Nanny / Caregiver Issue

[roseaster]

I live in a 300 year old town, and not everything has access. Not all schools are wheelchair accessible. Sometimes students who sustain an injury and need elevator access have to switch elementary schools for a while. So many buildings were built a long time ago.

Our school system got sued for that. They were required to install an elevator in the 1 non accessible building.

 

[frndshpcptn]

I was just saying that NYC is unique because most places in the US don't have condo buildings that are generations old. Yes a 300 year old town may have some public buildings that are not accessible but I would imagine most apartment complexes and condo buildings are at least accessible to the first floor. If the OP owns their apartment in an older building 3 steps in and out with no ramp or lift wouldn't be uncommon here at all.

Exactly (although we have more than 3 steps )

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I was installing the car seat with the baby in it while the stroller folding was happening. I could hear it, but was in the middle of trying to strap in the seat so we could all hop in and go.

It's been a while since I had a baby, but aren't car seats supposed to be installed without the baby in them, so you can put your knee in the seat and push it down so it's taut? If so, then I will gently point out that you and your husband aren't perfect either, apparently.

And have you considered having her, say, bring the baby in the house first, making sure she's safe, then going back out to get the stroller, so the baby is not actually in the stroller when it's being brought up and down the stairs? Honestly it sounds like anyone could have an accident in that situation while the baby is in the stroller. There are lots of different ways to look at any given situation.

You mentioned a language barrier. I take it this nanny is from another country? It seems to me there would be a wealth your child could learn about another culture which might "offset" any awkward things she has to say "politically". You will never be able to control everything your child sees and hears. I always felt like things like what your nanny said became talking points for me and my children. They developed a well-rounded view and were able to think through both sides of an issue from hearing all kinds of crazy things from a good variety of people in their lives. Ymmv

My mother helped watch my kids for me, and I also hired a bunch of caregivers along the way - I had twins so I always had two people there since my mother was older at the time. I never found a perfect hired caregiver - they all had their pros and cons. Things sometimes drove me crazy, but I knew my alternative was to quit my job and stay home and care for them myself. I tried to focus on whether they were happy and healthy in their care, and that was the deciding factor. I did have to let a couple go, and it was hard, but you do what you have to do. As for my mother being older, she was pretty mobile and such, but she always told a lot of stories from her youth (which could be dicey at times ), sang songs, made them hot cinnamon buns and their favorite foods, and served them with love. The tables are turned now and they are helping care for her. My point is, don't be afraid to let your child be exposed to people who aren't necessarily exactly like yourself. It can be a great experience for them.

Good luck with your decisions. Being a parent is hard, and not for the faint of heart!

 

[mjkacmom]

Our school system got sued for that. They were required to install an elevator in the 1 non accessible building.

I think here it depends on the costs involved. Sometimes it isn't possible to retrofit a 100+ year old building.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

I think it would be hard to back track and get things on a more professional basis. Obvious politics is out of bounds. Getting the gift train started is asking for trouble.

I'm not sure what is legal to discuss in terms of mobility. OP knew she had limited mobility. I would never trust what someone "says" when my eyes tell me something different. I suppose (during the interview) the prospective nanny could have been invited to sit on the floor with baby and parents during tummy time or something. If she refused, there's your answer.

I understand OP went through a difficult time, and I am glad she's feeling better. Some of this may be a learning curve for the next nanny. I hope it's helpful.

The op could do it, but she might feel uncomfortable and that is fine. First, the op should say something like - Thank you so much for getting me these items, and I should not have accepted them. I made a mistake in doing that and I am sorry. We need to keep our relationship on a business level so no more gifts. I do also enjoy our conversations, but you should never talk about anything political or your personal beliefs when you are on the job or near my child. I also see that you are having problems going up the stairs and need assistance with the railing. How are you safely going to handle the baby when you have an emergency or no one is here to help you? Can you please demonstrate so I can see you do it? Maybe the nanny will realize she can't do the job and quit. Maybe the nanny will surprise OP.

It would be interesting to hear the nanny's side of the story.

