Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[FireDancer]

The internal memo states, it is a permanent change.

I have learned over the years that CMs get it wrong, even if the information came from an "internal memo". Many times the information goes through a lot of people before it gets to them so you have a "telephone game" scenario and other times I think they just pass along rumors they've heard. Heck, where I work this happens and we have no where near the amount of people. Some memos even get drafted and sent prematurely.

They might also not know how long the maintenance will take. 6 months, a year, 2 years, longer? Having no end time for it yet doesn't make it permanent, just indefinite. A lot of people hear indefinite and think permanent which would be one explanation if it is a miscommunication.

Like I said, only time will tell. As a PP stated, nothing is permanent at Disney. Even if the change is intended to be permanent if occupancy goes down at the monorail resorts and less people eat in the restaurants the decision will be reevaluated.

 

[brucec32]

What'ya think WDW grosses in a day? A week? A year? Compare the potential revenue loss from ticked off visitors and damaged goodwill from having your literal icon of the MK experience shuttered at closing time to any potential cost savings from sending a couple dozen employees home early and it looks to be a case of Disney bending over in front of a steam roller to pick up nickels. It's like going to the grocery store, spending $250, and worrying about that nickle you dropped down the seat in your car.

My hunch is if you're discounting hotel rooms 40% and giving away free meals to fill rooms you're not at the point where you can afford to tick off too many potential visitors.

It's not a "big deal" by itself. But it's all the little things that wind up damaging a brand. The reason they do these things thinking it'll do no real harm is that the damage done is almost impossible to measure in the short term. The Grand Canyon didn't become a hole in the ground overnight.

I'd also note that WDW at many times of the year is like one of those old small towns where they "roll up the sidewalks at night". There is not a lot to do past about 7pm unless you head to Epcot till 9pm. (don't say DTD, they can stay home and hit the mall, a restaurant, or a bar). When people are spending $600 or more a day to be there, they might appreciate it if the few times you do let them enjoy a park late, you stick around to get them back to their expensive hotel rooms the most efficient way possible.

 

[docusmc1]

Well reading post 414 it is not from a Disney Official but a CM not working transportation. The DVC post still is not an official announcement from the Walt Disney World Company. So until I hear it or see it on the Disney website or news release it is still only conjecture and hearsay. Belive what you want but I do not think Disney would shutdown early any transportation without alot of advance notice. No good business would.

 

[Traveliz]

Well reading post 414 it is not from a Disney Official but a CM not working transportation. The DVC post still is not an official announcement from the Walt Disney World Company. So until I hear it or see it on the Disney website or news release it is still only conjecture and hearsay. Belive what you want but I do not think Disney would shutdown early any transportation without alot of advance notice. No good business would.

Disney is not going to announce this change to the customer in advance. CMs have read it on the Hub, it has been announced to them in meetings, work hours have been adjusted to reflect the changes. Come this week we will be reading the first hand accounts of guests at Disney who are affected by the change.

Do you think managers just make up this stuff for the morning meetings?

I believe it. My daughter works at Disney and confirms it is on the Hub and she has been told about it this weekend in work meetings. I know "we" like to think we know it all first but the fact is the CMs get this information first generally speaking and then the change goes into effect.

Liz
EDA: Didn't realize my post 414 was the one being referred to as others earlier posted the info straight from the Hub (I don't have that access). A couple of other CMs who do work in transportation have also posted the facts earlier in the thread.

 

[morethananyonex]

Disney is not going to announce this change to the customer in advance. CMs have read it on the Hub, it has been announced to them in meetings, work hours have been adjusted to reflect the changes. Come this week we will be reading the first hand accounts of guests at Disney who are affected by the change.

I believe it. My daughter works at Disney and confirms it is on the Hub and she has been told about it this weekend in work meetings. I know "we" like to think we know it all first but the fact is the CMs get this information first generally speaking and then the change goes into effect.

Liz

Could you imagine how they would word that magical announcement to the public? Definitely a far cry from their usual advertisements.

 

[stargazertechie]

Could you imagine how they would word that magical announcement to the public? Definitely a far cry from their usual advertisements.

I can see it now- Mickey pushing a stroller with a screaming toddler, Dad
With a hip flask, grandma veering wildly across the sidewalk in her ECV. mom dragging the preschooler by the backpack leash, all walking to the CR at night.

