Modern Feminism

[Princess Dolly]

Well FWIW, I'm very firmly part of Team Feminist, and I think a relationship is a partnership too. The radical, extreme people are NEVER an accurate representative of the group they claim to belong to, IMO.

I agree.

 

[Colleen27]

Also, read some of the fiction that is captivating young women today. That kind of explains it all.

I don't think you can really extrapolate from fiction to reality. That lack of empowerment/control is a common element of escapist fiction - it is the fantasy of indulging in out of character or forbidden actions without having to take responsibility for them. And it is almost essential in fiction of a sexual nature aimed at women because of the messages our culture sends about women's sexuality; women want/need a justification for a female character abandoning the inhibitions we're taught are proper and appropriate.

 

[jbcheerchick93]

Well FWIW, I'm very firmly part of Team Feminist, and I think a relationship is a partnership too. The radical, extreme people are NEVER an accurate representative of the group they claim to belong to, IMO.

So we agree

However, I also think it's fair to say the most extreme people of a group are, more than likely, the person who you will remember from the group, not the one who was similar to you or who was not obnoxious about their beliefs.

 

[Tiggeroo]

Ick, is it? Bella is just as bad if not worse.

But many I the young women I am around read this stuff. Thy also watch the Bachelor, etc. They don't seem to jump into a career. I am supportive of choosing to stay home with your children. I just think you need to get an education, begin a career and then start a family. Otherwise you marry, have children and stay home with them. You are completely dependent on your dh and if seething goes wrong you have no experience to fall back on when you go back to work. Kwim. I do know bright hard working young women. But I seem to see many who don't realize how fortunate they are. If they want to run in he Olympics they can wear what they want not pants and a head covering.

 

[MoonFaerie]

So we agree

However, I also think it's fair to say the most extreme people of a group are, more than likely, the person who you will remember from the group, not the one who was similar to you or who was not obnoxious about their beliefs.

I guess. But take the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. They are certainly memorable in a bad way. I'm an atheist, and when I think of Christians, I don't automatically think of WBC. I know they're a radical, fringe group, so I don't think that they are a representative of modern Christianity at all.

Also, I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 32, so an older teacher 15+ years ago that claimed to be feminist wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with current feminist ideals. She would be at least one if not two generations before mine.

 

[WowLookAtThat]

But many I the young women I am around read this stuff. Thy also watch the Bachelor, etc. They don't seem to jump into a career. I am supportive of choosing to stay home with your children. I just think you need to get an education, begin a career and then start a family. Otherwise you marry, have children and stay home with them. You are completely dependent on your dh and if seething goes wrong you have no experience to fall back on when you go back to work. Kwim. I do know bright hard working young women. But I seem to see many who don't realize how fortunate they are. If they want to run in he Olympics they can wear what they want not pants and a head covering.

Perhaps the women you know who read that series, read it because it is popular? It isn't a very good story and probably would not have gotten to be as famous if not for the sex scenes and word of mouth. I think you are trying to make the assessment that these girls are choosing to depend on a guy because they read 50 Shades and watch the Bachelor.

As for everything else, I am around the same age as the young women (26) and I do have my own career. I did not jump into marriage and having children. I went to school and got some experience as a writer before settling down.I am grateful for the women before me who essentially rebelled against social stigma and the work force to get equality.

 

[jbcheerchick93]

I guess. But take the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. They are certainly memorable in a bad way. I'm an atheist, and when I think of Christians, I don't automatically think of WBC. I know they're a radical, fringe group, so I don't think that they are a representative of modern Christianity at all.

Also, I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 32, so an older teacher 15+ years ago that claimed to be feminist wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with current feminist ideals. She would be at least one if not two generations before mine.

You hit what I was attempting to say about my teacher right on the nose. She seems to think that she is starting the feminist movement on her own all over again. I don't think she represents current feminism at all, but radical feminists are what a majority of people who are college-aged (me & my friends/peers) think of when they hear feminism. Yes that is a generalization, but it's what has been true in my experience through school.

 

[Princess Dolly]

But many I the young women I am around read this stuff. Thy also watch the Bachelor, etc. They don't seem to jump into a career. I am supportive of choosing to stay home with your children. I just think you need to get an education, begin a career and then start a family. Otherwise you marry, have children and stay home with them. You are completely dependent on your dh and if seething goes wrong you have no experience to fall back on when you go back to work. Kwim. I do know bright hard working young women. But I seem to see many who don't realize how fortunate they are. If they want to run in he Olympics they can wear what they want not pants and a head covering.

But sometimes things happen in smaller steps. It's nearly a miracle that Tahmina Kohistani was even able to train AND go to the Olympics. She trained under threats everyday and yet she forged ahead. Sure she wore long sleeves, pants and a hijab, but still what a tremendous stride she took for Afghan women. You have to walk before you can run.

