Modern Feminism

[chobie]

I'm a dude. I actually think it's both.

I think the "having it all" syndrome is largely female created and female sustained; however, i don't think we've gone far enough with workplace accommodation that is gender neutral or far enough with institutional enabling of gender preference. I'll give you some examples...

There should be no "maternity leave." There should be family leave, available to either gender for specifically designed reasons. If an employer is going to offer 3 months of paid maternity leave or has a short term disability policy that pays 60 percent of pay (and say employer makes up the other 40% for a generous paid leave" it should be available to men and women following the birth of a child.

Schools - public and private - do a terrible job of creating opportunity for involvement by both parents. It's unfair and it frankly really ticks me off. I hate how our school's version of a PTA is a female driven organization that is almost exclusionary of men in leadership positions. We are viewed as nothing more than stupid sloths who are only asked to move heavy things and carve pumpkins.

Men in the 40 and under generation typically are far more involved in traditionally female controlled aspects of family life - transport to activities, meal preparation, domestics, shopping, etc. Men today are far more likely to be involved in our children's homework and education than our own fathers were. Our workplaces don't accommodate this very well.

Our wives don't either.

Men don't need time off to physically recover from birth, so no, that part shouldn't be gender neutral until men can take on 50% of the pregnancy and childbirth.

 

[MoonFaerie]

The thing that stands out to me the most is little things I do that my DH has never had to think about.

Don't stop for gas after dark.
Make sure your clothes aren't too "****ty"
Have your keys out and in your hand when walking to your car, bonus points for a cell phone in the other hand
Lock your doors as soon as your get in the car
Never let your drink out of your sight
For that matter, never drink
Etc

If you do everything right, you still have a very high chance of being a sexual assault victim. The more things you do right, the fewer people lining up to blame you. Date/acquaintance rape is way too common, and the boys will be boys attitude is still firmly entrenched. (I seriously had a professor express that exact attitude. She was a marriage counselor, and it was a marriage and family studies elective. When I approached her about it, she dismissed me with some garbage about how there isn't time for all the viewpoints. )

When women are victims of domestic assault, the public is much gentler on the man. The woman is far too often judged and raked over the coals for staying with her abuser. Never mind the fact that our society doesn't do nearly enough in the way of providing resources and legal recourse for the woman. There's the attitude of she got herself into the mess, so why should we help her out of it.

These assaults against women are extremely under-reported. I know I didn't report mine. I was young, and I wasn't up for the scrutiny of everything I might have done wrong to deserve it. Even when they are reported, very few get any jail time, and it's often a short sentence. A marijuana charge can get you a longer sentence than a rape charge.

 

[luvmy3]

I'm an equalist.

 

[superme80]

Nope not a feminist.

 

[Robinrs]

I didn't read most of the posts but I'll add my response.

I'm a dyed in the wool feminist~~ and about the only one I know!!

I believe it's important to be PRO whatever you are, it's a sign of pride and security. I'm extreme everything, I've never been a middle of the road type, ever.

SO I'm pro WOMAN, pro SHORT, pro LOUD... you name it, I'm PRO ME~

 

[Alsobrook]

Men don't need time off to physically recover from birth, so no, that part shouldn't be gender neutral until men can take on 50% of the pregnancy and childbirth.

I disagree. Of course there is a medical leave need for women following childbirth. Not 12 weeks in most cases.

I'm well versed in FMLA, and that's not really what I'm talking about (as referenced by another poster above). It's a mentality. Men don't get leave from most employers following the birth of a child. It's frowned upon. It shouldn't be.

 

[Alsobrook]

Maybe your wife doesn't accommodate your involvement, but plenty of us do. DH has attended more field trips than me. We both attend a fairly even number of basketball games and track meets. I do deal with more of the practices, but that's because we structured our life that way on purpose. I'm so close to finally graduating. DH works nights, so he's available to help with kid stuff during the day, and I'm available at night. We both do Dr appointments, and I have zero concerns leaving him in charge when I go away from a girls weekend. DH is trying to crash our Feb girls weekend. I did put my foot down and say 1) he HAS to run the half marathon with us and 2) it's his problem to work out childcare for the 5 days. IMO, that's fair, and I'd be absolutely fine with the reverse.

Oh my wife not only accommodates, she expects. I'm very much with the program. That still doesn't stop her from heaping pressure on herself to be the all everything to everybody at all times.

