Need college planning tips from the Pros

[crisi]

Not directed at OP, but at others with younger children, this thread points out why you need to start setting aside money for college from the time your child is born.

Mrs. Pete said something years ago that has stuck with me - my version is probably more snarky than hers - the federal government - when filling out the FAFSA - assumes that you have had a child 18 years and that the fact that college is on the horizon is not a huge surprise. They assume that you've been making sacrifices appropriate to your income for 18 years to save for college for your kids. They are not willing to step in with tons of free money because you didn't plan ahead and decided to go to Disney five times with your kids and staying onsite each time instead of saving for college.

I'll add to that sentiment....private colleges saw their endowments take a huge hit - just like the stock market. And for many of them, alumni contributions have been diminishing (we went to my husband's 20th reunion from a high ranked private college with a HUGE endowment last year and the message the fundraising committee made was "you guys need to step up and give us money - previous generations did, but you don't - and we need it - our cash gets spent faster than we make it - and if you don't give us money, our scholarship programs are endangered") And their costs have gone up. Don't expect them to be begging you with huge checks to send your kid to their school.

 

[tvguy]

I know in Florida if you get an AA from a community college, you are guaranteed entry into one of the state schools as a junior. All of the "core" classes will be considered transfer credit, and my school even has a transfer program called GCSC2UWF, where you work with a UWF advisor from the beginning to make sure you have the right classes (if your program requires specific versions of core classes) and there's no application or anything to get in. If you're going into a competitive program, you still have to apply to that specific program, but you're guaranteed admission to the school in general.

Yeah, we have that here too, ON PAPER ONLY. DD went from a Cal State University, to Community College to the Cal State University that is partnered with the community college. Not only did some of the community college classes that were supposed to transfer not transfer, but some of the CSU classes were not accepted at the second CSU. Funny thing is, DD is studying in England now, and ALL those classes will transfer.

 

[akaler2010]

Here is my best advice as a fairly recent college grad who has spent the last 5 years working in College Admissions and Division IAA Athletics.

First, general scholarship advice. Encourage your students to re-take the ACT/SAT. For the ACT, if you study, the average retake will raise your score 2 points. However, be sure to look at each school's policies for what score they take. For example, the schools I've worked at take your best, but there are some who take your most recent, others piece together your best sections to make a whole score, and others average...so it's important to be cautious.

Additionally, look at whether the school re-calculates the GPA from a 5.0 scale to a 4.0 scale. If your student has a 4.3 GPA, but on a 4.0 scale it's only a 3.6, that's a big difference, so be careful.

Look at how the school charges for tuition, not just what they say the tuition is. For example, some schools cap their tuition, meaning once you hit a certain credit load for the semester, your tuition is capped and any additional courses you take are basically free! This can be a huge game changer. If you can be productive and take 18 credits each semester and only pay for 12, you are saving 6 credits of tuition, 33% of your cost each year. Some schools charge per-credit, which can really add up quickly and discreetly.

For athletics, it's great that some of you are interested in having your student play at the collegiate level. However, let me share some facts with you. http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/probability-competing-beyond-high-school This is a really great chart to share with your child if they are dead-set on college athletics. Brief synopsis is that around 5% of high school athletes will play in college. That doesn't mean 5% of your high school, that's the top 5% from around the world (yes, colleges do recruit internationally for many sports). Also, as previously mentioned, DIII schools do not offer athletic scholarships, and DII schools don't have a ton to go around. It's totally great if your student starts getting mail from schools, but help keep their expectations manageable. Schools send out postcards/mailers to thousands of students each year and give scholarships to less than 100.

Overall, it's super awesome to see so many parents looking out for their students. Just remember, it's their education, their debt, and their responsibility. Encourage them to take ownership of the college search process.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Try dual enrollment in high school with a local community college. You can maybe get away with an AA or AS degree which will count as all of your general electives in college (usually your first 2 years of college). If you are still in high school, I think the state pays for it, so you have gotten your first 2 years of college for free. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

My DD14 got accepted into a program like this in our county. She will graduate from the local community college with an AA degree a couple of weeks before she graduates from high school. All the dual enrollment community college classes are paid for by the county. The county has also worked with our state universities to insure that all the classes transfer. She will enter college as an academic Junior/social Freshman, meaning she will still go to freshman orientation, live in a freshman dorm, etc but will be able to finish in two years or double major or whatever.