Sprinter sounds clarion call to Afghan women
Nick Mulvenney

Reuters

7:31 AM CDT, August 3, 2012

Advertisement


LONDON (Reuters) - Afghan Tahmina Kohistani was by some distance the slowest runner in the Olympic women's 100 meters preliminary round on Friday but it was a 14.42-second triumph given the obstacles she had overcome just to be in London.

The only woman athlete from her war-ravaged country to compete in the Olympics, Kohistani said she had encountered fierce opposition from conservatives in her home city of Kabul but called on other Afghan women to follow her lead.

"I faced a lot of challenges in my training for the London Olympics," the 23-year-old, who raced in a head scarf decorated with her national colors, told reporters.

"One day I was coming to the stadium and the taxi driver asked me where I was going. I said and 'I am training, I am going to London Olympics' and he said 'get out of the cab, I don't want to take you there'."

Kohistani was constantly harassed while training, she said, and her coach had to spend a lot of time fighting with a particular group of men who abused her at the stadium in Kabul.

"Whenever I train there's a lot of people who want to disturb me," she said. "They say 'just leave these things, it's not good for Afghan females to do these things'."

Kohistani's time was the slowest in the preliminary round, which is being run for the first time at the Olympics this year to weed out no-hopers before the heats.

Nearly four seconds slower than Florence Griffith-Joyner's world record of 10.49, it was nonetheless an improvement on Kohistani's personal best, which had stood at 15 seconds.

"I'm feeling good," she said. "I did my best to have a medal but I can't.

"I'm saying sorry to my people for my achievement but I think my best achievement is for me to represent Afghanistan as the only female athlete.

"I think that's more important than a gold medal."

Kohistani said she was aiming to return to the Olympics at the next Games in Rio in 2016 but was hoping not to be alone.

"I have a message for the women of Afghanistan," she said. "Come and join Tahmina because I need your support.

"We must be ready for the next Olympics, we should have more athletes in the next Olympics.

"I'm going to do my best to be in Brazil, I am going to give reason for other athletes to follow my way."

Noor Hussain Al-Malki, Qatar's first female Olympian, was the only athlete below Kohistani in the time sheets as she failed to finish the event having pulled up injured.

"If someone's injured then they are injured," said International Olympic Committee (IOC) spokesman Mark Adams. "She is here and she is competing. That is what matters."

Wojdan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim Shaherkani, a Saudi judoka, also made a brief but significant appearance at the London Games on Friday, the first woman from her nation to compete.

"I think we should be celebrating today because we had two athletes from two of three countries who had never sent women athletes to the Games," said IOC spokesman Mark Adams.

"It is a great message for those countries."

(Editing by Ed Osmond)



Copyright © 2012, Reuters

 

[MoonFaerie]

You hit what I was attempting to say about my teacher right on the nose. She seems to think that she is starting the feminist movement on her own all over again. I don't think she represents current feminism at all, but radical feminists are what a majority of people who are college-aged (me & my friends/peers) think of when they hear feminism. Yes that is a generalization, but it's what has been true in my experience through school.

Ok, but if you acknowledge that she doesn't modern feminism, why would you want to distance yourself from feminism because of your experiences with her? That's like saying I'm not going to eat bananas because they're not healthy for me because this one time someone gave me a fried banana.

 

[SaraJayne]

For those of you who are disappointed with how you were treated by many feminists when you chose to stay home rather than work outside the home, I really want you to know that modern-day feminism has evolved (for the most part) beyond that type of thinking. This wave of feminism that we're in right now has really taken root in the internet and there are thousands of blogs out there that discuss this type of issue. A lot of feminists that I know personally IRL and from elsewhere online would condemn and have condemned the notion of "You MUST work instead of stay at home." That's not to say that there aren't people who don't think that way anymore, but I don't think as many feminists today would condemn you for staying home.

I think today's feminism is more about making the choice that is right for you and your family.

 

[cornflake]

Ick, is it? Bella is just as bad if not worse.

Yes, 50 Shades was online Twilight fanfic that got picked up and published. Such is the state of literature in this country.

Yeah, Bella is horrifying. I'm perpetually perplexed by the sight of adult women fans WITH their young daughters. I can't imagine. I mean I'm not in favour of censorship but imo the only response to seeing a girl reading that mess is a long discussion of why Bella is an awful, useless suck. Also a discussion of how awful the writing is but...

Talk about anti-feminist, heh.

 

[laura.anne]

I think today's feminism is more about making the choice that is right for you and your family.

Exactly.

 

[MoonFaerie]

But sometimes things happen in smaller steps. It's nearly a miracle that Tahmina Kohistani was even able to train AND go to the Olympics. She trained under threats everyday and yet she forged ahead. Sure she wore long sleeves, pants and a hijab, but still what a tremendous stride she took for Afghan women. You have to walk before you can run.

