Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[Robo]

It doesn't make sense that they'd provide three modes of transportation to th MK-area resorts. I wouldn't count on the DVC Board rumor until/unless it's confirmed in writing by WDW management, the Orlando Sentinel, WDWinfo.com, or Mousesavers. I still expect both loops to close an hour after the MK does, and that guests will need to walk, boat, ferry, or bus after that.

And, I contend that it wouldn't make any sense to continue to operate the Epcot Monorail until 10PM+ if there was no Resort Monorail operating after 8PM-ish.

Why not just shut them all down at 8PM and start bus service then?
(And, for all I know they very well might.)

There is a bus from Epcot to CR/TTC and one to Poly/GF.

If that's the case, while we're on this aspect...
Why wouldn't they route a bus that was serving TTC/Poly (since they are very compatible/near each other.)
And, make the other bus CR/GF (or CR/TTC/GF) since GF and (especially) CR would virtually REQUIRE a bus link to TTC
after 10PM (or 11PM?)


.

 

[TLSnell1981]

_

Actually, no. Consensus on the Transportation Board, any time somebody asks 'drive or bus'. Not everybody takes the advice, but no matter which the responder prefers, pretty much everyone advises 'bus' to the Magic Kingdom.
.

So, this is gospel...not opinion? All experiences and needs are equal...no "ifs" "ands"or "buts"? Well, darn...why have a discussion? Dump, the other forms of transportation...buses are the best for everyone. Of course, other than the fact, some disagree with that opinion

 

[kaytieeldr]

So, this is gospel...not opinion? All experiences and needs are equal...no "ifs" "ands"or "buts"? Well, darn...why have a discussion? Dump, the other forms of transportation...buses are the best for everyone. Of course, other than the fact, some disagree with that opinion

I'm not sure I understand your need to be derisive in your responses, but...
common wisdom as in many people agree; and consensus as in general or widespread agreement. Nobody's saying dump any other form of transportation (and again, I'd appreciate not having words put in my mouth); just that the bus is better than driving from most resorts to/from the MK.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

So, this is gospel...not opinion? All experiences and needs are equal...no "ifs" "ands"or "buts"? Well, darn...why have a discussion? Dump, the other forms of transportation...buses are the best for everyone. Of course, other than the fact, some disagree with that opinion

Sorry, I'm really confused by this post. I believe that kaytieeldr was simply trying to say many pages ago that on the these boards, that even if you have a car and are staying on-site (but not at a MK resort), it seems that most people will still suggest taking the bus to MK as it's faster than a car.
Kaytieeldr used the phrase "common wisdom" and you chided her for her choice of words. She probably should have used "conventional wisdom" instead as I believe that was her intent. She never said unanimous consent either. Kaytieeld was saying that everyone is different and there is no one-size-fits-all answer, thus to assume that all on-site guests not staying at a MK resort will just take a bus was an incorrect assumption.

I don't believe she was saying that buses are better all the time, but simply that when it comes to the MK and you're staying at a resort other than a monorail resort, the buses are generally believed by most to be faster. Even if that's the case (and it is documented in other sources such as the Unofficial Guide), doesn't mean everyone likes the buses so they drive to the MK instead.

Can you kindly explain your point so I can understand it? This is truly a sincere question.

 

[sandym718]

The EMH I was referring to were the late ones, midnight to 3am. Our experience is that these EMH stay very busy until almost closing. Others may tell you differently but we have never been lucky enough to experience a low volume crowd since WDW switched from E-ticket late nights to EMH. My experiences are in July which is a busy season. We always expect that the crowds should be smaller for such late hours but no one seems to want to go home. I'm talking about a 45 min to 1 hour wait for Space Mtn at 2 am.

Wow!! That's crazy! And definitely different from a lot of other reports I've read.

As I said a bit earlier, a WDW monorail train can hold between 240 and 360 people. It's designed to hold the higher number - but people riding it perceive the planned number of standees (18) to make the car section too crowded. Its not, per the manufacturer.

People seem to be forgetting that WDW never promised the Resorts monorail would be exclusively for guests at the linked resorts. For that matter, they never promised you a train that wouldnt be at capacity. Why does it matter where a passenger is going, or staying? Would any of you complaining about (perceived) overcrowding if you knew all 360 passengers were going to monorail resorts? How would you react if some people exited at the TTC because it was closer to their Poly rooms?

