My FP+ success story ..

[Laketravis]

Seems pretty clear to me Lake is saying that under the current system the value a guest gets from FP+ is limited because you only get three attractions per day [without lines via FP] and you have to wait in long lines for everything else.

I take it you disagree with that. I suppose you find value in those conditions; I don't. And that's fine because value is subjective. Here, I'll even word the same thing another way for you:

"I think there is limited value in only three FP's and long lines for everything else".

Exactly which part of that do you disagree with? I think it's the part about long lines? Are you suggesting that there are never long lines for everything else? Beyond that, it does seem a bit unusual that you and another poster would dwell so much on my value comment and try to refute it while promoting your own - are you concerned that others agree with me? Why would that be of such concern to you?

While I get where you are coming from on Lake's post, the reason the data supports it is because for so many rides wait times have increased. His statement would be more accurate if he had said "Unless you are satisfied by sleeping in and getting walk ons for three rides then standing in longer lines, embracing FP+ is hard". I would assume that's what he meant. He didn't preclude explicitly doing more than 3 rides, but I can see that interpretation.

That is what I meant. Apparently I need to spell things out in much more detail so the meaning is not misinterpreted. But then, I've also been admonished more than once for providing too much detail. Maybe some day I'll find a middle ground that satisfies the resident wordsmiths.

Although it does seem my explanation in regards to yield management and it's effect on queue times has escaped the attention of some who should have read it.

 

[wisblue]

I take it you disagree with that. I suppose you find value in those conditions; I don't. And that's fine because value is subjective. But it does seem a bit unusual that you and another poster would dwell so much on my value comment and try to refute it while promoting your own - are you concerned that others agree with me? Why would that be of such concern to you?

Speaking for myself, I am not disagreeing with your value judgment. That is your personal opinion.

I simply disagree with your statement that FP+ limits you to 3 rides with short waits and long lines for everything else. Or, are you now going to say that that isn't what you said or meant either? I'm just having trouble coming up with any other interpretation to these words:

"If you are okay with three attractions per day and having to wait in long lines for everything else, then you'll probably see value in it."

In our recent visits, we have been able to do many more than 3 attractions per day with short waits by using rope drop, FPs (both the initial 3 and subsequent ones) and doing other attractions with short waits at other times of the day.

 

[Laketravis]

I disagree with your statement that FP+ limits you to 3 rides with short waits and long lines for everything else.

Well, that seems to be a perpetual disagreement among more than just you and I for several years running now.

Not to mention the topic itself is a moving target - there are still some days left where you don't even need FP.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I take it you disagree with that. I suppose you find value in those conditions; I don't. And that's fine because value is subjective. But it does seem a bit unusual that you and another poster would dwell so much on my value comment and try to refute it while promoting your own - are you concerned that others agree with me? Why would that be of such concern to you?

Lost me there, buddy! You suppose I find value in what conditions? You can't possibly mean 3 attractions via FP and long lines for everything else. I'd have thought it was painfully obvious by now that I wholeheartedly disagree that that situation exists.

If you are asking.....did I find value on Dec 30 riding the top three attractions in both Hollywood Studios and the MK, those 6 attractions among 15 total attraction we rode with a collective wait time of about an hour, while also seeing two incredible fireworks displays and enjoying DJ dance parties in several places in the MK, all this while spending from about 7:30 am to 1:30 am in the parks (we could have stayed longer), with a break at a gorgeous monorail resort in between that allowed for a nice meal, some down time, and a dip in the pool? Well, sure I did, because that is what one can easily accomplish with FP+.

And I thought that is partly what this thread is about, discerning what can be done under the FP+ system as it exists......as opposed to your fictitious 'only three rides and long lines for everything else'.

 

[Laketravis]

Lost me there, buddy! You suppose I find value in what conditions? You can't possibly mean 3 attractions via FP and long lines for everything else. I'd have thought it was painfully obvious by now that I wholeheartedly disagree that that situation exists.

