Murdered Brooklyn boy

[DisneyLoverUSA]

It wasn't that he was 8. Or that he was in NYC. It was that unfortunately, his path crossed with that of a sociopath.


So it wasn't that these girls were 8 or in NYC that resulted in their deaths. It was that they encountered a sociopath -- a sociopath whose identity is as yet unknown.

I do believe it WAS because they were 8 and IT WAS because they were in NYC. There is a common element. Children who are way too young to be navigating city streets and subways and buses on their own getting snatched and killed. Had they not been EIGHT, had they not been ALONE had they done been in the big scary NYC they may have all fared better in the end.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

That is one of the most ignorant posts that I have ever had the misfortune to read. Many women are pedophiles and murderers. Ignorance is a very frightening thing, and no good ever comes of it. Perhaps you could take the time to research the subject, before you spread that incorrect information further.

If it is the MOST IGNORANT thing you have ever read you must be living a very sheltered life. Read back a few pages to the other posters who have quoted a leading security expert who says to TEACH YOUR KIDS TO GO TO WOMEN FOR HELP NOT MEN because most predators are men NOT WOMEN.

I am just curious, name me some famous female pedophiles and women who have been convicted of snatching and raping and murdering kids. Names some.

Actually just see if you can even come up with ONE NAME of a woman who has kidnapped a child, raped them and killed them. Now once you Google that to see if you can come with just ONE name for me of a woman who has committed that crime. Now go Google all the men who have done it. You will have to start a new thread with the lists and lists of male pedophiles who have kidnapped raped and murdered children. A FACT is a FACT, most predators who prey on children are MEN, usually perverted pedophile and even homosexual child killers who want to have sex with little boys then murder them.

 

[dandave]

If it is the MOST IGNORANT thing you have ever read you must be living a very sheltered life. Read back a few pages to the other posters who have quoted a leading security expert who says to TEACH YOUR KIDS TO GO TO WOMEN FOR HELP NOT MEN because most predators are men NOT WOMEN.

I am just curious, name me some famous female pedophiles and women who have been convicted of snatching and raping and murdering kids. Names some.

I don't particularly have the time nor the desire to educate you. It seems quite the useless cause, in any event. I'll name you one, and her daughters.

Gertrude Baniszewski

 

[Piecey]

Adam Walsh was abducted from INSIDE a Sears store at the Hollywood mall in Hollywood Florida. His mom was just a few isles away. He was standing inside the store playing a video game. He was not put outside.

IIRC, Adam was placed outside the Sears store by the security guard.

I think that is what they mean- he was asked to leave the store.

**

This case has haunted me. I cannot imagine. RIP Leiby.

 

[Imzadi]

That is one of the most ignorant posts that I have ever had the misfortune to read. Many women are pedophiles and murderers. Ignorance is a very frightening thing, and no good ever comes of it. Perhaps you could take the time to research the subject, before you spread that incorrect information further.

Perhaps you should take the time & do further research. I already posted this on Page 1 & 2 and am re-quoting it. _I_ get my research from Gavin de Becker, one of THE leading security & threat assessment experts in the U.S. The suggestion to teach children to go to women came directly from him. I stand by the correct info and credible source I listed.

Here is Gavin's website & credentials:
https://www.gavindebecker.com/who_we_are/bio/gavin_de_becker/

A reminder by Gavin de Becker, the leading security expert in the U.S, in his book, The Gift of Fear, is: Teach your kids to always ask a WOMAN for help. He says that males, in all times, all cultures and all species, are the deadlier of the species.

If that little boy had been taught to ask a woman instead, for help, they could have simply walked right by that heinous monster and she would have walked him all the way to his mom.

This isn't about a debate with the men here. I hope they are mature enough to get past their ego issues. This is a LIFE OR DEATH ISSUE. The LEADING security expert in the country, Gavin de Becker, a male himself, says the odds and statistics of a woman being a pedophile or predator (working alone) are infinitesimally small compared to that of running into a man who is one. Those are FBI statistical facts. This situation alone PROVED it. He didn't seek out the boy, the boy stopped HIM.

How many cases do you know of where a woman, acting alone, not as part of a couple with a male pedophile as her mate, has committed famous molestation/rape murders of children?

In the case of Adam Walsh, his murderer (male) was believed to have been driving around, cruising the shopping mall, when Adam was put outside. Predators LOOK for opportunity. That is taken away when the child asks a woman for help instead.

Megan's law came about because a MALE pedophile was living in her neighborhood. She accidentally knocked on his door. Again, opportunity presented itself.

The majority of serial killers are male.

