Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[KSDisneyDad]

As I see it, the terms are virtually interchangeable per the dictionary/thesaurus listings.

But, if someone is set on taking offense or finding fault, I'm sure the
precise meaning can be debated until the web shuts down.

Anyone can state something in any manner (s)he wants.
But, it doesn't mean that someone reading will comprehend the intended meaning,
or agree with the stance if offense is taken.

I see your point that if someone wants to keep belaboring a point, they will do so regardless of the word choice used by others. I apologize for bringing this up. It's just that I had never heard of the phrase 'common wisdom' but have heard the phrase 'conventional wisdom' used often. I thought it would help, but I believe you're right, it only adds fuel to the fire.

When it comes to common or conventional phrases such as these, it's similar to Ziva on NCIS. She often gets the exact words of the phrase confused, but it seems like the other team members always know what she means. While here on the DIS......

 

[Robo]

I see your point that if someone wants to keep belaboring a point, they will do so regardless of the word choice used by others. I apologize for bringing this up. It's just that I had never heard of the phrase 'common wisdom' but have heard the phrase 'conventional wisdom' used often.

How about "common knowledge?"

 

[brunette8706]

You quoted Wikipedia...

Part of their explanation is that with the extended hours they don't have enough TIME to perform all the "needed" maintenance, which may be above and beyond regular maintenance, and may not be restricted to the trainsets themselves.

*
So, what's wrong with Wiki?

You're telling me because of the extended hours they will not have enough time to "maintain" their transporation mode i.e. the monorail? This makes no sense. They have been maintaining their transportation for 40 years, now all the sudden your telling me that they need that EXTRA hour or so to maintain the vehicles? That's absurd.

Hey Flix!

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

There is a bus from Epcot to CR/TTC and one to Poly/GF.

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like it'll take longer now to get back to your resort if staying at Poly/GF (but if you're at CR, you might get back faster). Now the big question remains - what will happen when MK closes? I can't wait to find out.

 

[Cafeen]

*
So, what's wrong with Wiki?

You're telling me because of the extended hours they will not have enough time to "maintain" their transporation mode i.e. the monorail? This makes no sense. They have been maintaining their transportation for 40 years, now all the sudden your telling me that they need that EXTRA hour or so to maintain the vehicles? That's absurd.

Hey Flix!

Since the hours of operation have grown quite a bit in 40 years (even just in the past few), then it's entirely possible that they have decided that they need this downtime to perform the routine maintenance described in the article. It could have been pushed off for this long, simply because Disney was unwilling to do it sooner, and now it's posing potential safety hazards if it's not worked on (or, at least, costing them more to fix then potential lost revenue).

To outright say that additional required maintenance is a lie, without knowing any of the facts and figures regarding the current state of the trains and beams on the system, is pretty ignorant.

Do you know the time it takes to service 1 train for the next day? Do you know the current state of each of the beams? Do you know the continued effects of added stress by rolling trains on the beams for the additional hours? I don't either, which is why I cannot claim that maintenance is a lie.

Now, don't get me wrong, I suspect that cost-cutting is part of it, but I certainly suspect that additional maintenance is required as well. This is evidenced by an increasing breakdown rate over the past few years as well as other incidents mentioned earlier in this thread (pieces falling off the beams namely). While these incidents likely have happened throughout the history of the monorail, there is empirical evidence that the rate is increasing in recent time due to either overuse or undermaintenance.

Of course, I also don't believe that it's the entire reason, though I certainly accept that it plays a part.

 

[doconeill]

*
So, what's wrong with Wiki?

You're telling me because of the extended hours they will not have enough time to "maintain" their transporation mode i.e. the monorail? This makes no sense. They have been maintaining their transportation for 40 years, now all the sudden your telling me that they need that EXTRA hour or so to maintain the vehicles? That's absurd.

Hey Flix!

Wikipedia is documentation written by committee.

These trains are 20 years old. They are probably due for a manufacturer's recommended "rebuild", which is a bit more than routine maintenance.