 

[MoonFaerie]

Oh my wife not only accommodates, she expects. I'm very much with the program. That still doesn't stop her from heaping pressure on herself to be the all everything to everybody at all times.

You know, I'm that way, but I never attributed it to my being female. I've always attributed it to being a Type A first born. I actually am happier and keep up with things better when I am juggling a ton of stuff. When I have a lot of down time, I get lazy and don't have any motivation to stay on top of everything. It's much easier to slack when I know I have the time to catch up.

 

[Handbag Lady]

I disagree. Of course there is a medical leave need for women following childbirth. Not 12 weeks in most cases.

I'm well versed in FMLA, and that's not really what I'm talking about (as referenced by another poster above). It's a mentality. Men don't get leave from most employers following the birth of a child. It's frowned upon. It shouldn't be.

They do at my work. Even so, there are so many married people at my company that for each birth, the parents can split maternity leave so that each parent gets bonding time. I think it is pretty cool. (I'd like to look it up to see if it is per child or per birth; if twins, what happens?)

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Here's what I don't get. There are all these women who are happy that they have a recourse if their boss pats them on the fanny at work, but deride feminism. Women everywhere would screech like banshees if they suddenly had no rights to their own money and their husbands could do whatever they wanted with it, but they don't want to be called feminists. They are proud their daughters got athletic scholarships, but think feminists are sweaty women who don't shave. They want access to birth control (pay or no pay - don't derail the issue) but don't want anyone to apply the "F" label to them. They vote for other women in elections, but think all feminists are extremists wackjobs.

There are so many women who are so glad to take the fruits of the feminist movement's labor, but then turn around and deride it.

If you truly don't like feminism, don't vote, let your husband control all the purse strings, don't play sports and don't let your daughters go to college. If you somehow forced to work, don't compare your salary to the men's, and it's certainly okay if the men leer at you. If you get raped, unless you were wearing your hose and girdle and panties and were stone cold sober on your way home from church, well, you must have been dressed suggestively or tipsy or been somewhere you shouldn't have been, so don't go to the police.

Jehosaphat! I think sometimes we need to have a women's oral history day where women in their 60's on up sit down one day a year and young women the truth about what it was like to be a woman when they were young women. Heck, go watch about 5 episodes of Mad Men. I know a woman who was working in an office in the 1960's and she can't stand the show - she says it's too accurate and brings back bad memories of some of her bosses and the things she endured.

Hellzapoppin. I can tell you about my own DMIL. When she waitressed in the late 1930's, she wouldn't take a job in a diner unless the owner had a gun behind the counter and escorted his waitresses home - there were too many men who thought that because a woman worked in a diner he could rape her, and too often, the law officials agreed with him!

But feminism, which brought about changes that let women be waitresses and feel safe, that's a bad word?

 

[ladypage]

The thing that stands out to me the most is little things I do that my DH has never had to think about.

Don't stop for gas after dark.
Make sure your clothes aren't too "****ty"
Have your keys out and in your hand when walking to your car, bonus points for a cell phone in the other hand
Lock your doors as soon as your get in the car
Never let your drink out of your sight
For that matter, never drink
Etc

If you do everything right, you still have a very high chance of being a sexual assault victim. The more things you do right, the fewer people lining up to blame you. Date/acquaintance rape is way too common, and the boys will be boys attitude is still firmly entrenched. (I seriously had a professor express that exact attitude. She was a marriage counselor, and it was a marriage and family studies elective. When I approached her about it, she dismissed me with some garbage about how there isn't time for all the viewpoints. )

When women are victims of domestic assault, the public is much gentler on the man. The woman is far too often judged and raked over the coals for staying with her abuser. Never mind the fact that our society doesn't do nearly enough in the way of providing resources and legal recourse for the woman. There's the attitude of she got herself into the mess, so why should we help her out of it.

These assaults against women are extremely under-reported. I know I didn't report mine. I was young, and I wasn't up for the scrutiny of everything I might have done wrong to deserve it. Even when they are reported, very few get any jail time, and it's often a short sentence. A marijuana charge can get you a longer sentence than a rape charge.