 

[StephMK]

Thanks so much!!

I was searching on the UNL site. I wonder if it differs between the two schools?

I think it is different. DD goes to UNL and did not qualify for the Regent or the one below. She qualified in all areas-3.85 with AP classes & top 15% though only scored 29 on her ACT. She did not get into the honors program either. She got the $1000 freshman scholarship. In hindsight, we should have forced her to take a class but she thought she could raise it on her own. 3 times taking it and basically the same score each time. She has gotten some minor scholarships sophomore year.

Not directed at OP, but at others with younger children, this thread points out why you need to start setting aside money for college from the time your child is born.
And we told our kids grandparents, a $100 savings bond is a far better gift than another $50 toy for Christmas or birthdays. They listened, both kids hit college with $36,000 in savings bonds, plus our savings. We still had to get parent loans. But it was manageable, even though our combined gross income has never been more than the high 5 figures.
I will say, in our experience, where both kids went off to University, changed schools, went to community college for a time, then on to another 4 year University, that community college was a waste of time. It did allow our kids to stay as full time students for very little money to keep them qualified to be on our health insurance, so we were money ahead, but so few of the classes transferred (most notably, the classes listed by the community college as being accepted by the state university, which the state university did NOT accept), it was an academic waste of time.

I agree about saving early. When we first started, we only put $50 aside a month but it still added up. We added some small inheritances and those investments over time have really helped.

 

[MrsPete]

My child is a freshman at a private college and so my experience is somewhat recent. A few things I learned: Don't be afraid to consider a private college, despite the cost. I never considered even looking at one until the high school guidance counselor suggested a few. With scholarships, the cost is about the same as attending the state schools we looked at.

This is something I hear repeated both online and in real life often, but -- as a teacher of high school seniors -- it's not something I see played out in real life on a regular basis. I think it's something that happens just often enough that this idea persists. People for whom this works out talk about it, and others get the idea that it's common -- by the time the story's been passed around a couple times, it ends up sounding like this is something that any strong-average student can make happen! But that isn't factual.

If it appeals to you, you should absolutely seek out the small private schools that might provide such money, but -- at the same time -- choose a financial safety school, knowing that you're likely to be in the vast majority and will likely find that the school with the biggest price tag ends up being the school with the biggest price tag. My daughter was heavily recruited by a couple small schools, and we thought she'd investigate. They did indeed offer her a big scholarship -- more than the cost of a year at the state school! And she would've been at a tiny, lackluster college that doesn't offer the opportunities of the larger state school she's currently attending.

DS has an *idea* of how much time a college sport will take - hopefully he would be up to it if the opportunity ever arises!

Yes, being a college athlete is very time consuming! However, you have to put that into perspective:

1. Look at it as a job. Lots of students have part-time jobs in college; playing football (or whatever other sport) is no different. It's just more of a lifestyle than working at Subway.
2. Athletes get some pretty nice perks in addition to tuition, etc. They may live in an athletes' dorm /room with other kids from the team. They go to a different line in the cafeteria and get specially prepared meals. Because they need to have a schedule that allows them to travel to/from games, they get priority registration. The team may provide tutors. These perks can make college life easier -- in some ways anyway.

Try dual enrollment in high school with a local community college. You can maybe get away with an AA or AS degree which will count as all of your general electives in college (usually your first 2 years of college). If you are still in high school, I think the state pays for it, so you have gotten your first 2 years of college for free. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

Yes, details vary from place to place, but tapping into community college options during high school can be a great option. Do consider, though, that if you do one of the "early college programs" that are becoming so popular, you're giving up all elective choices (for the benefit of getting a rather general AA or AS degree that'll probably save one year of college). My girls benefited tremendously from the vocational and art classes they took during high school. Oh, computer classes too. Just be sure you don't give away too much to get those few college classes.

One thing about scholarships and schools - I've seen several people fall into this trap. They apply to several schools.

School #1 is their dream school (in my cousin's case, it was Vassar). They get in, but there is no or very little scholarship or grant type aid available - it will be loans or out of pocket (or, as someone mentioned, such a small token amount when you are talking about a $50k a year school).