 

[frndshpcptn]

It's been a while since I had a baby, but aren't car seats supposed to be installed without the baby in them, so you can put your knee in the seat and push it down so it's taut? If so, then I will gently point out that you and your husband aren't perfect either, apparently.

And have you considered having her, say, bring the baby in the house first, making sure she's safe, then going back out to get the stroller, so the baby is not actually in the stroller when it's being brought up and down the stairs? Honestly it sounds like anyone could have an accident in that situation while the baby is in the stroller. There are lots of different ways to look at any given situation.

You mentioned a language barrier. I take it this nanny is from another country? It seems to me there would be a wealth your child could learn about another culture which might "offset" any awkward things she has to say "politically". You will never be able to control everything your child sees and hears. I always felt like things like what your nanny said became talking points for me and my children. They developed a well-rounded view and were able to think through both sides of an issue from hearing all kinds of crazy things from a good variety of people in their lives. Ymmv

My mother helped watch my kids for me, and I also hired a bunch of caregivers along the way - I had twins so I always had two people there since my mother was older at the time. I never found a perfect hired caregiver - they all had their pros and cons. Things sometimes drove me crazy, but I knew my alternative was to quit my job and stay home and care for them myself. I tried to focus on whether they were happy and healthy in their care, and that was the deciding factor. I did have to let a couple go, and it was hard, but you do what you have to do. As for my mother being older, she was pretty mobile and such, but she always told a lot of stories from her youth (which could be dicey at times ), sang songs, made them hot cinnamon buns and their favorite foods, and served them with love. The tables are turned now and they are helping care for her. My point is, don't be afraid to let your child be exposed to people who aren't necessarily exactly like yourself. It can be a great experience for them.

Good luck with your decisions. Being a parent is hard, and not for the faint of heart!

A good point about the car seat - but this one is meant to pop out of the stroller with the baby in it and be put right into a cab (without having to take the baby out and put her on the seat or something). It's a European style that works well for NYC living.

I think if she left the stroller on my sidewalk, and brought the baby up in the car seat, it would be gone before she could get up to the apartment and then back down!

I have no problem with the baby being exposed to people from a variety of backgrounds - I live in one of the most diverse places in the world for a reason. What I'm not ok with is someone telling the baby (obviously when she is much older) things that go directly against our beliefs or could hurt her feelings as she grows.

 

[frndshpcptn]

The op could do it, but she might feel uncomfortable and that is fine. First, the op should say something like - Thank you so much for getting me these items, and I should not have accepted them. I made a mistake in doing that and I am sorry. We need to keep our relationship on a business level so no more gifts. I do also enjoy our conversations, but you should never talk about anything political or your personal beliefs when you are on the job or near my child. I also see that you are having problems going up the stairs and need assistance with the railing. How are you safely going to handle the baby when you have an emergency or no one is here to help you? Can you please demonstrate so I can see you do it? Maybe the nanny will realize she can't do the job and quit. Maybe the nanny will surprise OP.

It would be interesting to hear the nanny's side of the story.

She has been practicing going up and down the steps with us, so we could see how she does. I stayed home one morning this week, to do it with her. She admits she has trouble with the stairs.

You are right, though, I should not have accepted the gifts and I do need to say no more. I've told her several times she doesn't need to profusely thank me every night, but she still does it.

I will also for sure mention the political conversation - I think I was just too surprised when it initially happened and just abruptly changed the subject instead of telling her directly it made me uncomfortable.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

She has been practicing going up and down the steps with us, so we could see how she does. I stayed home one morning this week, to do it with her. She admits she has trouble with the stairs.

You are right, though, I should not have accepted the gifts and I do need to say no more. I've told her several times she doesn't need to profusely thank me every night, but she still does it.

I will also for sure mention the political conversation - I think I was just too surprised when it initially happened and just abruptly changed the subject instead of telling her directly it made me uncomfortable.

How did you communicate with the nanny when you were helping her practice? Are you worried about hurting her feelings and you don't like to confront problems? I am really trying to understand this. It would have been a great time to tell her your fears when she was practicing going up and down the stairs with you.