As things get older, they require more maintenance. And they've had less time per night to do it as the park hours got longer, and longer...which is what Disney said in the Sentinel article IIRC.

You can still take your 10 year old car in to the shop for "routine maintenance" every 3000 miles, but I bet you are getting more and more replaced on it as each year goes by...

 

[mom2rtk]

Wikipedia is documentation written by committee.

These trains are 20 years old. They are probably due for a manufacturer's recommended "rebuild", which is a bit more than routine maintenance.

As things get older, they require more maintenance. And they've had less time per night to do it as the park hours got longer, and longer...which is what Disney said in the Sentinel article IIRC.

You can still take your 10 year old car in to the shop for "routine maintenance" every 3000 miles, but I bet you are getting more and more replaced on it as each year goes by...

My understanding is that they replaced the original monorails after around 20 years. So if these are 20 years old........ I go back to the statement I made many many pages ago....... what are they doing embarking on a major capital expenditure in the parks if they have a monorail that is so old it has to go offline to "rest" when guests still need it?

Sure the Fantasyland expansion is exciting and I'm enjoying seeing the park get a major new component, especially in the heart of what we enjoy most...... Fantasyland. But it strikes me like a homeowner putting in a swimming pool when they know they need foundation work. Or eating dessert before dinner.

 

[brunette8706]

Since the hours of operation have grown quite a bit in 40 years (even just in the past few), then it's entirely possible that they have decided that they need this downtime to perform the routine maintenance described in the article. It could have been pushed off for this long, simply because Disney was unwilling to do it sooner, and now it's posing potential safety hazards if it's not worked on (or, at least, costing them more to fix then potential lost revenue).

To outright say that additional required maintenance is a lie, without knowing any of the facts and figures regarding the current state of the trains and beams on the system, is pretty ignorant.

Do you know the time it takes to service 1 train for the next day? Do you know the current state of each of the beams? Do you know the continued effects of added stress by rolling trains on the beams for the additional hours? I don't either, which is why I cannot claim that maintenance is a lie.

Now, don't get me wrong, I suspect that cost-cutting is part of it, but I certainly suspect that additional maintenance is required as well. This is evidenced by an increasing breakdown rate over the past few years as well as other incidents mentioned earlier in this thread (pieces falling off the beams namely). While these incidents likely have happened throughout the history of the monorail, there is empirical evidence that the rate is increasing in recent time due to either overuse or undermaintenance.

Of course, I also don't believe that it's the entire reason, though I certainly accept that it plays a part.

*
I can certainly refute your above inflammatory post. I will preface by saying I don't really appreciate your name calling (ignorant etc.)

Further, I did not use the word "lie" so please don't put words on the screen that I did not use. I used the word "absurd", meaning illogical. Yes, it is illogical in my opinion that the trains are being cut back because of maintenance. Of course the Disney spokesperson stated this. But again, in my opinion I'm not buying it.

Second, I'm connecting the dots here. Let me explain, everything Disney has been going through the roof price wise, and there has been some major cutbacks, while at the same time some of the quality has been going down in my opinion. See my ongoing list of "cutbacks" and "price-increases".

Disney Refillable mugs - Will now have a sensor for all your beverages, gee, I wonder how much that is gonig to cost?

Strollers - $18.00 2008, now $36.00

Ticket prices have increased

Restaurants ie. buffets $26.99 2007 now $36.99 NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAY SURCHARGES of an additional $4.00 which makes your meal close to $40.00!

Resorts Value season has been shortened throughout the year.

Resorts stays for the weekend is now higher, never used to be.

Disney Dining Plan will increase.

Disney food items have been taken off menus/buffet i.e. Prime Rib etc.

Parades have been shorten.

Mickey's Halloween Party - Decorations have been reduced.

Mickey's Halloween Party - Candy for kids have been reduced.

EPCOT fireworks display, is not even close to what it used to be.

Christmas Decorations - have been cutback. EPCOT winter of lights was gorgeous but they do not have this anymore.