School #2 is a private school with aid money, they get in, they get enough grants to make it cheaper than school #1, but there will still be loans and such. But it isn't their dream.

School #3 is a state school. They get in, and the total out of pocket bill will be less then either of the other two because its a state school. Its doable financially.

Sometimes, they even get a really nice scholarship to a school they "wouldn't be caught dead at."

For an eighteen year old - their dream school is their dream. Their parents have encouraged them to dream - so despite having less expensive options, they take out a lot of loans to go. And, if your dream school is a top 50 school - it might be worth it on the resume. However, if its a mid-tier private school (a friend of mine has this going on with Lawrence in Wisconsin - its an OK school, but it lacks the resume recognition of Vassar), it isn't a good INVESTMENT. It may be a great experience (like jpowell's daughter), if you can afford it as a family. But spending your summers in Europe is a great experience - not everyone can afford to do it.

Yes, this rings true for me. I'd add this: If your 18-year old is dead-set on a certain dream school, find out WHY. So often the dream is based upon perceptions that may or may not be true. That's also why it's ESSENTIAL to visit the school -- preferably several times.

My brother started talking to my oldest daughter about his beloved alma mater when she was in middle school, and she was SOLD! It's a good school, and I would've been glad for her to attend . . . but when we visited, well, it wasn't "her". In contrast, when we visited the school she now attends, she fell in love with it at first glance, and as she investigated details about it, she fell more and more in love. I'm very glad we didn't choose based upon her perceptions!

Mrs. Pete said something years ago that has stuck with me - my version is probably more snarky than hers - the federal government - when filling out the FAFSA - assumes that you have had a child 18 years and that the fact that college is on the horizon is not a huge surprise. They assume that you've been making sacrifices appropriate to your income for 18 years to save for college for your kids. They are not willing to step in with tons of free money because you didn't plan ahead and decided to go to Disney five times with your kids and staying onsite each time instead of saving for college.

I'll add to that sentiment....private colleges saw their endowments take a huge hit - just like the stock market. And for many of them, alumni contributions have been diminishing (we went to my husband's 20th reunion from a high ranked private college with a HUGE endowment last year and the message the fundraising committee made was "you guys need to step up and give us money - previous generations did, but you don't - and we need it - our cash gets spent faster than we make it - and if you don't give us money, our scholarship programs are endangered") And their costs have gone up. Don't expect them to be begging you with huge checks to send your kid to their school.

That does sound like something I'd say! I think all too many people -- unlike the OP -- wait until a year or two before college and then begin to consider financial aid, and they have the misplaced idea that they should be able to pay for college out of current earnings.

Brief synopsis is that around 5% of high school athletes will play in college. That doesn't mean 5% of your high school, that's the top 5% from around the world (yes, colleges do recruit internationally for many sports).

Based upon my experience, I agree with that number. Pretty much any kid can earn a spot on a high school team, but you have to be much better than "good" to get a college spot, much less a scholarship.

And I'll reiterate what I said earlier: If your kid is really "college scholarship good", you'll know it early on. One of my students -- a really outstanding young lady -- just signed a very nice full-ride scholarship agreement, and her coach says that scouts were already looking at her in 8th grade. She is genuinely tip-top in her sport and could possibly go pro after college. If she does, she'll be about #5 in my personal experience to do so. Kids don't realize just how rare that is, but parents should see the truth.

 

[crisi]

And I'll reiterate what I said earlier: If your kid is really "college scholarship good", you'll know it early on. One of my students -- a really outstanding young lady -- just signed a very nice full-ride scholarship agreement, and her coach says that scouts were already looking at her in 8th grade. She is genuinely tip-top in her sport and could possibly go pro after college. If she does, she'll be about #5 in my personal experience to do so. Kids don't realize just how rare that is, but parents should see the truth.

I'm a strange sort of shirt tail relation to Joe Mauer. That kid was heads and shoulders above the other kids in t-ball. They knew by middle school that - provided he didn't get injured - he'd be at least a scholarship kid.

I also have a friend whose son started being scouted for football - based on his size and the size of his parents and SOME skill and speed - when he was FIVE. Turns out, kid doesn't like football - so it went no where and he's now studying to be an LPN.....

 

[pjlla]

I haven't taken the time to read all of the responses, so forgive me if I am repeating anything.