 

[roseaster]

I think here it depends on the costs involved. Sometimes it isn't possible to retrofit a 100+ year old building.

Cost didn't matter. It violated the ADA and the child's parents sued the school system. The BOE was required to install an elevator. The building was built somewhere around 1900.

Mind this was a permanently disabled child, it wasn't a case of an injury. It was a good number of years ago, I was still in school although the child was younger than me.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Many people would have trouble with steep stairs and a big stroller with a car seat attached.

 

[kimblebee]

There isn't a storage room on the main floor that the stroller could be stored in? An out of the way corner somewhere? Maybe the super could find a spot for a stroller for $20 a month.

 

[Sabeking]

No offense OP but I don't think I would want to work for you if you couldn't just sit down and have an honest conversation with me about all of your concerns. I truly don't mean it in a snarky way, but as an adult I think communication with her is key since your baby is the highest priority.

 

[Juliet25]

ITA with this I think you are nitpicking because the grass looks greener on your friend's side of the fence. Have you considered the fact that they make not be telling the full truth about how "wonderful" their nannies are? The Mommy Wars crowd do that kind of thing all the time to make their lives seem better than they are.

Right on. Take those comments with a grain of salt. It's like those women who gush about their husbands on Facebook to make it seem like he's the perfect man and she chose so well ... when in private all she does is complain. No one will admit that they're just "meh" on their nanny. They have to tell you that their nannies love their children as their own and they're practically perfect in every way.

 

[mjkacmom]

Cost didn't matter. It violated the ADA and the child's parents sued the school system. The BOE was required to install an elevator. The building was built somewhere around 1900.

Mind this was a permanently disabled child, it wasn't a case of an injury. It was a good number of years ago, I was still in school although the child was younger than me.

I believe that happened where you live. In my state, cost does matter. Our elementary school finally got an elevator when they did a new construction project, which is when many of these ADA requirements are implemented.

 

[North of Mouse]

Haven't read this whole thread, but, to me, carrying a baby in a stroller down stairs/upstairs would be very dangerous no matter 'who' (one person) was doing it!! Hope that is not what is happening in this case, but sure seems that way from what I've read. An accident waiting to happen.

 

[Nancyg56]

I think she's made up her mind also. And that's okay. I think the bigger selling point is getting her DH to agree to this as he thinks she's being nitpicky.

I think that she is nit-picky too. I dont disagree that she should follow her gut and find a new nanny, but she should just own that. Whatever the driver is, that is valid. Once she starts adding the little issues she starts losing credibility, I think. If my DH wanted to make a change in childcare (not applicable in my case BTW) I would want to know why. Nanny can't manage the stairs. Mobility is going to become a compounded issue once the baby is a toddler wunnig at the spped of light. Getting too and from play grounds and moving quickly enough in the event of a fall, etc is a growing concern.... And he wants to make the change before the mobility problem expands to a bonding and seperation issue with the baby. Fine. We really need to look at this and make a decision.

If he said Nanny fumbled with the stroller, cannot lift the thing, speaks broken english, feeds the kid too often, has conservative politics, slurps her tea. blah blah blah.... I would stop listening. I am not saying there would not be an issue, but the issue is lost in the noise. Now I know that the OP suffered from PPD, and with all the "noise" in her complaint, the DH may be only hearing that, and blaming her PPD.

 

[roseaster]

I believe that happened where you live. In my state, cost does matter. Our elementary school finally got an elevator when they did a new construction project, which is when many of these ADA requirements are implemented.

We live in the same state.

 

[mjkacmom]

We live in the same state.

Well, maybe there wasn't another feasible option - we have 5 elementary schools, 2 with elevators. Here is some information I found on public schools:

A. Public schools are covered under Title II of the ADA which covers "public entities." The two key provisions of Title II are that public entities must provide (1) program access (2) in an integrated setting unless separate programs are necessary to ensure equal benefits or services. Program access under Title II means that school districts are required to operate their programs so that when viewed in their entirety they are accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities. This applies to all existing facilities.