If you are asking.....did I find value on Dec 30 riding the top three attractions in both Hollywood Studios and the MK, those 6 attractions among 15 total attraction we rode with a collective wait time of about an hour, while also seeing two incredible fireworks displays and enjoying DJ dance parties in several places in the MK, all this while spending from about 7:30 am to 1:30 am in the parks (we could have stayed longer), with a break at a gorgeous monorail resort in between that allowed for a nice meal, some down time, and a dip in the pool? Well, sure I did, because that is what one can easily accomplish with FP+.

And I thought that is partly what this thread is about, discerning what can be done under the FP+ system as it exists......as opposed to your fictitious 'only three rides and long lines for everything else'.

I think your stated ability to participate in 12 attractions with an aggregate total wait time of an hour on 12/30 is still the subject of debate.

Regardless, let's apply the same semantic requirements to your statements as you do mine. Are you suggesting that everyone can "easily" accomplish what you claim to have every day? Do they have to adhere to your split stay schedule or can it all be accomplished in a single visit? Do they have to take all attractions in the same order?

 

[wisblue]

Well, that seems to be a perpetual disagreement among more than just you and I for several years running now.

Not to mention the topic itself is a moving target - there are still some days left where you don't even need FP.

I don't need to debate with you the truth of the statement that with FP+ you can only do 3 attractions without long waits because I know for a fact that it isn't true. And, if you have found that to be true, it is a result of your own inefficient touring.

If others want to agree with your statement, they can feel free to weigh in.

 

[Shaden]

I don't need to debate with you the truth of the statement that with FP+ you can only do 3 attractions without long waits because I know for a fact that it isn't true. And, if you have found that to be true, it is a result of your own inefficient touring.

If others want to agree with your statement, they can feel free to weigh in.

Didn't we already establish that is not what he meant ?


And couldn't we say the same thing to anyone, including you wis blue, who claims the new system is better because you get more done or enjoy the trip more ??? Couldn't I just say that it's your fault due to your inefficient touring style under legacy fp ?

 

[Laketravis]

I don't need to debate with you the truth of the statement that with FP+ you can only do 3 attractions without long waits because I know for a fact that it isn't true. And, if you have found that to be true, it is a result of your own inefficient touring.

That is exactly what others are referring to when they talk about the admonishments they receive when they post that it didn't work your way for them. They are told they are doing something wrong, it's their own fault.

Shame on you.

If others want to agree with your statement, they can feel free to weigh in.

They have. And if you kept such meticulous notes on the posts by others as you do mine, you'd know that.

 

[wisblue]

Didn't we already establish that is not what he meant ?

No, we haven't established that that isn't what he meant.

If he didn't mean to say that you can only do 3 attractions without long lines, all he has to do is own up to the fact that his statement was inaccurate and/or poorly worded instead of backpedalling and acting so offended that his statements have been challenged.

 

[Laketravis]

No, we haven't established that that isn't what he meant.

If he didn't mean to say that you can only do 3 attractions without long lines, all he has to do is own up to the fact that his statement was inaccurate and/or poorly worded instead of backpedalling and acting so offended that his statements have been challenged.

Wis, try this: FP+

There should be plenty there to keep you occupied. Go get 'em, tiger!

 

[Shaden]

Didn't we already establish that is not what he meant ?


And couldn't we say the same thing to anyone, including you wis blue, who claims the new system is better because you get more done or enjoy the trip more ??? Couldn't I just say that it's your fault due to your inefficient touring style under legacy fp ?

No, we haven't established that that isn't what he meant.

If he didn't mean to say that you can only do 3 attractions without long lines, all he has to do is own up to the fact that his statement was inaccurate and/or poorly worded instead of backpedalling and acting so offended that his statements have been challenged.

Ummmmmm are you sure about that ? Can you back pedal too ? (just poking a little fun with the back pedal btw)

Seriously though, he was pretty clear that was what he meant.

