Murdered Brooklyn boy

[NY Disney fan]

Eight is way too young to be walking in NYC by himself. I don't care how much he begged.

I agree with 100% but still and all, a child getting abducted by a psychopath is very rare (according to the cops). Children are more likely to get murdered by a family member than a stranger. This case was a freak occurance.

 

[punkin]

Eight is way too young to be walking in NYC by himself. I don't care how much he begged.

As tragic as all this is, I never had a problem with my child walking alone in my own, safe neighborhood. When DD(now 18) was 10, DH would put her on a subway in the morning and she would go by herself and get off at her school. A NYC street is much more populated and therefore safer IMO than a lot of semi-deserted suburban areas.

 

[7165red]

I remember Etan Patz too. God Bless both families and give them strenght to cope. I would be out of my mind, I know it.

 

[dfchelbay]

This story made me think of the lengthy thread, here, about the differing opinions between parents who are watchful of their children if they get very far away from them and parents who consider those parents "helicopter" parents...hovering over their children....some even found it humorous.

How terrible the death of this poor child is!!

Reminds me of what I ALWAYS said to the kids when they were younger, and I find myself even saying now to my small dogs..."stay where mummy can see you"

 

[Andtototoo]

Eight is way too young to be walking in NYC by himself. I don't care how much he begged.

It wasn't that he was 8. Or that he was in NYC. It was that unfortunately, his path crossed with that of a sociopath.

Just like my 10 year old neighbor girl who was nearly snatched while riding her bike with a friend on a suburban cul de sac on a sunny Sunday afternoon. She saved herself by (1) following her instincts -- the van without any windows made her nervous for a reason she could not identify but knew enough to listen to, so she moved away from the guy offering candy, pulling her friend with her and then (2) screaming bloody murder and running away behind houses, which made the guy take off when several of us moms came runnig out of our houses. The two adult males mowing their lawns opposite where the van stopped never noticed what was going on. This all happened in a midwest town of 2500.

Our local police believed that guy was the man responsible for a few weeks later successfully snatching the first of two girls off of bikes in separate incidents in rural areas and murdering them. (His name, we would eventually discover, was David Spanbauer.) The cops who came back and spoke to my neighbor after the first girl was murdered told us that they believe the incident on our street was his test run and when it failed he learned from it and decided to go to rural areas where no one would hear the girls scream. They also noted that sociopaths are smart enough to pick isolated areas for just that reason and said, "Safety lies in numbers." It was a great irony to me that having grown up around NYC and spent a lot of time in the city from a young age, I never had such a close encounter with evil until I lived in a midwestern town of 2500 people with a corn field 100 feet away.

What fascinates me is the media attention on this case when there are other cases of children being murdered that do not get a corresponding amount of attention -- even when the killer(s) are still at large. For example, in 2008, two girls were murdered in rural Oklahoma under similar circumstances to that poor boy in Brooklyn -- parents allowing their children a taste of freedom.

A few months ago 13-year-old Taylor Paschal-Placker started pressing her family for more independence, including freedom to walk the area around her home in rural Weleetka, Okla. Reluctantly her grandmother Vicky Placker, who along with Taylor's grandfather Peter had raised Taylor as their own child, agreed. "'You know, you've got to face it, I'm getting older,'" Vicky, 47, recalls Taylor saying. "So I started to let her walk in front of the house but reminded her, 'It don't matter how old you get, Taylor, 'til the day that I die, you gonna be my baby.'"

But on June 8 the family's worst fears came true. That Sunday afternoon Taylor and her best friend, Skyla Whitaker, 11, asked if they could walk a half mile up a dirt road to a bridge over a creek. "At first I told her no, but then I figured it would be okay because it was something they could do before Skyla's mother picked her up," says Peter, 48, a mechanic who moved the family from Oklahoma City three years ago in search of a safer environment. When the girls didn't return as quickly as expected or answer Taylor's cell phone, Peter went looking for them. He came upon their bodies in a ditch halfway to the bridge. They had each been shot multiple times—with two different guns—in the head and chest. SOURCE

So it wasn't that these girls were 8 or in NYC that resulted in their deaths. It was that they encountered a sociopath -- a sociopath whose identity is as yet unknown.

