Need some legal advice

[Klayfish]

Ok I'm back! Really couldn't do much until ds came home from work. He was at a red light, but wth no "no turn on red" sign. He saw the woman, the, looked left, and then rolled right. He then heard her yell, put the vehicle in park, and got out, she was on the ground. She told him to call the police, he called 911, they asked if they should end an ambulance, she said yes. A guy working at a restaurant there said he saw the whole thing, that the woman was fine. Two other guys came up to ds, said something along the lines of poor you (and that he needs to smoke some week), the cops were very nice, someone mentioned there were cameras on all of the corners.

Ds was definitely at fault, no doubt about it. There was some damage to the cart (I was under the impression that it was a personal one folks use in cities), no damage to his vehicle (17 years old, but nice on the outside). Ds felt really bad for the woman, he said she seemed old and feeble (I asked how old, he said late 40's, early 50's - so like the same age as his parents...).

He's on our plan, just like dd. I didn't call the insurance company when he got this job, I guess because while he goes on deliveries, it's usually just a few each week, and not your normal delivering pizzas across town all day. He also grills, paints, stocks shelves, and gets sent to the local grocery store to purchase food for the restaurant. He also works at a garden center, so his days are usually 9 -3, 4 - 9, poor college student on summer break saving for tuition.

He called the insurance company, didn't mention being at work. He will pick up the police report in a few days, and forward it to the insurance company. I know our premiums will jump (right now I pay over $4000 on 3 10+ year old vehicles without collision). I think we will split the increase, since his sister got the free pass (but totaled her vehicle, so had to go into saving to buy another 11 year old car.

Hopefully this will be a lesson to be more careful, he's actually a really good driver (like his mom, who's never been in an accident, knock on wood). Dd20 isn't the greatest (not reckless, maybe too cautious, but getting better). It was nice when he was at college, no cars for freshmen, one less thing to worry about.

OK, thanks for the update. Here's what I'd suggest. First, make sure his employer is aware of the incident and insist they call it into their insurance carrier. Did DS happen to get the name of the witness? If not, and it's not on the police report, then that unfortunately won't help anything. If you do have the witness info, you can provide it, but it may not do a lot of good. Don't at all be surprised if the witness embellishes on the part of the woman. You can mention that it's possible nearby stores have cameras, but the odds of it capturing the event aren't high. If it did capture it, the odds of getting it are even slimmer. Not impossible mind you, I've seen it, but not at all common.

From there, your carrier and the employers' carrier will want to talk to DS. He should be clear, honest and upfront. Basically tell it like it is. Don't hide anything, don't exaggerate, don't underestimate. Just the facts. The carriers will handle it from there. Very, very likely you'll get an attorney representation letter. Hand it to the insurance companies, don't respond to it. Your carrier may look into the coverage aspect because he was delivering. But beyond that, once they talk to DS, you'll pretty much be out of the loop as there isn't anything for you to do. You won't hear anything for months, or even years...if ever. And that's OK. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Nancyg56]

OK, thanks for the update. Here's what I'd suggest. First, make sure his employer is aware of the incident and insist they call it into their insurance carrier. Did DS happen to get the name of the witness? If not, and it's not on the police report, then that unfortunately won't help anything. If you do have the witness info, you can provide it, but it may not do a lot of good. Don't at all be surprised if the witness embellishes on the part of the woman. You can mention that it's possible nearby stores have cameras, but the odds of it capturing the event aren't high. If it did capture it, the odds of getting it are even slimmer. Not impossible mind you, I've seen it, but not at all common.

From there, your carrier and the employers' carrier will want to talk to DS. He should be clear, honest and upfront. Basically tell it like it is. Don't hide anything, don't exaggerate, don't underestimate. Just the facts. The carriers will handle it from there. Very, very likely you'll get an attorney representation letter. Hand it to the insurance companies, don't respond to it. Your carrier may look into the coverage aspect because he was delivering. But beyond that, once they talk to DS, you'll pretty much be out of the loop as there isn't anything for you to do. You won't hear anything for months, or even years...if ever. And that's OK. Let me know if you have any questions.

Several years ago my DH was stopped at a red light. He was working and driving his lowbed. A guy was behind him, and started forward before the light changed, hit the back of the lowbed. My DH called the police, called his supervisor who had to go to the accident and take pictures. The guy said he was fine. My husband found out later that the guy filed an injury claim and that the insurance company settled. He was furious, and told his employer that he would have fought it, he had done nothing wrong. His employer told him that once the claim is filed with the insurance company, it really was out of their hands, and that this was not the first time their insurance company settled this kind of claim out of court. My DH was really upset because he felt it said something about his driving, but the supervisor told him that it was not held against him.