Lastly, my logical thinking is that the monorail cutbacks are just that, CUTBACKS. I don't buy the "maintenance" game. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, acts like a duck...well.........? I'm guessing, in my opinion, based on previous patterns as stated above, that it is indeed a cutback.

Thanks!
Brunette

 

[brunette8706]

My understanding is that they replaced the original monorails after around 20 years. So if these are 20 years old........ I go back to the statement I made many many pages ago....... what are they doing embarking on a major capital expenditure in the parks if they have a monorail that is so old it has to go offline to "rest" when guests still need it?

Sure the Fantasyland expansion is exciting and I'm enjoying seeing the park get a major new component, especially in the heart of what we enjoy most...... Fantasyland. But it strikes me like a homeowner putting in a swimming pool when they know they need foundation work. Or eating dessert before dinner.

*
Great analogy(s).

 

[doconeill]

My understanding is that they replaced the original monorails after around 20 years. So if these are 20 years old........ I go back to the statement I made many many pages ago....... what are they doing embarking on a major capital expenditure in the parks if they have a monorail that is so old it has to go offline to "rest" when guests still need it?

Yes, the original set only lasted 20 years. That doesn't necessarily mean that this set was designed to only last as long.

I know the trainsets are fairly unique, but most train designs are designed to go through a mid-life overhaul to extend their useful life.

Also, evidence suggests that they are no current plans to replace the trainsets in the short term. They created Teal out of the opposite ends of Pink and Purple, and there is still talk of a 12th being built to make up for the shortage - not a whole new fleet.

I personally believe there is something to the need for increase maintenance (and again, it is NOT necessarily limited to the trainsets), but it could ALSO be a way of saving money short term (if the savings outweigh the need for increases in boat/ferry and bus service).

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes, the original set only lasted 20 years. That doesn't necessarily mean that this set was designed to only last as long.

I know the trainsets are fairly unique, but most train designs are designed to go through a mid-life overhaul to extend their useful life.

Also, evidence suggests that they are no current plans to replace the trainsets in the short term. They created Teal out of the opposite ends of Pink and Purple, and there is still talk of a 12th being built to make up for the shortage - not a whole new fleet.

I personally believe there is something to the need for increase maintenance (and again, it is NOT necessarily limited to the trainsets), but it could ALSO be a way of saving money short term (if the savings outweigh the need for increases in boat/ferry and bus service).

Well, I still think there was something wrong in that plan if it now requires shelving the monorail at a time when paying customers need its service.

 

[Cafeen]

*
I can certainly refute your above inflammatory post. I will preface by saying I don't really appreciate your name calling (ignorant etc.)

Further, I did not use the word "lie" so please don't put words on the screen that I did not use. I used the word "absurd", meaning illogical. Yes, it is illogical in my opinion that the trains are being cut back because of maintenance. Of course the Disney spokesperson stated this. But again, in my opinion I'm not buying it.

Second, I'm connecting the dots here. Let me explain, everything Disney has been going through the roof price wise, and there has been some major cutbacks, while at the same time some of the quality has been going down in my opinion. See my ongoing list of "cutbacks".

You didn't use the word lie. That is true. You simply said that you don't believe what they're telling you. That what they're claiming can't be the truth (if it could be, it wouldn't be absurd). I get it, it's not a lie, it's just the opposite of the truth .

I also never claimed cutbacks weren't part of it. Find where I said that? You know, that putting words into mouths goes both ways .

Disney Refillable mugs - Will now have a sensor for all your beverages, gee, I wonder how much that is gonig to cost?

Strollers - $18.00 2008, now $36.00

Ticket prices have increased

Restaurants ie. buffets $26.99 2007 now $36.99 NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAY SURCHARGES of an additional $4.00 which makes your meal close to $40.00!

Resorts Value season has been shortened throughout the year.

Resorts stays for the weekend is now higher, never used to be.

Disney Dining Plan will increase.