 

[JessicaR]

It wasn't that he was 8. Or that he was in NYC. It was that unfortunately, his path crossed with that of a sociopath.

Just like my 10 year old neighbor girl who was nearly snatched while riding her bike with a friend on a suburban cul de sac on a sunny Sunday afternoon. She saved herself by (1) following her instincts -- the van without any windows made her nervous for a reason she could not identify but knew enough to listen to, so she moved away from the guy offering candy, pulling her friend with her and then (2) screaming bloody murder and running away behind houses, which made the guy take off when several of us moms came runnig out of our houses. The two adult males mowing their lawns opposite where the van stopped never noticed what was going on. This all happened in a midwest town of 2500.

Our local police believed that guy was the man responsible for a few weeks later successfully snatching the first of girls off of bikes in separate incidents in rural areas and murdering them. His name was David Spanbauer. The cops who came back and spoke to my neighbor after the first girl was murdered told us that they believe the incident on our street was his test run and when it failed he learned from it and decided to go to rural areas where no one would hear the girls scream. They also noted that sociopaths are smart enough to pick isolated areas for just that reason and said, "Safety lies in numbers."

What fascinates me is the media attention on this case when there are other cases of children being murdered that do not get a corresponding amount of attention -- even when the killer(s) are still at large. For example, in 2008, two girls were murdered in rural Oklahoma under similar circumstances to that poor boy in Brooklyn -- parents allowing their children a taste of freedom.
So it wasn't that these girls were 8 or in NYC that resulted in their deaths. It was that they encountered a sociopath.

So true.

I know the area well and it is not unusual to see small children walking alone.

This story hurts my heart so deeply.

 

[punkin]

It wasn't that he was 8. Or that he was in NYC. It was that unfortunately, his path crossed with that of a sociopath.

Yes exactly this.

 

[Imzadi]

This in today:
The court appointed doctors/psychiatrists have found the alleged murderer/monster/sociopath mentally fit to stand trial.

His attorneys want to hire their own psychiatrists to do an evaluation.

I wish we had the death penalty in NYS.

 

[Magpie]

This story made me think of the lengthy thread, here, about the differing opinions between parents who are watchful of their children if they get very far away from them and parents who consider those parents "helicopter" parents...hovering over their children....some even found it humorous.

How terrible the death of this poor child is!!

I think of it as having faith. For my children's own good, I need to let them venture into the world on their own. And I need to let them start with small steps at a young age, gradually going further as they get older.

Sure, my children could run into a psychopath. That could happen at any age. In fact - more adults die every year at the hands of strangers, than children. My children could also get struck by lightning, and I view it much the same way.

So I read Gavin de Becker's book and follow his advice on "street-proofing" my kids. I also teach my kids not to take shelter under trees in a thunder storm. I use common sense.

Because I do believe that hovering over them every moment of the day would be harmful to them. So, rather than do harm to them myself, I choose to have faith.

As tragic as all this is, I never had a problem with my child walking alone in my own, safe neighborhood. When DD(now 18) was 10, DH would put her on a subway in the morning and she would go by herself and get off at her school. A NYC street is much more populated and therefore safer IMO than a lot of semi-deserted suburban areas.

I agree, completely!

 

[Imzadi]

As tragic as all this is, I never had a problem with my child walking alone in my own, safe neighborhood. When DD(now 18) was 10, DH would put her on a subway in the morning and she would go by herself and get off at her school. A NYC street is much more populated and therefore safer IMO than a lot of semi-deserted suburban areas.