DD is just finishing up her freshman year of college, so this is all pretty fresh for me.

First of all... save what you can (obviously). We did NOT save enough.... not even close. Should have started sooner and been more disciplined, but can't go back in time now. Some of that was due to real life expenses, some of that was due to poor planning and execution on my part. We are paying for what we can OOP and DD is getting some loans. We told her we woul help her with the loans when the time came and we will do our best. We are working now on putting her work study money into paying for the unsubsidised loan that is already earning interest. Have your child start asking for money and bonds for holiday and birthday gifts and stash it away..... $25 here and then for the next 4 years will definitely add up!!

We told DD to apply anywhere/everywhere she wanted and we would worry about the $$ after the fact. She applied to about 5 schools.... all private, varying sizes, a few ivy league. She only got one "no" from an ivy league school that we knew would be a reach. She was offered scholarships (merit based) from all of the others, of varying sizes. We didn't know enough at the time to use them to negotiate with each school.... we were just happy with what she was offered, since we qualified for virtually NO financial aid.

She was a 4 year varsity athlete, but knew that she wouldn't be a walk-on for Division 1, so she decided on a Division 3 school where she was assured a spot on the team by the coach. After dedicating 10 years of her life to this particular sport, we never imagined that she WOULDN'T compete.... but lo and behold, the team was NOT what she was hoping for and after two months of struggling to make it work, she stepped away. It was one of the HARDEST decisions I know that she has ever had to make in her life.... but I thank GOD every day that she wasn't there on a sports scholarship! That would have made a difficult decision nearly impossible!

Despite "talking the talk" of "you are a student first and an athlete second" the team and the coach did not "walk the walk" and DD was constantly struggling to make it to classes on time after morning practices (the coach was always keeping them just a bit too long), to connect with teammates who, it seemed, were there for fun and parties much more so than an education, and to find the time to fit it all in (double practices, a full course load with labs and homework, plus a few hours of work study). She was stressed and exhausted and miserable. Again, I am EVER so relieved that she didn't have any scholarship money riding on the sports. In fact, she was concerned about not getting the grades to keep up her merit scholarship if she continued on the team. Her professors were able to see the steep rise in her grades as soon as she quit the team and they told her so. She hasn't regretted the decision to put the emphasis in college on LEARNING. She knows that that is the right decision for her and her future.

Just want to emphasize... she KNEW going ito this that sports would take up a big chunk of time.... but as a club AND varsity athlete for all four years of high school, plus maintaining an "A" average, she certainly KNEW what was involved time-wise in maintaining this... but there was SO MUCH other stuff outside of normal practices (weekends spent hosting recruits, team community responsibilities such as fundraising for national organization) and the lack of emphasis from the coach on the importance of making it to classes consistently and ON TIME, plus the attitude of her fellow athletes, that made this a difficult situation for her. And some of the PERKS for athletes that others have mentioned certainly didn't apply at my DD's school..... for example, there was no dining hall option for a meal before an early morning practice.... and the coach let them go so late that there was rarely time to stop at the dining hall after practice/before class..... so if we didn't provide DD with some food for her room, she didn't eat! How can you tell an adult athlete with a 2 hour practice that they can't eat??? And we are paying for a full dining plan (as required for freshman) so breakfast was a meal that we paid for every day but weren't able to get.

As far as things to do BEFORE the college application process starts.... BE INVOLVED (second only to getting good grades!). DD spent SO MUCH time on her sport and grades, there wasn't much time to be involved in anything else. Thank heavens that she decided in 8th grade to become part of the Rainbow Girls! It gave her something besides a sport and honor societies to put on her applications! She was an A student, in multiple honor societies, top 15 of her graduating class of 200-ish, 4 year varsity athlete, NH Scholar Athlete, senior year all school-science award winner, outstanding scores on her SATs and ACTs, considered for a National Merit scholarship, AP student, etc.... but without those EXTRAS to put on her applications, they would have looked blank!! Be sure that your child gets involved in at least ONE activity outside of sports and academics.... theater, music, community service (such as scouting, volunteering, Amnesty Int'l, Leo club, etc), and stick with it for the next 4 years! Colleges want to see that you can handle more than just academics and have a balanced life.