Disney food items have been taken off menus/buffet i.e. Prime Rib etc.

Parades have been shorten.

Mickey's Halloween Party - Decorations have been reduced.

Mickey's Halloween Party - Candy for kids have been reduced.

EPCOT fireworks display, is not even close to what it used to be.

Christmas Decorations - have been cutback. EPCOT winter of lights was gorgeous but they do not have this anymore.

I could go through this list one by one, but I'm not going to bother for the sake of other readers...

The fact is, I agree that cutbacks have happened. I get that. Some of the above aren't really cutbacks though... I mean, mugs? really? For starters, the program is still in testing, and is not even live yet. But, let's assume that it goes live (which I hope it does). Are you worried that they're cutting back on the amount of pure abuse that happened? The mug prices won't likely be that affected, as they are now cutting out the abuse by adding a 3cent piece of wire to it.

The other items, while certainly supporting the potential that it is a "cutback" do not exclude the potential for additional maintenance that may be needed.

Lastly, my logical thinking is that the monorail cutbacks are just that, CUTBACKS. I don't buy the "maintenance" game. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, acts like a duck...well.........? I'm guessing, in my opinion, based on previous patterns, that it is indeed a cutback.

Thanks!
Brunette

See, where we differ is the fact that I can consider that the trains and beams need more maintenance than they are receiving right now and you cannot. I don't discount the cutback factor, I just don't see it as the only reason. I don't discount that things have been slipping a bit, but I don't see this as the only reason for shortening the hours. Maybe I'm too optimistic and such, but given the recent history of the rails (increased downtime and anecdotal stories of more events of parts coming loose) along with the fact that there hasn't been a strong overhaul of the beams in 40 years (well, except Epcot, that's only got about 29 years of wear and tear going on it) and adding the fact that the hours keep getting longer and longer (which gives less time for routine maintenance), I can certainly see how it could be part of it. While you keep the "DOWN WITH DISNEY" mantra of "CUTBACKS ARE THE ONLY REASON! IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY GRABBING!"

Before you claim more words onto the screen. Every example you listed above, you listed as either a cutback or a pure plus profit motive. Nothing about potentially rising costs, maintenance, or other things. It's all about making more money at our expense.

 

[brunette8706]

You didn't use the word lie. That is true. You simply said that you don't believe what they're telling you. That what they're claiming can't be the truth (if it could be, it wouldn't be absurd). I get it, it's not a lie, it's just the opposite of the truth .

I also never claimed cutbacks weren't part of it. Find where I said that? You know, that putting words into mouths goes both ways .


I could go through this list one by one, but I'm not going to bother for the sake of other readers...

The fact is, I agree that cutbacks have happened. I get that. Some of the above aren't really cutbacks though... I mean, mugs? really? For starters, the program is still in testing, and is not even live yet. But, let's assume that it goes live (which I hope it does). Are you worried that they're cutting back on the amount of pure abuse that happened? The mug prices won't likely be that affected, as they are now cutting out the abuse by adding a 3cent piece of wire to it.

The other items, while certainly supporting the potential that it is a "cutback" do not exclude the potential for additional maintenance that may be needed.


See, where we differ is the fact that I can consider that the trains and beams need more maintenance than they are receiving right now and you cannot.

*
You can say that all you want but you have no more information than I, so therefore it's your opinioin, NOT A FACT.

So what you are saying, the extra 4 hours a week is going to make the diffierence between a functioning and non functioning monorail system? If the system is in that dire of straits, maybe they need to just shut it down. Wouldn 't you think?

I think it would be ignorant of anyone to assume that a massive for profit corporation, which relies heavily on PR is always forth coming, truthful and accurate with the information they provide. Cool-aid anyone?