I have no idea how it affected the company rates, but I do know that my husbands driving record is impeccable, so he took it personally.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Hi,

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the disboards.

You should file a writ of habius corpus followed by a motion to dismiss via corpus christi, citing Meyer v. Alley (1982).

And if that doesn't work, distract everybody with a really cool fidget spinner trick and then run for the Mexico border.

 

[Klayfish]

Hi,

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the disboards.

You should file a writ of habius corpus followed by a motion to dismiss via corpus christi, citing Meyer v. Alley (1982).

And if that doesn't work, distract everybody with a really cool fidget spinner trick and then run for the Mexico border.

Then hire Dewey, Cheatum and Howe...

 

[tvguy]

Several years ago my DH was stopped at a red light. He was working and driving his lowbed. A guy was behind him, and started forward before the light changed, hit the back of the lowbed. My DH called the police, called his supervisor who had to go to the accident and take pictures. The guy said he was fine. My husband found out later that the guy filed an injury claim and that the insurance company settled. He was furious, and told his employer that he would have fought it, he had done nothing wrong. His employer told him that once the claim is filed with the insurance company, it really was out of their hands, and that this was not the first time their insurance company settled this kind of claim out of court. My DH was really upset because he felt it said something about his driving, but the supervisor told him that it was not held against him.

I have no idea how it affected the company rates, but I do know that my husbands driving record is impeccable, so he took it personally.

That happened to my neighbor. Stopped at a red light, hit by a guy on a bike going the wrong way. Guy sued. Insurance offered him $20,000 to "go away". Neighbor was livid, but insurance claims folks told him they know they (he) had zero liability,but to go to court him would cost $100,000 minimum even if it was immediately dismissed, so the bottom line was, it was quicker and cheaper to write a check now.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

This might sound stupid but it sounds like this woman wants to make a quick buck

 

[pryncess527]

The woman did more damage throwing herself to the ground and thrashing around than being scratched by a shopping cart.

What are you basing that claim on? How could you possibly know such a thing based on what has been presented here?

 

[Kellykins1218]

Sorry, I'm just not buying it. I think there's a good chance that a shopping cart hit by a car could very well have caused the woman to fall. Maybe she's not out for a quick buck. Maybe the kid is just trying to cover his own behind.

 

[mjkacmom]

Sorry, I'm just not buying it. I think there's a good chance that a shopping cart hit by a car could very well have caused the woman to fall. Maybe she's not out for a quick buck. Maybe the kid is just trying to cover his own behind.

I don't think he's trying to cover his behind, he admits to hitting the cart, he does think his negligence caused it. However, she was walking around fine, insisting she needed an ambulance. The witnesses were the ones to tell him they saw the whole thing, and she was making too big a deal out of it. He told the insurance company and the cops that he was at fault.

 

[lifesavacation]

So it sounds like this woman was in the crosswalk at the time? Whether she's embellished her injuries or not, your insurance company will have to pay. I'm sure they'll negotiate a settlement on his behalf.

Question for Klayfish....If this woman was out to make money, what is to stop her from going after the employer and/or the parents (assuming car is titled in their name)?

 

[SMD]

You might want to contact your insurance agent about adding an umbrella policy if you're going to keep your kids on your insurance. A totaled car and a personal injury are pretty serious. If you own a home you want to protect it in the event that one of the kids causes another accident.

 

[Gracie09]

I just reread the OP - the woman was pushing the shopping cart and he hit it? It wasn't like he hit a shopping cart randomly in the lot that then hit her. What the heck was he doing so close to a pedestrian anyway. This is totally 100% his fault. I don't know if you need your own atty - I would probably talk with one, although it will likely cost you a few hundred. The ones that do free consults tend to be those that represent the victims/injured parties as they would take a part of the settlement or judgement. If you don't hire your own, cooperate with the insurance company.