DD didn't take any legit "college" courses during high school, but was able to place out of English and two semesters of college biology based on her AP exam scores..... but that being said, we are now being told that some Master's programs do NOT accept AP credits and she may be forced to go back and take the biology classes any how. But we will cross that bridge when we get to it. Since DD was able to get credit for so many classes, she was actually considered a Sophomore after her first semester, so that bumped up her lottery number for housing and class selections, so that was a nice perk. And it will allow her to have a bit more "free" time in her schedule to lighten her load during a study abroad semester (or two!).

All of that being said..... I also have a DS who is a sophomore in high school and he is a WHOLE DIFFERENT kettle of fish!! I will be encouraging him to stay at home for at least a year and attend community college. He is heavily into robotics and wants to be an engineer, but isn't the dedicated student that DD is. We have an in-state college that has started offering a two year degree in robotics and I think that is a great first step for him. That being said, he WILL graduate HS with some college credits, thanks to Project Lead The Way and his mom's checkbook! I could even see the potential for him to get a 2 year degree in just 3 semesters, if he buckles down over the next two years.

Best of luck to you and your student!........P

 

[sk!mom]

Best advice.... Save as much as you can! I would say that membership on a travel site is an indication that you will receive little aid.

DD17 is headed to college next year. She is 44th in a class of just over 600. She has a strong, AP heavy, transcript and a strong resume. Her top two choices and her safety school were all happy to have her but the aid offered is a drop in the bucket. She ended up choosing a state school sparing us having to tell her that Baylor was not going to happen with the scholarship they offered. She has a $5000 merit award from the state school and we are waiting on their final package which may include a bit more. As far as tips, we also paid off our mortgage several years ago and all other debt. We will tighten our belts and cash flow as much as possible. The rest will come from savings.

 

[goodfood4ursoul]

I will say, in our experience, where both kids went off to University, changed schools, went to community college for a time, then on to another 4 year University, that community college was a waste of time. It did allow our kids to stay as full time students for very little money to keep them qualified to be on our health insurance, so we were money ahead, but so few of the classes transferred (most notably, the classes listed by the community college as being accepted by the state university, which the state university did NOT accept), it was an academic waste of time.

The requirements of universities vary across the board, as well as the requirements of majors in colleges within the universities themselves.
Not every general CC level class will work in every major or degree program.

We found it a simple thing to work with the university our son wanted to attend and obtain their list of class equivalents in the community college system.
That enabled our son to choose classes at the community college that his degree program at the university already had agreed to accept.

All of the college classes he took at the community college as a part of the dual enrollment program at his high school transferred as exactly what they were.
He was done with all the general classes and only had his major classes and integrative classes and a couple of classes that are unique to his university to take.
He lost none of his community college class credits because we planned ahead.
When he finished HS and transferred his credits to the university he transferred in as a second semester junior.
That has saved him a lot of money in the long term, and time that he used for an internship where he gained valuable experience.

On another note, people often overlook scholarships that are associated with companies that they do business with, such as mortgage companies (Farm Credit) or insurance companies (Forester's).

One of the insurance companies we work with offered scholarships to members and our son applied and was given $6,000 in scholarships.
We've only paid about $1500 in premiums since we became members, so we see this as a wonderful benefit of working with Forester's for life insurance.

And finally, if your son has real interest in playing football in college, I suggest you visit prospective college's athletics recruitment pages.
Here is an example: http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?PID=10912

There is a lot of information to glean from these pages.
Also, many colleges offer summer sports camps for high school students that can help improve their skills as well as put them on the radar of the coaches of that particular school. That might be worth pursuing.

Not all Div. 1 schools are all about the athletics to the exclusion of the development of the individual's character, as well as academic and personal growth, which are obviously far more important in the long run.

I know of 2 young men who were offered full rides with the above linked university. One was an individual with celebrated talent and a record of success from a wealthy surburban high school team that had a history of winning seasons.
The other was a player with obvious potential on a rural, somewhat poor high school team with a history of losing seasons.
Both got full rides.
Use your common sense, do your research, talk to lots of people that you respect and know personally who have had kids in college.
Watch for those universities who might fall under your radar because one of those might be the one that is the best fit for your son and his talents, to fuel his future.