I don't discount the cutback factor, I just don't see it as the only reason. I don't discount that things have been slipping a bit, but I don't see this as the only reason for shortening the hours. Maybe I'm too optimistic and such, but given the recent history of the rails (increased downtime and anecdotal stories of more events of parts coming loose) along with the fact that there hasn't been a strong overhaul of the beams in 40 years (well, except Epcot, that's only got about 29 years of wear and tear going on it) and adding the fact that the hours keep getting longer and longer (which gives less time for routine maintenance), I can certainly see how it could be part of it. While you keep the "DOWN WITH DISNEY" mantra of "CUTBACKS ARE THE ONLY REASON! IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY GRABBING!"

*
Well it is! LOL! We are a paying customer who expect a return on the large sums of money we spend frequently. As Disney is a business, to conduct good business the priority should be "keeping the customers happy, while making a profit". It seems to me, there is a growing number of unhappy customers. It's not being "doom and gloom" it's simply telling it like it is. YOu can deal with it or choose to ignore it, it's ultimately your choice.

claim more words onto the screen. Every example you listed above, you listed as either a cutback or a pure plus profit motive. Nothing about potentially rising costs, maintenance, or other things. It's all about making more money at our expense.

Brunette

 

[Sammie]

I alway wonder why people who distrust and dislike Disney and their decisions so much, continue to go. I would so not be giving them any more money if I felt that way.

 

[brunette8706]

I alway wonder why people who distrust and dislike Disney and their decisions so much, continue to go. I would so not be giving them any more money if I felt that way.

*
When you find someone that feels that way let us know how it works out.

 

[Cafeen]

Man, I hate when people reply inside a quote and then I have to pull out the whole quote and do that whole double quote thing... such a PITA.

You can say that all you want but you have no more information than I, so therefore it's your opinioin, NOT A FACT.

So what you are saying, the extra 4 hours a week is going to make the diffierence between a functioning and non functioning monorail system? If the system is in that dire of straits, maybe they need to just shut it down. Wouldn 't you think?

I think it would be ignorant of anyone to assume that a massive for profit corporation, which relies heavily on PR is always forth coming, truthful and accurate with the information they provide. Cool-aid anyone?

No, see, the monorails have been breaking down more often lately. It's an observation held by most on this board (even the "ZOMG DISNEY SUCKS NOW!" crew). The pieces falling off were, in fact, seen by people. The monorail was down on July 3 for an extended amount of time for one reason or another. All of this happens more than it did years ago. That's not opinion. What is opinion is that it suggests that the maintenance has either been lacking, or needs to be increased for the age of the beams and trains. (However, it's a rather logical conclusion to make).

Yes, I'm saying that 4 extra hours per week, especially the 2 extra hours each of the 2 nights, could preserve and fix issues they normally couldn't. They're not going to tear it down and rebuild in that time, but they could fix bigger issues with those extra two hours they normally wouldn't be able to.

Let's say they have a 6 hour turnaround overnight. If they have a project that's going to take them at least 6 hours, they wouldn't be able to do it that night. If they now have 2 nights that give them 8 hours, they'd be able to get that project completed and move on to other spots. It's not about what they can get done from 10pm to midnight, but from 10pm to 6am. (Times are used to illustrate that 2 hours can make a difference and are not to be taken as exact times they do anything). It also saves 2 hours of wear and tear on the engines and beams. 2 hours * ~6 trains is 12 train hours per night, or 24 per week. Stretch this out and you'll save your trains for much longer. At least, that's the theory.

Again, you're calling them liars. So, you don't believe anything they say then? After all, if just by me saying there's a grain of truth in the maintenance issue makes me a "cool (sic) aid" drinker, that must mean that by you refusing to believe any of it makes you not believe a single thing they say? Is that true?

If it is, that's fine, it's your thing. I tend to look at things a bit more open-mindedly though.

Well it is! LOL! We are a paying customer who expect a return on the large sums of money we spend frequently. As Disney is a business, to conduct good business the priority should be "keeping the customers happy, while making a profit". It seems to me, there is a growing number of unhappy customers. It's not being "doom and gloom" it's simply telling it like it is. YOu can deal with it or choose to ignore it, it's ultimately your choice.