You know, I do have something to say about that. My mother worked for social services for a long time, and my family is full of cops. We have all sadly seen out share of domestic abuse and rape cases, but we also know the other side of it. These cases DO happen to men, a lot more often than is reported, and even those who report it are often told sorry, can't do anything. My brother was involved in a relationship where there was a LOT of domestic abuse. But it was never him hitting her. She would beat him mercilessly, stabbed him once, and constantly threw heavy things (plates, bowls, etc.) at him. We finally called the cops on her, and we were told "good luck." The cop tried, but there wasn't much chance of getting anything done. The second time we had to call, they arrested her, but let her loose within 24 hours. Because it was a guy being beaten, there wasn't much recourse. How is that equal?

 

[BlovesC]

I think it's a shame that 'feminism' is still considered a dirty word by some women simply because the men in power who wanted to maintain absolute control launched a negative PR campaign against the word.

I don't know any woman who doesn't believe in equality, or who doesn't reap the benefits of liberties hard-fought and won by other feminists, so why on earth are we still finding this word so frightening in 2012?

 

[Pooh Girl 71]

I am a feminist. I'm not ashamed to admit that. My vote will ALWAYS be based on women having a right to choice. That is the bottom line for me. I will be 41 years old this year. I remember vividly hearing about the equal rights movement in the 70's. I have been blessed that I have grown up in an age that I have the opportunity to do what I choose to do because so many blazed the trail for me. I feel that many young girls have NO idea what women went through in the past and the pendulum is swinging back in that direction :-( I often wonder if one has to struggle and fight in order to truly appreciate something?

As for Fifty Shades, I have three friends who told me the books would just make me mad. If you want to read good erotica, read Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty trilogy.

 

[Robinrs]

I think it's a shame that 'feminism' is still considered a dirty word by some women simply because the men in power who wanted to maintain absolute control launched a negative PR campaign against the word.

I don't know any woman who doesn't believe in equality, or who doesn't reap the benefits of liberties hard-fought and won by other feminists, so why on earth are we still finding this word so frightening in 2012?

Because some women were trained to give up their power and live to be under power. It's taught very early in life. Some women thrive over having someone else in power. I'd rather die.

Society subtly trains groups of people to feel inferior to keep those IN power there. It takes a will to fight the power. It's something I've done ALL of my life.

 

[ladypage]

I think it's a shame that 'feminism' is still considered a dirty word by some women simply because the men in power who wanted to maintain absolute control launched a negative PR campaign against the word.

I don't know any woman who doesn't believe in equality, or who doesn't reap the benefits of liberties hard-fought and won by other feminists, so why on earth are we still finding this word so frightening in 2012?

Because some women were trained to give up their power and live to be under power. It's taught very early in life. Some women thrive over having someone else in power. I'd rather die.

Society subtly trains groups of people to feel inferior to keep those IN power there. It takes a will to fight the power. It's something I've done ALL of my life.

So because we disagree with you, it's because we were "trained" to give up our power? Uhm, nope, sorry. I completely disagree. I rarely label myself as a feminist, I see myself as an equalist. Feminism does have a negative connotation with it, because personally, I've encountered more radicals than normal people who label themselves so. These women have told me that when I was considering nursing as a career, that I was doing an "injustice to my sex" by not becoming a doctor. These women also over heard me mention that eventually I would like to be a SAHM for a year or two, and said I was weakening what they fought for. So no, I do not want to use their name of feminist. I want to use equality, because that's what matters. The fight isn't over, but the feminist movement has changed in to something I don't like, so I choose not associate with it. This doesn't discredit or mean I'm ignoring the past at all, just that I disagree with the current take on it.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm a feminist and proud of it. Not all feminists are radical and fit the stereotypes out there.

I believe that every woman should have the right to choose what she wants to do and should have the opportunity to follow her dreams. It doesn't matter to me whether she wants to be an astronaut, a doctor, a nurse, a scientist, a homemaker - it's all good because it's what she wants. We're getting there.

She should also be safe from being victimized and should be as fully respected as male members of society. Those will still take a lot of work in some cases.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I am a feminist. I'm not ashamed to admit that. My vote will ALWAYS be based on women having a right to choice. That is the bottom line for me. I will be 41 years old this year. I remember vividly hearing about the equal rights movement in the 70's. I have been blessed that I have grown up in an age that I have the opportunity to do what I choose to do because so many blazed the trail for me. I feel that many young girls have NO idea what women went through in the past and the pendulum is swinging back in that direction :-( I often wonder if one has to struggle and fight in order to truly appreciate something?

Funny thing about that equal rights movement, and more to the point, the Equal Rights Amendment (to the Constitution). Forty years after being passed by Congress, it STILL hasn't been ratified by the requisite 38 states.