 

[madge]

We told DD to apply anywhere/everywhere she wanted and we would worry about the $$ after the fact. She applied to about 5 schools.... all private, varying sizes, a few ivy league. She only got one "no" from an ivy league school that we knew would be a reach. She was offered scholarships (merit based) from all of the others, of varying sizes. We didn't know enough at the time to use them to negotiate with each school.... we were just happy with what she was offered, since we qualified for virtually NO financial aid.

similar boat here. I had no idea you could ask to have your student's aid packaged reviewed until DS #2. I'm at a bit of a loss about how to make that happen. Any suggestions?

 

[Egdisney]

I think it is different. DD goes to UNL and did not qualify for the Regent or the one below. She qualified in all areas-3.85 with AP classes & top 15% though only scored 29 on her ACT. She did not get into the honors program either. She got the $1000 freshman scholarship. In hindsight, we should have forced her to take a class but she thought she could raise it on her own. 3 times taking it and basically the same score each time. She has gotten some minor scholarships sophomore year. I agree about saving early. When we first started, we only put $50 aside a month but it still added up. We added some small inheritances and those investments over time have really helped.

I think it is the same. My friend and sister could have used at any of the 3 schools in the system. You have to hit 30 to receive it.

 

[BurleyGirl]

I've learned a lot for the journey we too are embarking upon with my HS freshman DS. You guys are great!

 

[fairy8i8]

If he has the grades at the end of high school, definitely apply to the Ivy schools. They have a lot more scholarship money than many other schools, so they can end up costing less if your son is accepted.

My parents told me that my job in high school was to do well enough that I could get scholarships for college. My older sister had a job to make some money, and my dad felt that it affected her grades (she still went to Columbia University in NYC).

Other than scholarships, both DH and I feel that paying for college is the kid's responsibility. DH got scholarships/grants all the way through and was proud that his parents didn't have to pay for him. I had some loans, but I did things like study abroad in China. I also chose a school that was not too expensive. I guess I feel that it is better for us to have a good retirement fund so our children don't take on that burden rather than worrying about paying for their school. Lifespan in increasing a lot, and I have grandparents who lived into their 90s, so I expect to need a lot more to be able to support myself after 65.

Now don't get all over me for not doing my part. DH is a professor, so our kids can go to college very cheaply if they want to stay close to home. Think paying for the entire year with a summer job. I don't expect them to live at home, as I think living on your own during college is a great experience.

I am actually working on a project with my dad to help people see their options for college and help them make the most financially sound decision. There are a lot of great schools out there that are inexpensive or that have a lot of scholarship funding, or have dual BS/MS (or MD) programs so you graduate faster and have fewer years of paying for school for an advanced degree. I'll let you know when it is done.

 

[Kriii]

This is something I hear repeated both online and in real life often, but -- as a teacher of high school seniors -- it's not something I see played out in real life on a regular basis. I think it's something that happens just often enough that this idea persists. People for whom this works out talk about it, and others get the idea that it's common -- by the time the story's been passed around a couple times, it ends up sounding like this is something that any strong-average student can make happen! But that isn't factual.

If it appeals to you, you should absolutely seek out the small private schools that might provide such money, but -- at the same time -- choose a financial safety school, knowing that you're likely to be in the vast majority and will likely find that the school with the biggest price tag ends up being the school with the biggest price tag. My daughter was heavily recruited by a couple small schools, and we thought she'd investigate. They did indeed offer her a big scholarship -- more than the cost of a year at the state school! And she would've been at a tiny, lackluster college that doesn't offer the opportunities of the larger state school she's currently attending.
Yes, being a college athlete is very time consuming! However, you have to put that into perspective:

I haven't checked into this thread for awhile and just say this reply to my post, but Mrs. Pete is absolutely correct. I just want to clarify, in case I left a false impression. Though my child is attending a private school with scholarships bringing the cost down to a public school, we had three financial safeties she was also accepted at. Definitely no guarantee of the situation my child has. In addition, we did save so our out of pocket costs are only about 3-4K per year, which is less than high school cost. We also applied to schools that would be affordable without scholarships, so heaven forbid the scholarships are lost we will still be ok financially. Definitely have the financial safety, just don't think there is no way a private school would be affordable, because it just might be. There is no magical money tree. Save as much as you can.