Modern Feminism

[MoonFaerie]

I didn't see that on Facebook today and I follow many feminist sites.

I did see this: http://www.aclu.org/blog/reproducti...r-get-out-school-forces-pregnancy-tests-girls

I hadn't seen that yet. Um, this is why we still need feminism folks. Notice how they're not kicking out the males. Last time I checked, us lady-folk need a male to get pregnant.

 

[Princess Dolly]

Ok? I haven't seen any of that on FB, and I have a very feminist heavy group of friends.

I also haven't seen any of the Gabby Douglas hate about her hair that's apparently going around.

There is a lot of geeky talk about the Curiosity Mars rover though. Second would be back to school talk.

Sounds like I hang in a similar group, except I need to add in third and that is continuing to oogle male swimmers. Too bad swimming is over at the Olympics.

I hadn't seen that yet. Um, this is why we still need feminism folks. Notice how they're not kicking out the males. Last time I checked, us lady-folk need a male to get pregnant.

Exactly.

 

[chobie]

I'm a feminist!

Lots of women are feminists, they just don't/won't call themselves that.

Yep, I agree. I have no problem with the term AND I stayed home with my kids when they were young.

I would like to know which rights women who decry feminism would be willing to give up?

There is not one feminist ideology, feminism merely means that women have the same rights and opportunities as men. How can anyone be against that?

The great thing about feminism is because of it women can still choose to be SAHMS, not go into traditionally "male" professions, be submissive to their husbands, etc, they just don't have to if they don't want to.

 

[Colleen27]

Yes, 50 Shades was online Twilight fanfic that got picked up and published. Such is the state of literature in this country.

Yeah, Bella is horrifying. I'm perpetually perplexed by the sight of adult women fans WITH their young daughters. I can't imagine. I mean I'm not in favour of censorship but imo the only response to seeing a girl reading that mess is a long discussion of why Bella is an awful, useless suck. Also a discussion of how awful the writing is but...

Talk about anti-feminist, heh.

I was very relieved when my daughter got about 3 chapters in to Twilight and set it aside in disgust. I read the whole series because seeing how popular it has been with my DD's friends I figured I needed to be prepared to discuss it with her. I was really floored - between the writing, which makes Harlequin romances look like great literature, and the complete and utter mess of a main character I really don't get the popularity. And I can't for the life of me understand why parents around me seem to think Bella, who is perhaps the most dysfunctional, needy, spineless heroine in all of young adult fiction, is a good role model just because she didn't have sex before marriage... Talk about skewed priorities!

 

[SaraJayne]

All anyone has to do is read on Facebook today how woman are attacking Ann Romney to understand why some women want nothing to do with feminism. She stayed home with 5 kids, and also dealt with two illnesses but she is being raked over the coals for it. And I dont care if the family has money that doesnt mean she is not raising her kids, just like the other group doesnt want someone else saying that daycare is raising their child.

I haven't seen any of that on Facebook today.

 

[Tiggeroo]

But sometimes things happen in smaller steps. It's nearly a miracle that Tahmina Kohistani was even able to train AND go to the Olympics. She trained under threats everyday and yet she forged ahead. Sure she wore long sleeves, pants and a hijab, but still what a tremendous stride she took for Afghan women. You have to walk before you can run.

I agree. I think it's wonderful she is there. I just wish young women could realize how fortunate they have it, simply in where they were born.
I get that Twilight is just a story. I see that it may not mean anything that a young woman reads this. Clearly I'm a sucker for what's popular as I'm reading through 50 Shades. But what concerns me is a trend. When the most popular musicians are not good roll models, when the most popular fiction features a weak main female character (and is written by a woman) and when the most popular tv shows are reality programs where women are seeking happiness through a man it bothers me. This stuff is popular. I think that says something about society in general. We all need escapism and a little bit of it never hurt anybody.

 

[Alsobrook]

Absent from all of the conversation is a serious discussion of the changing role of men.

That bothers me.

 

[skater]

I used to call myself a feminist - even marched with NOW. I still consider myself a feminist but not as its defined by NOW. I'm a conservative, and they've solidly aligned themselves with liberals. One of their listed important issues is "Fighting the Right." How can I get behind that. If this is feminism, it doesn't define me.

Feminism to me is about choices for women. Equal pay. Fighting sexual abuse (and I'm glad that NOW is on board with that). Supporting women who decide to be SAHM's. Fighting sex trafficking. Giving pregnant girls real choices - not just one (I've seen first hand how it can work, and its not a choice). Supporting rape victims.

But if I can't be a conservative and a feminist then, I guess I'm a conservative first. Conservatism does not equal being against women as NOW seems to believe. At least that's my opinion - its okay if you disagree.

So, in my heart I'm a feminist, but I am cautious in applying that term to myself because of how its defined today.

 

[Colleen27]

Absent from all of the conversation is a serious discussion of the changing role of men.

That bothers me.