Pretty much, the famous women who murdered children, murdered their own: Casey Anthony, Susan Smith, and Andrea Yates, who drowned her five kids. They didn't go around killing other people's children.

Gavin was on Oprah several times talking about this issue. He says the reason you don't tell them to find a cop or man in uniform is BECAUSE pedophiles will dress up as one and approach a child. Like you told your kids, (not blaming,) children have been told to trust men/cops/security guards in uniforms. The predators are one step ahead.

On one of the shows, they showed a mock scenario where a child pretends he lost his mom in the middle of the shopping mall. Once another mom got whiff of the situation, hearing the kid call out for Mom, she headed over to the child, just as the suspicious looking male predator (planted there for the video scenario,) got to the kid first and was about to take him away "to help him look for his mother."

As soon as that mom heard what the mock predator said, it was like a maternal alarm went off - not only in her, but about two other mothers, who weren't even paying attention, dealing with their own kids, until that maternal alarm went off in them. It was amazing. They heard that mother telling the predator to leave the kid alone, she'd help him.

But, he insisted they were fine and was about to walk off with him. The mother grabbed the kid by the arm & put the child behind her. Then the other mothers gathered around, including a couple more. They almost ganged up on the predator until he left!


They showed another scenario where the "lost" kid when up to a mother, who already had her hands full, pushing a stroller, another kid in tow, loaded with a few shopping bags, and hurrying through the mall. As soon as he told her he couldn't find his mom, she stopped dead in her tracks, looked around for his mom, pulled him closer, asked where he saw her last, and she wheeled around to go back in the direction he pointed, talking and soothing him the whole while.

I've also witnessed myself (a couple of times) when a kid gets lost and a woman comes over to help. Usually another woman, a stranger to her, goes over to watch her, to make sure the first woman really IS helping the kid find his mom. (I'm standing by watching the two of them. ) The mother shows up & is embarrassed (but relieved) to find TWO moms with her kid.

This is what our maternal instinct does. It takes a village to watch over a kid. And when we know one is in trouble, for the most part, women help out.


BTW, I also was NOT blaming the boy's parents. It's a shame they didn't know to tell him to look for a woman. This is a friendly warning to help you all.

I don't particularly have the time nor the desire to educate you. It seems quite the useless cause, in any event. I'll name you one, and her daughters.

Gertrude Baniszewski

Interesting. Just read up on it on Wikipedia. But, this doesn't quite fit the "stranger danger predator" profile, nor was she a pedophile. This distinction in the difference in profile is KEY: The victim & family was already briefly acquainted with Gertrude Baniszewski, and had an ongoing relationship with her. The victim's parents arranged for the girls to stay with Baniszewski, which put her in an unnatural position of power & authority over the girls. The fact that the girls didn't pay the rent was the trigger that set Baniszewski off first to abuse then escalate to torture & murder.

 

[JessicaR]

I do believe it WAS because they were 8 and IT WAS because they were in NYC. There is a common element. Children who are way too young to be navigating city streets and subways and buses on their own getting snatched and killed. Had they not been EIGHT, had they not been ALONE had they done been in the big scary NYC they may have all fared better in the end.

The girls discussed above did not live in NYC. They lived in a rural area in Oklahoma.

Also it is worth mentioning again that we aren't talking the streets of NYC just an area in Brooklyn that is solely inhabited by Hasidic Jews. These children are not riding the subway and buses. Unless you are familiar with the people and the area their lifestyle is not easily imagined.

 

[LukenDC]

I do believe it WAS because they were 8 and IT WAS because they were in NYC. There is a common element. Children who are way too young to be navigating city streets and subways and buses on their own getting snatched and killed. Had they not been EIGHT, had they not been ALONE had they done been in the big scary NYC they may have all fared better in the end.

NYC is big, but it is not as scary as you seem to think. It is among the safest big cities in America. A few years ago, the FBI stats indicated that a person was at greater risk of being a victim of violent crime in Des Moines than in NYC.

Many horrible things happen in small towns and rural communities. I think that the liklihood of a child being snatched off the streets is much less in NYC than a smaller town because of the number of people around. This tragedy with Lieby happened because he willingly accompanied a predator thinking that he could trust another Jew.

 

[punkin]

I do believe it WAS because they were 8 and IT WAS because they were in NYC. There is a common element. Children who are way too young to be navigating city streets and subways and buses on their own getting snatched and killed. Had they not been EIGHT, had they not been ALONE had they done been in the big scary NYC they may have all fared better in the end.

I know in cases like these it is natural to try to distance yourself and your family from the tragedy by saying that won't happen to us because......

