Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[lovethattink]

The thought is mostly brought up as far as handicap people or elderly people that have trouble walking long distances, or people with asthma. I agree, the path is fine to walk, it's short and relaxing, never packed, I enjoy. Just for certain people I feel there should be some sort of transportation such as a golf cart right or something of that sort.

Perhaps they will provide courtesy wheel chairs like they have at the parking lots to tranport people who rent wheel chairs at the park for the walk to the Contemporary?

 

[Cafeen]

Right, if safety is the reason, then how can it be safe during the daytime?

Perhaps it's truly not .

(This was just the most recent quote on the matter, many others have said the same thing).

As for the train numbers thing. I don't see 8-10 of 10/11 "a fraction of" the available trains. They typically run a base of 8 as we see earlier and increase to 10-11 on the super busy days (or even just as peak times come up). While 8/11 is technically and mathematically a fraction, that's not where you use the term "a fraction of". So, we possibly have "a fraction of" the trains left in the barn for the day, and those can get maintained just fine. The others, not so much.

However, that's neither here nor there, it's just interesting to see someone so adamant that it's all about one side, be so considerably off of what he uses to base a portion of his position.

--

The real reason is likely "All of the above". Train/Track work, train/track preservation (reduced wear and tear), along with cutting costs down a bit. It's very unlikely that this decision was made solely for a single factor.

The timing, is likely either moved up due to recent issues with the track (I'd guess they've had this plan in place for awhile, just were waiting until slower seasons to launch it) or because they actually know the difference in usage between the summer (when the only post closing time is EMH) and the fall (when the parties take up several nights a week along with EMH). Starting this at this time of the year can test the system and work out transportation kinks that would threaten to blow up the whole system come fall.

The same deal with doing Epcot ahead of MK. The Epcot line is quite a bit newer and less heavily traveled than the MK lines (surprised no one mentioned that ) and the demand for monorails post regular close is likely a lot lower since you only have the Poly/GF/CR resort guests and a handful that may have parked at TTC that day. (Compared to the same resort guests (minus a few that walk to CR), plus everyone who drove to MK).

I'm sure it's a mess right now, I'm sure that it'll get smoother after awhile. I'm sure it'll become a mess again once the parties start rolling around, and I'm sure that it'll smooth out again.

(As a note, I'm staying pretty neutral on the actual matter here. Only trying to provide a different perspective).

(Edit: As far as the bus to CR goes, while I don't know and no one has mentioned it here, I'd venture to guess that they'd have to have one, specifically for guests with mobility issues. Whether or not that's open to the GP is another story, but for those with mobility concerns, I'd strongly guess that there is one. Maybe someone who's been there since Monday and has asked that specific question can clarify).

 

[kaytieeldr]

I'm not the one who said they're literally falling apart, someone else did. However, you are also making it seem like things are falling off the trains all of the time when it's just not true. I think you'd be surprised at what you'd find on the floor in Space Mountain. These things are moving, there are lots of moving parts, things will fall off from time to time and that's why they do regular, scheduled, maintenance to make sure these things don't cause major problems.

Does Space Mountain have that many moving parts? Or is what's found on the floor thrown or lost out of the cars by guests? Anyway, with its individual cars, it's easy to take one or more offline for repairs while still running the attraction. And there are times or days when Space is unexpectedly down for mechanical or maintenance issues.

 

[kaytieeldr]

However, I do recall seeing news stories about parts falling off and a small fire on the Las Vegas monorail. I believe they are running retired WDW trains, which would now be 40 years old.

Perhaps the PP was confused?

While they were designed by the same company (I think), and the Las Vegas monorail did have parts-falling-off problems way back at the beginning, the trains were new then. IIRC, they're like the DisneyLand one inside - so they can't be the old WDW trains.
Plus, it doesnt seem reasonable those outdated, end of life nineteen year old trains would be saved somewhere for six years in case Las Vegas wanted 'em.

 

[racefanof88]

This. A certain vocal segment keep inventing reasons (Other than a Disney money grab) for another reason they could be doing this. The track (not the pushed beyond their expected age and refusal to replace them trains) is now supposedly the reason. This though doesn't even come close to passing the sniff test.