Those of you who didn't/don't like, or don't think we need, feminism - because, for example, you have a job where you manage and/or outearn men; or you have the choice to stay home instead of work? Great. But there's no Constitutional amendment mandating it.

 

[shortbun]

The first PAGE of this thread just made me think, "WOW!" Heck yeah, I'm a feminist!!!! And a humanist!!! And I NEVER told any man NOT to respect me.
I demanded and earned the respect of all men who know me. No man defines me. No woman defines me except myself. I am strong. I am woman. I expect no less of my friends, male and female-to be individuals, strong and independent as they make complete contributions to their lives and society.

 

[leebee]

Here's what I don't get. There are all these women who are happy that they have a recourse if their boss pats them on the fanny at work, but deride feminism. Women everywhere would screech like banshees if they suddenly had no rights to their own money and their husbands could do whatever they wanted with it, but they don't want to be called feminists. They are proud their daughters got athletic scholarships, but think feminists are sweaty women who don't shave. They want access to birth control (pay or no pay - don't derail the issue) but don't want anyone to apply the "F" label to them. They vote for other women in elections, but think all feminists are extremists wackjobs.

There are so many women who are so glad to take the fruits of the feminist movement's labor, but then turn around and deride it.

If you truly don't like feminism, don't vote, let your husband control all the purse strings, don't play sports and don't let your daughters go to college. If you somehow forced to work, don't compare your salary to the men's, and it's certainly okay if the men leer at you. If you get raped, unless you were wearing your hose and girdle and panties and were stone cold sober on your way home from church, well, you must have been dressed suggestively or tipsy or been somewhere you shouldn't have been, so don't go to the police.

Jehosaphat! I think sometimes we need to have a women's oral history day where women in their 60's on up sit down one day a year and young women the truth about what it was like to be a woman when they were young women. Heck, go watch about 5 episodes of Mad Men. I know a woman who was working in an office in the 1960's and she can't stand the show - she says it's too accurate and brings back bad memories of some of her bosses and the things she endured.

Hellzapoppin. I can tell you about my own DMIL. When she waitressed in the late 1930's, she wouldn't take a job in a diner unless the owner had a gun behind the counter and escorted his waitresses home - there were too many men who thought that because a woman worked in a diner he could rape her, and too often, the law officials agreed with him!

But feminism, which brought about changes that let women be waitresses and feel safe, that's a bad word?

I'll come talk at your women's oral history day and remind everyone how cold it is in the northeast in the middle of winter, especially when you have to stand outside waiting for the bus in a skirt and socks, because girls weren't allowed to wear pants to school. Boys could be warm and bundled up, but girls had to wear skirts, socks, and a dress coat- no winter jackets or pants, those are boy clothes.

I guess, in a way, the feminist movement has been highly successful... look at the number of posters who never seem to think about being able to vote, get a job they like, play sports, have their own money, pay the bills, wear jeans to school; they do it because they can, without really considering that there was a time when these things would NOT have been an option for them because they are female. For many women, thinking that they can be told what to do is anathema; for some of us "more mature" women, we didn't do these things because it was a way of life: Men did one thing, women another, and there was simply no thought or question about doing things differently; it was simply the way things were. I think it's sad that so many women today react to the stereotype of the word "feminist" without stopping to think about what the feminist movement accomplished and how they are currently reaping the benefits of having women who were willing to kick society in the teeth and demand better for themselves and their children.

ETA: YES, I am a feminist!!

 

[cornflake]

Remember the speech Rodham gave during the 2008 primaries? She gestured to her mother, standing beside her, and said that when her mother was born, women were not legally permitted to vote. There her mother stood, watching her daughter campaign for the office of President of the United States.

And yet... women still make around $.82 on the dollar.

We still have not passed the Equal Rights Amendment.

The population is roughly 51% female. The makeup of the Senate is 17% female, a record (and seven of those were appointed to replace their dead husbands).

In the 225 or so year history of the Supreme Court, there have been four female justices, three of whom currently serve.

A total of 12 of the Fortune 500 companies are run by female CEOs.

Etc.

Any one person may have no issues, or be in charge of 50 men and etc. However, that doesn't mean it's actually possible for anyone, or that everyone is on equal footing because someone can achieve something. The idea that the need for people to discuss this or be strident about it is over, or that inequality is in the past, seems... optimistic.