It appeared that you whipped out Josh's analysis to support Lake's assertion that for the rides where you don't have FP+ you have to wait in long lines. That's not necessarily true, not by a long shot. Sure, for whatever reason some people will wait in the long lines that feed Josh's averages, but you don't have to. And again, averages can be very misleading. Does Josh accumulate data by day and by hour? That would certainly be more useful, allowing people to target when they use the standby lines.

While I get where you are coming from on Lake's post, the reason the data supports it is because for so many rides wait times have increased. His statement would be more accurate if he had said "Unless you are satisfied by sleeping in and getting walk ons for three rides then standing in longer lines, embracing FP+ is hard". I would assume that's what he meant. He didn't preclude explicitly doing more than 3 rides, but I can see that interpretation. Now, long lines aren't universally true, some days are going to be lighter, lower crowds, etc. You might have lower waits on those days. But even on those days, on average, after FP+, the waits are still going to be longer than they were before FP+. And if we are talking about "embracing FP+" for many that makes it difficult, especially when they used to not have problems getting those 3 FPs (or more) under the old system, even when sleeping in.

That is what I meant. Apparently I need to spell things out in much more detail so the meaning is not misinterpreted. But then, I've also been admonished more than once for providing too much detail. Maybe some day I'll find a middle ground that satisfies the resident wordsmiths.

Although it does seem my explanation in regards to yield management and it's effect on queue times has escaped the attention of some who should have read it.

 

[wisblue]

That is exactly what others are referring to when they talk about the admonishments they receive when they post that it didn't work your way for them. They are told they are doing something wrong, it's their own fault.

Shame on you.

Oh, so what you are saying is that YOU were unable to do more than 3 attractions in a day without long waits on your recent trip? I have no basis on which to question that that was your experience. And, no, I wouldn't be satisfied with that either, even if I had 16 days to do everything I wanted.

All you had to say was "On our recent trip, because of FP+, we were only able to do 3 attractions per day without long waits."

That would have been much clearer than what you actually said.

But, your suggestion that your experience will be the same for everyone is flat out untrue. Your willingness to defend those statements instead of admitting that they were over broad is simply laughable.

Maybe you should provide more details about how you spent your days so that you were only able to do 3 attractions with short waits. That way others who want to do more than that can learn how they can do more. After all, this forum is supposed to be about helping people get the most out of their future trips, not just to provide an outlet for people to complain about their unsatisfactory experiences.

 

[Hokie2000]

Seriously you people are ridiculous.

Referring to something as having a Pavlovian effect does not mean he is calling someone a dog. This is actually a relatively common reference among people who discuss motivation, appetite and aversion, markets and marketing, and business models. Really, get over yourselves. The irony is that you responded with insults, and haughty holier than thou responses, which to paraphrase an PP, says more about you than it does about Lake.

Pavlov's experiment and his findings apply to the nature of all living creatures, his findings, or their general indications, are used by many businesses/firms.

Just, wow.

Well golly gee, thanks for clearing that up, professor! I don't care what kind of mental gymnastics you need to go through to pretend that Lake wasn't trying to be insulting, his intention was crystal clear.

"Gotta hand it to Disney - they've pulled off an almost Pavlovian feat; causing some to feel simply victorious because they were able to reserve a trivial treat in advance and then boast of how their articulations only took X amount of time and resulted in success.

McDonald's must surely be watching this entire experiment with keen interest, in hopes of rolling out a mobile app so that customers can place an order of fries weeks in advance, arrive at the drive-thru during the proper time window to pick them up, and thus enjoy the manufactured satisfaction of the process as much as the actual end result.

That is one smart Mouse."

-and-

"Cannons to the left.... cannons to the right......yet the soldiers don't even understand my statement was a compliment to Disney."