Track repair requires an extensive period where nothing is running on them (assuming that the track is in such dire shape). If this were the reason, the system would have to go offline, it would be unsafe to continue to operate for any period until the track was brought back up to code. I just dint see any way this could be the explanation.

I think we are back to 2 things really, 1. The monorail is likely the most expensive mode of transport they operate and any reduction in said operation will result in a savings for Disney (I think this is the most likely) and 2. They have equipment needing to be replaced that they are hoping to limp along with for awhile longer (While probably true, I imagine replacement cost is secondary to saving operations costs, replacement had to be budget into the operations budget over the years one would assume).

I have to agree. I know I'm not the only person who has a love for Disney . In fact I am picked on ALL the time by co-workers and friends who say I have blinders on about any other vacation spot or options, but I am getting tired of prices continuing to go up and services continuing to go down. For the past 3 years we have made 3 trips a year as we only have to drive 8 hours, and we have APs, so it is easy for us to take a long weekend and drive down. We were there over the Memorial Day weekend and we stayed at the DTD Hilton and I have to say I am really hard pressed to stay at a Disney resort again. We paid a $100 a night less to stay at the Hilton than we would have paid to stay at All Star Sports. When we were there in March we stayed at SSR and the Hilton beat them hands down. That is just a small example of how prices keep going up at Disney and services keep going down.

While it may not seem like much to most, the room service at the Hilton was the highlight of the trip for my DS.

This is how they delivered his pizza and DH hamburger, at Disney they bring you a box to the door with paper plates and napkins in a bag, at a HIGHER price. I was able to go downstairs and get take out at Benihana's.

I just meant that if this is a permanent change they should offer more and better boat service. Spending money buying the freindship boats I'm sure is a lot less expensive than buying a new monorail.

But there has yet to be an answer about what will happen when there is strong winds or in climate weather. The boats DO NOT run at those times.

Again, it's a very slippery slope. You'd have the logistical issues--how do you police it properly and how do you keep from making everyone upset and causing a scene?

And where would you stop? Alright, I haven't done Mickey's Royal Philharmagic in a couple of years. Why am I paying for that in my ticket? Can't they just add a couple of dollars if I want to do that?

This is why they got rid of the ticketing scheme they used when they first opened and why almost every major theme park in the world doesn't do ticketing for each ride. It's much simpler for EVERYONE to sell just one ticket which gets you everything.

Food and other extras like that are a different thing entirely.

The logistics would likely be difficult, but I don't see it as the same as a ride at the park. Everyone has the option of seeing Philharmagic once they pay to get in the park, but I don't have the option of riding on DME, yet I pay for it. When I get a preferred room I pay extra for it and no one else has to share in that optional cost, I choose it or I don't. It could be an extra charge..............., that can be an optional cost or the guest could choose to rent a car, take a taxi, etc.

They have a predictable amount of time each and every night when they can work on trains. All of the trains are not in use at the same time. I really can't grasp what you're missing here. It's not like they run ALL of the trains ALL of the time so there's no time for maintenance. There's time for maintenance. When the busy season is over they'll have more time for maintenance. A couple of extra hours a night just isn't going to add all that much to make a difference on something like this..

Agreed 100%.

However, I do recall seeing news stories about parts falling off and a small fire on the Las Vegas monorail. I believe they are running retired WDW trains, which would now be 40 years old.

Perhaps the PP was confused?

I have to agree with you, even though the PP who made the comment about parts falling off was adamant that it happened at Disney on July 3rd and stated it over and over, and some others latched on to it like it was a life raft.. I wanted the official statement or report so I could make an informed decision about my upcoming trip and if I wanted to ride the monorail at all or even walk under the tracks.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Also, and I'll say it again as others have but you ignore this as well, the uproar from many (not all) has nothing to do with this particular issue, it's with the fact that Disney has been pulling this kind of BS more and more over recent years and we're getting tired of it. You can make excuses for them (you--and others--have concocted this theory about how the cars are falling apart and have to be fixed, etc.) all you want but it doesn't change the fact that guest are getting less and less for their dollars. You can also make excuses about that all you want as well but it doesn't change that FACT.