I don't agree. There are so many cubbies, recessed doorways, alleyways, hidden stairwells, dumpsters to hide behind. The many subway entrances are now unmanned as budget cuts have forced the removal of fare booths & the live clerks.

We have muggings, robberies, serial rapists here reported on the news every day. The anonymity of so many people makes this a perfect place for predators to hide in plain site & blend in until an opportunity presents itself. We have a serial rapist every several months somewhere in the city. We even had a serial subway rapist, who dragged women off the platforms into the secluded areas of the tracks to rape them. There is currently a serial groper on the loose - reaching up women's skirts & groping them. (He better not run into me. )

The technology now is such that there are cameras placed on many street corners & in the subway platforms. But, just as in this case, they document things for AFTER the crime. There are too many street corners and not enough manned monitors to watch every street, every corner, every cubby at every moment to stop a crime at the moment it's happening.

As busy & well populated this place is, there are also lulls in street/sidewalk traffic and isolated pockets of areas to commit crimes. Nabbing a lightweight kid and chloroforming him to pull into a cubby would be easy. Since the Jaycee Duggard details of her snatching came out, I bet copycat chloroformings will be on the rise. It had actually gone out of style as a preferred technique to use.

Yesterday, they showed on the news, camera footage of a mugger who robbed an elderly lady in her wheelchair. Plucked her purse right off her lap, in front of the person pushing her and ran down the street - no one there to stop him. (Lull in street/sidewalk traffic.) Someone recognized him from the footage & reported him. It was a teen. What an idiot he was.


There is a current bill being introduced, called Leiby's Law, after this Brooklyn boy that was murdered. It would create safe havens at various community businesses, who place a sticker in their windows, where children can walk in if they are lost or in trouble and know the workers inside will help them. This way, they don't have to ask random strangers on the streets.

The problem is, it only works if the parents teach their kids about the stickers. The ones who are lax in keeping their kids safe to begin with, may also be the same ones who forget to teach their kids about the stickers, or to remind them until it sticks in their memories to go there when in trouble.

 

[stasijane]

I like hearing about the possiblity of Leibys law, I think that is a smart idea. I just wish such a horrible think didnt have to happen to such a innocent child.

 

[aprilgail2]

sad thing is this all could have been avoided if they had just given that little boy a cell phone before letting him off on his own. He is lost- just one call to his mom and reading off the street sign where he is she could have went and gotten him instead of him being left helpless with no means of contacting his parents!

 

[LisaR]

There is a current bill being introduced, called Leiby's Law, after this Brooklyn boy that was murdered. It would create safe havens at various community businesses, who place a sticker in their windows, where children can walk in if they are lost or in trouble and know the workers inside will help them. This way, they don't have to ask random strangers on the streets.

We used to have these types of stickers when I was a kid. I don't know what it was called or if was just our area/city but I clearly remember it for a reason. The premise was that, as children, if we felt unsafe, we could go to a house with a sticker and the homeowner would help. I think the schools might have given them out. The problem was, they didn't run any type of background check on the people that put them in their window. Unfortunately, the guy that lived a few blocks away with a sticker on his window was sexually abusing his own daughter. I hope this potential new bill has safeguards in place to really protect the kids.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

A reminder by Gavin de Becker, the leading security expert in the U.S, in his book, The Gift of Fear, is: Teach your kids to always ask a WOMAN for help. He says that males, in all times, all cultures and all species, are the deadlier of the species.

If that little boy had been taught to ask a woman instead, for help, they could have simply walked right by that heinous monster and she would have walked him all the way to his mom.

This is good advice and I just briefly told my kids the story of what happened and told them both if you ever need help please make sure you ask a WOMAN not a man. Period.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

In the case of Adam Walsh, his murderer (male) was believed to have been driving around, cruising the shopping mall, when Adam was put outside. Predators LOOK for opportunity. That is taken away when the child asks a woman for help instead.

