It would be a complete dead end to pursue the store.

 

[Klayfish]

What if the OP did not tell their insurance that the car was being used for business and the insurance company said that was legal basis for them to refuse the claim? Or if the employer does not have coverage for on the job incidents in employees personal cars?
We're missing information here, but like I said earlier, go through the process with the employer and your insurance, but I can see where OP could end up with both their insurance and employer denied liability, and then they would be on their own for any legal and claim issues.

Well, this can get pretty hairy and complicated. Without going too far down a hole (it's not a fun hole to go down, it stinks), here's a high level summary....

I'm going to guess that OPs son is not the actual "named insured" on the policy. In other words, he's just an additional driver on OPs policy...OP is probably the name on the policy. If that's not true, then things change, but let's go with this as it's most likely. If DS has been delivering food since before the policy started and it wasn't disclosed on the application, the insurance company could theoretically void the entire policy, give OP all their premium money back, and basically say "This policy never happened". That doesn't happen often, but I've done it and seen it done, so it "can" happen. But carriers rarely want to do this. Let's assume it's not the case here, because most likely it isn't. In that case, what could happen is the insurance carrier would deny coverage to DS, but would defend the OP because if a lawsuit is filed, OP would be named. That's where it gets messy. In short summary, what would wind up happening would be that a settlement would be reached in order to protect the OP (despite PPs claim that the insurance company's interest is paramount...it's not...the policy holder is), and that would then resolve the claim.

From the business company side, it would be a relatively similar process. However, it's pretty unlikely they'd deny coverage. Very, very good chance they will have liability coverage.

I've actually worked almost exactly the same amount of time for a personal lines carrier as I have commercial (businesses), so I've done it from both sides of this scenario.

In other words, the odds of OP being left totally exposed are about the same as me being hit by a car tomorrow. "Could" happen, but extraordinarily unlikely.

 

[longboard55]

a little late, but parents should instruct kids on what to say in these situations. The police report is gold. If he thought the woman was faking it he should for sure tell that to the police. Kids tend to want to say nothing or take too much blame. Call it like it is.

 

[Nancyg56]

a little late, but parents should instruct kids on what to say in these situations. The police report is gold. If he thought the woman was faking it he should for sure tell that to the police. Kids tend to want to say nothing or take too much blame. Call it like it is.

What was said matters not. The police report is objective and while there may be notes that detail what each party says, theynare anecdotes.

The kid who hit me tried to blame me, and said I went too fast. Did not matter what she said, she backed into oncoming traffic. I wad not speeding, I was almost in my driveway, but my point was just because a statement was made does not make it so.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Oh golly, I guess working in a courthouse full of lawyers ain't taught me nuffin' about who gets the job done when and how.

I'm not suggesting OP engage an ambulance chaser to engage in any type of fraud, by any means. If I thought I was vulnerable to an attempted scam like in OP's situation, I'd definitely be represented by one of our area's finest ambulance chasers because they know how to defend against the tricks of the trade. If I had other legal needs, I'd choose quite differently. There's a reason it is a big deal if a case with adversarial ambulance chasers makes it into a courtroom. OP doesn't want this to wind up in a courtroom, too expensive.

The ambulance chasers here appear to be laughing all the way to the bank. They appear to be making a very good living representing those who were "injured" in accidents. In my job, I encountered a guy who had received millions from an automobile accident. His wife was also being paid to take care of him. He had spent time in the hospital in intensive care, but ended up with no obvious physical injuries & understood everything we discussed with him. How did we know he received this very generous settlement? He was happy to tell us how he could afford the luxury cars & extravagant home upgrades, without us asking him any questions. It would be nice to be able to discount ambulance chaser as kooks, but that doesn't appear to be reality here.

 

[DaisyJ]

I'm just gonna go there and say it... this post stinks to high heaven of "my perfect, hardworking son mistakenly hit a dirt poor ghetto chick and now she's going to sue because, of course she is, and I know this because my daughter hit a rich chick and she she was just wonderful because, or course she was!". Not picking on you OP, but kids delivering food probably are not driving in the safest, most careful manner, and bottom line is that he hit a shopping cart which then banged into a woman hard enough to scratch her skin. It's kind of crappy to then get haughty, when your son is the one who was at fault. I can't help but to think of the many threads on here where people post that they've been hit and then everyone carries on about how it it is IMPERATIVE to see a doctor because you might think you are ok but there could be hidden damage to disable you permanently, lol. And I say this as a mother of a 21 year old son, remember, you are only getting his version of events. My question would be to him, "how could you miss a shopping cart?!" I know nothing of the legalities of what, if anything, would be handled by his employer, but I would immediately be on the phone with my insurance company finding out all the info possible. And then I'd be telling my son he's gonna have a big new bill to make up for the difference on how much the insurance bill will shoot up. Hard lesson, and call me a meanie, but it sounds like he probably wasn't being careful and looking where he was going, so I'd tell him to suck it up and take the responsibility for what happened.

The woman did more damage throwing herself to the ground and thrashing around than being scratched by a shopping cart.

 

[mjkacmom]

Ok I'm back! Really couldn't do much until ds came home from work. He was at a red light, but wth no "no turn on red" sign. He saw the woman, the, looked left, and then rolled right. He then heard her yell, put the vehicle in park, and got out, she was on the ground. She told him to call the police, he called 911, they asked if they should end an ambulance, she said yes. A guy working at a restaurant there said he saw the whole thing, that the woman was fine. Two other guys came up to ds, said something along the lines of poor you (and that he needs to smoke some week), the cops were very nice, someone mentioned there were cameras on all of the corners.

Ds was definitely at fault, no doubt about it. There was some damage to the cart (I was under the impression that it was a personal one folks use in cities), no damage to his vehicle (17 years old, but nice on the outside). Ds felt really bad for the woman, he said she seemed old and feeble (I asked how old, he said late 40's, early 50's - so like the same age as his parents...).

He's on our plan, just like dd. I didn't call the insurance company when he got this job, I guess because while he goes on deliveries, it's usually just a few each week, and not your normal delivering pizzas across town all day. He also grills, paints, stocks shelves, and gets sent to the local grocery store to purchase food for the restaurant. He also works at a garden center, so his days are usually 9 -3, 4 - 9, poor college student on summer break saving for tuition.

He called the insurance company, didn't mention being at work. He will pick up the police report in a few days, and forward it to the insurance company. I know our premiums will jump (right now I pay over $4000 on 3 10+ year old vehicles without collision). I think we will split the increase, since his sister got the free pass (but totaled her vehicle, so had to go into saving to buy another 11 year old car.

Hopefully this will be a lesson to be more careful, he's actually a really good driver (like his mom, who's never been in an accident, knock on wood). Dd20 isn't the greatest (not reckless, maybe too cautious, but getting better). It was nice when he was at college, no cars for freshmen, one less thing to worry about.

 

[IAHFTPT]

This went about how I'd expected.

Blank waving contest and all.

 

[Kellykins1218]

Then shouldn't the store to which the cart belonged bear some responsibility? Shouldn't the carts not be in such a state of disrepair that someone could get scratched?