I have spent a lot of time on the DCL boards the past couple of years and not on the WDW board until planning our most recent vacation (which BTW was the best WDW vacation we've had since our first trip with the kids in 2001). Could you enlighten me on these "facts" where Disney pulls this kind of BS over recent years?

I'm not being facetious, I sincerely want to know what these other issues are? Perhaps I'm too naive since Disney just surpassed my expectations on our most recent trip. I truthfully wasn't looking forward to it as I preferred to go on another cruise, but it reminded me why we enjoy WDW so much and keep returning.

You can debate that all you want, it's a key piece of the business to Disney. Has been since the start. That's why it's been used in countless marketing materials and countless commercials, etc. It is part of their identity and, whether you think so or not, is an attraction itself.

How often do you hear people talking about wanting to ride the monorail? Kids--mine included--are sometimes quite happy just riding the monorail even if they never enter a park.

Make no mistake, it's a key piece of the business to Disney...

Sounds like our kids (and me)! We've been known to just ride the monorail loop the night before going on a cruise just to get a small taste of WDW even if we aren't visiting a park. I do miss not being able to ride in the front of the monorail. I understand it's a safety issue after the terrible accident, but it would be fun if they allowed that again.

Well, called this afternoon.. to get the skinny. I was assured, the monorails will run on party nights. (still not convinced). So, if it's true, I'm loosing sight of why the monorail, is shutting down,for extra magic hours

This is the second time someone posted that they called and didn't believe the answer given about running the monorail for party nights. I guess we'll have to wait until September to know for sure. But it is a good point and I've wondered why they just didn't make it a fixed closing time. With respect to your question, I personally think that this was a huge public relations blunder for Disney. Someone didn't think it through or underestimated the outcry. Regardless, they didn't have their act together and it was not thought out before it was communicated to the public. The real reason for doing it is probably somewhere in the middle of the extremes on this thread. I believe that it's probably not purely just a financial move nor is it purely a maintenance move. We'll never really know anything for sure as to the exact reasons for both the timing and reason for this change other than the fact that this whole issue has frustrated a lot of guests. Taking an extremely apologetic or extremely cynic viewpoint seems to only accomplish one thing - a very entertaining thread to read!

 

[racefanof88]

The thought is mostly brought up as far as handicap people or elderly people that have trouble walking long distances, or people with asthma. I agree, the path is fine to walk, it's short and relaxing, never packed, I enjoy. Just for certain people I feel there should be some sort of transportation such as a golf cart right or something of that sort.

My youngest DS has asthma and at times it has been an issue at Disney. When he was younger we would rent a double stroller so we would have the extra room to carry his nebulizer and other supplies. On one of our cold weather trips we had to rent a wheelchair because he was having difficultly breathing by the middle of the day. While golf carts would be fine for some, it would not be an option for those wheelchair bound.

Perhaps they will provide courtesy wheel chairs like they have at the parking lots to tranport people who rent wheel chairs at the park for the walk to the Contemporary?

That would be good except for grandpa and grandma who are both on ECVs, no one to push them back.

Does Space Mountain have that many moving parts? Or is what's found on the floor thrown or lost out of the cars by guests? Anyway, with its individual cars, it's easy to take one or more offline for repairs while still running the attraction. And there are times or days when Space is unexpectedly down for mechanical or maintenance issues.

Unless I am completely wrong(shhhhhhhh DH can never know I even alluded to such)the tracks would have to move somewhat to help reduce the chance of a stress fracture in the steel. While not a roller coaster, if you stand under the track at TT you will see the track moving when the cars go by. I know the tracks on a wooden coaster move thus adding to the thrill of the ride.

 

[mom2rtk]

Could you enlighten me on these "facts" where Disney pulls this kind of BS over recent years?

The quote you were responding to was not mine, so I don't have a complete answer for you. But I can think of a couple recent examples....... first, the elimination of characters from EMH due to "lack of demand". Second, the only answer they could come up with to fix the long lines at the Tangled Meet & Greet was removal of Flynn, half of the attraction. Funny how both answers were also the answers that saved Disney money. In fact, I find the the fact that the monorail change came immediately on the heels of those changes to make this one seem suspect too.