 

[robinb]

OK, thanks for the update. Here's what I'd suggest. First, make sure his employer is aware of the incident and insist they call it into their insurance carrier. Did DS happen to get the name of the witness? If not, and it's not on the police report, then that unfortunately won't help anything. If you do have the witness info, you can provide it, but it may not do a lot of good. Don't at all be surprised if the witness embellishes on the part of the woman. You can mention that it's possible nearby stores have cameras, but the odds of it capturing the event aren't high. If it did capture it, the odds of getting it are even slimmer. Not impossible mind you, I've seen it, but not at all common.

From there, your carrier and the employers' carrier will want to talk to DS. He should be clear, honest and upfront. Basically tell it like it is. Don't hide anything, don't exaggerate, don't underestimate. Just the facts. The carriers will handle it from there. Very, very likely you'll get an attorney representation letter. Hand it to the insurance companies, don't respond to it. Your carrier may look into the coverage aspect because he was delivering. But beyond that, once they talk to DS, you'll pretty much be out of the loop as there isn't anything for you to do. You won't hear anything for months, or even years...if ever. And that's OK. Let me know if you have any questions.

Just verifying from the expert ... should the OP's son call his insurance company and tell them he was on a work delivery even through the OP did not notify them that he was using his personal car for occasional deliveries?

 

[Klayfish]

So it sounds like this woman was in the crosswalk at the time? Whether she's embellished her injuries or not, your insurance company will have to pay. I'm sure they'll negotiate a settlement on his behalf.

Question for Klayfish....If this woman was out to make money, what is to stop her from going after the employer and/or the parents (assuming car is titled in their name)?

Insurance. Exactly to your point in the first paragraph above, the insurance company will negotiate a settlement. In that settlement, the woman will have to sign a legal release which protects DS, the parents and the employer from any further claims.

Reality is that barring a very serious injury such as loss of limb, fatality, permanent disfigurement, etc... this claim is not going to be a "million dollar" claim, or even remotely close to it. It's far, far less. Where a policyholder can run into issues of maybe having their personal assets exposed is if they have very low limits. For example, if you only have $25k bodily injury limits, an ER visit alone can get fairly close to that in some cases. Add in PT, doctors visits, etc...and the bills could exceed that amount...let alone "pain and suffering" the attorney will ask for. However, having said that, it gets really complicated from there....the upshot of it is that even in those cases it's pretty rare (but not impossible) that someones' personal assets will be sought after. You still absolutely and unquestionably want to be properly insured, because why take that kind of a risk. However, under almost any circumstances, it's not common.

 

[Klayfish]

Just verifying from the expert ... should the OP's son call his insurance company and tell them he was on a work delivery even through the OP did not notify them that he was using his personal car for occasional deliveries?

Professionally speaking, yes, that's what I would recommend. Hiding something from a carrier is not a good thing, because in this case it's going to come out anyway. OP may be opening up a can of worms, but better to be up front with it than try to hide it. I've seen plenty of "don't ask, don't tell" happen in cases like this...and if the insurance adjuster choses not to ask and doesn't identify it then that's on them. However, far better to just disclose it than hope that they don't ask...because they probably will.

 

[focusondisney]

Ds19 just got into a car accident with a pedestrian. He was driving his vehicle, but was on the clock at his job delivering food. He hit a woman's shopping car, and it banged into her, she ended up with a scratch. She also threw herself down to the ground when he got out of the vehicle screaming that this is evidence and to call 911. The police took a report. Witnesses saw the whole thing, told my ds that the lady was obviously fine. This was in a sketchy urban area. Ds did video the woman shorty after, because it was pretty obvious that she was going to try and milk this.

Dd20 recently got into an accident, hitting the bumper of a brand new Lexus. Woman couldn't have been nicer, but that was our free accident forgiveness incident (we hadn't had a claim in over 10 years).

Ok I'm back! Really couldn't do much until ds came home from work. He was at a red light, but wth no "no turn on red" sign. He saw the woman, the, looked left, and then rolled right. He then heard her yell, put the vehicle in park, and got out, she was on the ground. She told him to call the police, he called 911, they asked if they should end an ambulance, she said yes. A guy working at a restaurant there said he saw the whole thing, that the woman was fine. Two other guys came up to ds, said something along the lines of poor you (and that he needs to smoke some week), the cops were very nice, someone mentioned there were cameras on all of the corners.

Ds was definitely at fault, no doubt about it. There was some damage to the cart (I was under the impression that it was a personal one folks use in cities), no damage to his vehicle (17 years old, but nice on the outside). Ds felt really bad for the woman, he said she seemed old and feeble (I asked how old, he said late 40's, early 50's - so like the same age as his parents...).