I'm one that might exit at the TTC to get to my Poly room, love that walk. I never said or thought that WDW promised exclusivity for the Resort monorail. (Although apparantly at one time, it was that way, just from reading these posts. I never knew that). Your comments regarding overcrowding -- Everyone has a different perception of what "crowded" is. To me, 18 people standing and a packed car does not mean it's overcrowded - as you seem to state I think. To me, overcrowded means it's not possible to get on 1 or more trains as I wait. That's too "crowded" to me. That's what I'd like to avoid. It remains to be seen whether that will even be an issue or not. But if it is, some of us just think it would be nice if Disney would make an attempt to limit the Resort monorail access to those going to the resorts, just for that short time. For me, I don't think a strict, showing ID thing, is the way to do it. People could want to go to the resorts for any number of reasons. Personally, I think just an ATTEMPT by Disney would be sufficient in this case (should it occur) - something like a sign or CM's announcing "Monorail Resort guests/visitors this way (monorails or launches), Other resorts this way (buses), TTC/parking lot this way (ferry and possibly buses??)". (I'm probably missing something there!) Would it work 100%, no, of course not, but I think even the attempt would be appreciated - again, only if the situation warrants it.

 

[sandym718]

I'd appreciate not having words put in my mouth

And please remember not to do the same!

 

[Cafeen]

Phew, I go to bed early and look what happens...

What I was thinking of are non-peak times, with early MK closings. Say 7 PM. EEMH until 10 PM. I would think that the crowds COULD be quite large during the 8-11 time frame, as that's not really that late, even for families with kids! When it ends at 10, I could see a lot of crowding occurring.

The biggest issue of concern is not the super busy holiday times when the parks are open (regular) to midnight or later, but rather the late summer/fall season where parks close early for parties and other events with the fear that the express will close at this early closing time.

That's pretty much what got the ball rolling. For the super late EMHs, even during much busier times, this won't be nearly as much of an issue.

Wow. That is so disappointing that Disney would do that. And sending vendors into the back alley with these poor guests seems even more crass. And is it even legal? Aren't there set capacities with their operating licences?

That pathway (if it's the one I'm assuming it is), is often used as a Main St. Bypass. While typically (again, from reading, I go when it's not insane...) they use this as an alternate entrance/exit, it's plausible that people would set up camp there as well and the vendors were more of a guest "request" than a "hey, these people are here, let's make money off of them!"

MK Capacity (and all parks) includes every inch of public accessible walkways in the park. For the fireworks, chances are people crunched into a much smaller area than that (e.g. MS and the hub) to watch them. I'd bet that you could go off the beaten patch (deep Frontierland and the like) and it would seem *relatively* empty (by relatively, I mean empty for July 4, not empty for Sept 23 when I'm there ).

The closing capacity is likely well under the actual theoretical max capacity for the park.

---

As far as part of the other side. Disney has gone *on the record* to state that *all* Disney transportation is for the enjoyment and convenience of *all* Walt Disney World Resort guests, whether they are staying on site or off. Again, like certain other things, during times of extreme crowding, they can limit some forms so long as they're still providing some form of transportation for valid use (yes, going to the resorts from the parks is valid, off-site guest, use of the transportation. They want to get the guests in these resorts, using the restaurants and non-pool amenities in order to entice them to book onsite the next time).

 

[maiapapaya]

It doesn't make sense that they'd provide three modes of transportation to th MK-area resorts. I wouldn't count on the DVC Board rumor until/unless it's confirmed in writing by WDW management, the Orlando Sentinel, WDWinfo.com, or Mousesavers. I still expect both loops to close an hour after the MK does, and that guests will need to walk, boat, ferry, or bus after that.

I don't think you will ever see Disney expecting these guests to walk, especially when these resorts are marketed on the ease of transportation (ie monorail service). And there are those guests who simply couldn't do that walk or for whom it would be very difficult (our kids are out of strollers, but still young enough that at the end of the day the walk from TTC to Poly would be very difficult) and what about GF guests.

WRT boats, there are only so many. There is absolutely no way that the current fleet could ever transport all of the guests that would have otherwise taken the monorail.

That leaves busing. While all other resorts currently have direct buses from MK, these resorts do not. No one seemed to know how this would work for these resorts - would Disney add a bus to cover the loop (which would also transport dining guests)? Would they add direct service buses (but this doesn't address dining guests)? Would these guests have to get themselves to the TTC (by ferry, or the buses that WDW will undoubtedly have to run to replace the express monorail to TTC) and then ? buses from there to the resorts? There didn't seem to be a clear answer.

Again, transportation for guests that were sold their rooms based in large part on "ease of transportation" suddenly don't have that ease of transportation. If the monorails don't run, it doesn't have a huge impact on people from other resorts who already take the bus. It really only affects those trying to get to the TTC or the monorail resorts. Buses can pick up the extra capacity to the TTC, but there is still the question of how to get the monorail resort guests "home". What is normally very easy potentially becomes a bit of a convoluted route.