"The Magic of our Monorail Resorts at night, where families can bond during a leisurly, picturesque stroll. Building healthy families, only in a place where dreams come true. Discover the Magic!"

But seriously, last trip I was stranded on the monorail for over an hour. If this reduction in service can prevent that for the future, I'm a-ok with bus/boat during EMHs.

 

[racefanof88]

I posted this on another thread here, but feel that it is worth repeating. I know I will be flamed, but when the rose colored glasses come off it makes a lot of sense.

This is my theory--Attendance will start to fall off at evening EMH--fewer attractions will be open during EMH--Disney will announce the discontinuance of EMH all together, due to low attendance .

This is a cost cutting measure for sure, but in light of the rising ticket prices(2 times in less than a year), the cost of eating in the parks, and value resorts charging what some 3 star resorts charge, it isn't a good move on the part of Disney. There comes a time when the consumer says "ENOUGH", and Disney is pushing the envelope.

Not to mention the hit this will have on the pocket's of Disney employees and the economy. They will make less money due to decrease in hours worked, thus having less expendable cash. It is trickle down economics in reverse.

It is making me rethink my plans on buying DVC for sure . We go to Disney 2-3 times a year, but this may seriously effect that, and my renewing my APs next month. As most people know it is nothing for a freak thunderstorm to come from nowhere, in Central Florida, and the thought of having to walk to CR during one is less than appealing.

Since I am a nurse, and don't have a business degree, maybe "The powers that be" see something I don't, but I do see my Disney vacation dollars buying me less and less every day.


While I understand how Disney would wanting safer, more reliable, transportation for the guests, I still don't buy it being a maintenance issue. Is Disney saying the monorails are safe and reliable during regular park hours, but become unsafe and unreliable once EMHs begin? If that be the case then Disney is putting themselves in a very vulnerable(can anyone say lawsuits?) position if they stand with that theory. With 11 trains on the monorail circuit, they could take 3-4 trains down at a time for maintenance and not cause any problem with the transportation system. EMH at MK and Epcot account for 2-3 nights a week allowing 4-5 nights for maintenance. When they take anything else down for maintenance they don't run it during normal operating hours. When is the last time anyone rode Primeval Whirl? The idea that it may be an OSHA deal due to the accident in 2009 is problematic since the buses at Disney seem to be in numerous accidents yearly.

Disney has a way of trying to spin things so guests think any inconvenience is in the best interest of the guest when it is really in the best interest of the stock holders.

 

[Disneyadore]

This is my theory--Attendance will start to fall off at evening EMH--fewer attractions will be open during EMH--Disney will announce the discontinuance of EMH all together, due to low attendance .

That makes perfectly sense. I hope they close down EMH because is has become a free loaders experience. Those that pay big money to use it have to wait hours because those that have a FP ,non resorts guests and already expired Fast Passes ,yell at CM and get free aces to all the rides that are supposed to be for resort guests only.

 

[bicker]

PLEASE tell me where I'm stating that Disney does not classify WL as a Deluxe...because I didn't.

Then we are in agreement, so I don't understand your earlier reply.

Resort room rates are affected by supply and demand, and demand is a reflection of myriad factors.

Are you sure? It appears that WDW will be providing boat (where applicable) and bus transportation when the monorail closes.

As it has done in the past when the monorail was not operating for some reason. This isn't something that has never happened before. Disney isn't going to be surprised by what happens the first night this applies. The only difference, this time, is that it isn't explicitly limited in duration.

I had to stop and think no, this isn't April Fools day. Wow, I can't believe when this idea was suggested in a meeting that everyone agreed it was a good idea.

I'm curious: Do you feel that cost of service should ever be a factor in such meetings?

I feel like I should be entitled to a discount for our room at the Contemporary next month

The discount, though, if any is warranted, would be pennies. It isn't a matter of how much you personally value the specific service, but rather how much its value contributed to the pricing that was offered you. That's why most cable companies only refund a pro-rated by-the-hour amount when they have an outage, even if the outage happens to be during the two or three hours during which your favorite show happens to be broadcast. It's why the airlines only give you $5 for lunch while you're waiting for them to find a new aircraft, when the one originally scheduled for your flight is found to be in need of repair. And the cell phone company isn't going to compensate you at all if you happen to be having the job interview of your life on your cell phone, and they drop the call.

I just cannot get my head round why on earth Disney think this is a good idea!