You're not telling it like it is. You're exaggerating and using hyperbole. Do you have the numbers to show that their unhappy base is growing? Truly growing? Or are you going by a few message boards representing < 1% of the yearly visitors where people are more prone to post negatives than positives? Or are you simply transferring your own personal opinion onto everyone else who may have a small complaint and translating that into yet another totally unhappy customer?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I alway wonder why people who distrust and dislike Disney and their decisions so much, continue to go. I would so not be giving them any more money if I felt that way.

It's called love-hate. It's not exclusive to Disney - it also applies to marriages, family relationships, and even our relationship with the government. There are things we like and things we dislike about how Disney operates, but it would be almost impossible to live without it.

Disney is a huge part of people's lives. TV, movies, music, merchandise, theme parks, almost everybody interacts daily with Disney. And Disney evokes a huge sense of nostalgia. People look back fondly at Walt Disney, and his small town values, innovative spirit, and creativity. The theme parks have captured that, too, and people around the world (especially in America) plan yearly trips to WDW because it's such a great place for families. The people taking the time to post here must care a lot about Disney. They have fond memories of it, and they still have a fun time whenever they go to the parks. That said, it doesn't mean we have to be happy with every single change and cut that makes our experience less special. When you look at the rapidly rising prices, combined with more and more cutbacks, it's a huge slap in the face to people who've been visiting frequently and for a long time.

So I'm going to continue to spend time at WDW. But now, we've changed our next booking from GF to WL, and we also plan on staying at Epcot resorts like Swan and Beach Club. Until Disney finds a way to mess up what those resorts offer, I still want my Disney fix.

 

[flicx]

I alway wonder why people who distrust and dislike Disney and their decisions so much, continue to go. I would so not be giving them any more money if I felt that way.

I really don't see this as the case here.Its more like people with a passion for disney not wanting it to go into the crapper!

 

[TLSnell1981]

Parsing meanings of words to argue a point can prove to be fruitless with the inexact English language.

I do agree, which is often proven of this board.

But, if someone is set on taking offense or finding fault, I'm sure the
precise meaning can be debated until the web shuts down.

Anyone can state something in any manner (s)he wants.
But, it doesn't mean that someone reading will comprehend the intended meaning,
or agree with the stance if offense is taken.

Again, I agree. I also believe, the intended meaning, definitely depends on the poster, and their history.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

No, see, the monorails have been breaking down more often lately. It's an observation held by most on this board (even the "ZOMG DISNEY SUCKS NOW!" crew). The pieces falling off were, in fact, seen by people. The monorail was down on July 3 for an extended amount of time for one reason or another. All of this happens more than it did years ago. That's not opinion. What is opinion is that it suggests that the maintenance has either been lacking, or needs to be increased for the age of the beams and trains. (However, it's a rather logical conclusion to make).

In December 2009 when I was staying at the Contemporary there were two seperate nights when the Resort Monorail went down for various reasons.

The first time it happened I we were at the Transportation & Ticket Center, however it had been at least 5 minutes or more that we were sitting there. Well eventually an announcemnet comes on telling everyone to get off, then it took the Monorail Cast Members at least 30 minutes to say that the Monorail we were on needed be towed to the Monorail service station. The weird thing is when I got on at the Contemporary I thought to myself something smelled like it was burning, so I am guessing that had something to do with the problem.

The second time happened a few days later. I was at the Polynesian and as I walked towards the Resort Monorail station we were told the Resort line was down. Well I said how can I get back to the Contemporary? The Cast Member said walk to the TTC, take the Express Monorail to the Magic Kingdom and walk back. Instead I explained what happened to a Cast Member working the front desk who was going to give me a Taxi voucher. Well it turned out they ran out of them, so he suggested paying for the Taxi and explaning the situation to a Cast Member at the Contemporary lobby. Anyway long story short the Taxi ride from the Polynesian to the Contemporary was around $7.00 and the Cast Member at the Contemporary took $10.00 off our bill, so that was good enough.