Making structural improvements to an existing building such as installing ramps or elevators is one way of achieving program accessibility. However, structural accessibility is not required if there are alternative means of achieving program access such as providing the service at an accessible site, relocating a class or activity to a different room in the building, or having library staff retrieve books for students or teachers who use wheelchairs. Auxiliary aids and services such as interpreters would have to be provided if necessary for effective communication at school programs, conferences and other activities.

School districts are not required to take any action that would result in a fundamental alteration of the nature of the program or activity or in undue financial and administrative burdens. However, public entities must take any other action that would not result in a fundamental alteration or undue burden but would ensure that individuals with disabilities receive the same benefits and services offered to others without disabilities.

Q. Isn't the undue burden standard a legal loophole that will allow school districts a convenient way to avoid their responsibilities?

A. Providing program accessibility is not expected to result in undue burdens for most public entities. All resources of the public entity available to fund and operate the program must be considered. In addition, claiming undue burden does not relieve a public entity of all obligations to individuals with disabilities. They must still provide program access through means that would not result in a fundamental alteration or undue financial or administrative burden.

Keep in mind that any decision that achieving program accessibility would result in a fundamental alteration or create undue burdens must be made by the school district superintendent or the senior official who has budgetary and spending authority for the school district, or a staff person designated by that official. The reasons for such a decision must be presented in writing.

Q. Must school districts eventually remove architectural barriers from all their existing buildings?

A. Not necessarily. If school districts can provide program access without making structural alterations, they are not obligated by the ADA to remove those architectural barriers.

When there is no alternative means to achieve program accessibility, however, structural changes will be necessary, unless this would impose undue burdens on the district.

 

[roseaster]

Well, maybe there wasn't another feasible option - we have 5 elementary schools, 2 with elevators. Here is some information I found on public schools:

A. Public schools are covered under Title II of the ADA which covers "public entities." The two key provisions of Title II are that public entities must provide (1) program access (2) in an integrated setting unless separate programs are necessary to ensure equal benefits or services. Program access under Title II means that school districts are required to operate their programs so that when viewed in their entirety they are accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities. This applies to all existing facilities.

Making structural improvements to an existing building such as installing ramps or elevators is one way of achieving program accessibility. However, structural accessibility is not required if there are alternative means of achieving program access such as providing the service at an accessible site, relocating a class or activity to a different room in the building, or having library staff retrieve books for students or teachers who use wheelchairs. Auxiliary aids and services such as interpreters would have to be provided if necessary for effective communication at school programs, conferences and other activities.

School districts are not required to take any action that would result in a fundamental alteration of the nature of the program or activity or in undue financial and administrative burdens. However, public entities must take any other action that would not result in a fundamental alteration or undue burden but would ensure that individuals with disabilities receive the same benefits and services offered to others without disabilities.

Q. Isn't the undue burden standard a legal loophole that will allow school districts a convenient way to avoid their responsibilities?

A. Providing program accessibility is not expected to result in undue burdens for most public entities. All resources of the public entity available to fund and operate the program must be considered. In addition, claiming undue burden does not relieve a public entity of all obligations to individuals with disabilities. They must still provide program access through means that would not result in a fundamental alteration or undue financial or administrative burden.

Keep in mind that any decision that achieving program accessibility would result in a fundamental alteration or create undue burdens must be made by the school district superintendent or the senior official who has budgetary and spending authority for the school district, or a staff person designated by that official. The reasons for such a decision must be presented in writing.

Q. Must school districts eventually remove architectural barriers from all their existing buildings?

A. Not necessarily. If school districts can provide program access without making structural alterations, they are not obligated by the ADA to remove those architectural barriers.

When there is no alternative means to achieve program accessibility, however, structural changes will be necessary, unless this would impose undue burdens on the district.

LOL. Oh My! Perhaps your district hasn't, yet, been sued? LOL.

 

[mjkacmom]

LOL. Oh My! Perhaps your district hasn't, yet, been sued? LOL.

Snarky? Nope, and there are definitely a lot on ADA non compliant businesses that would go out of business if forced to comply. When building modifications are being made for other reasons, that's when updates are made, or new construction.