National Merit Scholarship Program

[mom2rtk]

Furthermore, regarding MIT. MIT can and does meet the financial need of every single student that attends. And they know from the forms people fill out with their income, their assets, their liabilities exactly what that need is and hence what they can pay. And they will meet that need for every single student. So if your daughter didn't have the merit scholarships, they would have met her need from other funds anyway.

That sort of thing always made me wonder whether that plays a role in their selection of students. Take student A and it will cost us X. Take student B and it will cost us Y. Students all have great class rank, test scores, etc. Which one do you take? The one with more assets who will cost us less? It makes me wonder if it's harder for a student with less means to be accepted at a school that meets all need. I know I did see a story a while back about how so many international students are being accepted because their families can pay the full freight and didn't need any financial assistance.

 

[mom2rtk]

Although the college's assessment of what parents can "afford" to pay is often wildly different than what, in fact, parents can afford to pay. All colleges seem to think we can "afford" to pay 100% (well, less the federally guaranteed student loan, which is a small fraction of Harvard's tuition) of their tuition and fees, and that's considering the fact that we have twins who will be in college at the same time. We COULD pay it all if we wished to be destitute in our retirement years, but nearly $150K per year for 4 years isn't in the cards. (or the bank).

And, it does not matter to me what they call it...merit or need. All I care about is what they expect me to pay. LOL.

But that's true for everyone, right? If they overestimate what someone with a little savings can pay, they are also way overestimating what students with little means can pay. For many of them, it might as well be the moon.

 

[AppleDumpling]

That sort of thing always made me wonder whether that plays a role in their selection of students. Take student A and it will cost us X. Take student B and it will cost us Y. Students all have great class rank, test scores, etc. Which one do you take? The one with more assets who will cost us less? It makes me wonder if it's harder for a student with less means to be accepted at a school that meets all need. I know I did see a story a while back about how so many international students are being accepted because their families can pay the full freight and didn't need any financial assistance.

It depends on the individual college/university. Some schools have a "need-blind" policy, which means admissions decisions are made without consideration of financial need. Some are need-blind for domestic students but not for international students.

 

[mom2rtk]

​

It depends on the individual college/university. Some schools have a "need-blind" policy, which means admissions decisions are made without consideration of financial need. Some are need-blind for domestic students but not for international students.

I'd be curious if the schools promising to meet 100% of need (without loans) are the same ones with need-blind admissions.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

STOP.

Some schools take a students financial position into consideration when awarding merit scholarships. It's a fact. The schools that do this disclose it on their website. A dean's or presidents scholarship could range from $10,000-25,000. The amount awarded is based on many factors.

My daughter doesn't qualify for need based aid. We apparently make too much money and have way too much in assets.

It ISN'T a fact. You aren't understanding the terminology.
A president's scholarship isn't automatically merit aid. A president's scholarship structured with a need based component ISN'T merit based aid, its need based aid with a minimum academic requirement. True merit based aid is awarded based on merit alone.

 

[Poohforyou]

It ISN'T a fact. You aren't understanding the terminology.
A president's scholarship isn't automatically merit aid. A president's scholarship structured with a need based component ISN'T merit based aid, its need based aid with a minimum academic requirement. True merit based aid is awarded based on merit alone.

You can't know everything about how every college handles merit based scholarships so honestly just stop harping on what I'm saying. I know the facts for the schools my daughter applied to. That's all I'm speaking about. ENOUGH

 

[AppleDumpling]

I'd be curious if the schools promising to meet 100% of need (without loans) are the same ones with need-blind admissions.

There are a few in this category and obviously most are very competitive schools that are hard to get into. Not sure how accurate it is, but I found a compiled list on Wikipedia. Only a handful are need-blind and meet full demonstrated need for all students (US and international), including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Amherst College. There are a few dozen others offering this same deal for US students only: Boston College, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Stanford, UChicago and UNC Chapel Hill, to name a few.

 

[mom2rtk]

There are a few in this category and obviously most are very competitive schools that are hard to get into. Not sure how accurate it is, but I found a compiled list on Wikipedia. Only a handful are need-blind and meet full demonstrated need for all students (US and international), including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Amherst College. There are a few dozen others offering this same deal for US students only: Boston College, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Stanford, UChicago and UNC Chapel Hill, to name a few.

Thanks. One of those was the one I had questions about.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

You can't know everything about how every college handles merit based scholarships so honestly just stop harping on what I'm saying. I know the facts for the schools my daughter applied to. That's all I'm speaking about. ENOUGH

Actually, if you work in the field, you have to know these things to properly counsel students, so yes, I do in fact know a LOT about how colleges handle student aid and scholarships. I don't think YOU fully understand how they were handling things. BY DEFINITION it ISN'T a merit based award if it takes into account financial need, it is something else entirely and HAS, by law, to be handled differently.