With respect to the EMH, when you consider the elimination of characters, along with the monorail change, and the fact that they are doing surveys on this very matter.......... it seems pretty evident that cutting out EMH is high on their list of changes they would like to make.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

The quote you were responding to was not mine, so I don't have a complete answer for you. But I can think of a couple recent examples....... first, the elimination of characters from EMH due to "lack of demand". Second, the only answer they could come up with to fix the long lines at the Tangled Meet & Greet was removal of Flynn, half of the attraction. Funny how both answers were also the answers that saved Disney money. In fact, I find the the fact that the monorail change came immediately on the heels of those changes to make this one seem suspect too.

With respect to the EMH, when you consider the elimination of characters, along with the monorail change, and the fact that they are doing surveys on this very matter.......... it seems pretty evident that cutting out EMH is high on their list of changes they would like to make.

Evening EMH themselves have only been around for a few years. Until they remove them, many can argue that it is still an overall "positive" thing Disney has added over the past decade. I don't recall characters in the old days of E-ticket nights when you had to pay extra to attend. If character interaction were important to us, I'd probably feel frustrated by this but it wouldn't be any different to us than our favorite attraction being down for refurb during our visit. At least there are lots of other opportunities for character interaction if that's your thing. But like many things, once you add something, everyone feels entitled to it so if you remove a part of it, it is a negative even if overall, it may still a net positive.

With respect to the removal of Flynn. Don't characters come and go all the time? I don't see that as BS, but as SOP for Disney. We've seen characters added and removed all the time. We've seen lots of characters over the years that are no longer there and lots others have been added.

I'm not trying to be an apologist, but pointing out that there are two sides to most everything. We were frustrated when Disney removed the "free" buttons and "free" pictures from the hard-party events several years ago. We enjoyed those small perks. I'm sure others didn't miss these items and didn't care one way or the other that they were removed as a cost-cutting measure.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I just plain don't see how changing from one form of transportation to another for four of 26 resorts six hours a week (of over 300) portends to "they're ending evening EMH"

See mom2rtk's post below: Sums up exactly what I was thinking.

The quote you were responding to was not mine, so I don't have a complete answer for you. But I can think of a couple recent examples....... first, the elimination of characters from EMH due to "lack of demand". Second, the only answer they could come up with to fix the long lines at the Tangled Meet & Greet was removal of Flynn, half of the attraction. Funny how both answers were also the answers that saved Disney money. In fact, I find the the fact that the monorail change came immediately on the heels of those changes to make this one seem suspect too.

With respect to the EMH, when you consider the elimination of characters, along with the monorail change, and the fact that they are doing surveys on this very matter.......... it seems pretty evident that cutting out EMH is high on their list of changes they would like to make.

Exactly. It's not such a giant leap to connect the dots here, is it.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

See mom2rtk's post below: Sums exactly what I was thinking.



Exactly. It's not such a giant leap to connect the dots here, is it.

If they do eliminate evening EMH, can someone remember what year this perk was added? I seem to recall that it was somewhere around 2004 give or take a year or so. Just curious to see how long this perk would have lasted.

If they do eliminate it, I hope they add more hard ticket events such as the E-ticket nights or even PPP. That would be a net positive for us and I'm sure others would see it as a net negative.

 

[mom2rtk]

Evening EMH themselves have only been around for a few years. Until they remove them, many can argue that it is still an overall "positive" thing Disney has added over the past decade. I don't recall characters in the old days of E-ticket nights when you had to pay extra to attend. If character interaction were important to us, I'd probably feel frustrated by this but it wouldn't be any different to us than our favorite attraction being down for refurb during our visit. At least there are lots of other opportunities for character interaction if that's your thing. But like many things, once you add something, everyone feels entitled to it so if you remove a part of it, it is a negative even if overall, it may still a net positive.