Generally, service providers in the consumer marketplace don't go into detail with their customers about the reasons for their strategic decisions. It is typically treated, and rightfully so, as proprietary information. And perhaps often for the reason highlighted in this thread: That consumers generally couldn't care less about the business' objectives, and the business' concerns. Expounding on those realities with customers doesn't make most customers feel any better about the situation, because generally customers aren't willing to invest the time and energy to really dig into the information that would be provided and start seeing things from a rational, business-oriented view. So the best approach is to generally just say what the change will be, and leave it at that.

People say it's a money issue, but i don't think it's just down to that. If they were so short of cash...

Why assume that money issues are always about cash flow? That makes no sense. Most of the time, money issues are simply a matter of spending money where you'll get the best return on investment.

I think Disney need to get their priorities right.

Which would be what? If you didn't say, "long-term shareholder value," then I can assure you that Disney's owners stand ready to sue the company directors if they see things your way.

Boy won't this be funny to look at when it comes out that this isn't the nuclear holocaust some are making it out to be.

I wouldn't say "funny". Sad, more like.

 

[bicker]

This stinks!!! Why bother staying in a Monorail resort if they are not going to be running during EM hours?

Because the monorails will be running during the other 97.5% of the time.

If the move is truly cost cutting, which I don't think it is, all the online outrage and letter writing in the world won't do a bit of good. The only way they will reconsider is if the occupation at the monorail resorts go down. If the occupancy drops 30-50% while the monorails aren't operating for evening EMH than they will rethink the decision. I have a feeling though that in the end there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth and little follow through. Most people who want to stay on the monorail loop will still stay there because most days are not EMH days and on those days they will not really be inconvenienced.

The big deal is when staying deluxe, you are paying for a higher level of service.

And getting it, even despite this.

The big deal will vary from person to person.

Precisely, so what we really need to be thinking about, when trying to figure out why Disney would be doing this (see comments above) is some sort of aggregate/consensus view among all people.

Disney has a way of trying to spin things so guests think any inconvenience is in the best interest of the guest when it is really in the best interest of the stock holders.

That's what Disney is supposed to do. By the same token, many guests have a way of trying to spin things so that other guests think that any change made is a "nuclear holocaust" (as someone else described it, earlier in the thread). It makes sense, the way Disney handles these things, for the reason I mentioned above. I'm still trying to understand what we get out of the "nuclear holocaust" perspective.

This thread has exploded quicker than Nancy Graces mouth after the Casey Anthony verdict.

Nothing is ever permanent at Disney...

Amen.

 

[Lou Holtz]

Serious question: I've heard people say there is an ignore feature on this website. How do you actually put someone on ignore?

 

[TisBit]

Didn't even try to read this entire thread. But, something to keep in mind, I highly doubt that this has anything to do with "cost cutting" at WDW. The cost is likely moderately higher with the Monorails closed than when they are open. While they may save a few CM's from train stations, operators and dispatchers, they have to add additional busses, drivers, dispatchers etc on that end. This also doesn't take into account the cost of fuel and maintenance on the busses. They will also have to deal with numerous complaints, etc during this time period. I doubt this will be a "permanent" (as permanent as WDW gets) and will likely last for a period of time and they will come back online for EMH's. Then everyone on the Dis can talk about how they saved the monorails!

 

[GadgetRick]

I've been giving this a lot of thought and the more I think about it, the more I believe that maintenance is just a cover and part of the real reason.

There are currently 11, soon hopefully to be 12 working trains.

The resort Monorail can get away with running 3 trains, especially during lighter periods and EPCOT runs only 2 quite frequently. That is only 5 of the possible 11 trains being used.

If you leave 5 trains out at night and send the other 6 back to shop, then the next day send the other trains back and leave the ones that were serviced the previous day out they would be getting plenty of time in shop.

To take it further, even if you took out 4 trains for express the following day or 3 express and added another to the resort line you would still have 1 train back in shop that can be worked on all day.

Now lets say the argument is beam maintenance, you can still choose to do maintenance on select nights of the week when ample time is available.

Exactly. The maintenance excuse just doesn't fly. There are plenty of ways to complete maintenance without doing it a) in the middle of one of their busiest times of the year and b) all at once unless it's something major and I just don't believe it's anything major at this point.

 

[fan1080]

Serious question: I've heard people say there is an ignore feature on this website. How do you actually put someone on ignore?