It is possible that TPTB thought the easiest soloution was just to keep the resort loop running to service these resorts (for dining and accommodation). Of course that leads us back to the scenario of everyone then trying to use this monorail and the ensuing argument (regardless of Disney's intent - under this particular circumstance, who should or shouldn't use it etc)

Really during the times when this presents the biggest problem - I think during party season when MK closes at 7:00 several nights a week - I don't understand why WDW doesn't just keep both loops running. I know this was briefly mentioned and I hope THAT is the particular rumor that turns out to be true. If the lines ran until say 1:00 (I don't know how late they normally run after parties) and if they started again around 7:00 (obviously other than on the MK EMH morning) it still gives them 6 hours of down time, which is roughly equivalent to what they are gaining by shutting the monorails down early during the seasons with later park hours.

 

[brunette8706]

Thanks. And I sincerely meant my apology. I am generally not afraid to post my opinion and although I may disagree with someone on this topic, that doesn't mean that I won't agree with the same poster on other threads in the future. Unfortunately, I admit that I stepped over my own self-imposed line in attempting to express my viewpoint this time. After all, it is a Disney vacation board and the purpose for me is to plan my next vacation, stay informed on what's going on at WDW and DCL and to have fun discussing various WDW/DCL planning topics in order to escape from the pressures of work.

*
Yeah, I know you did. You seem straight-forward and honest. We all get in a tangent on these boards. I know I was getting too cranky last night, I should have just logged off at 9 p.m. rather than 1:30 a.m. Heck I had to get to early meeting today! LOL!

 

[snykymom]

What transportation options does WDW make available for those dining at restaurants like the Flying Fish or Boma? Buses?

Just to respond to a question that hasn't been answered - there are few options if you dine at a resort restaurant not on the monorail. You take a bus to an open park (assuming there is one) and then a bus back to your resort; you take a bus to DTD and then a bus or boat back to your resort; or you take a cab. And if you dine at a monorail resort but you're not staying at one, those are your options as well - the monorail doesn't really help you unless you're going to or from MK or Epcot.

 

[brunette8706]

This info has been often discussed over the years.

The statement about on-site transportation is not put there with the intent by Disney to be exclusionary of non-resort guests.

It is there to mention that Disney does provide various forms of transportation, since many new guests are not aware of the service.

*
Thanks Robo!

 

[brunette8706]

Okay per this website, monorail trains are already being maintained for regular maintenance, so the closing of the monorail runs at 11 pm due to maintenance procedures are null and void. I guess Disney is trying to save money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System


Maintenance
Monorail Shop (roundhouse)Monorail Shop ("Shop" for short) is Disney's monorail maintenance facility located a short distance northeast of the Magic Kingdom, and provides space for up to nine of the eleven Mark VI trains on its upper level (the bottom level houses the four steam locomotives that circle the Magic Kingdom on its west side, and a bus repair facility on the east side). On any given night, two monorail trains [7] (and often more) are parked at various stations on the system, depending on which beam Shop has determined they are to be run the next day. On nights where the temperature drops below freezing, the trains will be parked inside the Contemporary Resort; but in practice, trains can be left in any station (even on the express side of a resort station). No train will ever be left outside two nights in a row because routine maintenance is performed nightly.

The Monorail Shop also has a painting room located on Beam 10 that is elevated 25 feet (7.6 m) off the ground and has a lift mounted on the wall for the painters. It takes three weeks to paint a monorail train.[7] To access the wheels and underside of the monorail, a portion of Beam 1 inside Shop is removable, primarily used to change load tires.

 

[Cafeen]

Okay per this website, monorail trains are already being maintained for regular maintenance, so the closing of the monorail runs at 11 pm due to maintenance procedures are null and void. I guess Disney is trying to save money....

There's still question regarding saving wear and tear, increased amount of maintenance needed on the older trains, increased maintenance needed on the beams themselves, and possible deeper (think infrastructure) issues with both the beams and trains. They *could* have decided that the length of time they currently had no longer was enough to get this done, and they *could* have decided that they needed to devote more time to the pieces of the system than the current schedule allowed for.

Not to say they certainly are, and my belief is my typical "It's likely both" approach that makes sense to me, but just because they were receiving some maintenance before does not preclude the potential requirement for increased maintenance now.

 

[TLSnell1981]

It doesn't make sense that they'd provide three modes of transportation to th MK-area resorts. I wouldn't count on the DVC Board rumor until/unless it's confirmed in writing by WDW management, the Orlando Sentinel, WDWinfo.com, or Mousesavers. I still expect both loops to close an hour after the MK does, and that guests will need to walk, boat, ferry, or bus after that.

I'm not counting on ANYTHING from Disney... especially a board rumor or verbal responses from their CMs.