With respect to the removal of Flynn. Don't characters come and go all the time? I don't see that as BS, but as SOP for Disney. We've seen characters added and removed all the time. We've seen lots of characters over the years that are no longer there and lots others have been added.

I'm not trying to be an apologist, but pointing out that there are two sides to most everything. We were frustrated when Disney removed the "free" buttons and "free" pictures from the hard-party events several years ago. We enjoyed those small perks. I'm sure others didn't miss these items and didn't care one way or the other that they were removed as a cost-cutting measure.

I just threw them out there as an example of how Disney likes to make cost cuts, but tries to position that change as being for something OTHER than cost-cutting. The EMH characters are going because of "lack of demand".........Flynn is going so we can make the line shorter. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for people to question whether their most recent statement on the monorail was really about maintenance, or was indeed a cost-cutting move...... being spun into something different by the PR Dept.

 

[Rhode Island Quahog]

If you want to send any concerns regarding this change, the email address to write to is wdw.guest.communication@disneyworld.com. If it concerns you this much, here is the way you can voice your opinion and let Disney know how you feel!

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I just threw them out there as an example of how Disney likes to make cost cuts, but tries to position that change as being for something OTHER than cost-cutting. The EMH characters are going because of "lack of demand".........Flynn is going so we can make the line shorter. So it wouldn't be unprecedented for people to question whether their most recent statement on the monorail was really about maintenance, or was indeed a cost-cutting move...... being spun into something different by the PR Dept.

I guess I don't pay enough attention to the reasons why things are done. If something is done, I either choose to accept it, whine to others about it or actually take time to write to complain about it.

How do we know that EMH characters aren't going for lack of demand? Late at night, I've seen no lines for the characters to the point where they are a lot of fun as they have time to goof off in character or spend a lot of time with guests. I've never tried to see a character during EMH itself, so I would have no idea if there is demand for this or not. It seems plausible to me.

With respect to Flynn, again it seems plausible as I've heard that the line is horribly long. When we were there in June, I saw this very long line near the castle and asked what they were waiting for and someone told me. I just thought -- thank goodness for boys!

And as I said in my original post, I do believe that the change in monorail closing times was handled very poorly by PR. I just don't see a long list of "BS moves" by Disney that some others state exist. I'm not doubting it, I just want to know what these "facts" are that portend the demise of Disney as we know it.

 

[lovethattink]

If you want to send any concerns regarding this change, the email address to write to is wdw.guest.communication@disneyworld.com. If it concerns you this much, here is the way you can voice your opinion and let Disney know how you feel!

Many of us have, and so far we've all received the same canned answer from Disney that didn't even address our specific questions.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

If they do eliminate evening EMH, can someone remember what year this perk was added? I seem to recall that it was somewhere around 2004 give or take a year or so. Just curious to see how long this perk would have lasted.

If they do eliminate it, I hope they add more hard ticket events such as the E-ticket nights or even PPP. That would be a net positive for us and I'm sure others would see it as a net negative.

Does it matter how long that perk has been offered? The point is that Disney touts it as a reason to stay at one of their hotels, an extra benefit. Which I am sure most certainly is built into the price of the hotel rooms. If they remove EMH, it smacks of yet another cost cutting measure. Less being offered but prices still rising.

I too enjoy the hard ticket parties and have no problem paying for it. I expect it since it's considered "extra". But Disney sure goes to alot of trouble advertising the benefits for staying onsite which includes EMH.

My feeling is that they did a serious cost analysis of evening EMH and came to the conclusion that it's costing them more then they're making off of it. The recent surveys seems to indicate they want to test the waters. So they start saying the monorail needs maintenance and now they "have" to close an hour after the parks close in order to address it. Which in turn will make it more incovienent to return to your hotel afterward and might make you second guess doing EMH in the future. This paves the way for Disney to say that since attendance is so low for EMH, they can just eliminate it altogether (at least the evening one). Add in the bonus of Disney not having to run their monorails as long and well, they're killing two birds with one stone.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

If you want to send any concerns regarding this change, the email address to write to is wdw.guest.communication@disneyworld.com. If it concerns you this much, here is the way you can voice your opinion and let Disney know how you feel!