Adam Walsh was abducted from INSIDE a Sears store at the Hollywood mall in Hollywood Florida. His mom was just a few isles away. He was standing inside the store playing a video game. He was not put outside.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Eight is way too young to be walking in NYC by himself. I don't care how much he begged.

This whole case is a perfect example of why you don't let your kids talk you into things you wouldn't normally do. Like let an 8 yr old boy walk 7 NYC blocks by himself. The very first time he tried he got lost.

I don't think any kid under teenager ages should be walking through any city without the parents. But I am QUITE SURE those parents realize the mistake and will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. I can't imagine having to live with that kind of tragedy and then the guilty feelings on top of that. I might lose my mind of that happened to one of my kids. I don't think I could ever get back up out of bed.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

I'm one man who will not bash posters for telling their children to approach a woman for help. I can understand and appreciate risk reduction.

My next comment is not directed at anyone on the DIS or anything that has been written in this thread. What I resent is the implication that all men are suspect or all men are potential predators. That is unfair and not a healthy message for boys to hear. When I was a kid in school, I hated attending presentations on sexual abuse because it seemed like a mandatory session of male bashing.

It is imperative that we teach these kids to go to a woman for help because these pedophiles and the child killers are MEN. The danger lies within going up to a man asking for help. NO not all men are murderers, but the murderers are usually men. Pedophiles and serial killers. MEN.
As a PP stated. Had THIS little boy asked for a woman to help him he would be alive right now.

 

[dandave]

I followed this case for the first week or so, but really haven't since. They know who murdered Leibby, and hopefully Levi Aron will be convicted.
Leibby could not have simply carried a cell phone if I understand correctly, as many here have suggested. He was an Orthodox Jew, whose religious beliefs did not even allow for a TV to be in the house.
Leibby approached Levi Aron, because Aron was obviously Jewish by his dress. That's what Leibby had been taught to do. This was in a community of Eastern Orthodox Jews who, because of antisemitism in Europe, didn't even trust the police. They had their own, internal, Shomrim. Because of the high numbers of Orthodox Jews in the community, the parents felt the Leibby was safe. Everyone there looks out for each other, plus the Shomrim have a heavy presence. Leibby should have been safe to have walked alone at 8, under all those circumstances. Unfortunately, he wasn't.

May Leibby Kletsky rest in peace.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

I think of it as having faith. For my children's own good, I need to let them venture into the world on their own. And I need to let them start with small steps at a young age, gradually going further as they get older.

Sure, my children could run into a psychopath. That could happen at any age. In fact - more adults die every year at the hands of strangers, than children. My children could also get struck by lightning, and I view it much the same way.

So I read Gavin de Becker's book and follow his advice on "street-proofing" my kids. I also teach my kids not to take shelter under trees in a thunder storm. I use common sense.

Because I do believe that hovering over them every moment of the day would be harmful to them. So, rather than do harm to them myself, I choose to have faith.




I agree, completely!

If these ppl had hovered their kid would still be alive. You can protect your child and not be a hovering parent. But letting them go roaming the city streets at such a young age trying to teach them life lessons about responsibility or whatever the lesson is suppose to be is exactly how kids gets snatched and murdered. So give your kids all the freedom you think they need with nobody hovering over them. But keep cases like this in the back of your mind before decided how much freedom to give those kids. Sometimes NOT hovering can cause a kid to become murdered. I will hover over my kid until he is 22 and moves out of my house if it will keep him safe and alive.

 

[dandave]

It is imperative that we teach these kids to go to a woman for help because these pedophiles and the child killers are MEN. The danger lies within going up to a man asking for help. NO not all men are murderers, but the murderers are usually men. Pedophiles and serial killers. MEN.
As a PP stated. Had THIS little boy asked for a woman to help him he would be alive right now.

That is one of the most ignorant posts that I have ever had the misfortune to read. Many women are pedophiles and murderers. Ignorance is a very frightening thing, and no good ever comes of it. Perhaps you could take the time to research the subject, before you spread that incorrect information further.