Mousesavers "BASH" DVC!!

[crisi]

On one hand, she does have a point. I've been doing the math myself, and I figure that I'd want to use about 65 points a year- 5 nights (Sun-Thurs) in a studio in June, at 13 points a night. I would have to buy 75 points: that would cost me about $6000. If I invested $6000 and made 5% a year in interest, that would be $300 a year "lost" to the DVC in interest.
Then you add in dues: at approximately $4 a point, that's another $300 lost. So, I'm spending about $600 each year.
If I don't buy into the DVC and rent points instead, that would cost me 65 points at $10 per point, or $650 per year.
So, I can rent points for $650 per year, or own for $600- it's about the same, but renting lets me skip the big initial investment. I also get the flexibility of skipping years when I want to, going to different resorts, etc. Of course, this does not account for the fact that I may not always be able to find points to rent, cancelling/changing the reservation is difficult if not impossible, and I lose out on the DVC discounts. So, for now I'll be a renter. At some point, however, if I find myself going every year, making the DVC investment would certainly save me the time and hassle of renting points.

Don't forget to deplete your principle each year for your Disney trip. You'll have $6000 in the bank the first year, but only $5350 + interest (or so) the second year (after you pay for your rental points).

For us, its about six trips (the way we used to vacation) to pay off our DVC purchase. After that we are just paying dues.

And don't forget that historically (past performance is no guarentee of future performance) DVC has appreciated in value. We bought a contract in 2001 for $63 a point (150 points) - $9850 with closing costs. I've paid about $2500 in dues over the four years. We've only taken one trip - a 2 bedroom, and have another one scheduled. Those two trips are 452 points total - or $4520 in rental fees (more at rack rates). So I'm $12,350 in, less the $4520, or down to $7830 to return my investment. When I return in October, if I wish, I can sell a BWV contract for $85 a point - or $12,750. Minus commission of 12% leaves me with $11,220. So, once I take out the value I've gotten (at rental rates), I'm getting a 45% return over five years.

 

[crisi]

duplicate post

 

[kylie]

Anybody know how much the rack rate for, say, Beach club was in 1991.

I guess it is more than the couple of dollars increase in OKW

 

[rocketriter]

Her math fails if she calculates a 1-bedroom for a week against a deluxe suite for a week. Apples to apples...

 

[deerh]

I'm the OP, and maybe "bash" was the incorrect adjective, but "dising" or "dishing" DVC may be a better word.

As other posters have said, she kind of "skews the facts" on DVC to "her" advantage, but she says other valid points. BUT, WHAT % of DVC owners DO finance their timeshare? I would say a SIGNIFICANT %, so most of this board would disagree with her first statement.


But, mousesavers is a "saving" web page, so I can see some points!

DeerH

 

[jmminarik]

I don't see the quoted text as a slam, rather a rational warning for the average Disney vacationer. We're not average Disney vacationers. We tend to go more and appreciate the rooms and resorts more than the vast majority of people who visit the World.

-Joe

 

[Pig Pen]

I financed my 150 points. We looked at the size and quality of the DVC accomodations and compared them to what we would pay at "rack rate" at other Disney resorts. Then, after factoring future inflation, we felt DVC was worth the investment. We purchased at VB because we plan to retire in FL and thought a beach location would work best for us. If we ever get sick of WDW (not a real fear) we have another vacation option!

Dues (along with the hurricanes) are wildcards, but we decided to take that chance.

 

[DVCconvert]

I'm the OP, and maybe "bash" was the incorrect adjective

I agree -- I don't see any "bashing" there.

 

[lilkitty819]

She failed to mention that the cost of rooms keep going up each year too. I'll stick to paying my dues, there cheaper then paying for a room each night even if I stay at a value resort for a week.

 

[KJHawley]

Don't forget to deplete your principle each year for your Disney trip. You'll have $6000 in the bank the first year, but only $5350 + interest (or so) the second year (after you pay for your rental points).

You're right- I'd be using up the $300 in interest each year, plus $300 of the capital. The next year, I'd have less capital, so I'd earn less interest, and spend more capital, eventually using it all up.

I also think that she missed two other BIG points:

1) The extra income DVC owners can make renting out their points during the years when they can't/don't use their points. If I was a DVC owner I could go to Disney every other year, and use the cash I got from renting out my points to pay for airfare, park tickets, and food.