I get it, it's just that in this particular case, I can't do that. I would have done exactly as Leibi's mother did. I spent my childhood in NY (Queens, not Brooklyn) in a safe neighborhood where my mother let me run around as an 8 yo with all my friends whose mothers let them run around. We always had a bunch of Grandmothers sitting outside yelling at us (and watching us). I went to the store for my grandmother at that age.

Nothing ever happened to me or my friends nor does anything happen to the (literally) millions of children who still live that way in NY. Leibi and his family got unlucky. He came across a sociopath whom he thought trustworthy. That's it!

 

[Magpie]

If these ppl had hovered their kid would still be alive. You can protect your child and not be a hovering parent. But letting them go roaming the city streets at such a young age trying to teach them life lessons about responsibility or whatever the lesson is suppose to be is exactly how kids gets snatched and murdered. So give your kids all the freedom you think they need with nobody hovering over them. But keep cases like this in the back of your mind before decided how much freedom to give those kids. Sometimes NOT hovering can cause a kid to become murdered. I will hover over my kid until he is 22 and moves out of my house if it will keep him safe and alive.

And if he's murdered at 23 (young men are actually at the highest risk of becoming victims of violent crime), will you start advocating that mothers continue hovering over their children their entire lives?

Who protects you - a woman - from crime when you go "roaming the city streets"?

That said, I recently discovered on another thread that the idea of hopping into a car and just driving off on vacation with no itinerary and no way for my family to know where I'm staying and no plans to call anyone, is actually quite horrifying to me. So while some folks may consider me under-protective of my children, other people probably consider me over-protective of my immediate family members. I just want to know where they all are!

 

[TDC Nala]

Actually just see if you can even come up with ONE NAME of a woman who has kidnapped a child, raped them and killed them.

Melissa Huckaby.

OK, she wasn't a stranger to her victim. She was a neighbor. But the other particulars are very similar to this case, even down to hiding the body in a suitcase and dumping it. Except as far as I recall there hasn't been any sexual molestation alleged against Levi Aron.

 

[dandave]

Perhaps you should take the time & do further research. I already posted this on Page 1 & 2 and am re-quoting it. _I_ get my research from Gavin de Becker, one of THE leading security & threat assessment experts in the U.S. The suggestion to teach children to go to women came directly from him. I stand by the correct info and credible source I listed.

Imzaldi, Women can be and have been pedophiles. Women can be and have been murderers. Women can be and have been serial killers. Those are facts. To say otherwise is ignorance. Their numbers do not reach those of men, but evil women have and do exist. If you want to argue that point, which is the point I clearly made here, then go for it!

Interesting. Just read up on it on Wikipedia. But, this doesn't quite fit the "stranger danger predator" profile, nor was she a pedophile. This distinction in the difference in profile is KEY: The victim & family was already briefly acquainted with Gertrude Baniszewski, and had an ongoing relationship with her. The victim's parents arranged for the girls to stay with Baniszewski, which put her in an unnatural position of power & authority over the girls. The fact that the girls didn't pay the rent was the trigger that set Baniszewski off first to abuse then escalate to torture & murder.

Just read it on Wikipedia? Perhaps you should read about it on a real site. Wikipedia is a joke. Sylvia Likens was sexually molested with a Coke bottle. The parents did not know Gertrude at all. The father met her the day prior to leaving the girls in her care. She repeatedly tortured Sylvia Likens, and finally helped murder the teen.
Every adult woman who sleeps with a boy is a pedophile. Many, many women fall into that category. It makes them child molesters. Society's views seem to be a bit skewed on that front.
As for female murderers, I'm sure you can Google the list for yourself. Better yet, maybe you could Wiki it!

 

[Imzadi]

Melissa Huckaby.

OK, she wasn't a stranger to her victim. She was a neighbor. But the other particulars are very similar to this case, even down to hiding the body in a suitcase and dumping it. Except as far as I recall there hasn't been any sexual molestation alleged against Levi Aron.

I see you amended your post. Yes, she was acquainted to the victim. Not at all the same profile. She was best friends with the victim's mother and their daughter's played together.

As for chopping up the body & disposing of it in parts, according to the FBI, that actually is a common way to get rid of corpses. Much easier to hide & dispose of parts than trying to move a whole body undetected.

Ever see the old Alfred Hitchcock movie, Rear Window? Not so far fetched after all.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100510/A_NEWS/100519995/-1/NEWSMAP

"Both Sandra and Huckaby's families lived in the mobile home park. Sandra was a playmate of Huckaby's young daughter."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/12/national/main4937253.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4937253


[Snipping relevant parts & bolding & emphasis mine:]

Police and residents in Tracy responded with shock when the suspect in the murder of a young girl turned out to be a woman, the mother of the slain girl's best friend. . .