Yup. As far as I could tell, other than the hijab, she was still wearing running clothes. Yes, they were long pants and sleeves, but they were still appropriate running attire. It's still a huge step. For the first time ever, every country competing has a woman there competing. That's huge.

 

[PollyannaMom]

No, I don't consider myself a feminist, for two reasons -

1) I am uncomfortable with extremism in any form, and I feel that somewhere along the line, feminism became not 'women are just as good as men", but "women are better than men". And I don't feel that perspective is any better than the one the original feminists fought against.

2) I think they fought for a choice (in voting, in career options, etc.) but that somewhere along the line it became a responsibility. I don't want the option to have a job beyond nurse, teacher, or secretary if that means I have to have a job beyond those areas. I'm quite happy in one of those professions, and part-time at that, because I believe my family runs better that way - but the feminists I know shake their heads at what I'm "wasting".

I fully admit I want the happy medium.

 

[Princess Dolly]

Yup. As far as I could tell, other than the hijab, she was still wearing running clothes. Yes, they were long pants and sleeves, but they were still appropriate running attire. It's still a huge step. For the first time ever, every country competing has a woman there competing. That's huge.

Indeed! And I think part of being a feminist is also trying to help our sisters in other countries who do not have the freedoms we do. We may not personally be able to go to these countries and make a difference but we can support the organizations that are doing this work in the other countries.

 

[Mkrop]

All anyone has to do is read on Facebook today how woman are attacking Ann Romney to understand why some women want nothing to do with feminism. She stayed home with 5 kids, and also dealt with two illnesses but she is being raked over the coals for it. And I dont care if the family has money that doesnt mean she is not raising her kids, just like the other group doesnt want someone else saying that daycare is raising their child.

 

[jbcheerchick93]

Ok, but if you acknowledge that she doesn't modern feminism, why would you want to distance yourself from feminism because of your experiences with her? That's like saying I'm not going to eat bananas because they're not healthy for me because this one time someone gave me a fried banana.

As I said in the post you quoted, I was answering the OP's question about why my generation doesn't want to be associated with the word feminism. I agree with a PP who said they are happy it's a non-issue that a girl can receive a scholarship to go to college for a sport, that is how I feel about feminism. Would I consider myself a feminist? Sure, based on what it actually means today. Would I outright call myself a feminist? Probably not, because I very generally don't agree with most of the self-titles feminists that I have encountered. Since the OP was about why young women don't want to be associated with it, I was attempting to answer that question based on my experiences. I'm sorry if there was some sort of misunderstanding.

FWIW, I am from a middle-class suburban area, I went to public high school, and I am going to a state university, in case it carries any weight.

 

[Princess Dolly]

All anyone has to do is read on Facebook today how woman are attacking Ann Romney to understand why some women want nothing to do with feminism. She stayed home with 5 kids, and also dealt with two illnesses but she is being raked over the coals for it. And I dont care if the family has money that doesnt mean she is not raising her kids, just like the other group doesnt want someone else saying that daycare is raising their child.

I didn't see that on Facebook today and I follow many feminist sites.

I did see this: http://www.aclu.org/blog/reproducti...r-get-out-school-forces-pregnancy-tests-girls

 

[Hrhpd]

I do not identify as a feminist because I believe that feminists are under the incorrect impression that men are somehow equal to me.

Look, I make more than my husband. I get up earlier and work longer hours. I do the majority of the housework. I cook our meals. I balance our checkbook. I keep track of the family's appointments and keep our calendar straight. I make sure cards go out regularly every birthday or holiday to all family members. I plan all our vacations. I grow an herb garden, manage our photo collection and decorate our home. During this particular time period in my development, I am also gestating a new human being. And doing all this I still look better than most men I know.

Am I militant against men? No, I love men. Men are great! Were polyandry legal I'd be on the warpath trying to convince my DH to agree to a second husband. I certainly feel confident that I could be a good provider to both.

I am not against feminism, and I thank women like my mom for working so hard at it. I just believe I have moved on from it. Feminism works off the base assumption that I (as a woman) need to work to get ahead of men. I'm sorry, but I laugh at the idea that a man could ever get in my way.

Love this! No man is ever going to stop me from being me. I don't answer to anyone but me. I make my own choices. I am truly blessed to have a marriage where both of us believe in 100% equal partnership. We both give and take and respect each other.

 

[MoonFaerie]

All anyone has to do is read on Facebook today how woman are attacking Ann Romney to understand why some women want nothing to do with feminism. She stayed home with 5 kids, and also dealt with two illnesses but she is being raked over the coals for it. And I dont care if the family has money that doesnt mean she is not raising her kids, just like the other group doesnt want someone else saying that daycare is raising their child.

Ok? I haven't seen any of that on FB, and I have a very feminist heavy group of friends.

I also haven't seen any of the Gabby Douglas hate about her hair that's apparently going around.

There is a lot of geeky talk about the Curiosity Mars rover though. Second would be back to school talk.