Good point. That's a big reason the "feminist dream" of having it all has been so stressful for so many women... Because as our role in society changed, the role of men remained largely unchanged. So now women can do more than ever in the workplace, but are still doing more than their partners at home. That's a recipe for discontent, frustration, and anger, and I think that's one of the "last frontiers" of feminism in our society - equality on the homefront to balance out the equality in the workplace.

 

[chobie]

No offense
In a nutshell the second part of that sentence. They lost all respect for themselves when they told men not to respect them. I know it's not a popular opinion, but there you have it. My opinion has nothing to do with the world, workforce, politics or anything like that. I am talking strictly about the relationship (generic) between men and women.

I still don't understand what you mean by women "telling men not to respect them in relationships?"

 

[Tiggeroo]

Good point. That's a big reason the "feminist dream" of having it all has been so stressful for so many women... Because as our role in society changed, the role of men remained largely unchanged. So now women can do more than ever in the workplace, but are still doing more than their partners at home. That's a recipe for discontent, frustration, and anger, and I think that's one of the "last frontiers" of feminism in our society - equality on the homefront to balance out the equality in the workplace.

ITA. It is in how you raise your sons and I would guess an unwillingness to bear too much of the burden. I would guess it's partly because most women think nobody can do it as well as they can.

 

[skater]

Good point. That's a big reason the "feminist dream" of having it all has been so stressful for so many women... Because as our role in society changed, the role of men remained largely unchanged. So now women can do more than ever in the workplace, but are still doing more than their partners at home. That's a recipe for discontent, frustration, and anger, and I think that's one of the "last frontiers" of feminism in our society - equality on the homefront to balance out the equality in the workplace.

Some good points here.

 

[chobie]

Good point. That's a big reason the "feminist dream" of having it all has been so stressful for so many women... Because as our role in society changed, the role of men remained largely unchanged. So now women can do more than ever in the workplace, but are still doing more than their partners at home. That's a recipe for discontent, frustration, and anger, and I think that's one of the "last frontiers" of feminism in our society - equality on the homefront to balance out the equality in the workplace.

Yes, but that is not going to come through legislation, that can only come from women refusing to let men not do their share. This is a problem caused by individual women, not feminism. I think much of the dislike by women for feminism is because they blame feminism for making them have to earn a paycheck rather than blaming the men in their lives for not doing their fair share around the house.

 

[Mkrop]

Ok? I haven't seen any of that on FB, and I have a very feminist heavy group of friends.

I also haven't seen any of the Gabby Douglas hate about her hair that's apparently going around.

There is a lot of geeky talk about the Curiosity Mars rover though. Second would be back to school talk.

I am going to apologize, I just looked further and supposedly this is an old article but on FB feed, many of my friends are liking things about it for and against, I guess they are slower than the rest of the country. It happened in April when Hilary Rosen made these comments but both the President and Mrs O refuted them. I should have looked at it more before I posted but the point still remains the same even if my stuff is dated!

And the Gabby Douglas hair thing is on my MSN homepage but it doesnt say what negative things that were said.

 

[lovemygoofy]

This is my humble opinion. Women are each others worst enemy.

We judge each other regarding everything from clothing, hairstyle, number of children, working, staying at home, and cleanliness of home.

Men don't do this to each other. I've never heard my husband say "damn his shirt is ugly" or "Bob just thinks he can do everything and we all know he has help." Men just don't go there and could care less about that sort of stuff.

Women are engrained to want to do everything and be perfection while doing it. If the women stays at home, we question why isn't she working?

If there are successful business women/moms in the world, then we are catty about all the help she has.

We put these expectations upon ourselves because we want everyone(i.e. other women) else to think how great we are and do and look. Look at the popular reality shows. It makes us feel better to know we don't act or look or say things like the crazy women on tv. It doesn't make us any better because watching it just encourages more trash.

Feminism really will never be successful until women can get over themselves and just focus on their own lives and accept the others as they come.

 

[Handbag Lady]

It is funny, but I don't consider myself a feminist at all.

I have a full time job, make a decent wage, I boss a lot of men around all day, I am highly respective in my career and my husband does the dusting. He has a great job too, it is just that I am far from domestic.

To me, feminists are the women that refuse to shave their armpits, don't bathe, hate men, and love their periods. (Okay, I was raised in the late 60's-early 70's.)

I'm not that.

However, I am so grateful that I can have a job, that I can choose to get pregnant or not, and that I am not repressed. The wage thing needs to worked on a bit as there is a LOT of that going around my industry.

I think we just need another word.

 

[MoonFaerie]

It is funny, but I don't consider myself a feminist at all.

I have a full time job, make a decent wage, I boss a lot of men around all day, I am highly respective in my career and my husband does the dusting. He has a great job too, it is just that I am far from domestic.

To me, feminists are the women that refuse to shave their armpits, don't bathe, hate men, and love their periods. (Okay, I was raised in the late 60's-early 70's.)

I'm not that.

However, I am so grateful that I can have a job, that I can choose to get pregnant or not, and that I am not repressed. The wage thing needs to worked on a bit as there is a LOT of that going around my industry.

I think we just need another word.