In case you were serious:

1. Click "Quick Links" above.
2. Click "Edit Options".
3. Click "Edit Ignore List".
4. Enter the user name you want to ignore, click "Okay".

Voila!

 

[GadgetRick]

But how feasible is it to do that work at night, especially in the areas immediately around the resorts? Not very. That why this feels to me like a move to lighten the load so that maintenance can be further deferred rather than a change intended to actually allow for those repairs to happen.

If it were shutting down to do maintenance, they would have explained it that way as they have with other things in the past. Disney knows PR and they know what a firestorm this is going to cause. If it were a temporary thing they most certainly would have explained it that way. Instead they have made it clear it's permanent.

If it's such a big issue, they wouldn't plan to shut it down and certainly not in the middle of one of their busiest seasons of the year. If it were that big of a deal, they'd just do it and say, "Sorry for the inconvenience," and post a quote from Walt Disney on a board, etc....

And it's quite feasible to do maintenance at night if it's a safety issue...

 

[GadgetRick]

Nothing is ever permanent at Disney...

Hmm, price increases are permanent.

I'm not judging, I'm just saying...

 

[GadgetRick]

Since I am a nurse, and don't have a business degree, maybe "The powers that be" see something I don't, but I do see my Disney vacation dollars buying me less and less every day.


Disney has a way of trying to spin things so guests think any inconvenience is in the best interest of the guest when it is really in the best interest of the stock holders.

Well-said!!!!!

 

[bluejasmine]

I have to say I just dont understand it.. WIth the cost of everything in WDW sky rocketing ( I understand its everywhere) it doesnt seem right, not to mention the fact that the monorail is why we book and pay ALOT Of extra money to stay at the monorail resorts! I mean I know I can take the boats but its not as quick or convenient..I think Ill send an email..Everyone who is unhappy with this decision should do the same, WDW really listens, not to say it will change it but maybe it will help!

 

[lovethattink]

Maybe this has already been addressed?

Wouldn't everyone benefit if just the express line was closed during the stated times. It would free up how ever many trains to be worked on. Leave the resort monorail still running for guests dining and at parks. And take it one loop at a time with the maintanence.

I will be interested to see how NOJ and MNSSHP work out (for guests not staying at a Disney resort, at the TTC) with only the ferry running.

 

[bicker]

But, something to keep in mind, I highly doubt that this has anything to do with "cost cutting" at WDW. The cost is likely moderately higher with the Monorails closed than when they are open. While they may save a few CM's from train stations, operators and dispatchers, they have to add additional busses, drivers, dispatchers etc on that end. This also doesn't take into account the cost of fuel and maintenance on the busses. They will also have to deal with numerous complaints, etc during this time period.

While that does make some sense, it does gloss over some critical aspects of this. Buses can be scheduled much more flexibly, and rerouted in-the-moment, to adjust to changing demands. You can send three buses or one bus; your choice. The monorails can only do one thing, and running a monorail train incurs the entire cost of running that train, even if you only need one car's worth of capacity. Beyond that, bus and road maintenance is a continual cost, true, but that obscures the true cost of the monorails since much of the cost of the monorail infrastructure is easy for guests like us to ignore until the maintenance is needed, and it is much more expensive when the infrastructure needs to be remediated (read: a comparatively higher drain on available resources all-at-once).

The maintenance excuse just doesn't fly.

Looking at it as an "excuse" is off-the-mark. It is being presented as an explanation, not an excuse.

There are plenty of ways to complete maintenance without doing it a) in the middle of one of their busiest times of the year

Except if the maintenance will take more than a year. We have no sound reason to believe that the maintenance being referred to won't require a multiple year effort.

and b) all at once unless it's something major and I just don't believe it's anything major at this point.

Refusing to believe something isn't a good way to consider all the possibilities.

Hmm, price increases are permanent. I'm not judging, I'm just saying...

While I think you've hit on the one exception that proves the rule, the reality is that my family's admission prices did go down one year, comparing same-to-same. We had been buying 7 day passes for our trips every 18 months, for several years, and then one year the price was lower than the previous year - it was because the pricing changed to have expiring and non-expiring passes, but since we hadn't been using the passes on more that one trip that nuance didn't affect us. So effectively, Disney lowered its prices to folks who don't care to buy non-expiring passes.

However, it does rely on that specific set of circumstances: Otherwise, like you alluded to, price increases is indeed one thing, and perhaps the only thing, that is truly permanent at WDW.