He's on our plan, just like dd. I didn't call the insurance company when he got this job, I guess because while he goes on deliveries, it's usually just a few each week, and not your normal delivering pizzas across town all day. He also grills, paints, stocks shelves, and gets sent to the local grocery store to purchase food for the restaurant. He also works at a garden center, so his days are usually 9 -3, 4 - 9, poor college student on summer break saving for tuition.

He called the insurance company, didn't mention being at work. He will pick up the police report in a few days, and forward it to the insurance company.

In your first post, the woman "threw herself to the ground". In the update, he got out of the car & she was on the ground. He hit her because he wasn't looking, you have no way to know that the impact didn't in fact cause her to fall or hit the ground. Nice to blame the victim for your son's negligence. Our insurance company rountinely asks what the vehicle is used for: pleasure, commuting to work or for work. Sounds kind of shady to omit that fact in his report.

 

[mjkacmom]

You might want to contact your insurance agent about adding an umbrella policy if you're going to keep your kids on your insurance. A totaled car and a personal injury are pretty serious. If you own a home you want to protect it in the event that one of the kids causes another accident.

Well, the totaled car didn't have collision, it was a 2003, so the insurance was just responsible for a bumper. Before the last few months, we hadn't had to file a claim in almost 15 years, and no one has any points or violations.

 

[dish rag]

This might sound stupid but it sounds like this woman wants to make a quick buck

Not stupid at all. That's exactly what's going to happen. On one of the news shows a few years ago they staged fake bus accidents in an urban area, they showed people running onto the bus and running out holding their necks and backs.

 

[focusondisney]

Yep, I'm sure that woman placed herself in front of the son's car on purpose, knowing he wasn't going to pay attention to his driving, just to make a quick buck. Or maybe she didn't plan it, but was super quick thinking "hey, I just got hit by a car, I can make a fortune!".

Look, it is entirely possible the woman actually got knocked down & was stunned, shocked & in actual pain. None of you have any proof she is the one trying to scam the insurance company. I can tell you that as a relatively healthy 60 year old, if I was suddenly knocked to the concrete by a car, I would be in quite a bit of pain & might want to get checked at a hospital.

Again, so nice to blame the victim.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Ok I'm back! Really couldn't do much until ds came home from work. He was at a red light, but wth no "no turn on red" sign. He saw the woman, the, looked left, and then rolled right. He then heard her yell, put the vehicle in park, and got out, she was on the ground. She told him to call the police, he called 911, they asked if they should end an ambulance, she said yes. A guy working at a restaurant there said he saw the whole thing, that the woman was fine. Two other guys came up to ds, said something along the lines of poor you (and that he needs to smoke some week), the cops were very nice, someone mentioned there were cameras on all of the corners.

Ds was definitely at fault, no doubt about it. There was some damage to the cart (I was under the impression that it was a personal one folks use in cities), no damage to his vehicle (17 years old, but nice on the outside). Ds felt really bad for the woman, he said she seemed old and feeble (I asked how old, he said late 40's, early 50's - so like the same age as his parents...).

He's on our plan, just like dd. I didn't call the insurance company when he got this job, I guess because while he goes on deliveries, it's usually just a few each week, and not your normal delivering pizzas across town all day. He also grills, paints, stocks shelves, and gets sent to the local grocery store to purchase food for the restaurant. He also works at a garden center, so his days are usually 9 -3, 4 - 9, poor college student on summer break saving for tuition.

He called the insurance company, didn't mention being at work. He will pick up the police report in a few days, and forward it to the insurance company. I know our premiums will jump (right now I pay over $4000 on 3 10+ year old vehicles without collision). I think we will split the increase, since his sister got the free pass (but totaled her vehicle, so had to go into saving to buy another 11 year old car.

Hopefully this will be a lesson to be more careful, he's actually a really good driver (like his mom, who's never been in an accident, knock on wood). Dd20 isn't the greatest (not reckless, maybe too cautious, but getting better). It was nice when he was at college, no cars for freshmen, one less thing to worry about.

I'm still a little confused on what happened. He saw the woman, looked left and rolled right? Was the woman on the sidewalk when he saw her? In the crosswalk/street? Did she have the "walk" at the crosswalk and he didn't realize it. I know you and he both have already said he's 100% at fault, so not trying to push that, but trying to figure out what changed between him seeing her and him starting to make the right that caused it.