I'm not sure I understand your need to be derisive in your responses, but...
common wisdom as in many people agree; and consensus as in general or widespread agreement. Nobody's saying dump any other form of transportation (and again, I'd appreciate not having words put in my mouth); just that the bus is better than driving from most resorts to/from the MK.

Not sure ..which words, I put in your mouth? Although, my opinion is..different. And, I'd bet, I'm not alone.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Kaytieeldr used the phrase "common wisdom" and you chided her for her choice of words. She probably should have used "conventional wisdom" instead as I believe that was her intent.

Yes, I should have been using conventional wisdom, and I thank you kindly for the correction.

 

[doconeill]

Okay per this website, monorail trains are already being maintained for regular maintenance, so the closing of the monorail runs at 11 pm due to maintenance procedures are null and void. I guess Disney is trying to save money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System


Maintenance
Monorail Shop (roundhouse)Monorail Shop ("Shop" for short) is Disney's monorail maintenance facility located a short distance northeast of the Magic Kingdom, and provides space for up to nine of the eleven Mark VI trains on its upper level (the bottom level houses the four steam locomotives that circle the Magic Kingdom on its west side, and a bus repair facility on the east side). On any given night, two monorail trains [7] (and often more) are parked at various stations on the system, depending on which beam Shop has determined they are to be run the next day. On nights where the temperature drops below freezing, the trains will be parked inside the Contemporary Resort; but in practice, trains can be left in any station (even on the express side of a resort station). No train will ever be left outside two nights in a row because routine maintenance is performed nightly.

The Monorail Shop also has a painting room located on Beam 10 that is elevated 25 feet (7.6 m) off the ground and has a lift mounted on the wall for the painters. It takes three weeks to paint a monorail train.[7] To access the wheels and underside of the monorail, a portion of Beam 1 inside Shop is removable, primarily used to change load tires.

You quoted Wikipedia...

Part of their explanation is that with the extended hours they don't have enough TIME to perform all the "needed" maintenance, which may be above and beyond regular maintenance, and may not be restricted to the trainsets themselves.

 

[Robo]

Yes, I should have been using conventional wisdom, and I thank you kindly for the correction.

Parsing meanings of words to argue a point can prove to be fruitless with the inexact English language.

For instance:

Here's what thesaurus.com says for the word "common."

(Bolding mine.)

Main Entry: common

Part of Speech: adjective

Definition: average, ordinary

Synonyms: accepted, banal, bourgeois, casual, characteristic, colloquial, comformable, commonplace,
conventional,
current, customary, daily, everyday, familiar, frequent, general, habitual, hackneyed, homely, humdrum, informal, mediocre, monotonous, natural, obscure, passable, plain, prevailing, prevalent, probable, prosaic, regular, routine, run-of-the-mill, simple, stale, standard, stereotyped, stock, trite, trivial, typical, undistinguished, universal, unvaried, usual, wearisome, workaday, worn-out

And, going in the other direction:

Main Entry: conventional

Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: common, normal

Synonyms: accepted, accustomed, button-down, commonplace, correct, current, customary, decorous, everyday, expected, fashionable, formal, general, habitual, in established usage, ordinary, orthodox, plain, popular, predominant, prevailing, prevalent, proper, regular, ritual, routine, square, standard, stereotyped, straight, traditional, tralatitious, typical, usual, well-known, wonted

,

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Parsing meanings of words to argue a point can prove to be fruitless with the inexact English language.

For instance:

Here's what thesaurus.com says for the word "common."

(Bolding mine.)



And, going in the other direction:




,

How funny. But isn't the accepted phrase "conventional wisdom" and not "common wisdom" when referring to an idea that is generally accepted as true? I think some on this thread argue just for the sake of argument so no matter what approach you take to trying to explaining your position, there will not be any "conventional" ground. (Sorry - couldn't resist slipping that in instead of common ground )

 

[Robo]

How funny. But isn't the accepted phrase "conventional wisdom" and not "common wisdom" when referring to an idea that is generally accepted as true?

As I see it, the terms are virtually interchangeable per the dictionary/thesaurus listings.

But, if someone is set on taking offense or finding fault, I'm sure the
precise meaning can be debated until the web shuts down.

Anyone can state something in any manner (s)he wants.
But, it doesn't mean that someone reading will comprehend the intended meaning,
or agree with the stance if offense is taken.

 

[flicx]

Okay per this website, monorail trains are already being maintained for regular maintenance, so the closing of the monorail runs at 11 pm due to maintenance procedures are null and void. I guess Disney is trying to save money.

[/B]

I'm right with you brunette.It appears to be another cost/service cutting ploy to me! I will not believe that all of a sudden there are all these maintenance issues.If it was a refurb job why wouldn't they just say so like they do with everything else?