 

[ctinct]

That sort of thing always made me wonder whether that plays a role in their selection of students. Take student A and it will cost us X. Take student B and it will cost us Y. Students all have great class rank, test scores, etc. Which one do you take? The one with more assets who will cost us less? It makes me wonder if it's harder for a student with less means to be accepted at a school that meets all need. I know I did see a story a while back about how so many international students are being accepted because their families can pay the full freight and didn't need any financial assistance.

Oh shoot. I posted just the quote above before I wrote my reply.

Yes, unfortunately, in some cases, those with more assets and ability to pay will be accepted at certain schools over someone else with the same stats but less ability to pay. When my daughter applied to her school, they were need- blind and promised to meet full need. By her senior year, they had become need sensitive. She was a tour guide and had to answer the question many times about need blind vs need sensitive.

 

[Poohforyou]

X

 

[Poohforyou]

Actually, if you work in the field, you have to know these things to properly counsel students, so yes, I do in fact know a LOT about how colleges handle student aid and scholarships. I don't think YOU fully understand how they were handling things. BY DEFINITION it ISN'T a merit based award if it takes into account financial need, it is something else entirely and HAS, by law, to be handled differently.

Why ate you fixated on me? My daughter got a merit scholarship. Several of the schools she applied to required FAFSA and SSA to be considered for merit scholarships not need based scholarships.

The original point of this thread is that NMF isn't actually based on a national standard. Each state has it's own cutoff. My original point was that my daughter's PSAT score would have earned her a semi finalist spot in almost every state except ours. That kind of stinks but then again she's getting a quality education here vs a lot of other states

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Why ate you fixated on me? My daughter got a merit scholarship. Several of the schools she applied to required FAFSA and SSA to be considered for merit scholarships not need based scholarships.

The original point of this thread is that NMF isn't actually based on a national standard. Each state has it's own cutoff. My original point was that my daughter's PSAT score would have earned her a semi finalist spot in almost every state except ours. That kind of stinks but then again she's getting a quality education here vs a lot of other states

Because you are handing out incorrect information that could be harmful to someone applying for scholarships, though it unintentional. As said before, anyone who takes any federal money must require those forms from all aid recipients. That doesn't mean what is contained is taken into account when awarding merit aid. I just want to make sure everyone is getting COREECT information. I would hate for someone to count on need being a factor when it simply isn't for merit aid.

 

[mefordis]

Why ate you fixated on me? My daughter got a merit scholarship. Several of the schools she applied to required FAFSA and SSA to be considered for merit scholarships not need based scholarships.

The original point of this thread is that NMF isn't actually based on a national standard. Each state has it's own cutoff. My original point was that my daughter's PSAT score would have earned her a semi finalist spot in almost every state except ours. That kind of stinks but then again she's getting a quality education here vs a lot of other states

If one is applying for a merit scholarship, there should not be a need for financial information to be disclosed. I have to lean toward agreeing with you. If they ask for that info, they want it for a reason and will probably use it to make decisions.

 

[North of Mouse]

If one is applying for a merit scholarship, there should not be a need for financial information to be disclosed.

I think some of the confusion in this thread is the word 'merit'. There are other merit scholarships that are offered by various companies and colleges for precise $$ amounts, or may be linked to need also. Our ds did 'not' apply for the one he had - the school 'nominated' him.

The 'National' Merit Scholarship has absolutely nothing to do with 'need' and no financial info is needed or asked for (no federal monies involved) We filled out 'no' papers. Our ds attended a university with a full ride (chosen from 4 that he had a letter of invitation to).

 

[Bilberry]

I wish I knew how the scholarship awarding worked. I heard this morning that my smart oldest nephew has applied to 7 schools. 3 Universities have so far responded with a yes and offered scholarships.

The news I heard this morning is that the nephew has set his sights the most on a University in the state of Oklahoma that his girlfriend has decided to attend. It's lower down on the prestigious list but has all the prestige needed with her there. He hopes and expects to win the Presidential scholarship from the school. If that happens I'm not sure what that prize entails but I am wishing him the best of success in obtaining that goal.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

If one is applying for a merit scholarship, there should not be a need for financial information to be disclosed. I have to lean toward agreeing with you. If they ask for that info, they want it for a reason and will probably use it to make decisions.

They are REQUIRED to ask for it, and report it to the feds on all aid recipients if they take federal money. They love their demographics. That doesn't mean they take it into account to award merit aid.

 

[georgina]

They are REQUIRED to ask for it, and report it to the feds on all aid recipients if they take federal money. They love their demographics. That doesn't mean they take it into account to award merit aid.

Based on your previous posts, I was agreeing with you, but I am confused by this one. My children received merit scholarships from schools with no financial aid application at all. We did not even bother to fill out the FAFSA for the last 2 because we knew they did not qualify for financial aid.

 

[gemini2727]

To receive any scholarship at my daughter's college, even one totally merit based, FAFSA had to filled out. My daughter received a certain SAT score, and she qualified for a certain amount, no more to it. The FAFSA was still required to claim the award.

 

[Sadie22]

Same as above.