2) If it wasn't for DVC members, the rest of us wouldn't have anyone to rent points from! If it wasn't for the nice DVC members on this board, I'd be spending MORE money on a moderate resort instead of a cheaper studio at a Deluxe resort. I'd never be able to afford to stay in a deluxe resort on my own.

 

[pearlieq]

Why so upset? It don't see it as a bash, a "dis", or inaccurate. Not everyone has to have the same opinion on DVC. Just because one person doesn't recommend it, doesn't make it any less valuable to you.

 

[crisi]

You are also assuming you can always rent points for $10. Personally, I think we are nearing the end of $10 points. At $92 a point and $4+ dues, we are going to start seeing fewer people rent for $10.

Mary is right, but she misses it in the analysis. DVC is a great value under certain circumstances. It is not a great way to save money unless you will be a regular WDW goer for years. Its not a great way to save money if you are happy in values. Its less of a great value if you finance. Its a lot of cash to tie up in one place for most American families. The 150 point buy in minimum gives you, frankly, too many points (!) for "I want to replace my once a year one week trip at the CBR" and ends up encouraging longer and/or more frequent trips - which are budget busters.

 

[Dean]

Her math fails if she calculates a 1-bedroom for a week against a deluxe suite for a week. Apples to apples...

In many ways that's not an apples to apples comparison either. I think one should compare to what you'd get without DVC and possibly to the costs of an off site top quality timeshare. Then take into account what you hope to do without DVC (moderate, WL, AKL, etc). Comparing to the suites gives a very high and false value unless that's what you would pay for otherwise.

I don't see it as a slam and I've said essentially the same things many times.

• consider the lost income on investment and/or interest paid if you do finance - check
• Compare to what YOU would spend without DVC - check
• Account for the dues - check
• Buy to use at DVC only - check

The other item not pointed out in this overview on Mousesavers, is that of weekend points. From a dollars standpoints, DVC only makes sense to use the points at DVC resorts, go light on weekends and buy cash. If one wants to pay for the feeling, that's cool, just be honest and don't try to justify the cost by doing stupid comparisons like to DVC rack rates unless that's what you're going to pay if you don't buy. The ONLY exchange options that makes sense financially is that of a very small subset of II exchanges during peak times.

 

[jade1]

I was reading mousesavers.com about DVC and ran apon this:


I think this is a "SLAM" against DVC!!

DVC membership generally is not worth considering unless:


"You purchase BCV". They forgot that part.

 

[erikthewise]

Don't be so sure Mary "missed" anything. Her site is all about "How can I save money on my next trip", and she writes from that perspective. As such it's a very useful site.

She encourages people to take a hard look at the numbers, which is appropriate for her site. She doesn't pretend to give a complete financial analysis or to examine all aspects of DVC, such as long term planning or various intangible aspects of DVC membership. That's our job!

 

[TinkABoutIt]

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Our dues pay 100% of the operating costs of the resort, so they will be subject to inflationary increases over the life of the contract.

I know...I know.....I just said..."wouldn't it be nice"????
Now that would be an incentive!

 

[deerh]

By Perali:Why so upset? It don't see it as a bash, a "dis", or inaccurate. Not everyone has to have the same opinion on DVC. Just because one person doesn't recommend it, doesn't make it any less valuable to you.

Ummmh, I wasn't upset, just seems to me PARTS of her explanation was
"SKEWED" a bit. Also, I still think it is a "dis" of DVC, and if not a "dis",
a "one sided" look at DVC...

Again, JMHO.... and you MMV, and I was not upset, just seemed "SKEWED" in 1 direction.

DeerH

 

[ClarabelleCow]

"Ummmh, I wasn't upset, just seems to me PARTS of her explanation was
"SKEWED" a bit. Also, I still think it is a "dis" of DVC, and if not a "dis",
a "one sided" look at DVC...

Again, JMHO.... and you MMV, and I was not upset, just seemed "SKEWED" in 1 direction."


I didn't see this at all, just an honest look from a savings perspective. I personally could never justify borrowing money to purchase DVC, we waited until we had the cash to do it, and even with add-ons we waited. But I'm also the type that never ever carries a credit card balance, I charge everything, but at the end of the month, I pay it off, if I can't then I don't buy it.