"This was an anomaly in the murder of a child," police Sgt. Tony Sheneman said at a news conference Saturday. "Finding out that it is a woman who is responsible for Sandra's kidnapping and murder, and then finding out it is a member of the community is another blow."

FBI statistics show women are involved in just 7 percent of murders of any sort.Solo killings of children by women are even more unusual.

"A review of data from the 2007 Uniform Crime Report confirms that the arrest of Melissa Huckaby in the Sandra Cantu murder investigation is uncommon," said FBI spokesman Steve Dupre in Sacramento.

"It's very unusual for women to be involved in an abduction and murder of a child," said Candice DeLong, a retired FBI profiler based in San Francisco. "Sometimes we see this when the woman is working with a male partner. It does not appear to be the case this time. But this was not a sexually motivated crime."

 

[Imzadi]

Perhaps you should read about it on a real site. Wikipedia is a joke. Sylvia Likens was sexually molested with a Coke bottle. The parents did not know Gertrude at all. The father met her the day prior to leaving the girls in her care.

Provide link please. According to what you just said, the parents were acquainted with her, even by one day and left the girls in her care which is exactly what I stated.

 

[Disney Doll]

I imagine that as a parent you are making "do I or don't I?" and "should I or shouldn't I?" decisions all the time with regard to your children.

The area where these folks live is an anomaly in NYC...a very contained area where the poppulation is, if not 100%, then 95% Hasidic Jew. So to allow this child to walk home from camp when he had been walked home several times, parents thought he knew the way, they figured he was in a neighborhood fo their own people who would help him and he has the extraordinary bad luck to run into the one wrong person.

I don't think we need to skewer them. They are probably doing a fine job f skewering themselves right now.

 

[Imzadi]

Imzaldi, Women can be and have been pedophiles. Women can be and have been murderers. Women can be and have been serial killers. Those are facts. To say otherwise is ignorance. Their numbers do not reach those of men, but evil women have and do exist. If you want to argue that point, which is the point I clearly made here, then go for it!

The info and suggestions I provided by Gavin de Becker and the other quote siting the FBI statistic of actual murders by women are designed to aid people in helping keep their children make statistically safer choices when they are in trouble. No one ever said going to a woman instead would be a 100% safe choice. It IS statistically a better option.


Your posts are just emotionally engineered to scatter fear and not give readers here a safer choice. I'm sure Disers here are smart enough to read through your posts.

Done with you.

 

[dandave]

The info and suggestions I provided by Gavin de Becker and the other quote siting the FBI statistic of actual murders by women are designed to aid people in helping keep their children make statistically safer choices when they are in trouble. No one ever said going to a woman instead would be a 100% safe choice. It IS statistically a better option.


Your posts are just emotionally engineered to scatter fear and not give readers here a safer choice. I'm sure Disers here are smart enough to read through your posts.

Done with you.

Done with me, huh? LOL! I'm quite certain that quite a few Disers are incapable of reading comprehension or researching a topic on credible websites. Some just regurgitate what they've heard, because they are incapable of original thought. It's a pity. Hopefully, some will be able to do valid research on their own and comprehend the written word, however.

For anyone who isn't "done with me," , think about Nancy Garrido, Wanda Ileen Barzee, and the wives of Warren Jeffs who held down his victims.

 

[Imzadi]

I imagine that as a parent you are making "do I or don't I?" and "should I or shouldn't I?" decisions all the time with regard to your children.

The area where these folks live is an anomaly in NYC...a very contained area where the population is, if not 100%, then 95% Hasidic Jew. So to allow this child to walk home from camp when he had been walked home several times, parents thought he knew the way, they figured he was in a neighborhood fo their own people who would help him and he has the extraordinary bad luck to run into the one wrong person.

I don't think we need to skewer them. They are probably doing a fine job f skewering themselves right now.

I don't think anyone is skewering the parents. It is an incredible anomaly. As you & someone else said, it is a very insulated community.

The last FBI statistics that Gavin de Becker quoted, which was years ago, was that there is one pedophile/predator per every ONE square mile in the U.S. (Don't know if that has gone up since that statistic.) Even if we theoretically add on another 2 pedophiles into that mile, accounting for the density of NYC. That within 7 blocks, which is less than a half mile, and Leiby, himself, approached one of them, the odds are probably astronomical.