So let's pretend that it is endlessly stated that something can't be done. Then you refute these statements by saying, well actually I just did it. Well, now the thing is trivial and people are shocked (SHOCKED) that you think it's some sort of accomplishment. It's the equivalent of saying "how cute, she thinks she's won something." Lake tries to be coy but his disdain for who he determines to be "Disney soldiers" is apparent in every thread I've seen him on. You're a little more open with your insults. I can respect that.

 

[wisblue]

Ummmmmm are you sure about that ? Can you back pedal too ? (just poking a little fun with the back pedal btw)

Seriously though, he was pretty clear that was what he meant.

I am not backpedalling at all.

Even the statements that you highlighted are not accurate. We have been able to do many things in the first few hours after the parks open without the standby lines being any longer than they used to be and before using any FPs.

 

[Shaden]

I am not backpedalling at all.

Even the statements that you highlighted are not accurate. We have been able to do many things in the first few hours after the parks open without the standby lines being any longer than they used to be and before using any FPs.

You said he didn't clarify his meaning I just bolder and underlined him doing EXACTLY that.

 

[Laketravis]

Well golly gee, thanks for clearing that up, professor! I don't care what kind of mental gymnastics you need to go through to pretend that Lake wasn't trying to be insulting, his intention was crystal clear.

So let's pretend that it is endlessly stated that something can't be done. Then you refute these statements by saying, well actually I just did it. Well, now the thing is trivial and people are shocked (SHOCKED) that you think it's some sort of accomplishment. It's the equivalent of saying "how cute, she thinks she's won something." Lake tries to be coy but his disdain for who he determines to be "Disney soldiers" is apparent in every thread I've seen him on. You're a little more open with your insults. I can respect that.

Get over it.

 

[Laketravis]

All you had to say was "On our recent trip, because of FP+, we were only able to do 3 attractions per day without long waits."

Maybe you should provide more details about how you spent your days so that you were only able to do 3 attractions with short waits. That way others who want to do more than that can learn how they can do more..

Spare me the grammar lessons. Tell you what, I'll forward all future comments to you first so you can proof them/screen them for me. Not.

You are among a small number of people who simply can't bear to see anything even remotely negative posted about WDW and when you do your absolute goal is to tear it apart word for word.

You bet this forum is about helping others with their trips to WDW. And that would include not promoting any pollyannish expectations that they are going to be able to do everything they want in the parks regardless of crowd levels and the size and composition of their group.

Because if it doesn't work out that way for them, well, according to you it's simply their fault and a result of their own inefficient touring.

 

[wisblue]

Wis, try this: FP+

There should be plenty there to keep you occupied. Go get 'em, tiger!

So, this is the best you can do now that you have been called out for making some blatantly inaccurate general statements.

The fact that there are people who have complained about FP+ is a whole different issue than whether or not you can do more than 3 attractions without long waits.

And this coming from someone who has cried the last few days about posts straying off point.

Shame on you.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I think your stated ability to participate in 12 attractions with an aggregate total wait time of an hour on 12/30 is still the subject of debate.

Shouldn't be. What is so mysterious about it? 4 rides at rope drop, 3 with FP+, a couple less popular attractions with short waits mid afternoon/evening, and a handful in the late night hours before closing. It was easy peazy!

Regardless, let's apply the same semantic requirements to your statements as you do mine. Are you suggesting that everyone can "easily" accomplish what you claim to have every day? Do they have to adhere to your split stay schedule or can it all be accomplished in a single visit? Do they have to take all attractions in the same order?

Absolutely, positively yes. Yes, it does require park hopping, preferably starting in the Studios or AK, but Epcot could work, with a finish in the MK. I'll maybe even let people choose some of their own attractions. It requires securing 3 FP+, the better you are able to get the nicer your experience. Without a doubt, I can guide anyone, even you, to 12 plus attractions a day with minimal waits, any time of year! You gotta be up early, sunshine, and stay up late, but I'll get ya there!

 

[Hokie2000]

Get over it.

You just can't stand being called out, can you? I'd say you're the one who needs to get over it.