While I love DVC, if I had to do it over again, I think I would probably do the rental route instead. I can't see trading outside of DVC, just not worth it when there are timeshare boards like www.TUG.net or whatever it is, and if we can't go down, it wouldn't be a big deal. I think alot of what was in the article was basic common sense. But for some they will finance up the you know what for what they want, while there are some that wait until they can afford what they want and not go in debt.

 

[sleepydog25]

Back when the truth about DVC was told this was exactly what was said and figured about DVC. But now with the DVC sales people actually selling this as a savings and people actually buying into the pitch, you don't see this kind of figuring much anymore. It was nice to see it again. This type of thing was on these boards years ago, that was before the great savings hoodwink.

Hmm, I sense a bit of hostility here. The only absolute is whether a person thinks DVC is right for her or his family. Statistics are like clay--you can mold them to support whichever claim you wish. The info from mousesavers.com in the original post overlooks important, non-quantifiable qualities of being a DVC owner: no middle-man through which to rent points; knowing you have accomodations handled with one phone call; forcing you to take a vacation (a positive not to be underestimated if you have a spouse who works tremendously hard!); the satisfaction for some in "owning" part of the magic. On the other hand, Mary is correct in pointing out that there are other ways to save on trips to WDW other than buying into DVC.

There is no way we ever looked at buying into DVC as a great financial investment--we bought it because we liked what it had to offer for OUR family. I find it ironic that there are those who think a DVC membership is throwing away money while they avidly support other ventures without blinking an eye. For example, a good friend of mine who looks dubiously upon my DVC purchase has no qualms paying $1000 a year (and that amount goes up each year) for the RIGHT to purchase season tickets for a major college football program nearby. The season tickets cost an additional $500+ per person (once again going up nearly every year). Plus, since this team goes to a bowl game every year, they pay additional monies to attend that away game: tickets, hotel rooms, and some times, airline seats. Before figuring the bowl game, my friend is already dropping over $2K a year. Of course, this cost is for near the end zone seats--to get first choice at season tickets, you have to ante up $5K or more. I say more power to her since it makes her and her DH happy.

The same goes for DVC owners--if it works for you and you enjoy the system, no amount of statistical gerrymandering will matter. As for our experience, we were not promised the moon nor were we hoodwinked. DVC is simply the right fit for our lifestyle.

 

[sarhenty]

Hmm, I sense a bit of hostility here. The only absolute is whether a person thinks DVC is right for her or his family. Statistics are like clay--you can mold them to support whichever claim you wish. The info from mousesavers.com in the original post overlooks important, non-quantifiable qualities of being a DVC owner: no middle-man through which to rent points; knowing you have accomodations handled with one phone call; forcing you to take a vacation (a positive not to be underestimated if you have a spouse who works tremendously hard!); the satisfaction for some in "owning" part of the magic. On the other hand, Mary is correct in pointing out that there are other ways to save on trips to WDW other than buying into DVC.

There is no way we ever looked at buying into DVC as a great financial investment--we bought it because we liked what it had to offer for OUR family. I find it ironic that there are those who think a DVC membership is throwing away money while they avidly support other ventures without blinking an eye. For example, a good friend of mine who looks dubiously upon my DVC purchase has no qualms paying $1000 a year (and that amount goes up each year) for the RIGHT to purchase season tickets for a major college football program nearby. The season tickets cost an additional $500+ per person (once again going up nearly every year). Plus, since this team goes to a bowl game every year, they pay additional monies to attend that away game: tickets, hotel rooms, and some times, airline seats. Before figuring the bowl game, my friend is already dropping over $2K a year. Of course, this cost is for near the end zone seats--to get first choice at season tickets, you have to ante up $5K or more. I say more power to her since it makes her and her DH happy.

The same goes for DVC owners--if it works for you and you enjoy the system, no amount of statistical gerrymandering will matter. As for our experience, we were not promised the moon nor were we hoodwinked. DVC is simply the right fit for our lifestyle.

I loved it what you said! Especially the last paragraph... It was sweet and beautiful and so true. It is exactly MY sentiment and of many here on the boards. I agree too that Mary wrote that more for people who are looking to save $$ on an OCCASIONAL Disney trip, not die-hard fans like us.