What makes this situation worse, is that the alleged murderer left the boy alone on the street for 7 minutes while he went to pay his dentist bill. He hadn't set out to look for a victim that day. Current info out is there was no preexisting pattern of him harming boys before. In fact, he let the opportunity slip out of his hands, by leaving the boy alone instead of immediately running off with him. He also left a trail, by paying with a credit card, which was how he got caught.

In that time, Leiby could have asked someone else to help him instead. The chances of him running into that that second or third predator, on the same street and in the same block at the same time, is probably beyond astronomical.

This should have been the "first run" for Leiby & his mom. He got lost. Mom or someone safe helps reunite them, and she gets a chance to say, "Next time, remember to turn left at the donut shop," and they get to work through other scenarios & options in case he gets lost again. Like backtracking and staying at the deli they always go into, where they know him. And she could stop in there to look for him.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Done with me, huh? LOL! I'm quite certain that quite a few Disers are incapable of reading comprehension or researching a topic on credible websites. Some just regurgitate what they've heard, because they are incapable of original thought. It's a pity. Hopefully, some will be able to do valid research on their own and comprehend the written word, however.

For anyone who isn't "done with me," , think about Nancy Garrido, Wanda Ileen Barzee, and the wives of Warren Jeffs who held down his victims.

You mention 3 cases of women who worked with men. One of those cases was just a kidnapping and one of the cases was just a rape and marriage.

We are talking about REAL child predators that snatch and kill children.
As quoted by a PP the FBI STATISTICS show only 7% of child murders are committed by women as opposed to NINETY THREE PERCENT by males.

There have been a few cases of women serial killers in US history but they all usually kill grown people, men in particular. Not kids. As for grown women having sex with teenage boys. I am going to have to assume that probably 99% of that sex is consensual and nobody is being raped, kidnapped or murdered. Nobody is being chopped up and left in a dumpster.

I understand you are a man and you want to get defensive about men killers, but you are just going to have to be defensive and upset because facts are facts.

And the truth is, if a kid is in danger, lost or needs help in any way, they are SAFER stopping and asking a woman for help. EVEN COMMON SENSE would tell you that is the case. Insulting someone else's intelligence doesn't automatically boost your own, just FYI.

 

[dandave]

You mention 3 cases of women who worked with men. One of those cases was just a kidnapping and one of the cases was just a rape and marriage.

We are talking about REAL child predators that snatch and kill children.
As quoted by a PP the FBI STATISTICS show only 7% of child murders are committed by women as opposed to NINETY THREE PERCENT by males.

There have been a few cases of women serial killers in US history but they all usually kill grown people, men in particular. Not kids. As for grown women having sex with teenage boys. I am going to have to assume that probably 99% of that sex is consensual and nobody is being raped, kidnapped or murdered. Nobody is being chopped up and left in a dumpster.

I understand you are a man and you want to get defensive about men killers, but you are just going to have to be defensive and upset because facts are facts.

And the truth is, if a kid is in danger, lost or needs help in any way, they are SAFER stopping and asking a woman for help. EVEN COMMON SENSE would tell you that is the case. Insulting someone else's intelligence doesn't automatically boost your own, just FYI.

Which one of these cases was only a kidnapping??? Which fake child predators are you implying were in my list? Trust me, I don't feel overly intelligent arguing with you. I can barely comprehend your posts. I feel a bit of pity, a bit of wonder, but I don't feel that my intelligence has been boosted in any way.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Which one of these cases was only a kidnapping??? Which fake child predators are you implying were in my list? Trust me, I don't feel overly intelligent arguing with you. I can barely comprehend your posts. I feel a bit of pity, a bit of wonder, but I don't feel that my intelligence has been boosted in any way.

Did you already forget the examples you gave? Nancy Garrido is the wife of Phillip Garrido, who KIDNAPPED Jaycee Dugard. They didn't kill anybody.

The moms of the girls married to Warren Jeffs didn't kidnap anybody. That would be considered rape of the 12 yr old girl but nobody died there either.

You are trying to compare Apples to Oranges.

Wanda Ileen Barzee was THE WIFE of someone.

You still haven't given any names of women who are child murderers who snatched kids, raped or otherwise, then killed and dumped the kids.

If you are having trouble comprehending my posts I doubt it has anything to do with my intelligence. I wasn't actually referring to me. I could care less what you think of me. I was referring to you implying that someone who would look at Wiki for info must be stupid.

Your defensiveness doesn't bother me. Just makes me real curious WHY you are so defensive of child rapists and murderers.



You seem to want it really badly to not be true that most of these murders are committed by men but no matter how many times you click your heels together, the facts remain the same. You wanting it to be different won't make it any different.