Me either. Well I don't shave my armpits anymore. I tried everything I could think of and still get horrid razor burn. So waxing it is.

If I could get rid of all my hair, I'd happily do so. I have grown out my hair again, but it's in a ponytail 98% of the time. I hate the feel of hair on my face or neck.

 

[Alsobrook]

Yes, but that is not going to come through legislation, that can only come from women refusing to let men not do their share. This is a problem caused by individual women, not feminism. I think much of the dislike by women for feminism is because they blame feminism for making them have to earn a paycheck rather than blaming the men in their lives for not doing their fair share around the house.

I'm a dude. I actually think it's both.

I think the "having it all" syndrome is largely female created and female sustained; however, i don't think we've gone far enough with workplace accommodation that is gender neutral or far enough with institutional enabling of gender preference. I'll give you some examples...

There should be no "maternity leave." There should be family leave, available to either gender for specifically designed reasons. If an employer is going to offer 3 months of paid maternity leave or has a short term disability policy that pays 60 percent of pay (and say employer makes up the other 40% for a generous paid leave" it should be available to men and women following the birth of a child.

Schools - public and private - do a terrible job of creating opportunity for involvement by both parents. It's unfair and it frankly really ticks me off. I hate how our school's version of a PTA is a female driven organization that is almost exclusionary of men in leadership positions. We are viewed as nothing more than stupid sloths who are only asked to move heavy things and carve pumpkins.

Men in the 40 and under generation typically are far more involved in traditionally female controlled aspects of family life - transport to activities, meal preparation, domestics, shopping, etc. Men today are far more likely to be involved in our children's homework and education than our own fathers were. Our workplaces don't accommodate this very well.

Our wives don't either.

 

[MoonFaerie]

I'm a dude. I actually think it's both.

I think the "having it all" syndrome is largely female created and female sustained; however, i don't think we've gone far enough with workplace accommodation that is gender neutral or far enough with institutional enabling of gender preference. I'll give you some examples...

There should be no "maternity leave." There should be family leave, available to either gender for specifically designed reasons. If an employer is going to offer 3 months of paid maternity leave or has a short term disability policy that pays 60 percent of pay (and say employer makes up the other 40% for a generous paid leave" it should be available to men and women following the birth of a child.

Schools - public and private - do a terrible job of creating opportunity for involvement by both parents. It's unfair and it frankly really ticks me off. I hate how our school's version of a PTA is a female driven organization that is almost exclusionary of men in leadership positions. We are viewed as nothing more than stupid sloths who are only asked to move heavy things and carve pumpkins.

Men in the 40 and under generation typically are far more involved in traditionally female controlled aspects of family life - transport to activities, meal preparation, domestics, shopping, etc. Men today are far more likely to be involved in our children's homework and education than our own fathers were. Our workplaces don't accommodate this very well.

Our wives don't either.

It is family leave. The catch is that many employers don't have to offer the leave per the FMLA restrictions, AND the 12 weeks might have to be shared between both parents, leaving only 6 weeks each. Depending on birth complications, the mother might not physically be able to return to work after only 6 weeks, which would leave less (or no) time for the father.

I can't say anything about our PTA (I avoid that stuff; while I do have a group of parent friends at the school, most don't let me in to their clique. I'm not "normal" enough, what with my pink/purple hair and nose piercing and tattoo), but I see a lot of involved parents at my kids school. My DH helped with reading groups once a week last year. On field trips, there's been a pretty even mix of men and women.

Maybe your wife doesn't accommodate your involvement, but plenty of us do. DH has attended more field trips than me. We both attend a fairly even number of basketball games and track meets. I do deal with more of the practices, but that's because we structured our life that way on purpose. I'm so close to finally graduating. DH works nights, so he's available to help with kid stuff during the day, and I'm available at night. We both do Dr appointments, and I have zero concerns leaving him in charge when I go away from a girls weekend. DH is trying to crash our Feb girls weekend. I did put my foot down and say 1) he HAS to run the half marathon with us and 2) it's his problem to work out childcare for the 5 days. IMO, that's fair, and I'd be absolutely fine with the reverse.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

It is funny, but I don't consider myself a feminist at all.

I have a full time job, make a decent wage, I boss a lot of men around all day, I am highly respective in my career and my husband does the dusting. He has a great job too, it is just that I am far from domestic.

To me, feminists are the women that refuse to shave their armpits, don't bathe, hate men, and love their periods. (Okay, I was raised in the late 60's-early 70's.)

I'm not that.

However, I am so grateful that I can have a job, that I can choose to get pregnant or not, and that I am not repressed. The wage thing needs to worked on a bit as there is a LOT of that going around my industry.

I think we just need another word.

You made some great points here. I agree with what you say.

I have a also have a full-time job...granted it is in a predominately female profession, and the pay issue is set forth by the Board of Education. It makes no distinction for gender (only education and experience) which is how it should be.

I guess if wanting equal pay, being able to vote and doing what I want makes me a feminist? Maybe I am guilty. However, I just call that being a person.

To me a feminist is somebody who wants to burn bras and be all hairy