But all Disney does is send you back a form letter response and don't answer your specific questions. And even if they do answer them, I don't believe it anyway. It's better to inform others on bulletin boards that Disney is an untrustworthy capitalistic pig of a company.

Seriously, thanks for the link. I've suggested the same thing myself a couple of times on this thread only be told to mind my manners rather than infer it can't be discussed.

 

[racefanof88]

The quote you were responding to was not mine, so I don't have a complete answer for you. But I can think of a couple recent examples....... first, the elimination of characters from EMH due to "lack of demand". Second, the only answer they could come up with to fix the long lines at the Tangled Meet & Greet was removal of Flynn, half of the attraction. Funny how both answers were also the answers that saved Disney money. In fact, I find the the fact that the monorail change came immediately on the heels of those changes to make this one seem suspect too.

With respect to the EMH, when you consider the elimination of characters, along with the monorail change, and the fact that they are doing surveys on this very matter.......... it seems pretty evident that cutting out EMH is high on their list of changes they would like to make.

Agreed. I think it is a round about way for Disney to cut out EMH and make it look like an attendance problem, when there is no reliable transportation out of the parks, after EMH, then less people will go. While some say the boats and buses will be there, they are horrible when the monorail is running, and the boats can not run during bad weather .

Here are a few more cuts over time:
First cut to DDP was no appetizer or tip but the price increased.
New cuts cut out one snack from Quick Service plan, while price stayed the same, you get less for your $$ thus a price increase
On specific days there was Character Caravan at Disney resorts, no more
After 10 pm DME will NOT deliver your luggage to your resort, you have to get it yourself.
Fantasmic shows cut(until recently)
Pleasure Island gone completely
Resort Package Delivery Service Cut
Resort Valet Parking Fees Implemented
Garden Grill no longer serves breakfast or lunch

I could go on but I will leave it there.

 

[TLSnell1981]

This is the second time someone posted that they called and didn't believe the answer given about running the monorail for party nights. I guess we'll have to wait until September to know for sure. But it is a good point and I've wondered why they just didn't make it a fixed closing time. With respect to your question, I personally think that this was a huge public relations blunder for Disney. Someone didn't think it through or underestimated the outcry. Regardless, they didn't have their act together and it was not thought out before it was communicated to the public. The real reason for doing it is probably somewhere in the middle of the extremes on this thread. I believe that it's probably not purely just a financial move nor is it purely a maintenance move. We'll never really know anything for sure as to the exact reasons for both the timing and reason for this change other than the fact that this whole issue has frustrated a lot of guests. Taking an extremely apologetic or extremely cynic viewpoint seems to only accomplish one thing - a very entertaining thread to read!

Too many times, CM's dont have the right answer. Last year, I called 9 times, over 2 days, talked to numerous CM's, supervisors, etc...over a ticket issue. I KNEW, I was right. Finally, the last call, randomly got a CM, that had the correct info...took about 3 minutes to correct. Not everyone, at Disney, is on the same or right page.

 

[GadgetRick]

Does Space Mountain have that many moving parts? Or is what's found on the floor thrown or lost out of the cars by guests? Anyway, with its individual cars, it's easy to take one or more offline for repairs while still running the attraction. And there are times or days when Space is unexpectedly down for mechanical or maintenance issues.

What does the number of moving parts have to do with this? If things fall off, they fall off. I was using Space Mountain as an example as another attraction which has a lot going on which needs maintenance.

And, has been pointed out, there has been mention of parts coming off but nothing to back it up. I certainly believe things fall off much more often than we'd like to think on anything which gets used as much as the monorails do.

And yes, SM goes down for unexpected maintenance but it's never announced as permanent and they certainly don't give a few days notice like they did before stopping the service after hours on the monorail. They did a full refurb on it and it was never announced as permanent, remember? They gave us an idea of how long it'll take.

Again, I really can't understand how you refuse to look at the possibility it is not a maintenance issue since there is more than enough evidence to suggest it is certainly not the real reason it's being closed. I can understand why someone would think (or want to think in this case) it's only a maintenance issue, whether I agree with it or not is another thing entirely.